![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jen Star on June 26, 2005, at 10:17:33
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
hi gg,
I think you should be a "good GG" and focus on that. "Good CLIENT" is only secondary and is important only insofar as it relates back to you and your needs.You should ( I think! ) work on satisfying yourself and your needs, not his. Maybe it does bleed off transference, but wouldn't also talking to a mom, a close group of girlfriends over lunch, or a trusted spouse? I think therapy should not have to be done in a vacuum of YOU+T. The therapy world should be as big and as various as YOU need it to be to get maximum benefit. I too enjoy hearing lots of different insights and responses to questions & dilemmas. It helps me focus and think of new paths of insight.
Of course part of me is talking selfishly here, because I enjoy your posts here! And I would hate to lose them. However, I also really do believe you should do what's right for yOU. If that means not sharing things, then you should hold back. But don't do it for HIM or to be called a good client. I think therapy is different for everyone, and progress can be made whether there is expansive transference of not.
Anyway, good luck! It sounds like there might be a very interesting discussion with T coming up....questions about how much transference he wants from you, and why, and whether you two couldn't work just as well without it...take care,
JenStar
Posted by crushedout on June 26, 2005, at 10:28:17
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
Hi gg,
My thoughts are that I don't know what the heck he's talking about. I mean, if you talk to anyone (say, a friend or a husband) about your feelings, are you also "bleeding off the transference" by not processing everything with him? I don't think our Ts should try to be, or want to be, or pretend to be our only sources of either emotional support or channels to understanding ourselves. Even if you see your T 5 hours a week, that just might not be enough, and you can't rely solely on your T.
While I *guess* I can *sort* of see his point, I don't think it's right for you to feel like a bad client for doing therapy, as it were, outside of therapy. I mean, are you not allowed to think or write, either? I often work out lots of stuff that way, and it feels a lot like therapy to me when I do. And then when I go in to see my T, I've already worked out certain things, but it's not like we run out of stuff to work on.
What do you think? Am I making sense, or am I just completely missing your T's point?
I'm not sure why this kind of struck a nerve for me. None of my Ts have ever suggested that I shouldn't rely on Babble (in fact, they seem pleased that I do), so I wouldn't think I'd be particularly sensitive about it. But excuse me if my tone is a little, um, cranky. :)
Posted by Jazzed on June 26, 2005, at 11:06:47
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
> Hi everyone. My T has never really said much about Babble, although since I went to Chicago, he seems to be more aware of my particpation (but not the name, thank goodness.)
>
> At any rate, he recently said that although he thinks y'all sound very supportive and he can see how that is helpful, he thought that posting about my therapy and receiving replies "bleeds off the transference."
>Hmmmm..... that's really interesting GG. I think my initial reaction would be feeling flattered that he wants to be the one and only with whom you share that transference. The only one who can see and deal with those intense emotions. BUT, if you were on meds, and they took the edge off those emotions, what then? Wouldn't that also change what he sees, and how you deal with things. Or, if you ran everything by your husband and/or friends. Wouldn't that be expected, and wouldn't that be like what we do here?
I think about stuff between sessions, and even when I hash it out on here, I still have to hash it out again in session because no one can really tell me what's going on in my T's mind, what he was thinking, or how he would handle an issue. Talking about it, and having it normalized seems pretty normal to me. Sharing and being validated seems normal to me too.
On the other hand, if he doesn't want you to post, and you want to be the good client, are you going to feel stifled? Can you discuss with him in 50 min. everything you can discuss on here in a week? Even if you don't post the most emotionally charged stuff, won't you still share it with someone, like Dinah by IM? I can't imagine keeping my feelings to myself for that long! It would drive me bonkers and consume my every waking moment.
I guess I'd have to know what he does and doesn't want me to share, and why.
Jazzy
Posted by daisym on June 26, 2005, at 11:31:50
In reply to Re: T comment about Babble » gardenergirl, posted by Jazzed on June 26, 2005, at 11:06:47
I think the difference for me is that I (mostly) talk about my therapy here, my therapist and my needs for support. I rarely talk about my "issues" here -- the biggest exception being the thread above, and posting about dreams. This board has helped me understand how to think more psychologically and has normalized my reactions to the therapy -- I've always called it "therapy for therapy."
But -- I would say then it does lesson the transference. Because these are the parts I wouldn't talk to anyone else about. I might say, "my therapist is on vacation" but I wouldn't say "and I'm devastated." So the comfort would be different. I would have to return to sessions saying, "I was devastated" in order for this to be heard.
I think experimenting is the right thing to do. But I think you might also ask yourself what the purpose of therapy is. Isn't it to feel better and figure out how to get supports in your life to continue to feel better? And aren't social supports, any social supports, one way to do this?
I guess the key is to try to remember the trail...what were you thinking and feeling when you first posted and why or how did that change, if it did, by the time you got back to a session. It would be my experience that the energy and emotions would dissipate over time anyway. By writing it down I can go back and more easily remember what was happening.All that said, I think my situation is pretty different than yours because I see my therapist or talk to him so much. So there is a lot of quick follow up. I think that is what we were trying to convience Dinah of a while back - two days in a row is really different but very powerful. It isn't like one long session.
The flip side of this is that maybe we help fan the flames of your transference -- because this place can really make you question things. I'll be interested in the results of your experiment.
Posted by fallsfall on June 26, 2005, at 11:40:50
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
My therapist said the same thing 18 months ago.
I'm not in a very chatty mood right now, so I'll just give you an outline.
He said that it felt like there were more people in the room than just him and me. And he couldn't tell which ideas were my ideas and which ideas came from the board. He particularly didn't like the "He said... I said..." kinds of posts - he says that noone except him and me knows what was going on in the therapy room. And that he doesn't want me speculating about what he was thinking or meaning, that he wants me to ask him about it - so I will know what was *really* going on. I did reduce the amount of discussion that I had (both on the board and in IMs and emails) about the details of my therapy sessions. Things are going well, so I sort of have to assume that that wasn't a bad thing.
There are still times when I do tell the story of what has happened in therapy (like last week). I then brought in my posts and read my posts (but not the responses) so that he could see the progression of my thoughts over time. And so he could see how angry I was right after the session. He was surprised by my reaction to the session. But he still wasn't thrilled that I read my posts (he said it was like the olden days)- he would rather I "told" him about it (but by then the emotion is gone...).
I do find when I have a rough session on Thursday, and I'll be seeing him on Friday that I do tend to keep it to myself. But Friday to Monday and Monday to Thursday can be rough. And I think that if I didn't Babble, that I would ruminate a lot more. I think he would be happier if I journalled, and then didn't share my journalling.
So we go back and forth on this. I want to share the stuff so I can understand better and see what other perspectives might be. He wants me to not share it so that he can work with me without outside influences.
I think I share less now also because I trust him more. I trust him to have my best interests in mind. I trust him to work things through with me. I trust him to be skilled. So I don't feel like I have to normalize our therapy sessions - I don't have to be comforted by others who have survived the same thing. Because I know that he will make it so I can survive. I don't feel like I need you guys to *protect* me from him.
He has the same problem when I share with IRL friends, by the way. He doesn't mind when I talk about issues with my daughter or my life. I think he only minds when I talk about the process of therapy itself. When I talk about my relationship to him, and the issues we are working through.
Guess I was chattier than I thought.
Posted by Jen Star on June 26, 2005, at 12:45:39
In reply to Re: T comment about Babble » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on June 26, 2005, at 11:40:50
I guess I sort of feel that it's presumptuous of a T to assume that he/she is the best or only way for a person to work out problems. I like the comment one poster made about needing therapy to help move you AWAY from therapy (in most cases.) And that would mean coming to rely on other sources of support, like friends IRL and on line.
I think every society in the world knows that people (most people) do best in groups, that they are less stressed when they have other people to lean on and prop them up and help them out. And if a person does NOT have that, therapy should help them develop those social networks and grow roots, so that when they do leave therapy they're enabled to live strong and without the T.
Even if you had NOT talked to "babble" about things, wouldn't there still be 10 different people in the room? I'm speaking from my experience, but I'm wondering if you're the same way?
I mean, if I have an issue, I think about how I should handle it, what my mom might do, what my husband might do, what I might do if I was in a better mood or richer, or calmer? And if I've recently seen a Dr. Phil or Oprah show, or read a book by a certain author, I might think of what they'd recommend? What would Dr. Laura do? What would the life coaches on "Starting Over" do in that situation? That's already a huge bunch of different ideas. BUT (and a big BUT coming!) -- BUT it doesn't mean that all these ideas and thoughts completely prevent me from making up my own mind.
I think it just opens up the mind. In our world we're deluged with ideas and thoughts, and need to process it all and distill it and come up with our OWN ideas and plans. The T should help you distill all the random ideas (good, bad and ugly). He should not try to purify your thought stream to just include his own ideas and filter out every other point of view before you even get to hear or see them!
Wow...I guess I'm *cranky* about this too! I'm not sure why it strikes such a nerve with me, that other people's T's want them to be "solo talkers". Maybe it's b/c I love babble so much and like talking to you & GG and everyone else here. Maybe I just like to buck authority.
But I think there is a beauty to open-ness and the willingness to share and talk with others.
Anyway, I think it's cool & interesting to hear about different T styles. And I wish you the best of continued success with your therapy! :)
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Jen Star on June 26, 2005, at 12:52:00
In reply to Re: T comment about Babble » gardenergirl, posted by Aphrodite on June 26, 2005, at 9:14:13
Aphrodite,
your situation is very interesting. It sounds like you do have a unique and special situation with your T, and I think it's great that you found someone who can successfully use non-western techniques to help you relax & calm & de-stress!Again when I read this, though, I have mixed thoughts. On the one hand: Maybe too much interference CAN make a person fearful, mistrusting, or generally more critical of a therapist.
On the other hand, if therapy can only be successful in a bubble where the therap-EE does NOT get to hear about other ideas or techniques, doesn't it mean that the therapist and his/her methods are not that strong to begin with?
I don't know! I just think that a T who is really good and effective and confident would be OK with a person learning and reading and coming in with new ideas. He/She should be able to discuss it without getting defensive or without feeling threatened, and help you stay on track with your particular brand of therapy.
Maybe it takes several weeks of "extra" discussion just to talk over these other ideas and get past them and back on track. But life is full of interruptions and feedback and lots of information and new ideas zinging around. As humans I think we all want to learn and make sure that we're doing the right thing. I hope the t's take this into account!
Anyway, sorry for writing a novel again here. I'm glad your therapy is working for you, and have a great Sunday!
take care,
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on June 26, 2005, at 14:53:59
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
What your therapist said makes sense. But, the ultimate point is to get better - irrespective of therapy or not. The whole purpose of transference is to really understand the root of it - your hidden desires and wants in life which you are projecting. If babble helps you do the same, then isn't it more valuable than therapy itself? Because here, you get not only one persons view of it, but you get 10 people's perspective. Sometimes expecting one person to understand everything about us is really not right. You get more understanding from reading 10 people's perspective of it.
I know that ever since I started participating intensly in babble, I have had more insights thrown into myself, than I would have had even if I stuck with therapy everyday for 10 years.
Just my 2 cents. It does lesson transference, but it doesn't suppress it - in fact it helps you work through it more effectively, which is the purpose of going to therapy anyway.
For me, without babble, I would have completely collapsed and I wouldn't have had any suuport to deal with the intense issues I had with my ex T.
Posted by Tamar on June 26, 2005, at 15:24:15
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
Hmmm... I could perhaps understand his point better if you were doing traditional psychoanalysis. But the thing about once-a-week therapy is that we have to be able to make it through 167 long hours from the end of one appointment to the beginning of the next. That's a lot of taking it one hour at a time when we're feeling like sh*t.
If strong feelings arise in therapy, ideally they could be dealt with immediately. But considering the constraints of the therapeutic frame (the need to finish in 50 minutes etc), it's not always possible.
I don't think anything could have lessened my transference when I was in therapy. It's been more than three months since I terminated and I'm still transferenced up to the eyeballs.
I tend to think of Babble as a locus of support rather than actual therapy. It can be very therapeutic! But since we're not trying to be black slates with each other it's not quite the same thing as therapy.
I think he has a point, to a small extent. And maybe it's useful to think about it. But I wonder if his perspective is based on theoretical principles that belong properly to psychoanalysis and can't necessarily be rigidly applied in psychotherapy...
Just my two cents.
Tamar
Posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2005, at 21:31:19
In reply to Re: T comment about Babble » gardenergirl, posted by Tamar on June 26, 2005, at 15:24:15
I consolidated all of my replies into one post. I hope that's not too confusing. Seems like this topic hit a bit of a nerve. Should I print out everyone's replies and bring them in? Tee hee.
>>>Sleepy: “I've done different things after therapy appointments have left me with "something brewing" like leave messages on my T's answering machine, write in my journal, make art-sometimes I will share these with my T (usually)"
I haven’t tried writing. I’ve never been a journaller. But there are times when something happens and I am afraid it might “go away” before I get to talk about it, so I try to make mental lists. I might try actually writing it down. I once left a message, too. He didn’t bring it up the next session, but rather waited for me to.
>>>Messadivoce: “If I were in your shoes I might be a teensy bit put off by that remark, because I think it would make me feel helpless. As though, it's just me and him and he doesn't want anyone to step in and help me make sense of the transference. As though he's making light of it the whole thing, "it's not that bad, let's work on it" when in reality, maybe for me it would be much more confusing and painful.”
I don’t know that you are projecting. I was a little put-off, too. I think that’s why I wanted to post about it. To check my feelings. Hee hee. But I suppose if I got annoyed with him, and then posted about it, that’s exactly what he is talking about?
>>>ShortE: I don’t know if it’s good or bad, either. I do think at times when someone needs to pull it together, and for whatever reason the T is not available for that, I think Babble is invaluable.
>>>AllDone: “Do you feel comfortable calling or emailing him between sessions? If so, when you are having an intense reaction to something, maybe you could let him know and he can get the initial wave of emotions, then come post on Babble.If you were talking to IRL friends, or for that matter your co-workers, would he have the same concerns? “
I don’t always feel comfortable calling him or emailing him between sessions. After that horrible session, I really should have called him to try to get a session that Monday instead of waiting til Thursday. But I rationalized that I didn’t have the time. In fact, I may have been worried about what his reaction to blowing up at him might be. You know, fear of rejection or that he would minimize my feelings. And I don’t know what he thinks about utilizing friends IRL. I told him about calling Racer in hysterics after the birthday brouhaha. He didn’t really comment on that. I don’t think he wanted to hear from me at 11:00 p.m. in hysterics, did he?
>>>Dinah: I suppose that is a result of the difference in orientations between our T’s. Mine is definitely psychoanalytically oriented. I can't imagine mine feeling the way yours does, and that seems a bit narcissistic of mine. :(
>>>Aphrodite: I can see why your experience in therapy does not quite fit in with what many of us post about. I’m glad it is working for you, but I can see why you might have had doubts at times. I wonder if T’s don’t realize how incredibly insightful and helpful the Babblers are. Perhaps they might see it as an adjunct versus a hindrance? Because I think I come to insights here as well as in sessions. And I forget them as often, but at least here I have a record. :)
>>>JenStar: It figures you would catch me in the “good client” blues. :) I suppose I really meant that there is that pull in me, but I recognize that it’s not all that healthy. But still, it’s what makes this a conflict. So I will ask him to talk more about what he meant, and try very very hard to not let him turn it around as he ALWAYS does. And then do what is best for me.
>>>Crushed: “While I *guess* I can *sort* of see his point, I don't think it's right for you to feel like a bad client for doing therapy, as it were, outside of therapy. I mean, are you not allowed to think or write, either? I often work out lots of stuff that way, and it feels a lot like therapy to me when I do. And then when I go in to see my T, I've already worked out certain things, but it's not like we run out of stuff to work on.”
I don’t think you sound cranky, and you make some very good points. See, I knew it wasn’t just me being rubbed the wrong way by his comment.
>>>Jazzed: “I guess I'd have to know what he does and doesn't want me to share, and why.”
Oh, if only I could be sure he would answer that question. He’s not a directive person at all. And he sort of mentioned it in passing at the end of a session. But yes, it doesn’t seem realisitic to hold everything in just for him. I do see him twice a week now. But still, he’s not always going to be in my life, so having a support system seems a good thing.
>>>Daisy: ” I guess the key is to try to remember the trail...what were you thinking and feeling when you first posted and why or how did that change, if it did, by the time you got back to a session. It would be my experience that the energy and emotions would dissipate over time anyway. By writing it down I can go back and more easily remember what was happening.”
I do try to remember the trail, and sometimes even in telling the story for the first time I get things mixed up. And yes, I can see how Babble can fan the flames, too. And it’s funny, but I don’t post my own issues here all that often. I wonder if he thinks I rehash all my sessions online?
>>>Falls: “And that he doesn't want me speculating about what he was thinking or meaning, that he wants me to ask him about it - so I will know what was *really* going on. I did reduce the amount of discussion that I had (both on the board and in IMs and emails) about the details of my therapy sessions. Things are going well, so I sort of have to assume that that wasn't a bad thing.”
I think that is a good thing, too. But then whenever I ask him about his feelings and meanings and such, I almost always get it turned around on me—“What do you worry it means?” etc. Aack! I fall for it everytime! I’m glad things are going better for you in therapy as a result of your change.
“So I don't feel like I have to normalize our therapy sessions - I don't have to be comforted by others who have survived the same thing. Because I know that he will make it so I can survive. I don't feel like I need you guys to *protect* me from him.”
This sounds like real progress!
>>>Pinkeye: “I know that ever since I started participating intensly in babble, I have had more insights thrown into myself, than I would have had even if I stuck with therapy everyday for 10 years.”
I have found lots of insight here, too.
>>>Tamar: “Hmmm... I could perhaps understand his point better if you were doing traditional psychoanalysis. But the thing about once-a-week therapy is that we have to be able to make it through 167 long hours from the end of one appointment to the beginning of the next. That's a lot of taking it one hour at a time when we're feeling like sh*t. If strong feelings arise in therapy, ideally they could be dealt with immediately. But considering the constraints of the therapeutic frame (the need to finish in 50 minutes etc), it's not always possible.”
He is psychoanalytically based. I now go twice a week. But still, it’s a long way between Friday and Wednesday. I liked it best when we did Monday and Thursday. I don’t know why we switched. :(
Thanks again for all your thoughtful responses.
gg
Posted by littleone on June 26, 2005, at 21:50:09
In reply to T comment about Babble, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2005, at 23:39:45
Hi gg, sorry he's popped this on you. Does it feel rather threatening (ie the threat of the loss of babble)?
I think that if you don't have much contact with him between sessions, then you need somewhere where you can work through things a bit. Either here or in a journal or whatever. Even if the emotion has leveled out a bit when your next session comes around. It just seems too hard to stay angry/hurt/whatever for days on end. And even then it doesn't get worked out in one session, so it could be a week or two on end.
I think that the important thing for me is that I don't use babble as a crutch feelings reliever. That even if I do get comfort from here, that I use that calmness to look more closely at why I had the reaction I did. And then talk about that with my T. I think that it would be easy to use babble to relieve the anger/hurt/etc and then avoid the in depth why's.
Having said all that, I do realise there are people here who use babble that way and I'm not saying their way is wrong. I'm just saying it's wrong for me.
I don't know if that all made sense. My brain is running out.
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 8:08:19
In reply to Wow, thanks all!---long, posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2005, at 21:31:19
Posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 18:11:57
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? (nm) » gardenergirl, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 8:08:19
Hmmm, I'm not sure I can remember now. I brought it up once a long time ago, as just a concept I had been thinking about. More recently, I brought it up as a possibility. We spent several sessions (not entire, but some each time) talking about the pros and cons of doing this. At one point I told him I always felt like he was warning me off from it when he talked about the risks, etc. He found this intriguing, and actually thought I had said "warding me off". So we talked about how deepening the relationship can be anxiety-provoking for the T, too.
I asked him more recently what he might have been anxious about, and he of course turned it around and asked me what I was worried he was anxious about. Gah! I never did find out.
At any rate, we decided to go ahead with it--that it would be helpful. It was very hard at first. I was very self-conscious, like I was "supposed" to talk about certain things. I eventually relaxed, and it feels more normal now.
Long answer. sorry.
I should add that I am fortunate in that there are no financial implications to increasing frequency for me since I get counseling as part of my tuition.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 18:14:36
In reply to Re: T comment about Babble » gardenergirl, posted by littleone on June 26, 2005, at 21:50:09
I think that made sense just fine.
I don't feel threatened with the loss of Babble, per se. I can't imagine him being that directive, and if he were, I'm not sure I would follow anyway! :)
gg
Posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 18:21:15
In reply to Wow, thanks all!---long, posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2005, at 21:31:19
> >>>Dinah: I suppose that is a result of the difference in orientations between our T’s. Mine is definitely psychoanalytically oriented. I can't imagine mine feeling the way yours does, and that seems a bit narcissistic of mine. :(
And I was thinking that it didn't reflect well on mine. :) Because his insights are generally not as good as those of Babblers, and even he thinks so. lol.
Free supervision, I suppose.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 18:59:53
In reply to Re: Wow, thanks all!---long » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on June 27, 2005, at 18:21:15
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:30:36
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » Jazzed, posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 18:11:57
> At any rate, we decided to go ahead with it--that it would be helpful. It was very hard at first. I was very self-conscious, like I was "supposed" to talk about certain things. I eventually relaxed, and it feels more normal now.
>
Well, since your a T in training. I'd like to ask you a question, I hope you don't mind.Now that my T told me tonight that he's CBT, and that I "should" feel better after 12 sessions, but it might take as long as a year to ?(I don't know if he said finish), I feel at a complete loss. I shut down completely and didn't really want to talk about anything because I'm afraid I won't get anywhere, and I'll just be spinning my wheels. I know this is really negative thinking, but I can't seem to help it.
I have several issues from the past that I really need to deal with. Rape, bad therapy, two car wrecks that still bother me - not PTSD, but I don't think I ever really dealt with them. Too much stuff to just "fix" in a year or less. i"ve been through therapy b4, I know I can't do this in a year, and it scares me that I'll be left out in the cold.
I'm not sure CBT is right for this, is it? What if it comes to a year, and I'm still stuck? Then do I have to start all over again with someone else? I guess I'm just afraid of not fitting into this CBT mold. I feel depressed and sick.
Sorry to dump on you. I've felt depressed all day for no reason that I can think of.
Jazzy
Posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 20:02:04
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » gardenergirl, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:30:36
>
> Now that my T told me tonight that he's CBT, and that I "should" feel better after 12 sessions, but it might take as long as a year to ?(I don't know if he said finish), I feel at a complete loss. I shut down completely and didn't really want to talk about anything because I'm afraid I won't get anywhere, and I'll just be spinning my wheels. I know this is really negative thinking, but I can't seem to help it.Oh dear. I'm sorry his comment affected you so intensely. Did he realize? If it helps, 12 is the average number of CBT sessions, but most of the time that is for one specific problem. Those who have multiple or more complex issues usually take much longer. Not all T's carry clients long term, though. I hope you feel comfortable talking about your reaction and asking for clarification. If your T does work with longer term clients, then I suspect that even if you go to the one year point, you would not have to terminate if you are still making progress.
It's hard to estimate treatment duration early in treatment. That may be why your T gave that number, as research supports it---again for single issues or diagnoses, usually. Often a client has not disclosed all the issues at first, and therapy can keep going on as long as there is still stuff.
Although in my case, I went in telling my T that I would likely be long term. LOL. I just knew I had decades of stuff I hadn't dealt with. And we have gone over two years now and still going strong, at least until I graduate. (sigh)
Take extra care of yourself for a few days. CBT is a good therapy modality for a number of issues, and also for more complex cases. You just work through stuff bit by bit.
I hope your T is more reassuring next time you meet. Please do talk about this.
(((((jazzed)))))
>
> I have several issues from the past that I really need to deal with. Rape, bad therapy, two car wrecks that still bother me - not PTSD, but I don't think I ever really dealt with them. Too much stuff to just "fix" in a year or less. i"ve been through therapy b4, I know I can't do this in a year, and it scares me that I'll be left out in the cold.
>
> I'm not sure CBT is right for this, is it? What if it comes to a year, and I'm still stuck? Then do I have to start all over again with someone else? I guess I'm just afraid of not fitting into this CBT mold. I feel depressed and sick.
>
> Sorry to dump on you. I've felt depressed all day for no reason that I can think of.
> Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 22:09:55
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » Jazzed, posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 20:02:04
> Oh dear. I'm sorry his comment affected you so intensely. Did he realize?thanks GG, you made me feel much better. I didn't tell him how it affected me because I just completely shut down when I heard this, I didn't even hear what he said afterward. I couldn't think of anything other than, "OMGosh, how am I supposed to get all of this out, and get over it so quickly!? I can't do it!" I think I was in panic mode.
>If it helps, 12 is the average number of CBT sessions, but most of the time that is for one specific problem. Those who have multiple or more complex issues usually take much longer. Not all T's carry clients long term, though.
Okay, well I will have to ask him about whether he will stick with me for as long as it takes. I can't get into all of this stuff, and then have him terminate me. It would be just one more thing to work through. I don't want to be a chapter in the book on bad terminations!
>I hope you feel comfortable talking about your reaction and asking for clarification. If your T does work with longer term clients, then I suspect that even if you go to the one year point, you would not have to terminate if you are still making progress.
I do feel comfortable bringing it up, wish I could've brought it up today. I just shut off.
I think I can trust him, I think I can like him. He seems like a really decent guy.>
> It's hard to estimate treatment duration early in treatment. That may be why your T gave that number, as research supports it---again for single issues or diagnoses, usually. Often a client has not disclosed all the issues at first, and therapy can keep going on as long as there is still stuff.I have disclosed nothing big, and there is a lot of big stuff. He only knows I'm anxious, have social inhibitions, and stuff like that.
>
> Although in my case, I went in telling my T that I would likely be long term. LOL. I just knew I had decades of stuff I hadn't dealt with. And we have gone over two years now and still going strong, at least until I graduate. (sigh)OMGosh, did you disclose stuff easily, and early on? Do you cry? Do you feel like an idiot when you cry? Then is it hard for you to walk out of the office after crying?
I wish I had it in me to get on with the messier stuff. I'm afraid of several things....crying, I'll feel like an idiot with him and walking out. Just getting into the messy stuff, thinking of disclosing it to him has made me think of it a lot, and I don't normally do that, and it's just scary that it's all still there so visibly. And vulnerability. I just am not comfortable with feeling that.
So, when you graduate, can you still see your T if you pay? That would just be too hard to know that when you graduate you're done with therapy.
>
> Take extra care of yourself for a few days. CBT is a good therapy modality for a number of issues, and also for more complex cases. You just work through stuff bit by bit.
>
> I hope your T is more reassuring next time you meet. Please do talk about this.Thanks GG, you're a saint! I'm glad you're here, you made me feel so much better. If it doesn't look reassuring with him, I hope I can find someone more like you to work with.
Jazzy
Posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 23:11:22
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » gardenergirl, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 22:09:55
> I have disclosed nothing big, and there is a lot of big stuff. He only knows I'm anxious, have social inhibitions, and stuff like that.
Sounds like the big stuff will come out when you are ready.
>>
> OMGosh, did you disclose stuff easily, and early on? Do you cry? Do you feel like an idiot when you cry? Then is it hard for you to walk out of the office after crying?Well, I didn't tell everything big. But I did say towards the end of the interview in the first session, "Oh by the way, I should probably tell you that I was raped at age XX, but I'm pretty over it. I don't think about it much." I kind of laugh when I think of that now, because I'm sure he was saying to himself, "Sure she's over it." And it has become an important thing to talk about. But I just casually threw it in there like I was talking about where I was born or something.
I cry a lot. I'm a crier. I cry a lot a lot a lot. I used to get really embarrassed about it. Now not so much except when I start to get too snotty. I hate that part, and I hate blowing my nose in front of him for some reason. Silly I know. It's not too hard to walk out of there when I've been crying because you don't have to go back thru the waiting area...just out the door. It's kind of hard when I am still crying, though, to drive. I hit myself on the thigh (not hard) with my fist to try to stop crying until I get where I am going. I get a bit embarrassed when I go to Starbuck's though, and I have red eyes and stuff.
I did have one big shameful thing to tell him that I took several sessions to tell. I started by just telling him I had something I wanted to say but I feared his reaction. I finally got it out, and it was mostly okay. We don't go back to it much, though.
>
> I wish I had it in me to get on with the messier stuff. I'm afraid of several things....crying, I'll feel like an idiot with him and walking out. Just getting into the messy stuff, thinking of disclosing it to him has made me think of it a lot, and I don't normally do that, and it's just scary that it's all still there so visibly. And vulnerability. I just am not comfortable with feeling that.It's important to realize where you are at with trust and feeling okay being vulnerable. Regarding crying, though...my T said to me when I was embarrassed, "Anytime you walk into a room and see this many boxes of kleenex around, you have to know that crying is okay here." :)
And from my perspective with crying clients...it doesn't bother me, and I don't think they are idiots or weak or anything.
>
> So, when you graduate, can you still see your T if you pay? That would just be too hard to know that when you graduate you're done with therapy.I can't. That's the hard part. He only sees students. So it's sometimes hard to get the motivation to graduate, although therapy isn't the only reason. Neurosis is a much bigger reason, sigh. But the silver lining is I get to keep seeing him. Otherwise, we'd be looking at termination rigth about now if I were on track.
>awwww, you're sweet.
Take care,
gg
Posted by fallsfall on June 28, 2005, at 9:09:05
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » gardenergirl, posted by Jazzed on June 27, 2005, at 19:30:36
I saw my CBT therapist for 8 1/2 years. It was probably a little too long to have seen her - but when I had been seeing her maybe 6 months or so, and had crashed hard for the first time she said that she'd be happy to see me for 5 years.
That said, you might want to talk to this therapist about the advantages and disadvantages of CBT. So you can feel comfortable with whatever decisions you make.
Posted by Jazzed on June 28, 2005, at 9:16:01
In reply to ***trigger*** disclosing big stuff and crying » Jazzed, posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 23:11:22
> Well, I didn't tell everything big. But I did say towards the end of the interview in the first session, "Oh by the way, I should probably tell you that I was raped at age XX, but I'm pretty over it. I don't think about it much." I kind of laugh when I think of that now, because I'm sure he was saying to himself, "Sure she's over it." And it has become an important thing to talk about. But I just casually threw it in there like I was talking about where I was born or something.
LOL, that is funny! Just off the cuff, huh? I bet that was fodder for therapy at the next session.
>
> I cry a lot. I'm a crier. I cry a lot a lot a lot. I used to get really embarrassed about it. Now not so much except when I start to get too snotty. I hate that part, and I hate blowing my nose in front of him for some reason. Silly I know.OMGosh! Who doesn't hate to get all snotty?! And to get that way there, I'd die! I hate to blow my nose in front of anyone! Anyone! Not silly at all, I bet most women are that way. Men don't seem to care much what they do, well, I know I'm generalizing, but....you know what I mean.
>It's not too hard to walk out of there when I've been crying because you don't have to go back thru the waiting area...just out the door.
Now, that would be nice. Not so for me, and the waiting room usually has pretty many ppl in there. Too embarrassing for me. I guess if I continue, I'll just have to get over it! What's the worst thing that could happen?
>I get a bit embarrassed when I go to Starbuck's though, and I have red eyes and stuff.
Allergies, those damned allergies! LOL
>
> I did have one big shameful thing to tell him that I took several sessions to tell. I started by just telling him I had something I wanted to say but I feared his reaction. I finally got it out, and it was mostly okay. We don't go back to it much, though.Hmmmmm.....I hope you got it all worked out. Sounds serious, esp. if you can tell about rape, and then be so anxious about this. But, I know you know best.
> >
> It's important to realize where you are at with trust and feeling okay being vulnerable. Regarding crying, though...my T said to me when I was embarrassed, "Anytime you walk into a room and see this many boxes of kleenex around, you have to know that crying is okay here." :)I don't think I've seen a box of tissues in his office! Must mean I can't cry! ; ) I'll have to look next time.
> And from my perspective with crying clients...it doesn't bother me, and I don't think they are idiots or weak or anything.
That's because you're so sweet and kind. Maybe I should see a woman. I generally choose women physicians, but in therapy, because all of my relational issues are with the men in my life, I have chosen a male T. I figure I need to work it out with a man. Does that make sense?
> >
> I can't. That's the hard part. He only sees students. So it's sometimes hard to get the motivation to graduate, although therapy isn't the only reason. Neurosis is a much bigger reason, sigh. But the silver lining is I get to keep seeing him. Otherwise, we'd be looking at termination rigth about now if I were on track.
> >
>
That would keep ME from graduating! LOL. How much longer do you have?Thanks for all of your support GG, I REALLY appreciate it. I have a lot to think about.
Jazzy
Posted by Jazzed on June 28, 2005, at 9:18:10
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » Jazzed, posted by fallsfall on June 28, 2005, at 9:09:05
>
> That said, you might want to talk to this therapist about the advantages and disadvantages of CBT. So you can feel comfortable with whatever decisions you make.This will be the first thing I talk to him about next session because there's no point in getting into stuff if I feel like I won't be able to go for as long as I need it. Gosh, why did I even start this?!
Jazzy
Posted by fallsfall on June 28, 2005, at 19:58:42
In reply to Re: GG, how exactly did you ask for twice a week? » fallsfall, posted by Jazzed on June 28, 2005, at 9:18:10
Don't discount CBT. It is a very successful therapy. It works really well for a lot of people. People on this board - at this point in time - tend to be more psychodynamically oriented. But it hasn't always been that way. When I started at Babble, we discussed CBT a lot (and people didn't really know what psychodynamic therapy was).
Talk about your concerns with this therapist. Make sure you let him know that you have issues that you haven't talked about (and if you can - just give him a one word summary???) so that he can better assess whether he can help you.
The therapist and his relationship with the patient is more important that the type of therapy that is done. Keep an open mind.
Good luck! I'm so glad that you feel that you can bring this kind of stuff up and talk about it. That (I believe) gives you a better prognosis.
Posted by Jazzed on June 28, 2005, at 23:32:14
In reply to CBT » Jazzed, posted by fallsfall on June 28, 2005, at 19:58:42
> Don't discount CBT. It is a very successful therapy. It works really well for a lot of people.
Thanks falls. I appreciate your thoughts. I was just so taken off guard yesterday when he said CBT and then something about 12 appts. I just couldnt think after that, just kind of went blank.
>
> Make sure you let him know that you have issues that you haven't talked about (and if you can - just give him a one word summary???) so that he can better assess whether he can help you.He does know I was raped, he knows I"ve been in 2 bad car wrecks, and he knows I had some bad therapy with few boundaries. I just haven't been able to talk about the details with him yet. I told him I will at the next appt.
I've never even told my husband the details of when I was raped. He knows I was raped, we've talked about it, but told me that he wouldn't ever press me for details unless I was comfortable with it. I never have been with anyone, not even my husband.
>
> The therapist and his relationship with the patient is more important that the type of therapy that is done. Keep an open mind.Thanks, I appreciate that falls. Now I wish I could go sooner, and just get this all out of the way. I get too anxious in between. I know most everyone can identify with that.
Jazzy
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