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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
Isn't that weird, considering that although I don't understand it, I just concluded:
I felt safe with my therapist when I first met him.
It took five years, but then I felt trust for my therapist.
It took another five years, but after ten years with my therapist, I felt secure.
I have no real understanding of what I mean by that, although my therapist did and tried to explain it to me. But I do believe it's true.
And yet at this point in our relationship, when I actually feel more attached and vulnerable with him than ever, I *think* I'm ready to give up the plan that I've had for nearly ten years.
I think... I think...
I think it's because of my son. I was with him the other night, in a group of kids, and I really *felt* how much I love him. And the same thing happened yesterday.
I have always had trouble feeling love, at gut level. I have known I loved him, but I just have this trouble feeling it, for anyone. I don't know if anyone understands that. That for me there's a difference between loving someone and feeling that bubble of joy in the tummy that comes from feeling that love. My therapist says that doesn't make me awful, that I have troble feeling it, because I do it. I don't know.
But now I have felt that love for him, I can't bear to inflict on him what pain my plan would bring him, no matter how much pain I'm in myself.
Sooo... I think my instructions to my therapist should stand. Because in those first moments of pain, I might forget that I've given up my plan. It would be good to be safely in a hospital until they've got me stabilized on some AP's for a few days. But after that... I think I'd find another therapist. Even if I have to go through every one in my area until I find one that feels a bit right, at least. Because I think therapy is good for me, and it's what helps keep me stable.
Of course, I'm a bit afraid to hit the save button, for fear I'll be giving the fates permission for my therapist to abandon me. But I'm not doing that. It would still hurt very very much, and I still need *him*, not just a generic therapist.
Posted by happyflower on May 28, 2005, at 10:09:24
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
I think it is wonderful that you are feeling love for your son. :) It proves therapy is working with your T. I am learning to "feel" and that it is okay to "feel". But now that I am feeling, it is hard to know how to control the emotions. Could it be that you truely love your therapist? Maybe not in a romantic way, but just because you have known each other for so long? I wouldn't give up your T, just let yourself feel what you feel, let him contain it. Is there a reason you want to pull away right now? It sounds like what I do when I feel scared.
Posted by fallsfall on May 28, 2005, at 10:50:31
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
Dinah,
What an amazing post. What an amazing time for you. What a tribute to how special your son is.
I hope that this feels freeing for you. That it means that you feel the joy of the future to come.
You have worked hard, and you have learned so much. I wish I could thank your therapist myself.
I'm so happy for you,
Falls.
Posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 10:51:37
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by happyflower on May 28, 2005, at 10:09:24
Oh no, I don't want to pull away.
But I had planned to kill myself if terminated. I've had that plan for a long time, in my heart.
I think I may be willing to give it up.
I think it's probably progress. I'm not sure how it fits in wih the other progress I've made.
Posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 10:55:00
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on May 28, 2005, at 10:50:31
Posted by happyflower on May 28, 2005, at 11:00:43
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan » happyflower, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 10:51:37
> Oh no, I don't want to pull away.
>
> But I had planned to kill myself if terminated. I've had that plan for a long time, in my heart.
>
> I think I may be willing to give it up.
>
> Wow, boy did I misread your post! Please give up that plan then! It's too much like Romeo and Juliet, too sad. Your son will need you and you need him.
Posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 11:20:33
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by happyflower on May 28, 2005, at 11:00:43
Well, not Romeo and Juliet. That was about doomed mutual love.
This would have been about rejection, abandonment, rage, and loss.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 28, 2005, at 14:33:02
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
Posted by Shortelise on May 28, 2005, at 14:36:52
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
Posted by Tamar on May 28, 2005, at 16:02:40
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
Wow, Dinah, that’s amazing!
> I think it's because of my son. I was with him the other night, in a group of kids, and I really *felt* how much I love him. And the same thing happened yesterday.
>
> I have always had trouble feeling love, at gut level. I have known I loved him, but I just have this trouble feeling it, for anyone. I don't know if anyone understands that. That for me there's a difference between loving someone and feeling that bubble of joy in the tummy that comes from feeling that love. My therapist says that doesn't make me awful, that I have troble feeling it, because I do it. I don't know.Yes, I understand. I remember when I started to recover from my depression and my daughter crawled into bed with me one morning and was being particularly cute, and I thought, “I love my little girl!” And I hadn’t even realised that I hadn’t been feeling it. But it was so wonderful to get that feeling back. And no, not feeling it doesn’t make you awful, but it’s nice to feel it, isn’t it?
> But now I have felt that love for him, I can't bear to inflict on him what pain my plan would bring him, no matter how much pain I'm in myself.
Exactly. And I imagine that he feels love for you all the time.
> Sooo... I think my instructions to my therapist should stand. Because in those first moments of pain, I might forget that I've given up my plan. It would be good to be safely in a hospital until they've got me stabilized on some AP's for a few days. But after that... I think I'd find another therapist. Even if I have to go through every one in my area until I find one that feels a bit right, at least. Because I think therapy is good for me, and it's what helps keep me stable.
I think having those instructions might give you a sense of having a safety net. And I’m sure that’s perfectly OK. One day you might not need a safety net, but if you need it now, at least you have that security.
> Of course, I'm a bit afraid to hit the save button, for fear I'll be giving the fates permission for my therapist to abandon me. But I'm not doing that. It would still hurt very very much, and I still need *him*, not just a generic therapist.
Yeah, taking a risk like this does sometimes feel like tempting fate. But I’m sure your therapist won’t see it as an excuse to try anything silly. Maybe he’ll be so pleased with your progress that he’ll resolve never to leave you, because you’re a source of continuing job satisfaction!
Posted by daisym on May 28, 2005, at 20:02:32
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
>>>>But now I have felt that love for him, I can't bear to inflict on him what pain my plan would bring him, no matter how much pain I'm in myself.
<<<<I don't want to hi-jack your thread. I'm so glad you've had this epiphany and also that you feel your love for your son. I just need to tell you that your post help me clarify the calmness I've felt lately about "planning." I feel distant from my kids, like they don't really need me anymore. Like they could stand it and go on and be just fine. I didn't really realize I felt this way until I read your post. I'll have to think about what has changed and why I feel so removed.
But I'm still glad you're feeling what you're feeling. It sounds really nice.
Posted by fallsfall on May 28, 2005, at 22:01:43
In reply to Plans (trigger) » Dinah, posted by daisym on May 28, 2005, at 20:02:32
>Like they could stand it and go on and be just fine.
No, they absolutely would not be "just fine".
The world wouldn't be "just fine".
I wouldn't be "just fine".
I know that you have too, too much to deal with right now. Let some other people in the world carry some of your load for a spell.
(((((...Daisy)))))...
Posted by 64bowtie on May 29, 2005, at 3:26:29
In reply to I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 28, 2005, at 9:46:48
» Dinah »
> ...I really *felt* how much I love him.<<< Isn't that a truely wonderful feeling?
> I have always had trouble feeling love, at gut level. I have known I loved him, but I just have this trouble feeling it, for anyone. I don't know if anyone understands that. That for me there's a difference between loving someone and feeling that bubble of joy in the tummy that comes from feeling that love.
<<< I hear 'love' and 'loving' this time... Perhaps before I wasn't sure... 'Approval' and 'approval seeking' are feelings toooo, and are a lot more common...
I hear love this time coming from inside you! You may at times be feeling approval for this or that person and want to call it love... Not what I hear this time, though... I hear love, for your Son...
Let your Son know... Let him see you loving him... He'll be a parent someday toooo, and believe me, it'll be easier for him to love his kids after having a good example supplied by you...
I acknowledge that its easy for me to know how to love my kids because my Mom showed me a good example, no-matter-what! Instead of unconditional love, I feel love and loving, no-matter-what! 'Approval' and 'approval seeking' can never, ever be, 'no-matter-what'...
Rod
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:33:41
In reply to » Dinah » This time sounds like love, posted by 64bowtie on May 29, 2005, at 3:26:29
It *is* a wonderful feeling, Rod.
But I don't think it will affect my actions much. I've always *done* love with my son. My therapist has always told me that my limitations in being able to feel won't hurt him, because I've *done* love.
It's a nice reward to me to be able to feel it though.
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:39:06
In reply to Plans (trigger) » Dinah, posted by daisym on May 28, 2005, at 20:02:32
I hope you can consider that it's you who feel removed, not your kids. It might *feel* real, but that doesn't mean it is. Of course they still need you. Just imagine their sadness on their wedding day if their beloved mother wasn't around. Or the day their fifth child is born.
I understand, really, but I think our brains play tricks on us.
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:48:48
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 28, 2005, at 16:02:40
> Yes, I understand. I remember when I started to recover from my depression and my daughter crawled into bed with me one morning and was being particularly cute, and I thought, “I love my little girl!” And I hadn’t even realised that I hadn’t been feeling it. But it was so wonderful to get that feeling back. And no, not feeling it doesn’t make you awful, but it’s nice to feel it, isn’t it?
I'm so happy that you had that experience! It is nice to feel it. When I complained to my therapist, I told him it's the compensation for the hard work of loving. And I wanted it, darnit!
I'm not too worrid that my therapist would ever terminate me, unless he was moving or closing his business. In fact, I'm positive he won't. Sometimes he seems so aware of how much he means to me that he'll say things that leave my more rational side thinking he's an arrogant puffed up idiot. But my more emotional side feels comforted. Then, of course, other times he seems to forget.
The sad thing is that I can never tell him of this absolutely amazing sign of progress, because I've never told him of the plan. Doing so now would just make him angry in retrospect. There is no point to that.
I'm glad I have Babble to share this with.
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:49:12
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:48:48
Posted by Jazzed on May 29, 2005, at 9:50:28
In reply to Plans (trigger) » Dinah, posted by daisym on May 28, 2005, at 20:02:32
> >>>>But now I have felt that love for him, I can't bear to inflict on him what pain my plan would bring him, no matter how much pain I'm in myself.
>
> <<<<I don't want to hi-jack your thread. I'm so glad you've had this epiphany and also that you feel your love for your son. I just need to tell you that your post help me clarify the calmness I've felt lately about "planning." I feel distant from my kids, like they don't really need me anymore. Like they could stand it and go on and be just fine. I didn't really realize I felt this way until I read your post. I'll have to think about what has changed and why I feel so removed.
>
> But I'm still glad you're feeling what you're feeling. It sounds really nice.
After having a very bad reaction to some medication I was prescribed, I actually talked to my kids about this subject to see how they would feel, and I think it is not a good thing to abandon or reject your kids in this way. I'm not trying to judge you or come down on you here, but I was thinking of driving into the path of an oncoming truck, and the thing that stopped me was thinking about the driver, and my family. I know it was a reaction to the meds. The kids will not be okay. If you are feeling this way, you need more than ever to find a safety net, a person, or place where you can heal and get beyond this feeling, and get on the right meds. I really think it is part of a disorder and that it can be overcome. I hope neither you nor Dinah will act on this, and I hope that you will sincerely discuss the feeling or "plan" with your T.(((((hugs))))))
Jazzed
Posted by Jazzed on May 29, 2005, at 9:56:39
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:48:48
> > Yes, I understand. I remember when I started to recover from my depression and my daughter crawled into bed with me one morning and was being particularly cute, and I thought, “I love my little girl!” And I hadn’t even realised that I hadn’t been feeling it. But it was so wonderful to get that feeling back. And no, not feeling it doesn’t make you awful, but it’s nice to feel it, isn’t it?
>
> I'm so happy that you had that experience! It is nice to feel it. When I complained to my therapist, I told him it's the compensation for the hard work of loving. And I wanted it, darnit!
>
> I'm not too worrid that my therapist would ever terminate me, unless he was moving or closing his business. In fact, I'm positive he won't. Sometimes he seems so aware of how much he means to me that he'll say things that leave my more rational side thinking he's an arrogant puffed up idiot. But my more emotional side feels comforted. Then, of course, other times he seems to forget.
>
> The sad thing is that I can never tell him of this absolutely amazing sign of progress, because I've never told him of the plan. Doing so now would just make him angry in retrospect. There is no point to that.
>
> I'm glad I have Babble to share this with.I think it's SO important that you share this with him Dinah! You might have to preface it, and get reasssurance that he won't get angry with you, but it's something you need to work through with him. Are you afraid that if he knows he will try to gradually ease you out of therapy? I don't know, I just hope you never act on your plan. Have you told him you're considering hospitalization?
(((((((((Hugs)))))))))
I don't know you very well, but I always look forward to your posts. You are truly cared for, and I hope you will try to work this out!
Jazzed
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 10:05:26
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Jazzed on May 29, 2005, at 9:56:39
Yes, he knows to hospitalize me if he terminates me. I've reiterated that several times.
But I could have never told him the plan, because then it would be a threat, and it was never meant to be a threat or to manipulate.
I think even telling him in retrospect might fall into that category. Plus, he really would get angry, and all for no purpose. Since I'm ready to put the plan aside.
The only point in sharing it at this point would be to rejoice that I'm ready to put it aside. I'm not sure even those posters who've been around a long time and have known that I've clung to this plan know how much a part of my everyday background thinking it was. To be ready to let go of this important safety net says a lot about how secure I feel.
And no, I'm not afraid he'd be more likely to terminate me if I tell him. First of all because I believe him when he says that any termination will come from me, unless he moves or retires or dies. And second... I think he'd recognize that giving up the plan didn't mean it would hurt less to lose him. It says more about how I think losing him would come about. I think it says that I think it would come about in such a way that I wouldn't feel such rage that would drive the plan.
I don't know. I think I understand in my mind, but it's hard to grasp the words to describe it.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 29, 2005, at 10:28:36
In reply to Re: Plans (trigger) » daisym, posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:39:06
Daisy,
I couldn't say it any better than Dinah just did.Thinking of you,
gg
> I hope you can consider that it's you who feel removed, not your kids. It might *feel* real, but that doesn't mean it is. Of course they still need you. Just imagine their sadness on their wedding day if their beloved mother wasn't around. Or the day their fifth child is born.
>
> I understand, really, but I think our brains play tricks on us.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 29, 2005, at 10:29:32
In reply to Re: » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:33:41
Dinah,
I would imagine really feeling that love for your son must be amazingly lovely. I'm so happy for you.gg
Posted by fallsfall on May 29, 2005, at 11:16:09
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan, posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 8:48:48
>I've never told him of the plan
Really???? What reason did you give for requesting hospitalization?
You've been so open about your plan here, I just assumed that he understood this.
As always, I'm a "you should tell your therapist all about this" person. He would rejoice with you.
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 13:03:32
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on May 29, 2005, at 11:16:09
I just told him that I think I would need hospitalization when he terminated me. And I made clear I was serious. He didn't ask more, saying it was no where on the horizon.
I didn't offer more, because I didn't want something personal to me to be made into something manipulative to him.
I figured that if he remembered, the end result would be the same.
He may have extrapolated from what I said to come up with my plan. But maybe not. He's not particularly intuitive.
Posted by Jazzed on May 29, 2005, at 18:02:08
In reply to Re: I think I may be ready to give up my plan » Jazzed, posted by Dinah on May 29, 2005, at 10:05:26
> Yes, he knows to hospitalize me if he terminates me. I've reiterated that several times.
>
> But I could have never told him the plan, because then it would be a threat, and it was never meant to be a threat or to manipulate.
>
> I think even telling him in retrospect might fall into that category. Plus, he really would get angry, and all for no purpose. Since I'm ready to put the plan aside.
>
> The only point in sharing it at this point would be to rejoice that I'm ready to put it aside. I'm not sure even those posters who've been around a long time and have known that I've clung to this plan know how much a part of my everyday background thinking it was. To be ready to let go of this important safety net says a lot about how secure I feel.
>
> And no, I'm not afraid he'd be more likely to terminate me if I tell him. First of all because I believe him when he says that any termination will come from me, unless he moves or retires or dies. And second... I think he'd recognize that giving up the plan didn't mean it would hurt less to lose him. It says more about how I think losing him would come about. I think it says that I think it would come about in such a way that I wouldn't feel such rage that would drive the plan.
>
> I don't know. I think I understand in my mind, but it's hard to grasp the words to describe it.I'm so glad you're thinking of giving it up! Tears of joy, tears of joy! I think I misunderstood. I have found you to be ..... for lack of a better word, delightful! I'm sure there would be horrendous sadness for anyone if this plan transpired.
What ever happened that you decided on this plan?
Jazzed
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