![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by vwoolf on December 5, 2006, at 13:53:57
Has your t ever done anything completely out of role?
I know I am a difficult client. I am often angry during sessions and accuse my t of all sorts of things. I understand that it is related to the way I feel and felt about my mother, i.e. tranference. And I have been going through a really angry, accusatory time recently.
A few weeks ago I got really stuck in during one session, and accused her (not for the first time) of just being there for the money. She glared at me, and then jumped up and said she'd had enough, that if I could storm out of the room so could she, and she marched out and slammed the door. She came back a few minutes later. We were quite sweet and careful with each other for the rest of the session, and she sunsequently apologised and took ownership of what had happened.
But I am still wondering about it. I feel a bit bemused. On one hand I feel closer to her because she reacted personally, not in a professional capacity, towards me. It makes me feel as if I mean something real to her.
On the other hand it frightens me a little. But I don't know why. I have tried to talk about it in session, but I am not even sure what I am trying to understand, so it keeps evading me. I suspect she is trying to minimise it, but it feels quite important for me not to let it go.
Has this happened to anyone else. Can you help me in any way?
Posted by happykat on December 5, 2006, at 15:41:54
In reply to Unexpected reaction, posted by vwoolf on December 5, 2006, at 13:53:57
Hi vwoolf,
Maybe she was having a countertransference reaction. Obviously she lost her cool. I think most therapist are pretty good about keeping their emotions under control.
I just spent time outlining my transference issues to my T and she reminded me that it is a two way street that therapists also react to clients whether consciously or not. Or maybe she was just having a bad day?
Do your transference issues involve abandonment or rejection issues? Maybe part of you is feeling frightened because she actually got up and walked out leaving you alone. If my therapist did that I would probably feel abandoned (but those are my issues). I see my T as being steadfast, consistent and unwavering in her support and when she fails to meet my standards I get upset.
Walking out was definitely unwarranted unless she was trying to provoke a particular response from you. At least she owned up to her actions.
Good Luck,
happykat :)
Posted by madeline on December 5, 2006, at 16:12:25
In reply to Unexpected reaction, posted by vwoolf on December 5, 2006, at 13:53:57
I think (knowing nothing about your situation at all) the she was mirroring back your own behaviour.
Also, I think she was making a very strong point that she is not in this for the money.
Either way, she got you thinking and modeled for you how to handle a blow up.
I would definately talk to her about it.
Maddie
Posted by Shortelise on December 6, 2006, at 1:00:21
In reply to Unexpected reaction, posted by vwoolf on December 5, 2006, at 13:53:57
In the time I went through where I was transferring crap all over my T, if he'd stormed out, it would have been upset me awfully. (I absolutely do NOT agree that it was calculated on your T's part.) I needed him to be the solid, stoic person he was. I needed him to be there and hear me out, no matter what. I came to trust that no matter what came out of my mouth, he could handle it, even when I was completely hideous to him about him. He was figuring me out during that time, I think. If during that time he'd left the room in anger, it would have felt like a rejection of me, and that would have undermined therapy. Later, when we (finally, after several years) began to move into what I think he calls our "real" realationship, he said something about it being ok that I'd been that way with him. I started to cry - I'd felt so guilty about it, and to hear him say it was ok, that it was part of therapy and ok, was such a relief.We need a blank slate for a time during therapy, someone onto whom we can project and transfer to work things out with, without who they are coming into play. We need to trust that this person will be there throughout the process to help us through. Kind of like a parent, so if you are going through angry stuff at your mother, this might bring aspects of it to the front, and fast!
So, hopefully your T can put whatever feelings she has about what she did aside, and help you in whatever depth you need, for however long, to work out whatever feelings you have about it.
If you need to tell her it's ok, that you can accept that she had a bad moment, if she can accept that it brought stuff up for you that you need to work through - that it's stuff you are projecting onto your relationship with her, that it's not really about her throwing up her hands and leaving. She should know that, but if she is trying to minimize the incident, then she is denying a basic tenet of therapy: you discess it until there's nothing left to discuss, until the client has worked it through.
Good luck with this vwoolf. It's a tough one. Please be kind to yourself. T's are trained to deal with our hostility, bless their hearts. I don't know how they do it, frankly, and I am not surprised to hear they lose it occasionally. It wasn't you, you know, it was her - maybe she has a few hostile clients at the same time, and it just got to her for a moment.
Posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 2:43:34
In reply to Unexpected reaction, posted by vwoolf on December 5, 2006, at 13:53:57
Wow, that's a reaction.
But it's not such a big deal to tell your T that he/she is just in it for the money,ie it comes with the territory.
I used to do it: "I come here for your benefit"
If that had happened to me I would have just the same ambivalent response as you.
I think your T lost it in doing that though.
When I drove my T nuts she would (somewhat huffily) tell me that she was not going to do any more interpretations, and we would sit together in a vengeful silence.
Posted by Poet on December 6, 2006, at 12:44:06
In reply to Unexpected reaction, posted by vwoolf on December 5, 2006, at 13:53:57
Hi vwoolf,
My T's gotten mad at me, frustrated with me and told me so, but actually stormed out- no. Wow, your T really knows how to make a statement. I would have felt guilty if my T did that, like even though I am supposed to be able to tell her anything and everything from now on I better watch it or she'll get mad and walk out on me.
It would be hard for me to let it go, and I can see why you want to bring it up, but aren't sure if you should, but for me I would need to let my T know that weeks later it's still bothering me. My T has told me that if she ever does or says anything that upsets me or causes me to lose trust in her to please let her know. Your T might feel the same way.
Good luck. Let us know what you do.
Poet
Posted by vwoolf on December 6, 2006, at 13:50:49
In reply to Re: Unexpected reaction » vwoolf, posted by Poet on December 6, 2006, at 12:44:06
Thanks all of you, for such insightful comments. I feel a bit overwhelmed tonight so I am not going to reply to you individually. Perhaps when things come off the boil a little....
We spoke about "the incident" again today in therapy. I told her I understood that she wanted to "own" it, but I wanted to look at it from my perspective as well.
I told her that when I accused her of only being there for the money, it was as if I was talking in my mother's voice, telling myself that I was too needy and too greedy, but turning it onto her. And that was why my mother rejected me. There was no way she could satisfy me because I was excessive.
Yes I know, we all feel that.
And I told my t that when she stormed out I didn't really think she was seriously angry, it was as if she was pretending in part, because that's what it would be like for me, never really completely any thing, but always watching from outside.
My t told me she had actually been shocked by her own reaction, that there had been no pretence.
And I began to realize how unreal I feel in the world. I never fully feel anything, there's always half of me watching and criticising, and I expect others to be playing a part all the time.
And then, aside from that:
On Monday my husband had a small medical procedure, and by chance the doctor discovered that he has a malignancy. I'm not sure where this is going, but it doesn't feel real.
I have spent the last year writing a book. Yesterday a gremlin in my computer devoured the file, and I have no backup. I have had no reaction. It's as if it didn't happen.
But I didn't tell my t about these two major things today. We talked about the other incident, when she got angry. An abstraction.
She goes on leave on Friday.
In the last few days I have felt hopeless. In fact I spent last weekend writing farewell letters to my family. The gremlin in my computer deleted these files as well.
I now feel stuck.
My t has offered to speak to a colleague who can support me while she's away if things get too rough. She has offered telephonic contact.
I really don't know if I want anything at all. I feel so tired. I don't know what to do.
I don't know what I want by writing these things here either. I just need to put these feelings somewhere. I'm sorry.
Posted by Scentedgarden on December 7, 2006, at 8:50:22
In reply to Re: Unexpected reaction*** Trigger**, posted by vwoolf on December 6, 2006, at 13:50:49
>
>
>> My t told me she had actually been shocked by her own reaction, that there had been no pretence.
>
> And I began to realize how unreal I feel in the world. I never fully feel anything, there's always half of me watching and criticising, and I expect others to be playing a part all the time.
>
>
> I have spent the last year writing a book. Yesterday a gremlin in my computer devoured the file, and I have no backup. I have had no reaction. It's as if it didn't happen.
>
> But I didn't tell my t about these two major things today. We talked about the other incident, when she got angry. An abstraction.
>
> She goes on leave on Friday.
>
> In the last few days I have felt hopeless. In fact I spent last weekend writing farewell letters to my family. The gremlin in my computer deleted these files as well.
>
> I now feel stuck.
>
> My t has offered to speak to a colleague who can support me while she's away if things get too rough. She has offered telephonic contact.
>
> I really don't know if I want anything at all. I feel so tired. I don't know what to do.
>
> I don't know what I want by writing these things here either. I just need to put these feelings somewhere. I'm sorry.
> Hello there, I have just read your posts, and I wanted to say you have moved me a great deal..Thank you for sharing as you have, so honestly, and completely...I can't tell you how what you ahve said in the last few lines above has made an impact on my own life...!
Sometimes we don't know why we share, I feel that way about what I share sometimes...But I know you have said things about not feeling things completely that has struck a nerve with me...Or a chord, I should say, as it doesnt hurt..!
Anyway, if you are interested in my tupence worth ...I strongly suggest you take her offer of telephone contact..!!
You have a huge rapport with this woman, or so it looks to me, so even phone contact with her should be a million times better than face to face with a strange person, all be it a well meaning collegue..
I have spoken often to my T when I couldnt see her and it's made a difference...! Actually It can be easier for me at least to talk without the disctraction of looking into her eyes, and she has been able to comfort and help me , and listen just as well...even when i been angry with her...she never 'hung up' on me...
You seem to have an excellent thrapist who genuinely cares about you ...genuine professional care, and to my mind she ould be the one to talk to even though she is on leave from tomorrow, as she will be able to make you feel better about the elted files and your husbands health news just by listening to you, and by you sharing it with her, because you know her...if you see what I mean.
Those are two fairly huge issues, if I had written a book for a year and lost it on pc I don't even know how I would react...so i think what you are doing is wonderful, and that you will be able to cope with all this, and maybe it has happened for a reason...
Sorry if i'm annoying you now, I hate it when people tell me things happen for a reason...
PLease can I ask what were the going away cards you ahd written to your family...Are you planning on 'going away' I dont know you from these boards oth4er than tody...But I sure hope that you will not hurt yourself..!!
Thanks soooooo much Woolfe for sharing everything...I really have had enormous help and insight into myself and my own probs by reading all this and i want to THANK YOU!!
I guess when it comes down to it, we are both 2 human beings in the room...One is paid to listen the other is listened to...But we are both just people with the same issues going on in our own lives...
But therapists are not allowed to be fully normal interections with us as they would someone in a pub/bar...so it's strsnge right off the bat...I think it's hardly any wonder we encounter these questions, and difficulties in so called 'transference' issues, but it doent make it any easier knowing all that...
I think the theraputic relationshiup by design envokes strong feelings...exactly the feelings that they are trained to avoid...lol
I hope you are well, and I wish you the very best with your days ahead...
sorry this was long..but please dont be sorry for anything you said, you dont have to apologise to us/me...I feel for you i really really do...GOD BLESS YOU >>> Take care.
>
>
>
Posted by Shortelise on December 7, 2006, at 12:46:37
In reply to Re: Unexpected reaction*** Trigger**, posted by vwoolf on December 6, 2006, at 13:50:49
You can take your computer in to a repair shop and ask them to see if they can retrieve your files. Very often they can.
Posted by muffled on December 7, 2006, at 14:33:31
In reply to Re: Unexpected reaction*** Trigger**, posted by vwoolf on December 6, 2006, at 13:50:49
> And I told my t that when she stormed out I didn't really think she was seriously angry, it was as if she was pretending in part, because that's what it would be like for me, never really completely any thing, but always watching from outside.
**Yeah, I know what you mean :( Its weird insn't it?
>
> My t told me she had actually been shocked by her own reaction, that there had been no pretence.**Well, its cool she cares I guess..and its cool she's honest...
>
> And I began to realize how unreal I feel in the world. I never fully feel anything, there's always half of me watching and criticising, and I expect others to be playing a part all the time.**I used to do that ALOT. In do so less now. It may well have to do w/dissociation. Dissociation is complex. But it can get better. Good news!
However if you do tend to dissociate, please be extra careful with yourself, cuz I have found my judgement is not always too good when I am dissociating more strongly.
>
> And then, aside from that:
>
> On Monday my husband had a small medical procedure, and by chance the doctor discovered that he has a malignancy. I'm not sure where this is going, but it doesn't feel real.**I am SO sorry. I don't think that sort of thing feels real to ANYbody at first. Nobody wants to beleive its real.
>
> I have spent the last year writing a book. Yesterday a gremlin in my computer devoured the file, and I have no backup. I have had no reaction. It's as if it didn't happen.**:( That would be CRUSHING to me. I too have lost all my special writings from a period of years. It wasn't on computer. Itas physically lost. I may well have thrown them out myself in a bad moment. i don't remember. But I do know documents on computers can be retrieved and there's companies that do JUST that. Data retrieval. So there is some hope.
>
> But I didn't tell my t about these two major things today. We talked about the other incident, when she got angry. An abstraction.**Well...when you know your T is going away, well for me, it kinda messes up everything somehow...
>
> She goes on leave on Friday.**:-( I always tell myself that she gonna come back well rested and ready for action! And to some extent this has proved true.
>
> In the last few days I have felt hopeless. In fact I spent last weekend writing farewell letters to my family. The gremlin in my computer deleted these files as well.**Writing farewell letters can be cathartic I suppose.....but PLEASE do not act on it. It would be SO incredibly hurtful to SO many people.
I one time very nearly did that, and i thank God that I didn't. I had no idea at that time just how hurtful suicide is to so many. But at the time, I was thinking only of myself and my pain. I could see no way out. But I was NOT thinking clearly. There WAS a way, and here I am!!!! SO glad to be here. I appreciate the world SO much more. Healing is possible.Part of me still thinks of death, but I would not act on it. To think of the wonderful things I have experienced since that time!.......Yes, there's been very hard times too, burt I am learning to cope.
>
> I now feel stuck.**Been there.....but try and trust me on this, things can and do get better.(I have reams of writings on how I spinning my wheels etc etc)
>
> My t has offered to speak to a colleague who can support me while she's away if things get too rough. She has offered telephonic contact.**Well every situation is different with their T.
If she has offered telephone contact, I too would take it. I myself would proly limit it to 1x/wk, or if I was in crisis. Also, I get my T to leave a soothing message on my answer machine for me to listen to. I hate to admit just how many times I have listened over and over to her messages at times....(also, funnily, for me, the messages must be 'fresh'!lol.As in, left in the last 2 wks or so, or they don't count- I AM a funny one!)
AS for the colleague, that could be good backup. Another human being, whom your T presumably trusts, that you can talk to if needed.(You wanna hear another funny one....my T is going away for over a month next year, and she has said she gonna have a person I can talk to, and in the back of my mind I already feeling guilty and don't wanto talk to a diff person cuz I feel I 'switching allegiance' ! And horror of horrors, what if I like new person better!!!!ROFL. Its not easy being me!!!)
>
> I really don't know if I want anything at all. I feel so tired. I don't know what to do.**You been hit by the blues I reckon. Not unsurprizingly. You got alot on your plate.
>
> I don't know what I want by writing these things here either. I just need to put these feelings somewhere. I'm sorry.**Not sure why you sorry, this is what babbles for.
I sorry I so long winded. And I don't mean to be flip in my writings. Its just how I write sometimes. I just wanto send some hope and its gonna be OK type stuff your way.
Take care,
Muffled
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.