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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jammerlich on June 19, 2007, at 14:10:49
A couple of weeks ago, my T said something about having a hard time reading me. As we talked about it, I mentioned that I thought I probably had just as hard a time reading her. Her response was that if I ever want to know what she was thinking, all I have to do is ask.
Today, I was having a hard time talking and said I thought a lot of it was because the stuff that's been going on lately is little stuff with my parents...just them being who they are....things I talk about all the time. She said she didn't really think that's why I was having trouble. And I asked her what she thought it was. She said, "I guess I could turn that back on you. We've talked about it a little before, I think."
So, all I have to do is ask, huh? Interesting.
I didn't say anything. It felt awful, though. After a couple of minutes, she asked if it felt unfair for her to do that. All I could do was shake my head. Doesn't leave me feeling terribly inclined to ask any more questions.
Would you guys mention a contradiction like this to your T? Or just let it go?
Posted by scratchpad on June 19, 2007, at 14:56:42
In reply to Would you say something?, posted by jammerlich on June 19, 2007, at 14:10:49
>
> Would you guys mention a contradiction like this to your T? Or just let it go?
I think I would have to be terribly brave and say something along the lines of... "this isn't going as I hoped it would," or "what on earth are you talking about?"I get awfully upset when questions are just turned around on me, instead of answered in a straightforward manner. (But that's the way of me and my T. We don't play badminton with thoughts. More like tennis. Bam! In your court. Bam! Back at you. But not confrontational. She's very gentle and uses humour which helps. It's a style thing, I think.)
I just get bristly when a question is answered with a question.
Scratchpad
Posted by muffled on June 19, 2007, at 14:58:12
In reply to Would you say something?, posted by jammerlich on June 19, 2007, at 14:10:49
Sorry it feels bad Jammer, but really, think of it as a lovely meaty bone to take back to t, and then you guys can chew on it together and bond over it.
Really.
Kinda a dumb metaphore I guess.
But seriously, your t sounds OK. Sounds like she's willing to go for it. And you seem determined. Just takes time.
My T said that today, bout how sometimes things seem to go so slow. But they going...
So all this talk, circular though it may seem, is proly a good thing. Thats how our T's get to actually know us, and be able to help us help ourselves.
You remind me of myself many times.
Take care Jammer, and try not to worry bout it. mebbe think of it as a challenge.
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 17:09:08
In reply to Would you say something?, posted by jammerlich on June 19, 2007, at 14:10:49
Of course I'd mention it. :)
Really, it's the only way to sort things like that out. It doesn't have to be confrontational. More like, the other day you said this, but now you're saying the other, and I don't quite understand how they mesh.
Sometimes I find out that he didn't mean something the way I heard it. And sometimes I find out he hasn't really thought it out very well and is spouting different techniques at different times.
So one way I clear up a misunderstanding, and the other way he gets to really think about what he's saying. So it works out. And since he considers that a particular gift of mine, I don't guess he minds.
Posted by jammerlich on June 19, 2007, at 19:59:15
In reply to Re: Would you say something? » jammerlich, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2007, at 17:09:08
I tried to call my T this afternoon, but she'd already left for the day. The secretary asked if I wanted her paged or if I could wait until tomorrow. I said I could wait. I think I should have asked that she be paged. I feel awfully upset.
Can you guys help me decide what to say when she calls back?
As far as the "all you have to do is ask" thing, it damages my ability to trust her. I've asked her exactly 2 questions since she said that and she's turned them both back to me. The first one was when I thought she'd given me an ultimatum. When I asked about it, he first response was, "Why do you think I might say something like that?" She wouldn't answer until I told her I'd really rather her just tell me.
Does she not understand that in gaining my trust, little things like that are really important? It's not like I know her as a whole person. I only see little slivers, so what I see really matters. Or is it unreasonable for me to feel that way? Sometimes I'm not sure.
Other stuff that felt really bad happened today, too, and I think it needs to be discussed as well. I had a very difficult time getting started today. She asked what I wanted to do with our time together today. I couldn't answer. She asked a little about my time with my parents over the weekend, but still, I couldn't talk. I didn't know what to say. She asked what she could do to help me. I told her I wished I knew.
And we just sat there in silence. So uncomfortable. Finally, I told her I was sorry. She said there was no reason to apologize, but then added that she felt like she kept dropping bait and I wasn't biting and it had her feeling like she was doing all the work....work that is really mine to do. Well, that left me feeling even more like I needed to apologize.
I just feel terrible about the session today. On the one hand, she wanted to know what she could do to help; yet on the other she already felt like she was doing too much? I don't understand that. And if it was easy for me to just speak up and say what's on my mind, I probably wouldn't need to be in therapy. What exactly is her role?
I feel like she's been pushing and challenging so much lately....more than I can tolerate. I know that's an important part of therapy, but doesn't there need to be a strong foundation/relationship in place before that can happen? Maybe she thinks not. Or maybe she thinks it's already there (and I assure you, it isn't). As things are, I just feel pushed away and I want to run. The rest of my life just isn't settled enough to have T be much other than a warm place.
I'm wondering if maybe I need to go ahead and call her service to have her paged tonight. I'm having a really terrible time. She just doesn't seem as warm as she used to be and I hate to call her after hours. Maybe that's not really OK.
Posted by red house on June 20, 2007, at 8:13:33
In reply to Help!!! I've called and more about today, posted by jammerlich on June 19, 2007, at 19:59:15
well, even though i am new, i thought i would jump in here because it seems like you are out on a bit of a limb. i know the feeling. i hope you were able to talk with your T last night or at least that you feel better this morning and will have a chance to talk with her today.
i have found that some Ts are more open to answering questions than others; i had one T who did a similar thing to yours -- she said i could ask but then would only turn it back on me as if she wanted me to ask just so she could analyze my motivations, the reasons why i asked. my current T is much more open about answering questions i ask directly. that said, there have been a couple of times that she wouldn't but at least she spent time both explaining to me why she wasn't sure it would be helpful and hearing about how hurt i felt to have her not answer. i think that's a reasonable thing to ask for from your T, that even if she won't answer that she can explain why and then also hear you out and your need to talk about how it hurts. it sounds like yours isn't really acknowledging that it feels bad to you that she's dodging questions.
i hope you are feeling better today...
redhouse
Posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 10:00:52
In reply to Re: Help!!! I've called and more about today » jammerlich, posted by red house on June 20, 2007, at 8:13:33
Thanks for writing. Don't worry about being knew. I'm pretty sure no one minds. We're all grateful to get responses and everyone has important things to contribute.
She hasn't returned my call yet. :-( And the anxiety of waiting has had my stomach in a mess all morning. So, now I'm even worried that I'll be in the bathroom when she calls and not able to answer....which makes me even MORE anxious. It's a vicious cycle.
I guess I wouldn't feel so bothered by her turning the questions back to me if she hadn't said that all I had to do was ask. And I think you hit part of my concern right on the head. What if she only said it to entice me to ask questions so she can further analyze me? Perhaps that's the case, only I can't imagine it being a technique that would work for very long. I'm pretty sure most people would catch on fairly quickly.
Posted by DAisym on June 20, 2007, at 10:46:58
In reply to Re: Help!!! I've called and more about today » red house, posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 10:00:52
I'm sorry things are so hard right now.
I know you are going to find this hard to believe, but I've had sessions like you described and felt the same awful feelings. And I was willing to try to see if it was "just me" but in the end it seems it is always both of us. I can remember a particular Thanksgiving a few years ago when I left a session and then called in and said, "why have you withdrawn your support suddenly? Do you think you've babied me enough and now I need to be pushed? I don't like it!" And I felt doubly bad that I was a disappointment to him in that I wasn't working hard enough.
What we figured out was that his own frustration of "dropping bait" came across and since he knows how much I hate to sit in silence, he was trying to fill it up. It is my job to talk or not talk, and he is OK with us not talking, but since it was a Holiday weekend, he didn't want me to leave upset. (And then he ended up calling on Thanksgiving - talk about apologizing!) Talking about the session was actually hugely helpful because I could see where I was imposing my interpretations on his actions without checking it out. Sometimes we do need to be reminded that therapy is hard work and our therapists can't read our minds. And since we only have the hour, we really don't have the luxury of a 20 minute warm up time. It really is up to us to spit out the thing that needs to be talked about. And sometimes the only way to get there is to just talk - answer questions or talk about not being able to talk.
I do think there is a trust problem, as you keep saying. I would definitely ask her about answering questions and tell her how she is making you feel. My therapist always wants to know why I am asking questions, but he will generally answer them or tell me why he won't. I can imagine that you are thinking she has this whole hidden opinion of you, it might feel like judging, and you really just want to know what she really thinks.
I hope she calls back soon and your tummy feels better soon.
Posted by muffled on June 20, 2007, at 11:58:39
In reply to Re: Help!!! I've called and more about today » red house, posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 10:00:52
Gee Jammer, your post further up this thread was REALLY well written, can you show her that as a starting point? Cuz reading AND talking is good.
Sometimes it seems like hard work trying to get our T's to understand, but all this stuff adds to trust and bonding.
I think you doing great thinking and working in T.
Its a process, a seemingly agonizingly slow one at times....
But your moving ahead.
(((Jammer)))
Muffled
Posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:08
In reply to Re: Help!!! I've called and more about today » jammerlich, posted by muffled on June 20, 2007, at 11:58:39
Which is really unusual. She usually calls by mid-morning.....before 10 a.m. Rational me thinks maybe she has a fully booked day or that she didn't get the message.
Then, there's the less rational, yet very noticable, me who thinks she must be mad or frustrated and won't call.....and will tell me when I see her tomorrow that it's not OK to call anymore.
Posted by muffled on June 20, 2007, at 13:12:15
In reply to She STILL hasn't called, posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 12:35:08
> Which is really unusual. She usually calls by mid-morning.....before 10 a.m. Rational me thinks maybe she has a fully booked day or that she didn't get the message.
>
> Then, there's the less rational, yet very noticable, me who thinks she must be mad or frustrated and won't call.....and will tell me when I see her tomorrow that it's not OK to call anymore.**I'm with you ALL the way with this post jammer.
It IS hard.
I hope she calls....
Can you phone secretary to see if she DID in fact get the message?
One way or another, try not to let it overshadow your next session, try and talk about it if you can.
You been writing some real good insights Jammer.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 16:50:03
In reply to Aaaarrgghhh » jammerlich, posted by muffled on June 20, 2007, at 13:12:15
I was on the phone, so she got sent straight to voicemail. F*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck, f*ck!!!!!!
She said she was only going to be in the office a little bit longer and by the time I'd gotten the message and called back, she'd already left for the day. Did I say f*ck?? No? Well, F*CK!!
She said she'd had people straight thru all day, so that's good. It was probably OK to call. She also said the secretary said "it wasn't pressing" and that she was sorry she missed my call. I think that might be something to clear up. I agonize over whether or not to call, so if I end up doing it, chances are whatever "it" is feels pressing to ME. If you ask me, "not pressing" and "don't page her at home; it can wait until tomorrow" are two entirely different things. Or am I splitting hairs here?
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 20, 2007, at 17:49:02
In reply to She called and I missed it, posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 16:50:03
I agree with you, Jammer. Time for clarification with her AND the receptionist, it sounds like to me.
Posted by fiji on June 20, 2007, at 21:08:05
In reply to She called and I missed it, posted by jammerlich on June 20, 2007, at 16:50:03
I am going through the same thing w/my therapist. Things have been very tough the last few weeks with many changes in our family's lives--almost all good, but comings and goings that bring up lots of feelings for me.
So I got through one particularly rough day, but called her the next day (on Saturday) and asked her to call me. She had told me she would be around over the weekend.
So I kept my phone with me every second and she didn't call. She ended up leaving me a message very late on Sunday and did call back on Monday. Well, by that time it was too late and I was really angry she hadn't called earlier and I told her so. She was quite surprised, and then I decided to skip a week (that will show her, I thought!). I had my appt today and as I was driving out there the thought occurred to me that I had a responsibility in this situation, too. I should have told her it was important and for her to call me ASAP, and she would have. But I didn't give her any reason to think it was that important.
So we talked about it, and she helped me to understand why I would naturally have been angry (a mother thing, which we've been working on).
I feel so much better, and I reminded myself that she can't help me if I don't talk, that I have to tell her how bad I feel because surprise! she can't read my mind.
Good luck,
antigua
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