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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Loops on August 9, 2008, at 19:44:42
Hi all -
I recently had some quite severe stress in my life, and my balance emotionally was affected. I've been 80% recovered from previous anxiety and depression using a very high fat low carb diet, but still feel a little out of wack.
Anyway, I decided to do a complete testing of the orotates taking together.
I am taking lithium orotate (2 pills a day), magnesium orotate (only the hans nieper brand - 6 pills at least a day), potassium orotate (1 pill), and calcium orotate (2 pills). Also zinc orotate 2 pills a day. I also take a multivitamin and extra B complex and vitamin C. Also cod liver oil and fish oil. This other stuff I always take anyway.
I also gave up eating cheese as I was eating a lot of it and now I'm pretty sure the huge amounts of calcium in it was not doing much for my state of mind.
In the past I always took lithium orotate with something else - SJW for example, so I never got the 'feeling' of lith orotate on its own.
Well - I had strange reactions. Initially I felt alternating downs with ups - which was odd, because the lithium is supposed to be balancing.
I was also initially taking an inferior brand of magnesium orotate (kal). I now think this one doesn't work as well as the Advanced Research brand.
It's been 3 weeks, and OMG, I feel amazing all of a sudden. Like, COMPLETELY relaxed and at ease. I haven't felt like this EVER, although sometimes on low-carb I feel kind of like this.
The strangest thing is, I started to get more motivation to do things. I usually swing from being motivated to just not wanting to get off of the computer.
I really didn't expect to get motivated on lithium orotate. At the most I expected it to balance me out a bit.
I hope this success continues.
I also was thinking about the magnesium orotate. I have always taken magnesium, but got diarrhea quite easily. Also the cheese excess probably stopped me absorbing most of it!
Anyway these Mg orotate pills only have like 30mg of elemental Mg in them each, but somehow they are darned effective - and NO loose stools for me, even if I take a lot of them.
Loops
Posted by JLx on August 18, 2008, at 17:14:28
In reply to Wow - the orotate minerals, posted by Loops on August 9, 2008, at 19:44:42
Hi Loops, this is interesting. I take magnesium orotate, bulk powder that I got from Beyond a Century, but have not tried other orotates. I haven't noticed anything different about magnesium orotate, but I like it because it seems sort of neutral, not sedating. I also read that it's particularly good for the heart. I put mine in capsules myself and usually take 2 at night, which gives me about 140 mg of elemental magnesium.
JL
Posted by Loops on August 18, 2008, at 17:34:23
In reply to Re: Wow - the orotate minerals » Loops, posted by JLx on August 18, 2008, at 17:14:28
Hi JL -
I take other forms of magnesium as well, but the orotate form is the only one that doesn't give me any loose stools. Citrate is the absolute worst for me - I can only tolerate a very small amount - it just seems to go straight through. Not so with the orotate. And I actually feel like it's working! I never understood what people were going on about when they said it made them relaxed and at ease. Now I do.
I am still doing really well with the lithium orotate - still 2 pills a day and I have noticed a gradual improvement still. I am dreaming an awful lot at the moment which is usually a sign of elevated serotonin for me. But I have not had the manic craziness I got with things like SJW - just calmness. I also seem to be a lot more at ease socially - just more chilled out generally. Also it has been easy to keep my wine drinking habit to a glass a day or less.
I also wonder if taking large amounts of magnesium over a period of time depletes lithium in the body. The web-site acu-cell.com states magnesium as being antagonistic to lithium - but it doesn't work the other way round. Lihtium can 'fill in' for magnesium to a certain extent (much like taurine I would think) but won't displace it if it is there. That's my understanding anyway. If this is true then it's all good.
I also got over some problems I had with taking magnesium before - I had ongoing bouts of crazy heart rhythms and thought it must be not having enough calcium to go with the magnesium - but then I discovered I was probably low in copper - my multi didn't have any (deliberately). I was always wary of supplementing any copper, but I noticed that the arrhythmia occurred when I wasn't eating nuts (which are a rich source). As a large proportion of my diet is meat and fat, when I wasn't eating a lot of pork, liver or nuts or lots of greens I would get the arrhythmia.
So that's that sorted. I have also found that when taking the lithium orotate I can tolerate things like fish oil much better - these things that always had a positive effect on me, but sometimes would be unbalancing are now easy to take.
I am also taking the calcium orotate (I am comfortable with that as it only has 51mg of elemental calcium per tablet) and have noticed that a knee injury I have had for a year from playing too much tennis is finally healing up! Apparently it really helps the cartilage.
I would really recommend this stuff to people. It takes awhile to really kick in - and initially I was going to give up on it because I did feel a bit 'out of it' the first week or so, even on 2 pills - also initially I felt a little bloated with water retention, but that soon went away.
And I would DEFINITELY recommend the lithium orotate/magnesium orotate/zinc orotate combo (taking them all). The zinc orotate, although it states it is 60mg, only contains 9mg elemental zinc per pill. The bottles should be better labeled.
Loops
Posted by JLx on August 27, 2008, at 14:25:15
In reply to Re: Wow - the orotate minerals, posted by Loops on August 18, 2008, at 17:34:23
Hi Loops,
Sorry for the delay in responding.
Magnesium citrate has the same effect on me, the most likely to produce diarrhea.
>I never understood what people were going on about when they said it made them relaxed and at ease. Now I do.
Cool. :) I'm thinking that I'm not taking enough at this time. I ran out of mg taurate and have to get some more. I usually get it from Vitamin Shoppe. I've got an order coming from iHerb tomorrow that has mg glycinate in though.
> I am still doing really well with the lithium orotate - still 2 pills a day and I have noticed a gradual improvement still. I am dreaming an awful lot at the moment which is usually a sign of elevated serotonin for me. But I have not had the manic craziness I got with things like SJW - just calmness. I also seem to be a lot more at ease socially - just more chilled out generally. Also it has been easy to keep my wine drinking habit to a glass a day or less.Stupid question maybe but is lithium orotate for depression or bipolar? I'm wondering if it would help me. I'm getting a little more down than usual -- from my new diet, I suspect. Lithium orotate is something I've never tried.
> I also wonder if taking large amounts of magnesium over a period of time depletes lithium in the body. The web-site acu-cell.com states magnesium as being antagonistic to lithium - but it doesn't work the other way round. Lihtium can 'fill in' for magnesium to a certain extent (much like taurine I would think) but won't displace it if it is there. That's my understanding anyway. If this is true then it's all good.I've become little suspicious of the information on that site. Why do they have so much info you don't find anywhere else? I recall Larry Hoover giving it a bad grade once. But if it's true, it's interesting. Are there downsides to taking lithium orotate if you don't need it?
> I also got over some problems I had with taking magnesium before - I had ongoing bouts of crazy heart rhythms and thought it must be not having enough calcium to go with the magnesium - but then I discovered I was probably low in copper - my multi didn't have any (deliberately). I was always wary of supplementing any copper, but I noticed that the arrhythmia occurred when I wasn't eating nuts (which are a rich source). As a large proportion of my diet is meat and fat, when I wasn't eating a lot of pork, liver or nuts or lots of greens I would get the arrhythmia.
Yeah, that makes sense. There's potassium and sodium in the mix too.
> So that's that sorted. I have also found that when taking the lithium orotate I can tolerate things like fish oil much better - these things that always had a positive effect on me, but sometimes would be unbalancing are now easy to take.That's the interesting thing about these kinds of interventions, they're often dependent on other things to work. I recall trying tyrosine when I was magnesium deficient and feeling just terrible, mean and anger prone. The same reaction I had to Wellbutrin. Now I can take tyrosine without that effect.
> I am also taking the calcium orotate (I am comfortable with that as it only has 51mg of elemental calcium per tablet) and have noticed that a knee injury I have had for a year from playing too much tennis is finally healing up! Apparently it really helps the cartilage.
I may have to look into that kind. I may need to take a little calcium after no longer eating dairy.
> And I would DEFINITELY recommend the lithium orotate/magnesium orotate/zinc orotate combo (taking them all). The zinc orotate, although it states it is 60mg, only contains 9mg elemental zinc per pill. The bottles should be better labeled.What brand are you using? Iherb on their site says the lithium orotate Nutrient Carriers Incorporated, Advanced Research brand is incorrectly labeled. http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=6766&at=0
I just ordered from iherb but could order again as they say they are having a 99cent shipping special from now until Aug. 31.
JL
Posted by Loops on August 30, 2008, at 10:19:04
In reply to Re: Wow - the orotate minerals » Loops, posted by JLx on August 27, 2008, at 14:25:15
Hi JL -
yes that is the type I"m taking. I'm actually back to taking 1 pill a day because I noticed after a full 2 weeks I was sitting too much and losing a bit of motivation. 1 pill works very well for me right now. This is amazing because when I've taken it in the past I had to take the full 3 a day to stabilize my moods.
Yes the acu-cell website is a little strange. For isntance it says that niacin/amide is antagonistic to magnesium - which put me off niacin. Yet Hoffer uses very large doses with great success - if it antagonized Mg to any extent I'm sure there would have been bad repercussions for his patients.
Loops
Posted by Niniva on September 19, 2008, at 10:25:40
In reply to Re: Wow - the orotate minerals, posted by Loops on August 30, 2008, at 10:19:04
Just a quick note related to nutrition: Hypocalcimia causes depression and high magnesium intake inhibits calcium absorption. If you are experiencing improved mood with less magnesium, you may be keeping your calcium too low.
Posted by Loops on September 20, 2008, at 7:27:19
In reply to Re: Wow - the orotate minerals, posted by Niniva on September 19, 2008, at 10:25:40
Hi -
calcium intake is definitely not too low. In fact I have to keep it in check to feel good. I eat quite a bit of cheese sometimes, and when I don't eat that, I do take calcium along with magnesium. I feel very bad if I get too much calcium and seem to lose the benefits of magnesium. I still take a lot of magnesium otherwise my insomnia comes back full force.
But yes I agree both minerals are important.
Posted by Loops on April 28, 2009, at 10:04:20
In reply to Re: Wow - the orotate minerals, posted by Loops on September 20, 2008, at 7:27:19
hi all -
well I am totally perplexed about my recent experiences. Was doing very well with the lithium orotate although I have gained some weight, but that could be anything although I haven't changed my diet.
The thing is, it seems now whenever I take the lithium (one tab only a day) I develop awful lower back pain - so bad I have to take ibuprofen. If I skip taking the Li the pain goes away. What on earth is up with this? I'm only taking 4.9mg elemental Li a day, along with plenty of magnesium, and this really shouldn't be having any side effects.
Can anyone help me on this? I was getting so much done on the lithium orotate as opposed to just procrastinating all day long so I don't really want to stop them. However the weight gain and back pain is very disturbing. Anyone have any insights?
Thanks
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2009, at 7:05:50
In reply to Update on lithium orotate with questions, posted by Loops on April 28, 2009, at 10:04:20
The moment you described your symptoms, I immediately considered kidney problems. There have been no human studies to consider, but rats develop serious kidney problems on lithium orotate, which are worse than those from lithium carbonate.
I suggest you see a doctor for routine kidney function tests, like BUN and creatine clearance.
It's up to you if you want to disclose the lithium orotate exposure up front, but I'd disclose it for sure upon abnormal findings. If you check out okay, I'd go on a treatment holiday period.
I wish you the best with this. I hate it when someone develops problems with something that's working.
Lar
Posted by Loops on April 30, 2009, at 7:39:34
In reply to Re: Update on lithium orotate with questions » Loops, posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2009, at 7:05:50
thanks Larry -
for the time being I've stopped the lithium. I will go and ask for some tests at the docs. I'll be taking taurine meanwhile as that seems to work quite well, along with my zn and mg and b complex etc.
I find the lithium orotate to be strong stuff.
Loops
Posted by desolationrower on April 30, 2009, at 9:34:30
In reply to Re: Update on lithium orotate with questions, posted by Loops on April 30, 2009, at 7:39:34
look up stuff on cox inhibitors i posted
-d/r
Posted by Loops on May 1, 2009, at 7:27:55
In reply to Re: Update on lithium orotate with questions, posted by desolationrower on April 30, 2009, at 9:34:30
could you give me a link - you have many messages
thanks
Loops
Posted by desolationrower on May 3, 2009, at 22:16:29
In reply to Re: Update on lithium orotate with questions, posted by Loops on May 1, 2009, at 7:27:55
Posted by millijava on September 16, 2011, at 17:16:37
In reply to Update on lithium orotate with questions, posted by Loops on April 28, 2009, at 10:04:20
> hi all -
>
> well I am totally perplexed about my recent experiences. Was doing very well with the lithium orotate although I have gained some weight, but that could be anything although I haven't changed my diet.
>
> The thing is, it seems now whenever I take the lithium (one tab only a day) I develop awful lower back pain - so bad I have to take ibuprofen. If I skip taking the Li the pain goes away. What on earth is up with this? I'm only taking 4.9mg elemental Li a day, along with plenty of magnesium, and this really shouldn't be having any side effects.
>
> Can anyone help me on this? I was getting so much done on the lithium orotate as opposed to just procrastinating all day long so I don't really want to stop them. However the weight gain and back pain is very disturbing. Anyone have any insights?
>
> Thanks
>
> LoopsHey loops,
Lithium is a salt which increase both thirst and the need for water to flush the excess sodium from your system. If you are misrecognising thirst for hunger and are snacking a bit more or over eating a bit that could account for the weight gain. You also may simply be retaining water. The back pain may very likely be "kidney pain" as your kidneys are working extra hard to concentrate urine without enough water. You may be perceiving this pain as muscular back pain. I see this all the time with clients that are dehydrated (I'm a massage therapist). Try upping your water intake. I'm 6'1' 260 and I probably intake at least a gallon a day for reference. If I don't drink my water I'll get low back pain or random muscle spasms usually in the legs. Hope this helps
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