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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:49:18
I feel so bad.
Yesterday evening I went to my friend Kate’s house to see her and to see a couple of other friends who were staying overnight at Kate’s. (Confusingly enough, they’re called Kate as well, so there were three Kates in the one place.) I got to meet Kate #1’s new boyfriend, who seemed really nice. Kate #2 had brought her father, and I’d never met him before either. And I’ve known Kate #3 for years but don’t get to see her very often. So it was a lovely evening.
However… and this is the thing I feel really bad about… Gee, I can hardly bear to write this… OK well… The thing is, I don’t feel comfortable feeling attracted to people at the best of times. But it’s even worse when it happens to me suddenly when I’m not expecting it. I kind of feel I can protect myself from feelings of attraction if I’m expecting it: I can sublimate it somehow. But when it happens unexpectedly… I find it so difficult. And I was instantly attracted to Theo (Kate’s dad). He’s about 15 years older than me, so he’s not old enough to be my father. Well, we all talked quite a bit and the conversation got a bit racy from time to time, and I kept looking over at him and he seemed to be looking back. And I thought to myself, “That’s my friend’s father. Stop it. Just stop it.” But at the same time I kept imagining what it would be like to unbutton his shirt… And I felt really guilty but really excited at the same time. I felt completely overwhelmed by the feelings of attraction.
Nothing happened between us. But I can’t take any credit for that. I’m certain that if I’d had the slightest opportunity I would have tried to initiate a kiss or something. And there are just so many reasons not to: I’m married, he’s recently widowed, and he’s my friend’s father. I know it’s wrong. So why do I feel as if I can’t help it?
I feel so dirty and disgusting for being such a pervert. I don’t know how to handle these feelings. I feel as if I just can’t resist the temptation. And yet, I’m an adult. I know that I am responsible for my actions. I know that there are consequences when people do socially unacceptable things. I know if I ever made a move on Theo it would ruin my friendship with Kate. Why can’t I be sensible and rational about stuff like this? Why do I feel as if I’d be prepared to risk a good friendship (and possibly my marriage) for a couple of hours of sex? It feels so disloyal.
Actually, I’m fairly certain Theo would have knocked me back. So nothing would have happened even if I’d tried it on. He has the maturity to refuse my advances. But why don’t I have the maturity not to make advances in the first place? The only thing that saved me from making an idiot of myself last night was lack of opportunity. That really scares me. I feel so horribly disgusting. I want to blame my inner 18 year-old, but I don’t think that will get me very far. I’m *not* a kid; I shouldn’t be overwhelmed by feelings like this. I should be able to put them in perspective. I just don’t know how. I don’t think I ever learned how. I feel very confused.
Posted by bent on August 12, 2006, at 22:33:53
In reply to I’m a big fat pervert, posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:49:18
Tamar, you are definitely not a pervert. I wish I knew why we can have feelings like this. I had a similar situation with a friends dad who was 16 years older than me. We kissed plenty and almost took it way further...now I am glad I didnt. But back then, at that moment, there was no logic. I had so much to lose, my fiance, my friend, even my job was tied into it. Its like I was just blinded. Try to keep grounded and think about why this might be happening right now. For me there were many reasons beyond infatuation and sex that drew me to this guy. I just couldnt see it at the time- that blinded thing. Sorry I cant help you too much.
Posted by Dinah on August 13, 2006, at 13:43:57
In reply to I’m a big fat pervert, posted by Tamar on August 12, 2006, at 21:49:18
It's ok to be attracted to others. It's ok to be attracted to older others or younger others. It's ok to be attracted to the fathers of friends.
It's ok to feel anything you feel.
The truth is that you did resist the temptation. You might think it's only because he didn't give you an opening, but you didn't force an opening either. It's useless to speculate on what you might have done.
Yes, you are responsible for your actions. I don't know your arrangement with your husband, or how Kate would feel about your being involved with her father. But I'm reasonable sure that you would take responsibility for any consequences of any of your actions. You're taking responsibility for the consequences already, even though nothing happened.
Isn't it more useful to take the judgement out of your assessment of the situation, and just acknowledge that there would likely be unpleasant consequences to some of the choices you could make? That's true about everything. We all have impulses from time to time to do things that could have negative consequences. Everything from imagining quitting your job to fiddling with the radio while you're driving.
In the meantime, you can have as many pleasurable fantasies about your friend's father as you wish, without hurting a single soul. And there's nothing perverted about that.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 13, 2006, at 15:29:05
In reply to You are not. » Tamar, posted by Dinah on August 13, 2006, at 13:43:57
> In the meantime, you can have as many pleasurable fantasies about your friend's father as you wish, without hurting a single soul. And there's nothing perverted about that.
Dinah is pretty wise- no use in speculating what might have happened. It didn't happen, so don't be so hard on yourself. Plus, being attracted to someone, even if it's just a passionate kind of lust, is in no way perverted! It's human and natural to feel that way from time to time.
-ll
Posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 6:57:09
In reply to Re: I’m a big fat pervert » Tamar, posted by bent on August 12, 2006, at 22:33:53
> Tamar, you are definitely not a pervert. I wish I knew why we can have feelings like this. I had a similar situation with a friends dad who was 16 years older than me. We kissed plenty and almost took it way further...now I am glad I didnt. But back then, at that moment, there was no logic. I had so much to lose, my fiance, my friend, even my job was tied into it. Its like I was just blinded. Try to keep grounded and think about why this might be happening right now. For me there were many reasons beyond infatuation and sex that drew me to this guy. I just couldnt see it at the time- that blinded thing. Sorry I cant help you too much.
Thanks bent. That was very helpful. I think you’re right: there are reasons beyond infatuation and sex. I will start thinking about why I might have such a strong sense of attraction to this total stranger.
Posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 7:03:27
In reply to You are not. » Tamar, posted by Dinah on August 13, 2006, at 13:43:57
> It's ok to be attracted to others. It's ok to be attracted to older others or younger others. It's ok to be attracted to the fathers of friends.
I suppose…
> It's ok to feel anything you feel.
Yeah; I’ve read here many times that feelings are facts. They just are.
> The truth is that you did resist the temptation. You might think it's only because he didn't give you an opening, but you didn't force an opening either. It's useless to speculate on what you might have done.
I guess that’s true. It makes more sense to focus on what actually happened (or didn’t happen) rather than on what might have happened.
> Yes, you are responsible for your actions. I don't know your arrangement with your husband, or how Kate would feel about your being involved with her father. But I'm reasonable sure that you would take responsibility for any consequences of any of your actions. You're taking responsibility for the consequences already, even though nothing happened.
That’s true.
> Isn't it more useful to take the judgement out of your assessment of the situation, and just acknowledge that there would likely be unpleasant consequences to some of the choices you could make? That's true about everything. We all have impulses from time to time to do things that could have negative consequences. Everything from imagining quitting your job to fiddling with the radio while you're driving.
That’s true. I guess what scared me was that the impulse was so incredibly strong; it seemed irresistible.
> In the meantime, you can have as many pleasurable fantasies about your friend's father as you wish, without hurting a single soul. And there's nothing perverted about that.
I know. Fantasies are good. I suppose I was really spooked by the sense that I would have done something. It feels like a very narrow escape that had more to do with luck than my judgment.
Oh, and the other thing is that I will be meeting him again this coming weekend! So I have just a few days to ensure that I don’t yield to temptation the next time! Maybe a few fantasies would be just the thing… a reminder that reality is often disappointing.
Posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 7:10:51
In reply to Re: You are not., posted by llrrrpp on August 13, 2006, at 15:29:05
> Dinah is pretty wise- no use in speculating what might have happened. It didn't happen, so don't be so hard on yourself. Plus, being attracted to someone, even if it's just a passionate kind of lust, is in no way perverted! It's human and natural to feel that way from time to time.
Thanks ll. I know somewhere inside my rational self that attraction is natural and not perverted. But this seems excessive. Though, as you say, nothing happened.
Maybe lots of people feel intense attraction from time to time. Maybe lots of people occasionally think “F*ck the consequences; I so would do him [or her].” But I hardly ever hear women talk that way unless they’re talking about Brad Pitt or George Clooney. I don’t often hear women say they’d be prepared to throw caution to the wind for a fifty-something father of three… It feels socially unacceptable to be so attracted to a real man. Sigh.
Posted by Dinah on August 14, 2006, at 10:35:08
In reply to Re: You are not. » llrrrpp, posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 7:10:51
> > It feels socially unacceptable to be so attracted to a real man. Sigh.
>
>
>
>It's not, you know. I'm the odd one for only being attracted to 2D people. My therapist and I have talked many times about this. Perhaps people just say it about 2D people because everyone knows who George Clooney is, but no one knows who Albert from work is, so they don't think to bring it up. Or perhaps if the person is someone everyone knows, they're a bit embarassed to reveal something personal that might get gossipped about and get back to Albert.
As far as irresistable impulses go. I often have impulses that feel irresistable to me. Maybe it's part of my OCD. But I often surprise myself with greater powers of resistance that I'm aware I have.
Thinking through a fantasy to its natural conclusion is something I often do, when it's causing me inconvenience. It often takes all the fun out of it, but it can definitely be useful.
Posted by happyflower on August 14, 2006, at 10:58:48
In reply to Re: You are not., posted by Dinah on August 14, 2006, at 10:35:08
(((((Tamar))) You are not a pervert, you are just experiencing normal sexual feelings. It does probably feel wrong because it is your friends father, and that you are married. But attraction is attraction, we really can't help it. We can control the urges not to act on it if we shouldn't , not that i am saying that you should or shouldn't . But what you are feeling is actually good and healthy.
Posted by llrrrpp on August 14, 2006, at 13:27:14
In reply to Re: You are not. » llrrrpp, posted by Tamar on August 14, 2006, at 7:10:51
>But I hardly ever hear women talk that way unless they’re talking about Brad Pitt or George Clooney. I don’t often hear women say they’d be prepared to throw caution to the wind for a fifty-something father of three… It feels socially unacceptable to be so attracted to a real man. Sigh.
>Brad Pitt is a "married" father of 3. He's fortysomething. But he's distant and somehow unreal. It's always scarier to feel real feelings for a real human. Just like it's scarier to announce a realistic goal (get a college degree) than it is to announce an unrealistic degree (get an MDPhD from Harvard). At least you know that your "crush" chip is not permanently damaged. AND you know that the next time such a crush happens you CAN keep it in the realm of fantasy, rather than allow the crush to make your life overly complicated...
-ll
Posted by ElaineM on August 14, 2006, at 16:24:39
In reply to Re: You are not. » Tamar, posted by llrrrpp on August 14, 2006, at 13:27:14
Don't have anything new to add, but I agree that there's nothing wrong with having a physical attraction to someone older, or to a friend's father. Was is just a physical thing or is there more about him that makes you feel so drawn to him. Sometimes there's other stuff going on underneath. But sometimes it's just a good-looking man and a want for something that feels good immediately.
I agree with LL about finding the whole "crush" thing encouraging. For years after I wasn't able to feel anything but fear. Before that, was years of depression-numb -- nothingness. Feeling something positive like that again, let me know I was alive.
You're not a pervert, or abnormal. (((Tamar)))
EL
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