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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Karen_kay on November 24, 2003, at 17:09:08
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!! » Karen_kay, posted by Penny on November 24, 2003, at 15:53:47
> I found out, sort of by accident, where my former T lived, and then rode by there. In fact, whenever I was shopping in her part of town, I always half-feared, half-hoped I would run into her. I never did. I found her hubby's pic on the internet too, on his company's web site. I was so distressed about the whole thing that I 'fessed up, and she wasn't full-out angry at me, but she wasn't happy either. I never did tell her that I drove by her house, though I wanted to. I'm glad now that I didn't, b/c it probably would have freaked her out even more.
>
<<<See, this is what I'm afraid of. I tell him that I'm not honest with him. I think he's getting the wrong idea. What I mean is that I withhold information like this (ie: that I google him, that I've seen a picture of his wife, that I still get nervous when I go to therapy). I think what he hears is that I lie. But, I'm afraid if I tell him that I may have found his home number, which he doesn't give out (because patients might call him at home just to chat, or so he says?), I'll have to tell him exactly how... including all the details aobut his wife... meaning I've seen a picture of his wife... which means I again feel guilty for not thinking he has a beautiful wife...Also, he knows that I've seen a pic of his wife... AGH!!!!
> Anyway, my point is, I would be willing to bet that you're not the first patient of his to google him. Nor are you the first patient to find out where he lives (I'm assuming that he's been in the business long enough to have had a few patients). So, no, you're not creepy. You're curious. Of course...why wouldn't you be? You are opening your life up to this person, yet you don't know much about him. Why wouldn't you try to find out, especially if you are internet-savvy?
><<Right, but I wonder if I am the first to find a picture of his wife? I really feel horrible about it....And he's relatively new at this, maybe in his mid 30's? So, if I admit to finding the pic of his wife, it opens the door to making comments about his wife. Usually I would say she is lovely, but if he makes me angry in the future, I would say she is not. And I wouldn't want to do that...
>
> Just my experience. Don't feel bad for finding the info, but you'll have to follow your gut on how cool he is about you knowing personal stuff about him. How long have you been seeing him?
>I've been seeing him since February. I think I should tell him. I hate it, but what is the worst that can happen?
Famous words of the dead man.....
Posted by Elle2021 on November 24, 2003, at 22:03:07
In reply to I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by Karen_kay on November 24, 2003, at 15:30:25
You are not creepy, and not a stalker. If you drove by his house more than once, that would make you a stalker... I don't think what you have done so far is that bad. I also recognize the degree of transference you are suffering from. What I don't understand is why your T doesn't try to help. Whats the deal with him? I feel for ya Karen. You have helped me so much on here and I wish I could help you more since I can see how much this is bothering you. Sorry!
Elle
Posted by mair on November 24, 2003, at 22:09:32
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by Karen_kay on November 24, 2003, at 16:51:59
You know of course that seeing where he lives and even what his family is like isn't going to bring you any closer to a normal family. I also think that convincing yourself that you could learn alot by discussing this with him is a little bit of a rationalization. My guess is that what's driving you most is normal curiosity, not anything of deeper meaning.
You know the guy, I don't. But I think regardless of how wonderful he is about letting you discuss anything, he, like most people, values those boundaries as well.
Mair
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 24, 2003, at 22:19:24
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by mair on November 24, 2003, at 22:09:32
You are so not creepy! You have a healthy curiosity! I have googled my therapist hundreds of times thinking maybe the next google will show information I don't already know. It never does however...
My advice is NOT to tell him about any possible drive bys. Go ahead and do the drive bys by all means, but don't tell him about them. Even though he should expect this curiosity, he still might get freaked out by it. I would play it safe for now.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 25, 2003, at 0:24:47
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!! » Karen_kay, posted by Elle2021 on November 24, 2003, at 22:03:07
I copied and pasted this paragraph from an article I read for you. It talks about therapists who purposely let and encourage transferrence for theraputic reasons. The full article is at:
http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Articles/Transference.htmHope it helps. Elle
Harmful Patterns. Transference reactions are caused by unmet emotional needs, neglect, seductions and other abuses that transpired when you were a child. In some forms of psychotherapy, a therapist will intentionally create or allow transference to form. When done properly, this helps a therapist to understand and find a connection between the patient’s past and how the patient misreads the present and may react ineffectively. Once you discover a transference pattern, you can chose to respond in terms of what is really happening instead of what happened 20 or 30 years ago. People who don’t recognize the difference between past and present can end up in the same messed–up relationships over and over or with the same problem over and over.
Posted by DaisyM on November 25, 2003, at 0:52:32
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by Karen_kay on November 24, 2003, at 17:09:08
<<<See, this is what I'm afraid of. I tell him that I'm not honest with him. I think he's getting the wrong idea. What I mean is that I withhold information like this...
>>>>I think you are using all of this to avoid the really hard, painful issues you've uncovered. It is "easier" to keep the discussion on him, instead of your dad, and your memories. I know, I use my own "stuff" to do this.
I wouldn't tell him about driving by, I wouldn't actually do it, if you haven't already. Curiosity is normal, but using it to beat yourself up with makes me think that you are using it as a defense. You "know" this is going no where...so ask yourself this: If you are absolutely FORBIDDEN to talk about your crush and all related activities, what would you talk about? You only get one line about the weather, BTW...
Forgive yourself if you feel you've crossed a line and move on. Allow for "normal" curiousity. But stop avoiding the REAL ISSUES.
Not that I don't enjoy most of your very descriptive posts-- walking up the stairs today I just about laughed out loud thinking about what you would be doing!
-D
Posted by lookdownfish on November 25, 2003, at 3:13:05
In reply to I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by Karen_kay on November 24, 2003, at 15:30:25
I don't think you're creepy. But I agree with some of the other posts, I wouldn't confess to driving by.
My therapist works at home, so of course I know exactly where she lives and I'm often tempted to take a short detour down her street just to feel close to her. I usually manage to resist, but I have done it. I did say to her once, it takes me a lot of effort not to drive down your street. So she knew what I was going through, without me actually confessing, so it didn't sound quite as bad as it was. Maybe you could try a similar approach? Some deceptive honesty :)
Posted by joslynn on November 25, 2003, at 8:34:34
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!! » Karen_kay, posted by lookdownfish on November 25, 2003, at 3:13:05
Karen, this probably doesn't help, but maybe the following driveby story may make you realize you are not alone.
This doesn't involve therapy, it involved a man in my town who I was sort of involved with and probably addicted to (I think I've had love addiction tendencies in the past). Anyway, this guy lived only a few blocks away from me. After things ended with us, I felt compelled to know what he was doing, even though I was pretty much the one who ended things by setting a boundary he didn't like. Still the compulsion was there, and knowing where he lived made it so tempting.
However, I refused to drive by his house. That was a little rule I made for myself. Well, to get around this rule, I would drive down a street that was parallel to his instead. At one point on the street, there was a connecting road to his street (picture an H shape), and if I looked down it I could see a glimpse of his house.
Soooo...while driving down the parallel street rationalizing to myself that it was NOT a drive by, I would quickly whip my head in the direction of his street when I came to the connecting street, nearly driving off the road and killing myself and all others in my path in the process. (I had to really crane my neck to get a glimpse of his house and to see if his car was there.)
All the time, I convinced myself that I was not doing a drive by, because I wasn't technically on his road. Thankfully, he moved (not because of me!).
Posted by joslynn on November 25, 2003, at 8:43:57
In reply to A driveby story, posted by joslynn on November 25, 2003, at 8:34:34
No pedestrians or squirrels were harmed in my drive-bys.
Posted by zenn4 on November 25, 2003, at 10:45:47
In reply to I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by Karen_kay on November 24, 2003, at 15:30:25
Having curiousity is natural. Good or bad, I know alot of information about my pdoc and former therapist. I think that's because I'm having a real relationship not just a relationship in my head, as I usually do. It's no longer abstract. I do not think you have crossed any lines, but perhaps if it becomes compulsive/obsessive than that may present a problem for you. And you may need to look at that, but I wouldn't feel bad about wanting to know. There is a certain amount of intimacy in a therapuetic relationship - but in the right ways. I don't know if telling him or not would be helpful. Not telling him may compound your need for authenticity and reality. I always think, no matter what, honesty is the best policy. Without it, they can't really help you.
Posted by sadmom on November 25, 2003, at 13:16:01
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!! » Karen_kay, posted by zenn4 on November 25, 2003, at 10:45:47
I drove past my therapist's house once during my first year with her. I worked nearby, so I couldn't resist the urge. The day I drove past, I suddenly became mortified ... what if she saw me as I drove past? So I only looked from the corner of my eye. Once I drove past that one time, I've never had the urge again.
Posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 14:03:34
In reply to Re: I'm creepy.. Help!!, posted by sadmom on November 25, 2003, at 13:16:01
So, I just got back from seeing him (and he looked good). And, of course I shook my rump. And he pretended to be my daddy, and talked about how he was sorry for the things he did to me. And for a second I thought I might cry. So did he. But, I said I was just pretending. When he didn't buy that I told him they were tears of anger for making me sit through his BS, my dad would never say he was sorry. He certainly didn't to my sister, only made her leave. Anyway, I didn't way a word about me being "creepy", and no matter how much you say I'm not, I still think I am. I mean his wife's name is listed under her maiden name. I think this sounds kinda creepy if I tell him how I found out where he lives, even if it was a accident. Besides, these *accidents* tend to happen to me a lot when I have a fixation such as this. I tend to find out where people live so, this is a habit I have and I need to break this habit.
After finishing my session, I decided to go ahead and drive by. But, as I turned down the road, I turned around and booked it out of there. So, I resisted the urge. I have decided not to invade his personal life like that, as much as I'd like to (not invade his life, but be part of it). I just want a daddy!! Wahhhh!
Karen
Posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 14:10:11
In reply to A driveby story, posted by joslynn on November 25, 2003, at 8:34:34
> Karen, this probably doesn't help, but maybe the following driveby story may make you realize you are not alone.
><<<Oh!!! This does make me feel SO much better!! I really thought that I was the only possible non-stalker doing drivebys or that I may very well be a stalker. The only problem is that Mine are not people I have relationships with, I could care less what they are doing. I just feel like I need to know what *normal* people do, what a normal person's house looks like, what a normal family does... Maybe I could use a former example to bring it up to my therapist...
But, your tale was both reassuring and entertaining. Thank you so much for putting my mind at ease. The only problem is that I go to lengths to find out where they live.. That, I feel, is a problem. Well, maybe not great lengths, sometimes they tell me, sometimes my friends know, sometimes I see their car, ect....
Karen
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 25, 2003, at 15:43:23
In reply to Follow up, posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 14:03:34
Karen, all I want is Daddy too. I am told on a regular basis however that I need to become my own mother and father. God I hate hearing that! No I don't. What I need is a daddy who tells me he loves me.
I'm 34 and still dwelling on this...
Posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 17:55:06
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 25, 2003, at 15:43:23
> Karen, all I want is Daddy too. I am told on a regular basis however that I need to become my own mother and father. God I hate hearing that! No I don't. What I need is a daddy who tells me he loves me.
>
> I'm 34 and still dwelling on this...
<<<<My therapist is trying to reparent me at this point. And he told me today that it is possible to find a different father, to take over for your other father, hence a father figure (AKA a priest, father in law, ect). We argued a bit today because I didn't want to talk to him. I accused him of not caring about me, which I'm fairly certain is true. He was annoyed because he thought I was referring to my crush on him. In reality I meant as a daughter. So, the discussion started about Him being my dad,not someone else. I wasn't keen on the idea of finding yet another father at this point. And we've already discussed me calling him daddy (he says dad is ok, daddy wasn't but after some persuasion I talked him into it being OK) Sheesh! Sometimes, in hindsight, I realize how immature I actually sound. Or, maybe just how scared and lost I am. Yes, I believe the latter works to my advantage so I'll go with that one :)
Posted by DaisyM on November 25, 2003, at 19:58:28
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 17:55:06
Wow,Karen, it sounds like you did good work today. That must have been a hard discussion, plus realizing that what you are curious about is "normal." It makes the upcoming Holidays just that much harder, huh?
Posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 20:31:04
In reply to Re: Follow up » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on November 25, 2003, at 19:58:28
> Wow,Karen, it sounds like you did good work today. That must have been a hard discussion, plus realizing that what you are curious about is "normal." It makes the upcoming Holidays just that much harder, huh?
>
>
<<I let him do most of the work today. I just mostly felt stupid. And I hate feeling stupid. Or, should I say I felt needy and clingy. And, the conversation that *we* had, he had. He pretented to be my father. And he said he was sorry. And it was nice and good to hear. But IT wasn't real. Because HE isn't my father. So, in a way, it was nice to hear things that a father would say to a daughter, but again, it only brings me back to my fantasy world that I constantly live in. And that, my friend, is my biggest problem. I tend to avoid things. I think if my clothes look nice, if my hair looks perfect, if I look put together, if my house is spotless, if I drive a nice car, if I have good grades, if I look like I have it together THEN people won't know just how much I am falling apart. And, I tend to regress into my own fantasy world as well. I can talk myself into forgetting how bad things are. If I throw my bills away, I forget they exist. If my shrink is reparenting me, I can talk myself into believing that he is in fact my father. If I forget that my dad touched me, then it didn't even happen... And so it goes.... My whole world is just fantasy and make believe and I control what happens.. But, I don't want to wake up to reality. Because in reality I get hurt. And in reality, I'm not always in control. And, in the real world, I get hurt. And I really don't like to get hurt. Oh, why don't I tell my shrink this crap??? I might actually accomplish something if I did, you know it......
As for the holidays, well everything didn't work out exactly as I planned so I may just stay home by myself. Just to spite my boyfriend. I'm horrible, I know... I have some school work to catch up on anyway.. No time like the present. And I could do without seeing my mother for a while. But, I do miss my sisters a whole lot :( I could do without traveling out of state...
Posted by DaisyM on November 25, 2003, at 22:13:54
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 20:31:04
Karen -- PRINT OUT YOUR LAST POST AND TAKE IT WITH YOU to your next session!!!!
You are so articulate and clear here - so much you say is the hard stuff. The real stuff. It can't be easy to type all this. You've obviously been honest with yourself about all of this. Life doesn't have to hurt. I have done and do, everything you listed -- being perfect is what I do best. It sounds like for a long time you haven't had memories of stuff, but I have. I choose to ignore them, until *they* refused to be ignored anymore. The reasons it all came up are complicated but i find myself wishing I had dealt with this in my 20s, not at 40.
You're strong. You will get through it. There is nothing wrong with humor, BTW. It helps relieve the stress.Somehow being on my own for Thanksgiving sounds pretty inviting. Pretending to be OK for family is so hard...
-D
Posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 6:57:04
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by Karen_kay on November 25, 2003, at 20:31:04
Absolutely, bring your post and read it to him.
Your post is wonderful and honest.
Posted by Karen_kay on November 26, 2003, at 7:39:41
In reply to Re: Follow up » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on November 25, 2003, at 22:13:54
> Karen -- PRINT OUT YOUR LAST POST AND TAKE IT WITH YOU to your next session!!!!
<<<I did.. and I will read it. But, I'm not sure if the Perfect Client would belong to a message board, so I'll write it in my journal. Another thing that scares me is that he'll say, "Well, you're not perfect." I know I'm not perfect but I try so hard to uphold the illusion. I'm not ready for it to crash just yet. I'm going to go through some old posts as well and print them out to let him read. I don't think I'm read to say them. I'll try to make him read them. In the past though, when I've tried to make him read something I've had a hard time saying he has refused. I take that as him saying I don't care. So, I just don't share the info. We'll see what happens. I'm fairly certain he knows all of this by now though.
> You are so articulate and clear here - so much you say is the hard stuff. The real stuff. It can't be easy to type all this. You've obviously been honest with yourself about all of this. Life doesn't have to hurt. I have done and do, everything you listed -- being perfect is what I do best. It sounds like for a long time you haven't had memories of stuff, but I have. I choose to ignore them, until *they* refused to be ignored anymore. The reasons it all came up are complicated but i find myself wishing I had dealt with this in my 20s, not at 40.
<<I am glad that I started dealing with this now, instead of later. My GP suggested I start seeing a therapist when I told him I SI (which I haven't in over 3 months).. So, it started from constant anxiety, and other issues, especially the fact that I saw a lot of my mother in myself and that really scared me. But, what at first glance appeared to be psychosis is now quite possibly PTSD (which sounds a lot better to me)...It is not really that hard to admit these things here, because no one knows me. And, I already know it about myself. It is hard to admit these things to my therapist. I just don't feel so "perfect" if I admit that I'm not, you know?
> You're strong. You will get through it. There is nothing wrong with humor, BTW. It helps relieve the stress.Somehow being on my own for Thanksgiving sounds pretty inviting. Pretending to be OK for family is so hard...<<I know, it may not be so bad being alone for Thanksgiving. I still may end up seeing my sister who lives an hour away. If I do end up going, I would only see her for a day. The problem is, my boyfriend. If I go see her, I ruin her plans of going to see my mom. So, I don't want to mess up her plans. I'd rather lie to her and say I'm going with my boyfriend so she can see my mom and other sister than only see her for a day. And, I don't feel like putting on the "stupid, happy face" for my boyfriend's family. I feel like he's jerking me around on purpsoe just so I'll go with him. Forget that! I'll stay home alone and eat rice:) I'm stubborn!
Thanks Daisy, so much hun!
Posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 17:18:00
In reply to Re: Follow up » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on November 26, 2003, at 7:39:41
On Getting your therapist to read stuff:
My first therapist loved it when I journalled and gave her the journalling. I gave her 1 - 5 pages every week. I went through 12 folders for my chart. She read every word.
My new therapist won't take anything from me to read later (he told me that he would never promise to actually read it). He won't read anything I give him in the session either (he says it makes me not "present" in the session). He can tolerate if I read something short in the session (at least then he can see my emotions and we are focusing in the same thing). I am trying to write less and be more spontaneous (which is really hard for me). He is trying to accept that sometimes getting it in writing at the time is worthwhile.
Why shouldn't the Perfect Client use an Internet Board? I, a Perfect Client, want to learn everything I can so I can be more Perfect (does that make me a member of the "Perfectest Client Club"?)
Posted by biogurl on November 28, 2003, at 11:06:01
In reply to A driveby story, posted by joslynn on November 25, 2003, at 8:34:34
This doesn't involve therapy, but it involves my biological father (whom I've never met). A few years ago I finally found out his name from an older cousin of mine. I became very curious about him (afterall he was my sperm donor). I searched for his name in phonebooks (both on-line and off) but he was unlisted(probably so that I couldn't contact him). Finally, I came across a site where you could pay something like $10 to do a public record search (I searched utility bills). I found his name and address and have driven by his house numerous times. I don't have the courage to actually stop by his house even though I would like to speak with him. I'm 23 now and will be graduating college in May and will get married and begin having children soon, so I would like to know if there are any serious genetic illnesses that I should be aware of. When I was born I had pneumonia and was life flighted to another hospital where I remained very sick for 3 weeks. My father came to visit me once and then never came back again. So for that I dislike him, he's an irresponsible person that doesn't deserve my love. He did me a favor though by leaving. My mom married a guy that adopted me and has treated me as his own (including sending me to a private college that he can hardly afford). Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks
Posted by Karen_kay on November 29, 2003, at 16:23:02
In reply to Therapists reading stuff you bring in » Karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on November 26, 2003, at 17:18:00
> Why shouldn't the Perfect Client use an Internet Board? I, a Perfect Client, want to learn everything I can so I can be more Perfect (does that make me a member of the "Perfectest Client Club"?)
<<If I were a Perfect Client, then I shouldn't need any more help other than him. Also, I should get his permission first (or at least see if he thinks it is a good idea). Also, I should let him read what I write. And, I should be telling him the things that I tell people on here. I should be as honest during sessions as I am on here. And, I don't want him to know just how much I think about therapy. It just might scare him. It should scare me. I just want to "get better."
Posted by Karen_kay on November 29, 2003, at 16:24:36
In reply to Re: Therapists reading stuff you bring in, posted by Karen_kay on November 29, 2003, at 16:23:02
Posted by crushedout on November 29, 2003, at 18:09:12
In reply to Re: Therapists reading stuff you bring in, posted by Karen_kay on November 29, 2003, at 16:23:02
> <<If I were a Perfect Client, then I shouldn't need any more help other than him.
karen, i hope you won't mind me saying this, but...
Eeek, this is definitely not true. i don't think your t would want you to depend SOLELY on him. in fact, he'd probably be happy that you have additional support.you also don't have to ask his permission to engage in something like this board.
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