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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 8:03:54
I've been reading a really interesting book that's been making me feel so good about my transference stuff, I hope for the right reasons.It's by Florence Rosiello and it's called "Deepening Intimacy in Psychotherapy: Using the Erotic Transference and Countertransference." The author is pretty wild and out there, but impressively honest. She admits to a lot of erotic feelings toward her patients and describes how they can be useful to the process.
I think it's helping me in several ways. One is that I'm realizing, or imagining, that I'm not alone in my feelings for my T, i.e., I'm imagining that she longs for me in some ways, too, and that's comforting. (Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I think I may be a least partially right. In any case, it doesn't really matter whether it's true, I guess.)
Another way it's helping is it's making me see how the transference can be helpful, just to bring us closer, build trust between us, which will ultimately facilitate my therapy, I suppose. I mean, even if she doesn't long for me the way I do for her, she's admitted to me that my feelings for her make her feel good, so my sharing them with her can only bring us closer.
All that said, I have a question. As some of you may remember, I gave my T a romantic CD around Christmastime, and then she gave me one back, which she regretted doing. I've since made her another one and I really want to give it to her. This CD-giving feels like a useful dialogue to me, kind of a way for me to express things to her that are hard to say in person, almost like giving her journal-writing or something. I'm not saying I think she should continue reciprocating the CD-giving, and I don't think she will, but is it a bad idea for me to give her what will now be a THIRD CD???
I suppose I will ask her this, too, but I just wanted to get your take on it.
By the by, I asked her yesterday whether she would consider terminating me because of my transference stuff (an issue that came up from the links Joslynn posted in response to Karen Kay's recent issue with her T's fantasies), and she basically said, "not on your life." That was good to hear.
Posted by lookdownfish on January 28, 2004, at 10:41:44
In reply to Interesting book and a question about boundaries, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 8:03:54
sounds like you are doing really well with your transference issues, and your therapist is cool about it too.
about the CD : when you had all the discussion about her giving you a CD and then regretting it, did she say that you shouldn't give each other gifts? Or was it just her giving you gifts that she decided was inappropriate? I would personally say she might think it is a bit too much... and there is not even the good excuse of Christmas. But I might be wrong. As an aside, I would never give my therapist anything, but she keeps very firm boundaries.
Posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 10:52:03
In reply to Re: Interesting book and a question about boundaries » crushedout, posted by lookdownfish on January 28, 2004, at 10:41:44
well, no, she didn't say anything was wrong with giving gifts. she just knew that by making me a mix cd she crossed a boundary. she didn't say it was inappropriate for *me* to make *her* a cd.
i don't really think of it as a gift so much, either, the one that i want to give to her now. it's more like, as i said, journal-writing. it's expressive of what's going on with me right now.
what do you mean by excessive? i have the same worry, but if i want to express myself, how can it be excessive? and why should i need an excuse? my "excuse" is that i want to share this with her. i didn't use christmas as an "excuse" -- it just happened to be around then. she's jewish, anyway.
sorry, i think i sound a little defensive. i really do want feedback. but i just feel a little defensive for some reason.
> sounds like you are doing really well with your transference issues, and your therapist is cool about it too.
> about the CD : when you had all the discussion about her giving you a CD and then regretting it, did she say that you shouldn't give each other gifts? Or was it just her giving you gifts that she decided was inappropriate? I would personally say she might think it is a bit too much... and there is not even the good excuse of Christmas. But I might be wrong. As an aside, I would never give my therapist anything, but she keeps very firm boundaries.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 10:58:48
In reply to Interesting book and a question about boundaries, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 8:03:54
I'm wondering if your Therapist would feel awkward about receiving another cd? If she realized her giving you a cd was a boundary crossing, I wonder if she would somehow feel guilty or wierd about getting another from you. I know therapy is about you and not her, but sometimes restraint is best.
Posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 11:04:14
In reply to Re: Interesting book and a question about boundaries, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 10:58:48
yeah, that's one of my worries, too. but it seems irrational. i mean, *why* would she feel awkward or guilty? because it would remind her that she f'ed up? she remembers that anyway.and, in my case, i have to disagree that self-restraint is good. i restrain myself way too much. i'm trying to learn to open up.
> I'm wondering if your Therapist would feel awkward about receiving another cd? If she realized her giving you a cd was a boundary crossing, I wonder if she would somehow feel guilty or wierd about getting another from you. I know therapy is about you and not her, but sometimes restraint is best.
Posted by lookdownfish on January 28, 2004, at 11:06:18
In reply to Re: Interesting book and a question about boundaries » lookdownfish, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 10:52:03
Well, Christmas might be a good time to get away with giving something to a therapist when they wouldn't normally allow it. But I'm sorry, that wasn't the case and I jumped to that conclusion.
When I say "a bit too much" (I didn't say excessive) I mean outside the therapy boundaries. I'm going on my own therapist's boundaries, which as I said, are very strict.>i don't really think of it as a gift so much, either, the one that i want to give to her now. it's more like, as i said, journal-writing. it's expressive of what's going on with me right now.
When you put it like that, as just another way of expressing yourself, then it sounds fine.
Sorry, I just didn't want you to feel hurt if she won't accept it.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 11:07:47
In reply to Interesting book and a question about boundaries, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 8:03:54
Crushed,
I seem to remember that you are married? Did I make this up? If so, I'm curious to know how you deal with your transference with your wife. I went through a similar transference episode with my therapist and am afarid I didn't handle it too well with my husband. While I never came out and said that I was in love with my Therapist, I knew that he knew. I thought about my T all the time and I guess some of this obsessing over my T hurt my spouse in some way.
Thankfully I seem to be over the transference. I know this is none of my business, but I am just curious as to how you and others deal with your transference if you have a spouse or SO you have to contend with. I found it very hard.
I was in the end able to distinguish between the love I had (and have ) for my T and the love I have for my spouse. It was a wierd process all around.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 11:11:48
In reply to Re: Interesting book and a question about boundaries » Miss Honeychurch, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 11:04:14
>
> yeah, that's one of my worries, too. but it seems irrational. i mean, *why* would she feel awkward or guilty? because it would remind her that she f'ed up? she remembers that anyway.
>
> and, in my case, i have to disagree that self-restraint is good. i restrain myself way too much. i'm trying to learn to open up.
>
>
>I guess I am putting myself in her shoes and I know she knows she f'ed up, but maybe having something tangible to remind her of the f up would be awkward. Just thinking...
Posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 11:17:41
In reply to Re: Interesting book and a question about boundaries » crushedout, posted by lookdownfish on January 28, 2004, at 11:06:18
that is so funny. i could've sworn you used the word "excessive" -- i had to go back and check -- but i hallucinated it. i guess that was my own word, my own worry.definitely don't be sorry. i'm sorry for being defensive.
i think it's a good idea for me to prepare myself for the possibility that she won't accept it, but that seems unlikely. and i actually think that would be worthwhile to go through if that were to happen. i would probably learn something useful from the pain.
> Sorry, I just didn't want you to feel hurt if she won't accept it.
Posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 11:21:34
In reply to Question for Crushed, may be none of my business, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 11:07:47
Hee hee. Nope, you remember incorrectly. I'm not married. And I am a woman.
Interesting topic, though. Not one I can speak to right now since I'm single.
> Crushed,
>
> I seem to remember that you are married? Did I make this up? If so, I'm curious to know how you deal with your transference with your wife. I went through a similar transference episode with my therapist and am afarid I didn't handle it too well with my husband. While I never came out and said that I was in love with my Therapist, I knew that he knew. I thought about my T all the time and I guess some of this obsessing over my T hurt my spouse in some way.
>
> Thankfully I seem to be over the transference. I know this is none of my business, but I am just curious as to how you and others deal with your transference if you have a spouse or SO you have to contend with. I found it very hard.
>
> I was in the end able to distinguish between the love I had (and have ) for my T and the love I have for my spouse. It was a wierd process all around.
Posted by lookdownfish on January 28, 2004, at 11:30:27
In reply to Question for Crushed, may be none of my business, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 11:07:47
Yeah, it's a bit tricky. I have a big transference crush on my female therapist. I too am a woman, just to clarify. I don't think it really diminishes my feelings for my husband. He knows I have some pretty strong feelings for her, but I have told him that it's not about being in love with her, but about the issues I am dealing with, and all the things she represents to me. He seems to understand that, but is often seeking reassurance that I love him.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 28, 2004, at 12:15:11
In reply to Re: Question for Crushed, may be none of my business » Miss Honeychurch, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 11:21:34
Posted by Rigby on January 28, 2004, at 14:49:07
In reply to Interesting book and a question about boundaries, posted by crushedout on January 28, 2004, at 8:03:54
Hi Crushed,
I think your instincts on this are good: discuss it with her and take it from there.
My hunch is that the CD giving is probably something you'll want to move past since it could be construed as a gift. I learned this the hard way as I used to do the gift thing. Not gifty gifts but meaningful ones, similar to the CD type of thing. Then I was told, suddenly, no more gifts. Why? Because it confuses the relationship. And it can make it feel too friendly. Too friendly can often times translate into a client feeling a need to take care of the therapist like one would a friend (e.g. be nice, be polite, be supportive.) So it's probably not a dynamic that I would think your therapist would want to encourage unless she thinks that each time you give her a CD something new is being learned on your end.
One thought I had as an idea would be to, instead of making her the CD, try and talk to her in your voice and words about how you feel. Maybe pick out the songs you would have picked and describe why you picked each one? I say this because I tend to hide behind my creativity (which is short story and script writing) but actually facing feelings without creative expression is a challenge and perhaps a good exercise.
Best,
Rigby
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