![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 8:34:31
All:
I know I don't post very often and when I do I sometimes unintentionally hurt (I'm truly sorry, Pfinstegg), but I am a devoted lurker. I'm not very good at expressing the caring I feel toward the people on this board or in my real life. I think I have the details of my life but if I haven't I'll do so here. I'm in my 50s, married with with two teens, one born to me and one in our family through adoption. One lives at home and one lives nearby and attends college. I am a research scientist and run my also scientist husband's lab at a large university. I'm not in the feeling business so it might explain part of my difficulty in expression my feelings through the computer. Although I currently work with my husband and have done so off and on through my work life, I have also had long periods when I worked in other settings. My mother died when I was in college and my always emotionally distant and other emotionally abusive father remarried within a year. My daughter developed anorexia when she was 12 and the family therapy I went through with her made me know I had serious problems of my own to deal with. I am currently in the fourth year of a 4 X per week psychoanalysis. I started this thread because of all the discussions that have been taking place here about transferrence. I am the poster girl for transferrence, not just with therapists but with other people in my life. I have been plauged with a fantasy that I first developed in my early teens about a strong, handsome man who would protect and take care of me, who would make everything OK. Sometimes it included sexual elements and sometimes it didn't. I repeatedly tried to play out the fantasy IRL with college professors, coworkers, and most damaging to me, supervisors. Of course it usually ended up in a disaster for me and when the unwitting man wouldn't cooperate I turned him into an enemy and would do anything I could to distroy him. Damaging to my life for sure! I have spent most of the last 4 years replaying this with my analyst, althernately trying to get him to play along with my fantasy be my protector and hating him for refusing to do so. I have spent long periods (months!) of tearing him down and trying to distroy him. He is strong and skillful, though, and rode through this with me. I have come to realize what is probably obvious to anyone reading this, that I have been looking for a father to love, protect, and take care of me. I have also come to understand that as I adult I will never have that and need to grieve the loss before I can move on with my life. I am trying to give this fantasy up but it is very hard. I also have elements of it in my relationship with my husband, my working for him is part of my desire to be taken care of. Part of my analysis has been the intense transferrence I have had with my analyst, and it is only because I have had it that I am able to work through these issues. I don't see transferrence as something negative that needs to be minimize but as something positive that leads to healing, at least for me. When I read posts about deep fears that therapists will not return from vacation, agonies about cancelled appointments, or worries that therapists don't really care, I totally understand. I think these feelings are a vital part of therapy, because if we don't have them we can't understand why they are there, what they mean, and how those same fears play out in our real lives outside of therapy. If we look at it rationally, of course the T will come back after vacation. He or she is a professional treating a troubled patient and would never ethically just stop seeing someone. That's reality. We're not dealing emotionally with that reality, though, we dealing emotionally with all the people who have hurt or left us in the past, and of course we expect this person to do the same. In our therapies we can learn that not everyone hurts and leaves and we can learn to live our lives without those past feelings hampering us so much. At least, that is what I am learning. I am gradually moving out the shell I have been in for so long and trying out situations that I have long been afraid to be in because of my fears of being hurt. I can't say that it is entirely successful, but my T is there to support me. He refuses though, to play the fantasy parent part and tell me what a good girl I am for trying and that still infuriates me. Now though, I know what I am doing and why. I am leaving tomorrow of a two week trip to Spain with my sister. I have been to Europe many times but always with my husband to do the hard parts, like actually interacting with anyone there. This time I will have to do it by myself, without my husband. That is real progress for my. I also feel calm about a two week absence from my T, something that would have made me frantic a few years ago. We were talking about termination last week, and that topic terrifies me. He said that I can live without the real him, it's the fantasy him I can't live without. I know that is true even if I don't believe it yet. He also said, "I know it seems impossible to live without you...I mean me." I quickly asked, "is that Freudian?" and he smiled...I heard it in his vioce...and said in his analyst way.."may be", so I know he does care, in a therapist way, of course.
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2004, at 9:03:50
In reply to reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 8:34:31
Sweetie, I need to go pick up my pup, so I'll read your post in more thoroughness later. But I wanted to tell you that I very much value your presence here and have never been offended by your posts. I find you communicate very well, and I always am interested in seeing what you have to say about any of the questions I pose.
I used to feel that way about myself. My therapist used to feel that way about me. I don't think it's an uncommon feeling to have. Just hang in here and continue to give and receive on the board as much as it is useful for you to do so and I'm guessing the feelings will fade with time.
Posted by 64bowtie on September 18, 2004, at 13:54:49
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on September 18, 2004, at 9:03:50
Ms. Stone,
The crucial question I had to ask myself, which stopped the internal torment of the fantasies was, "Am I better off or worser off when I play out my fantasies?" This was never a cleverly couched assessment of my goodness or badness. It was like a business decision in its underlying objectivity. Did I do better right now today, or worser right now today, playing out my fantasies.
I won't taint this post with my testimonials. What I will do is say is that my original decision date was 24 years ago, and I sense my day to day is the best I can do nowdays. I today have no sadness nor grief since my day to day life is better beyond my expectations and beliefs, so I can't muster a tear of remorse, even aligator ones. I found freedom and happiness. ...and not by seeking "comfort" and "feel-goods". My way today is easier and less distracting and catastrophic without the seeking "comfort" and "feel-goods" I used to do.
Rod
Posted by Poet on September 18, 2004, at 14:03:42
In reply to reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 8:34:31
Hi Lucy,
<< We're dealing emotionally with all the people who have hurt or left us in the past, and of course we expect this person to do the same. In our therapies we can learn that not everyone hurts and leaves and we can learn to live our lives without those past feelings hampering us so much. At least, that is what I am learning.
It's what I am learning, too. The last two sessions have been about my fear of abandonment which is from my childhood. I don't want my therapist to be my mommy, what I want and need is to feel that someone cares about me emotional warts and all.
I hope your trip is fantastic. Send cyberspace postcards if you can.
Poet
Posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 14:29:54
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long)»Lucy Stone, posted by 64bowtie on September 18, 2004, at 13:54:49
Rod, I think it's great that you have found the solution to your problems, however some of us are still working on ours. I find your posts upsetting, so please do not post to me anymore.
Thanks,
Lucy
Posted by lookdownfish on September 18, 2004, at 16:33:34
In reply to reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 8:34:31
Lucy
Much of what you say resonates with me. I am plagued with a longing for a parent-type figure. The main difference being that my fantasy is generally (but not always) for a woman rather than a man. (I am a married woman).
What I would like to ask you is, in what specific ways are you trying to give up the fantasy? Do you believe that you can get to a point when the fantasy is destroyed, never to return. I really want to be rid of it and I am kind of sick of it taking over my mind. It sort of comes and goes. I sometimes feel I have made real progress with, and I'm ready to finish therapy. But if life is at all difficult, then the feelings come flooding back. The fantasy is like a refuge for me, somewhere for my mind to go when I'm finding life difficult, or not getting my emotional needs met. I have been processing it with my therapist, of course, and that helps because it contains the problem somewhat, but I still don't feel any closer to a solution. And I'm beginning to feel there isn't one. I guess the key point is when you say you need to grieve the loss before moving on. How does one actually do that? I don't really know where to start. Any further thoughts would be appreciated.By the way, I always enjoy your posts, and have never seen you post anything remotely hurtful.
ldf
Posted by Annierose on September 18, 2004, at 18:44:21
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by lookdownfish on September 18, 2004, at 16:33:34
Lucy -
I always look specifically for your threads, as I do identify with you and your process. I see an psychodynamic therapist at times 3x a week, now just 2x. It's interesting I choose a female therapist on purpose, as I have major issues with an indifferent mother (but harmless on all outward appearances). I, too, see the transferrance as a positive part of my therapy. I am married with 2 children, supportive husband, but find my "love" for my T as curious in so many ways.
Enjoy your European vacation!! Can't wait to chat more upon your return.
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2004, at 20:24:30
In reply to reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 8:34:31
It sounds as if we're in similar phases of our therapy. I refuse to talk termination. But I perhaps accept that I need the fantasy him more than the real him. It's just that the fantasy him happens to occupy the same space. :) And has the same really soothing voice. He's going away, only for a week. And he'll probably offer to let me call him, and I'll probably ask if he doesn't. But I feel more confidence in my ability to handle whatever crops up while he's gone without breaking down. I feel more confident that while I might feel bad short term, it's not going to last forever, and I can live through it.
I used to use the imagery of my being the blind pup to my therapist's milky mother dog. And that I had that blind pup's steady beeline progress to mom. It's interesting to watch a baby pup temporarily separated from Mom. He'll cry but determinedly make his way to where he can sense her warmth or smell her smell. It's astonishing how much strength and single mindedness can be in that little body.
Now, just maybe, I'm a bit older pup. Exploring my immediate surroundings and coming back to Mom to get a good rough ear licking. Checking around to see where Mom is if she leaves the litterbox for a while, but relaxing if I see she's in sight (or internalized sufficiently perhaps).
I refuse to entertain the possibility that I may one day leave Mom, never to return. Maybe I'll leave the litterbox. And maybe I'll go out and hunt and play on my own. But I'd like to be able to plop down next to Mom for a soothing rest once and again. Dogs seem to know their pups long after they grow up, and I often see related dogs piling up in a heap.
But perhaps our therapists handled the earlier stages differently. Mine was willing to be the good enough mother in many ways. And willing to work with my anger on those inevitable occasions when he wasn't quite good enough. I honor him for this, especially since long term transferance based therapy isn't his main focus. I even think he prefers the shorter CBT work he generally does. I think the intensity of my transference bothered him, but he did the work he needed to do to do what I needed him to do.
I always think of transference as being a sort of Chinese finger pull toy. The more I fight it in myself, the harder a hold it has on me. The more my therapist pulls back, the tighter I'm sucked in. Even third parties trying to drag me away binds me more firmly. But if the resistance is taken away, the hold is lessened. Until one day you see that you can step away any time you wish to. By fully entering the process, you speed it up. By trying to keep one foot safely on the ground, you mess it all up. Our efforts to keep safe don't equal safety. It's giving up our efforts that lead to safety. (Like bikeriding maybe? I always rode too slow and wobbled.)
All that of course depends on a decent, ethical, and competent professional being on the other side of the transference process. I'm afraid we've seen far too many lacking in ethics or competence for me to say it's *always* wise to toss caution to the wind and throw yourself into the process.
Posted by shortelise on September 18, 2004, at 22:14:48
In reply to reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 8:34:31
Lucy, thank you very, very much for this post.
ShortE
Posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 22:49:42
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by lookdownfish on September 18, 2004, at 16:33:34
> Lucy
> Much of what you say resonates with me. I am plagued with a longing for a parent-type figure. The main difference being that my fantasy is generally (but not always) for a woman rather than a man. (I am a married woman).My longing has always been for a man rather than for a woman. My mother was depressed and frequently ill, she survived breast cancer only to die from thyroid cancer 15 years later. My dad traveled frequently with work and when he was home often flew into uncontrollable rages that terrifed all of us. I started the fantasy around puberty and the fantasy figure was always male, always powerful (sometimes even God or Jesus!), and usually sexual. My analyst and I think that the fantasy involved a man because I was looking for the loving father I never had, but we're not sure why I have never had a fantasy mother figure. When I had the opportunity to pick a therapist I deliberatley chose a man somewhat older than myself. My analyst says that I unconsciously knew I had issues to work through involving men.
> I have been processing it with my therapist, of course, and that helps because it contains the problem somewhat, but I still don't feel any closer to a solution. And I'm beginning to feel there isn't one. I guess the key point is when you say you need to grieve the loss before moving on. How does one actually do that? I don't really know where to start. Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
>
You fantasy sounds so much like mine, and I also reach for it when my life gets difficult. I have processed it my talking, talking, talking about it. We have explored how it started, all the different forms it has taken, the people I have tried to play it out with, everything. The most helpful thing to me has been to talk about exactly what it is I want the fantasy to fulfill and what it would me to me if it happened. For example, I want my therapist to hold me while I cry on his shoulder. I want him to tell me that everything will be alright. Hmm...perhaps this is part of why the fantasy involves a man...I am looking for someone other than my depressed, ill, mother to make it right. Anyway, I know while the fantasy tells me that I want to cry on his shoulder, the reality is that that would be odd and akward. We occasisionally share a hug, and it is never as good in reality as I expect it to be, and I know the shoulder thing would be same. I want him to tell me that things will be alright, but he can't do that, because sometimes things are not right and he can't make them so. It's a very early fantasy, that someone will take care of you and meet all of your needs, but the reality is that adults don't have that. He is trying to make me see that I can get those needs fulfilled in the real world by combining the things I get from real people. I can cry on my husband's shoulder, for example, and he and I together can try and make things OK. My T is trying to make me see that my father will never be the father I deserved to have, and he says I need to give up on that idea and mourn that loss. Like you, I tell him that I don't know how to grieve that loss...I also never grieved the loss of my mother in a real way and I also need to do that grieving. He says that I do know how, and at some point the grieving will just happen. I'm still waiting for that. I think he expects it to happen when we start our termination process. I am terrified of termination and have asked if I can still keep seeing him once or week or so even after we stop the analysis. He says yes, hesitantly, I know he doesn't want to expect that to happen. As I said in a previous post, he says I can live without the real him, it's the fantasy him I can't live without. He says that the feelings I will have around the loss of termination are as important as any others feelings and I think he expects that to trigger the grieving. We'll see, I guess.
> By the way, I always enjoy your posts, and have never seen you post anything remotely hurtful.
> ldf
>
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2004, at 23:04:19
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 22:49:42
Funny how they're different. Mine will say everything's going to be all right, as long as I give him a framework so that he feels he can say it honestly. So if things really are going to h*ll in a handbasket and I ask him if everything's going to be all right, he'll say he can't tell me that. But if I say that what I mean by that is that whatever life throws my way, I'll be able to handle it, and that's what I mean by will everything be all right, he'll agree that everything will be fine. Or if we're having a disagreement, and I frame it so that what I'm asking is if even though we're having a fight we'll work through it and our relationship will survive, he'll say that yes, in that sense everything will be all right. Sometimes he makes me say that I'll do what I can to make sure that everything will be all right and won't rely on him to do all of it.
So again, I think my therapist is more willing to be a good enough mother and perhaps isn't trying as hard to make me give up the fantasy. He makes me work for my nurturing though. :)
It kind of reminds me of what I try to do around my son. I'm not above catastrophizing, but when I'm around him I try to both be relatively honest about what's going on and what the possible outcomes are while pointing out to him that whatever happens, everything's going to be all right in the ways that count - and being rather specific as to why that is.
But my therapist isn't an analyst and, I suppose, is more willing to gratify my infantile needs. Plus he's a big believer in reparenting and attachment theory and corrective emotional experiences.
Posted by DaisyM on September 19, 2004, at 1:04:45
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on September 18, 2004, at 23:04:19
This thread made me think about the article on grieving that was posted here a few months ago. I read the whole article carefully because I know this is what I need to do, grieve for the childhood I didn't have, and for the one I did. And then give up the fantasy of ever having unconditional love that most kids get from their parents.
My therapy has helped me to see that part of the deep sadness and pain I feel is grief. I just don't know how to get past this part. I can't seem to force myself through and I can't find the right answers in a book. It is astonishing how painful those waves can be when you get triggered.
I think my therapist is putting his emphasis on building trust because he doesn't think I will even begin to look for this level of support IRL until I really learn that it exists and is possible from mere mortals. Once I've accepted that he can hold some of this pain and not get crushed beneath it, then maybe I'll look to sharing more with some significant people in my life.
The other thing I've grown to realize is that I have different realities, based on which part of me is in charge. My reality as a mother and wife differs from my reality as a boss, which is significantly different than my reality as a therapy client. Depends on the emotional lense I'm viewing the landscape with.
It is interesting how we are all trying to get to the same place in different ways. I'm glad we have each other.
Posted by Annierose on September 19, 2004, at 7:12:52
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long), posted by DaisyM on September 19, 2004, at 1:04:45
Lucy -
You're leaving and you started an interesting thread.
My T also talks about going through the grief process and I struggle to begin that process, especially since she is still alive. But having worked through some issues in therapy, I will say I am more at peace with my mother now, less shocked over her "disconnect with real life, real emotions". But I see how these issues do come back with my own children, and I am glad to have a supportive T to work them out.
Posted by lucy stone on September 19, 2004, at 7:46:56
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long), posted by DaisyM on September 19, 2004, at 1:04:45
I'm glad we have each other and I'm also glad we each have a T that is right for us. There are so many theraputic approaches out there and the match between provider and client is so important.
Posted by lucy stone on September 19, 2004, at 7:52:02
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by Dinah on September 18, 2004, at 23:04:19
> Funny how they're different. Mine will say everything's going to be all right, as long as I give him a framework so that he feels he can say it honestly. So if things really are going to h*ll in a handbasket and I ask him if everything's going to be all right, he'll say he can't tell me that. But if I say that what I mean by that is that whatever life throws my way, I'll be able to handle it, and that's what I mean by will everything be all right, he'll agree that everything will be fine. Or if we're having a disagreement, and I frame it so that what I'm asking is if even though we're having a fight we'll work through it and our relationship will survive, he'll say that yes, in that sense everything will be all right. Sometimes he makes me say that I'll do what I can to make sure that everything will be all right and won't rely on him to do all of it.
>
> So again, I think my therapist is more willing to be a good enough mother and perhaps isn't trying as hard to make me give up the fantasy. He makes me work for my nurturing though. :)
>
> It kind of reminds me of what I try to do around my son. I'm not above catastrophizing, but when I'm around him I try to both be relatively honest about what's going on and what the possible outcomes are while pointing out to him that whatever happens, everything's going to be all right in the ways that count - and being rather specific as to why that is.
>
> But my therapist isn't an analyst and, I suppose, is more willing to gratify my infantile needs. Plus he's a big believer in reparenting and attachment theory and corrective emotional experiences.
It's possible that part of the difference is the difference between you and I. I have repeated this pattern over and over in my life in ways that have been harmful to me. One of the things I am seeking in therapy is an end to the pattern. I may be wrong, but I don't get the sense that you are looking for attachment in places other than in therapy. I get the sense that what you want out of therapy is much different than what I want. I suspect that your T would treat me in a much different way than he treats you. Do you think he would? Do good Ts have different approaches for different clients or is the approach pretty consistent?
Posted by lucy stone on September 19, 2004, at 7:55:33
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay, posted by Annierose on September 19, 2004, at 7:12:52
I hate to leave this intersting thread in the middle, but I am off to the airport for my trip to Spain. I get back in 2 weeks and I'll talk to you all then. I want to re-recommend a book that I found very, very, helpful in understanding my transference: "In Sessiion", the author I don't have time to look up right now but maybe Dr. Bob could do that Amazon link thing for it. I lent a copy to my analyst and he liked it so much he ordered a copy for himself. Right after he read it he started referring to my fantasy as the "Golden Fantasy" from the book and that has also been helpful to me. Bye all and take care.
Lucy
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2004, at 8:30:00
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 19, 2004, at 7:52:02
I think any halfway decent therapist tailors therapy for the client.
Bon voyage!
Posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2004, at 12:47:23
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long), posted by lucy stone on September 18, 2004, at 22:49:42
> >
My T is trying to make me see that my father will never be the father I deserved to have, and he says I need to give up on that idea and mourn that loss. Like you, I tell him that I don't know how to grieve that loss...I also never grieved the loss of my mother in a real way and I also need to do that grieving. He says that I do know how, and at some point the grieving will just happen. I'm still waiting for that. I think he expects it to happen when we start our termination process. I am terrified of termination and have asked if I can still keep seeing him once or week or so even after we stop the analysis. He says yes, hesitantly, I know he doesn't want to expect that to happen. As I said in a previous post, he says I can live without the real him, it's the fantasy him I can't live without. He says that the feelings I will have around the loss of termination are as important as any others feelings and I think he expects that to trigger the grieving. We'll see, I guess.
>I had a somewhat similar experience as a child. My mother is still alive, but she was often anxious and depressed. She is also somewhat narcissistic. Being a sensitive child, I experienced the void from her inability to meet my needs acutely. I still seem to long for her caring and love, to feel that security in a loving attachment. But through therapy I think I have finally learned that I continue to go to an empty well for water. That was a hard lesson to learn, and it doesn't mean that I don't still peer into that well longinly at times.
My dad is an alcoholic, also travelled a lot for business, and although he never really flew into rages, he was quite demanding. He is also narcissistic, and treated us very much as reflections of him. This meant we had to be perfect children, like little adults. My stuff related to him is an intense fear of failure and rejection.
Although I am still working on these issues and always will to some respect, I think I have started grieving over the mother issue. I don't really know how it happened, but I can agree with your analyst that if you keep working, it will. In my case, I was remembering a time when I was in the hospital as a toddler, and feeling again scared and alone. My mother would usually "visit" me, but didn't spend significant periods of time making sure I was allright. And what toddler would feel safe and secure in a hospital for eye surgery. I remember waking up with bandages over my eyes and my hands restrained because I had a bad reaction to the anesthesia (PCP/angel dust anyone? Gotta love the late 60's). I was asking an essentially disembodied voice if they would untie me, and they couldn't until the doctor gave his okay. Where was my mother? I know in my heart if that were my child I would BE there. Especially when she woke up. Now I have always remembered this incident, but for some reason, I was much more open to feeling that pain, anger, and fear recently. And I began to sob uncontrollably for awhile. It felt very different to me than other times when I've cried. It felt like grieving. It had a quality to it that felt like movement towards a healing place rather than just experiencing pain as usual. That felt kind of good. Still had the damp dishrag aftermath, but it was okay.
I don't think it's a coincidence that I have started to set boundaries with my mother. I point out to her when on the phone she shifts back to her talk when I am talking about something important and need her attention. I also have been able to tell her that I understand she is concerned about the meds I am on (an MAOI), but it is my decision, and I don't want to hear her continually saying I MUST get off it ASAP. I sometimes just need information from her (she is a nurse). Although in time, I suppose I'll get my info. elsewhere, too.
I'm glad your T honors and respects the termination process. And I'm sure it will trigger a lot of feelings. I hope that it leads you to grieve if you haven't already. I can so understand your wish for reassurance that you can still see him down the road. A lot of T's view therapy as a life long process. Sometimes you actively engage in it, sometimes you sit with where you are at and work on your own. And sometimes you need that active engagement again. I know one of the things that was stressed in our training is to make sure that even if you only get to work with someone a very short time, you wanted to make sure to give that person a positive therapy experience so that they will be more likely to try again down the road when perhaps they are ready. It sounds like you have been ready, willing, and able for some time! :)
Also, I think I am going to bookmark your origninal post on this thread. It's such a good explanation about the power and usefullness of transference. That question comes up again and again, and your post was quite eloquent. Thanks for sharing that with us!
Be well,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2004, at 12:53:42
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2004, at 12:47:23
Whoops, forgot to wish you well on your trip. Enjoy!
gg
Posted by 64bowtie on September 19, 2004, at 16:43:13
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by lookdownfish on September 18, 2004, at 16:33:34
ldf,
>
> By the way, I always enjoy your posts, and have never seen you post anything remotely hurtful.
> ldf
><<< I'm stting here in pain. I can't tell Lucy Stone why her post to me resulted in my pain. Her post included an estopal of my replying to her post. I never once used the "you" statement. I only used the "I", chiefly because I thought this was a safe place to share. Slamming the door on my fingers without cause has left me abandoned. Abandonment hurts, today and every day.
Rod
Posted by Annierose on September 19, 2004, at 17:27:27
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay (long) » lucy stone, posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2004, at 12:47:23
gg-
I really liked your last response as well. The idea of setting boundries with your mother hit a cord with me. I think I have been doing that on some level, but didn't put a label on it and now I will try to do more boundry setting with her.
That's so interesting. In therapy, the T sets the boundries (my T's are rather firm) but needs me to open myself up to her (and I really do try).
IRL, I need to set the boundries to keep my heart safe.
GG - I really enjoy reading yours posts as well. You offer such an interesting perspective as both a T in training and "client".
-Annie
Posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2004, at 1:00:17
In reply to Re: reality vs fantasay garden girl, posted by Annierose on September 19, 2004, at 17:27:27
Thanks for the kind words. Good luck in boundary setting with your mother and in other areas. It can help, but it sure can be hard sometimes!
:)gg
Posted by lookdownfish on September 20, 2004, at 5:35:21
In reply to Abandonded but not forgotten » lookdownfish, posted by 64bowtie on September 19, 2004, at 16:43:13
Rod,
I see why you are hurt by this. But I also understand why Lucy responded how she did.
I think your post came across as saying that one could just make a decision one day to be rid of distracting fantasies. If it was that easy, then that would be great. But people like Lucy (and myself) would not be spending hours in therapy/analysis if we could just decide one day to stop the fantasy. I think it is just not that easy for most people. That is why I think your post could be perceived as belittling the problem, and therefore upsetting. If this was was a message board for headache sufferers, and someone posted that they no longer had headaches because they decided that they were better off without them, then that would be unhelpful and upsetting for the other headache sufferers. I see you were trying to contribute to the discussion, but I feel it could have been phrased more empathetically.
All the best
ldf
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2004, at 7:37:44
In reply to Abandonded but not forgotten » lookdownfish, posted by 64bowtie on September 19, 2004, at 16:43:13
> Slamming the door on my fingers without cause has left me abandoned.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post(s), should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by 64bowtie on September 20, 2004, at 19:13:32
In reply to Re: Abandonded but not forgotten » 64bowtie, posted by lookdownfish on September 20, 2004, at 5:35:21
At no time and in no way did I flatten history and eliminate the 20 years of struggle that led up to that moment on that day for my big epiphany. So far, That's always how it works. Hard work for several years, all for just one moment of insight. I would never say or imply that this stuff is easy. Some of my years of struggle seem a big waste of time to me, but never easy.
Rod
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