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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 16:42:45
In reply to just forget I ever said anything, posted by happyflower on November 26, 2005, at 21:20:13
> I was only joking,
I think that maybe what is hard about it is that you are talking about a human being here. You (and others) might well think it is amusing to joke about this...
But aren't you just encouraging yourself in something that is likely to cause you great pain ultimately?
Why is this funny?
Sorry, but I'm having trouble here...
Maybe it is a joke to you...
Have you thought about him at all?
I mean...
If you really care about him...
Aren't you concerned that if anything does happen between you that he will lose his lisence to practice?
That you could be the end of his career?
That you could damage his reputation irrevokably if you were to do what you are joking about?
Is that the kind of thing you would wish upon your 'soul mate'?Don't you think...
That if you were together that over time you would come to worry about what he is up to with his current clients?
That after 12 years of being with him you know that he could very well just up and leave having found another 'soul mate' in another client?I know you said you think you are living in reality, you aren't caught up in a fantasy at all...
But how much have you thought about the reality?
How much have you respected him as a person in your joking around?This really is a serious matter...
I hope you stick around.
People really are worried about the both of you.But maybe...
Things really have gone too far.
With all the joking around you have started to talk yourself into something...
With all the joking around you are becoming a very real threat to his professional practice and his reputation...You might want to think about that...
And think about that with respect to whether you really do love him as a person, or whether you are indulging some fantasy here.
It really isn't... A joking matter.
Posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2005, at 20:15:13
In reply to In the home stretch now, posted by happyflower on November 26, 2005, at 16:06:01
Hi Happyflower,
I think I'm worried about something different from what other people are worried about. From what you've said, I think that your therapist is a good therapist. I think that the boundaries are bending a little, but you did a post a while ago that makes me feel confident that your therapist will do the right things for you. You said:
>My T says... that you can't help who you fall in love with. He has also said that you fall in love with someone who fills your needs at the moment, maybe not someone for the rest of your life. My T says you can't control your feelings or thoughts.
So if he has feelings for me, he couldn't help it right? But you can control your actions, he says, which is right. So I don't know what I am trying to say but could it be possible for a T to fall in really fall in love with a client? Now I know it is his job to control his actions and he is, but couldn't my T be in love with me? Could it happen after all I am so lovable and irrestritable! LOLOf course you are lovable and irresitable! And it IS possible that your therapist is in love with you. But it is ALSO possible that, even if he is in love with you, that he will control his actions. That would mean that he could have feelings for you, but require the relationship to stay as a therapist/patient relationship. And it could mean that he would not tell you of his feelings, because telling you might not be in your best interest, or in the best interest of your therapy.
I guess I'm worried that he will maintain the boundaries (which I think I expect him to do), and that THAT will be very hard for you to accept. And I'm afraid that the longer you wait to talk to him about this, the deeper your feelings will be, and the harder it will be if he does maintain the boundaries. So I guess that I hope that you will talk to him soon, so that you can be grounded in reality.
Maybe I'm projecting here, because I know that I have a tendency to get started in some direction, and that direction seems to take on a life of its own. And I'm happily skipping down a particular path. But then I hit a reality check and I find out that one of my most basic assumptions wasn't true. And it would have been a lot easier for me to know that at the beginning before I put so much time and effort and energy into skipping down the path. Plus, when that reality check comes, if I've gone a long way down the path I get wicked, wicked embarassed ("I should have known better...", "How could I have thought that..."). This is one reason I'm so glad that I can see my therapist 3/week. Because that doesn't give me time to get too far down any path before I check in with him.
So, I hope you can talk to him soon about this. And I hope that you know that we are here, if you need us.
Falls.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:07:11
In reply to Re: just forget I ever said anything, posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 16:42:45
About the underware joke, it was a joke, he took it as a joke, so it isn't a big deal as some of you are taking it. We were earlier in our session talking about what happens at some rock concerts. Sometimes women throw their underware at the performers. Since I was performing and he was going to go, but couldn't, I just said, as a joke, well I will have to find somebody else to throw my underware at. It was funny and we both laughed. He didn't take it anyway other than a joke. I still think it was funny.
Posted by sleepygirl on November 27, 2005, at 21:14:34
In reply to Re: just forget I ever said anything » alexandra_k, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:07:11
Hi happyflower! Good! you came back.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:27:13
In reply to Re: you are going to follow your transference » happyflower, posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 15:15:12
> > > And how much does that 12 years mean to you,
> How much are you thinking of your husband and your children when you are prepared to throw that all away just like that?First of all, I am not the one who has ruined my marriage, it was my DH. I can't make somebody want and love me if they don't want to. He is the one who has "left" emotionally and sexually from the marriage.
> > I didn't enter therapy because I was totally screwed up person, I have lived a very normal adult life.
>
> So why were you in therapy again?I was in therapy (for the first and only time) because I was suffering from PTSD because of my mother. She threaten to abduct my kids. She was a very sick person. I was abused so badly from her, it freaked me out, when she started to send unmarked packages to my house to my kids. The whole story is in the archives. I was in therapy because of my past. I was doing fine in the present, until my mother starting to make death threats and stuff like that. That freaked me out, and I think it wouldl freak anyone out. Anyone can suffer from PTSD at any time in there life.
You haven't told me anything I haven't read myself or heard. I feel you are being hard on me, it seems like you are talking down to me or something. I think you are getting way too carried away. You are treating me like I am totally stupid or something, like I never even heard of transference.
I think I "got" you view of things. Some things I agree with you , but you a little uninformed about some of the details in my current situation.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:32:59
In reply to I'm sorry you're feeling hurt » happyflower, posted by Dinah on November 27, 2005, at 15:16:41
Thanks Dinah,
I now know how you feel. After today posts, I think I will just leave anyways. I might still read some of the posts and reply through babble mail, but about my therapy situation, I don't feel comfortable at all in posting anything.
I know who is really there for my support, and those who are just harshly judging me. Thank you Dinah, I feel you have supported me through out my therapy journey. I wish you the best of luck in your journey.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:40:19
In reply to Re: In the home stretch now » happyflower, posted by fallsfall on November 27, 2005, at 20:15:13
Yes, my T is a very good T and probably he won't want to stir up things in order to be with me. This is what I am 80% expecting him to do. We would just see each other socially at the gym and say hi, and chat a little. If he deceides that this is all he is willing to do, it will hurt a little I am sure, but I will respect his decision. I will be okay with it. I am not blindly looking into this, I am looking at all sides of it. My life will not be devestated if I don't become romantically involved with my T. I am okay, and I will be okay in either way things turn out. I do know a lot about him, but not enough to put my whole life on hold for him right now. I think after my divorse, I plan to date others too.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:41:56
In reply to Re: In the home stretch now » happyflower, posted by LadyBug on November 26, 2005, at 16:18:51
Thanks Lady Bug for "getting" the joke and not taking it too seriously. LOL Yikes! I say!
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:46:22
In reply to Re: just forget I ever said anything » happyflower, posted by sleepygirl on November 27, 2005, at 21:14:34
> Hi happyflower! Good! you came back.
Thanks sleepygirl. I only going to post for a couple of days about this. I had to defend my self a little, things seem to be way out of control. I will still be around offering others support, but I won't be posting about my stuff. Of course you can always babble mail me, and I will let you know when the wedding is! LOL Oh, goodness, sh*t is going to hit the fan again! LOL :)
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:52:54
In reply to Re: In the home stretch now/panties, yes/LOL » happyflower, posted by allisonross on November 26, 2005, at 16:40:21
Hey Ally , just wanted to say hi and thank you for your lightness. I think it is needed around the boards lately. I will email ya later! I hope your therapy went well tonight! Did you throw your undies at him tonight? LOL Opps, I better duck! THIS IS A JOKE!
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:01:29
In reply to Angry flower :-( » happyflower, posted by Voce on November 26, 2005, at 22:47:42
Thanks Voce,(messavoce? right?)
Yeah, I am surprised by the very strong views and the lack of humor. Everyone who knows me, knows I kid around a lot.
When did everyone become such an expert? LOL I am okay, I will still offer support to others, but my therapy is going to stay private. It seems to offend too many people. Thank you! :)
Posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 22:05:19
In reply to Re: you are going to follow your transference » alexandra_k, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 21:27:13
I'm sorry that you felt I was talking down to you. I most certainly did not mean to sound that way, and I do not look down on you at all.
Just trying to get you thinking is all...
Fantasy vs reality...
Something to think about.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:09:17
In reply to Re: Angry flower :-(, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:01:29
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:13:48
In reply to Re: you are going to follow your transference » happyflower, posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 22:05:19
>> Just trying to get you thinking is all...
>
> Fantasy vs reality...
>
> Something to think about.
>I have thought a lot about all of this, reseached the rules, the negative outcomes, I have looked at the positive and the negative. I am still thinking about it, I am not taking it lightly. Nothing might not even come out of all of this too, I am prepared for that too. Thanks for your concern, but could you be a little more gentler about it? I do have feelings too.
Posted by annierose on November 27, 2005, at 22:16:00
In reply to Re: Angry flower :-(, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:01:29
I'm sorry you feel your feelings towards your therapist have been put down. I try when I write to you to be cautious. You keep saying "I like to joke around a lot." But these feelings for your T are not a joking matter. I think that is what people are reacting to. They want to protect you, help you, reach out and hope you do talk about these fantasties with your T. I do think he is a great T. You have grown and learned a great deal. And I think you should continue to see him (and more often if you are able to).
There's a giant pink elephant with you in your sessions and I hope you mention how cute he is soon! You do matter. You are likeable. And I too hope you stick around.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:23:25
In reply to Re: Angry flower :-( » happyflower, posted by annierose on November 27, 2005, at 22:16:00
Thanks Annierose! I do joke around a lot, but yet I do have a serious side too. My feelings are serious, and they do need to be discused soon with him. I like him a lot (notice I didn't say love) and I enjoy his presence very much and I feel these feelings are mutual. I feel we are both attracted to each other physically and emotionally) But that might be all it is, and I am prepared for that. I am okay, I won't do anything too dumb. My T is great, and even if he doesn't want me romantically or as a real friend, I still know he likes me, and enjoys my company. I feel good about that. :)
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:29:13
In reply to Re: Angry flower :-( » annierose, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:23:25
Times sure flies when you are on these boards! LOL :)
Posted by alexandra_k on November 27, 2005, at 22:31:33
In reply to Re: you are going to follow your transference » alexandra_k, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:13:48
Hey. I really did not mean to suggest that you hadn't thought about this. I guess I was pretty much thinking... About the transference / love thing. And about the difference between them. And about how you might be able to tell the difference between them.
> I have thought a lot about all of this, reseached the rules, the negative outcomes, I have looked at the positive and the negative. I am still thinking about it, I am not taking it lightly.
Okay.
>Nothing might not even come out of all of this too, I am prepared for that too.
Okay. I guess I'm most worried about something coming out of it. Something coming out of it and it going badly. Badly for you. I really hope... That if your feelings are reciprocated... That you guys do this by the book and respect the two year thing. I really think the intention of that is to protect the both of you. It might seem a little paternalistic... But those cases that do end badly... I think they probably wouldn't have gotten together after a two year break. And if you guys are keen to hook up after a two year break... Then there is so much more of a chance that things will go well there. And he won't have to worry about loss of lisence.
>Thanks for your concern, but could you be a little more gentler about it? I do have feelings too.
Yes. I know you have feelings too. I'm sorry that you feel like I was disrespecting them. Really.
:-((((happyflower)))
I hope you don't go...
I understand about how sometimes it doesn't seem safe to post things to the boards.
And about how sometimes the responses don't seem helpful.
And I really hate it when things go like that :-(You are appreciated here.
I think... I am in a fairly sombre mood, and have been in a fairly sombre mood lately. Very serious and something of a killjoy methinks. Sorry about that.
Don't stop being you.
And please don't stop joking around,
Because you are right
Sometimes humour and lightening up is just what is in order.I hope...
You stick around.
And that you talk through this with people on the boards (as you have been doing)
:-)
Because...
You are valued here.And it can be helpful to post about things and get support
And I'm sorry that you feel that you have been jumped on rather.Take care.
Posted by LipGloss on November 27, 2005, at 22:31:39
In reply to Re: Angry flower :-( » annierose, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:23:25
Gee,
I always thought it was the audience member that threw panties at the performer. I never saw a performer throw them at the audience......just a thought.
Posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:37:20
In reply to Re: Throwing Panties, posted by LipGloss on November 27, 2005, at 22:31:39
> Gee,
>
> I always thought it was the audience member that threw panties at the performer. I never saw a performer throw them at the audience......just a thought.That was part of what was so funny. :) It was just a joke and since my concert was coming up that following week, it was a little twist on what were talking about. My T got that is was a joke, and from his jokes he tells me, it was nothing. Can you see any humor in this? If not it is okay.
Posted by orchid on November 28, 2005, at 1:52:39
In reply to Re: Throwing Panties » LipGloss, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:37:20
Hi HF,
I wonder about something. Do you really think objectively that you and your T are soul mates? And if you married each other, your life will be full of happiness and joy? Or atleast that it will be very emotionally fulfilling?
These days, I have become very much convinced there is no such thing as soul mates. I keep thinking that I could have lived as happily with many men as I could have possibly lived with any one man. It is mostly about taking the efforts to make the marriage work. There really isn't that much of difference amongst different persons.
Why I am saying this, is, perhaps for the time being, maybe you can focus on your marriage more and leave aside things with your T and leave it for time to answer. For all you know, at the end of 2 years, you might be once again in love with your husband, and you may not think as highly of your T as you think now. Plus I agree with LipGloss in the fact that breaking families especially when kids are involved is really heartbreaking for everyone involved. You might end up regretting it in the long run.
Posted by orchid on November 28, 2005, at 2:00:38
In reply to For HappyFlower » happyflower, posted by orchid on November 28, 2005, at 1:52:39
>
> These days, I have become very much convinced there is no such thing as soul mates. I keep thinking that I could have lived as happily with many men as I could have possibly lived with any one man.-------
change the above to "I could have lived as happily with any man as I could have possibly lived with any one man that I thought I really liked"
Posted by happyflower on November 28, 2005, at 6:05:58
In reply to For HappyFlower » happyflower, posted by orchid on November 28, 2005, at 1:52:39
HI orchid,
I didn't believe in soul mates either until I met my T . It is hard to explain it, but it is a feeling of being one with that person. I felt this the first time I met him. I didn't know what the feeling was at first, but there is this connectedness feeling.
As far as getting married, even with a soul mate you still have to work at a marriage. No marriage is easy, it takes a lot of understanding, patience, love, and so many things on so many levels. But if you mesh with a person on a lot of levels, it is easier, not easy, but easier.
As far as my marriage, it takes two to save it. I am trying, but if the other person doesn't even want to talk to you or spend time with you , it makes it really hard to work on issues. Plus he refuses to do marriage therapy. So what am I suppose to do? Do I stay in sexless, emotionaless, empty marriage for the sake of my kids? I am still trying to weigh that out. This is what my remaining therapy sessions are about these days. I would have done with therapy months ago my T said, but because of what is going on in my marriage, I am still in therapy to help save the relationship.But it has been dead since last March. I have tried to do everything my T suggests. Nothing is working. I can't make him love me, if he doesn't epecially if he is in love with somebody else. ( a whole other issue, he won't talk about)
Meanwhile I am trying to help fullfill my life with other things to cover the void I feel. I am doing a lot of stuff, and it feels great, I am not just a wife and mother, but I have myself to be happy with. I am enjoying life so much now days. It is rich with converstaions with other people, playing music, doing yoga, working out everyday. I feel really good. I am also in training with my trumpet teacher to become a great classical trumpet player. Hopefully in a year, I will be trying out for some of the professional symphonies in my area. I feel like I am living out my dreams. It is wonderful, it is the only thing keeping me sane during my unhappy marriage.
If I can work it out with my DH, then yes, I want to stay in my marriage. I love my DH dearly and would love to keep my family together. But so far, we are nothing close to that.
Posted by allisonross on November 28, 2005, at 8:29:22
In reply to 3 days 12.5 hours to go!, posted by happyflower on November 27, 2005, at 22:29:13
Hi, all; have been following Happy's story. I have been in love with my t for over 2 years. The "elephant" in the room, has been discussed many, many times; we are authentic with each other.
I know he has feelings for me; it is obvious. He says he has been tempted. He says "as long as we talk about it, it isn't dangerous" (?!)...and as long as we don't act on our feelings. He also said: "I am afraid I am going to fall, and it would ruin my life."
From an article on the web: Transference or Reality? "The therapeutic relationship is the only occasion in which feelings for each other reeive special names (transference and countertranceference)
Such a generic name for a specific feeling. Nobody would doubt me if I said I had fallen in love with my neighbor, etc., but if I claim I have fallen in love with my therapist that is transference.
I would have fallen in love with my t (and told him), if I had met him anywhere else. He says he is "in pain, to a degree...if I am in pain." He knows that unrequited love is terrible and painful.
Someone mentioned something about men being pretty much alike, and learning to work and live with someone. Unfortunately, I disagree. I was married for 31 years to an abuser. He was as horrific as they get.
The difference between the "ex" and my t is as different as black and white.
I think what HappyFlower would like (is what everyone wants); simply affirmation of her feelings. She is intelligent and understands all the stuff that is going on, and it is possible to get hurt. I have been living in this pain of loving someone for over 2 years.
Criticism is criticism (no matter how gently put), and we all want to be understood (heard), and have our feelings affirmed.
I told my t that I would "rather be in pain WITH him, that be in pain WITHOUT him."
And so, the saga continues. We are so much alike it is scary (he has self-disclosed quite a lot). He said last year: "This is starting to look like a personal relationship." Duhhh, it has been for a very long time.
We cannot deny human nature. Put 2 people in a room for years..either there will be chemistry, or not. Obviously we all make our own choices on how to behave.
I've held the boundaries (ironic), but he has bent a lot of them.Bottom line? Love is love; it is real, and should be honored.
LOVE to you all/Ally
Posted by orchid on November 28, 2005, at 8:51:00
In reply to ALL/I'm in same boat/HUGE difference in men, posted by allisonross on November 28, 2005, at 8:29:22
Isn't it little too coincidental that every T seems to be attracted to their patient (atleast in the patient's opinion), and every patient feels that their Ts are their soul mates?
That is what makes it different from regular relationship.
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