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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 7:54:46
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
> Just curious if there was a breaking point? I understand that certain circumstances - i.e. genuine suicidal intentions, psychosis, catatonic/vegetative depressions, being completely unable to care for yourself, etc. - would automatically warrant hospitalization.
All the above, except for the psychosis which I thankfully haven't experienced. I am usually quite resistant to going to hospital, because I don't appreciate just how sick I am amongst other things, but afterwards I know I needed to be there. When you're that deep into the hole you lose perspective.
It does sound like you need greater medical care than you are getting at the moment. I am concerned for you.
If you don't mind my asking, which state/territory are you in? You can babblemail me. I might be able to point you in the right direction or ask around as to the best services in your area -- and places to avoid.
Please take gentle care of yourself. Be honest with your doctor about how you are feeling, functioning and coping. Reach out and accept help from people you trust.
I will be thinking of you.
Posted by Christ_empowered on February 20, 2012, at 12:45:42
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital? » g_g_g_unit, posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 7:54:46
Seriously. Both times I've been hospitalized, I was treated like crap and it was quite expensive. The first time, I was even told that my "real" problem was ADD. The counselor or somebody diagnosed narcissism and proceeded to break confidentiality in my small, southern US town. Turns out...I have Bipolar I w/Psychotic Features, which led to hospitalization #2. They wouldn't give me pain killers even though I had a concussion from being beat on the head during a botched mugging.
Hospitals bring out the worst in shrinks. Avoid them at all costs.
Posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 13:21:36
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
I put myself in years ago when I thought something should be done about how I was feeling. I was young and thought they had something to offer me....that they *should* have had something......now that sort of mistake just seems endearing. I wanted to have my meals in my room. They said I should eat with everyone. I guess they were trying to tell me it was not a hotel. So I went to breakfast which was even worse than I feared. This woman said to me
What are you in here for?
Ummm
For not taking your meds?
ummmm
Or for taking too much?
Posted by Raisinb on February 20, 2012, at 14:03:58
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
I think it is different for everyone, but I have a point where I absolutely can go no further; I'm going crazy, losing it, I can't take one more second of being myself/being conscious. Twice, I overdosed when I got to this point. The third time, I went to the hospital.
My hospitalization experience was really good. It was a special mood disorders unit, not a psych ward; it was like a dorm filled with people just like me. The nurses were very caring. And the doctors were excellent. I'm so glad i made that choice at that moment--not to say I won't do absolutely everything to avoid it again,
But I am in the US with a relatively expensive PPO (pay hundreds per month for my employer's top plan). You should listen to the experiences of people who live where you do.
That said, if you need to go, you need to go, and I think you will know if and when that is,
Posted by B2chica on February 20, 2012, at 14:27:20
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
when you realize you are ready to act on your dark thoughts that would cause you harm.
or if you keep pushing your limits in harming yourself.best wishes to you.
ps. i had good experiences at hospital most times but it was basically a place that would keep you safe for a few days. my best experience was with an outpatient program they had. a day program that i went to from 8:30 to 3:30. instead of staying the night. AND i was able to see pdoc and t there. you might checkinto your hospitals and see if they have any resources like that?
Posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 16:00:47
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by Raisinb on February 20, 2012, at 14:03:58
> You should listen to the experiences of people who live where you do.
I strongly agree with this. I have experienced good and bad hospitals. GPs often don't have a clue and may send you to a bad place... or convince your parents to take you to a bad place... but psychiatrists and other mental health "consumers" as they call us know.
> That said, if you need to go, you need to go, and I think you will know if and when that is.
I agree with this too. If you think you might need to go to hospital, ggg, you probably do.
Don't forget that you can call a hotline if you are in crisis. If you tell them you have suicidal thoughts but don't intend to act on them, they respect that (in my experience), so you're not going to have the police knock on your door 30mins later.
Lifeline: 13 11 14 (24h)
Suicide Call Back Service: 02 9331 2000 (24h) - nationwide service
SANE Australia: 1800 187 263 (9-5 weekdays)
Posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 18:15:02
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
There are so many good and valid points here - especially from you g.
If your doc won't treat you after a hospital stay, perhaps s/he will give you some TLC and extra attention now. I think that is what we are all looking for in a hospital.
I am in the US. Things are surely different here. I guess I needed a hospital stay to make my family aware of how much I wanted to die. So I had a support system, in the end. I don't know what yours is...but I am concerned about you.
The only good thing I had in the hospital was a doctor who cared about me and went the extra mile to help me get outside help. It also made my own doctor realize how much extra time and help I needed. When I was released to his care, he got more aggressive about treatment.
In most parts of the US they start with a 72 hour watch. Perhaps you could talk to your doc about doing a 72 hr stint? It seems very important to you that you keep your doctor...
I think you could use a little time in the hospital based on your post. I think you are just too afraid of losing your doc. Such a tough place to be in. I wish you wisdom and respite from your pain.
Posted by emmanuel98 on February 20, 2012, at 18:21:51
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
I've been hospitalized here in the US a few times. They only admit you if you are on the verge of suicide or are clearly a danger to yourself or others. Whenever I've been hospitalized, my own p-doc did not treat me, though he was in close touch with the hospital docs. Once he even came in for a meeting, but unless your doc is also on the hospital staff, you will be treated by the hospital docs. That's how it works in the US anyway.
Being in a psych ward is no day at the beach. I wouldn't advise it unless you feel you are not going to survive except on a locked ward.
Posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 19:10:22
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 16:00:47
Stewie,
I think ggg means that he wouldn't be able to have his psychiatrist treat him while in hospital, not that he wouldn't be able to see his psychiatrist afterwards.
ggg,
Am I right in thinking that you have private health insurance but your plan doesn't cover psychiatric care? If that's the case:
- you could see of your doctor is attached to any public hospitals. As a private patient in a public hospital you would have the right to choose your own doctor.
- if you were to add psychiatric treatment to your plan, by law the maximum waiting period you would have to serve is 2 months, regardless of whether it is a pre-existing condition. This doesn't help you in the immediate term, but it's something to think about for the future if you can afford it. (I'd personally make it a priority).
Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 19:37:53
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 19:10:22
I'd have a talk with your doc to see how to proceed.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 19:39:24
In reply to hospitals suck » papillon2, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 19:37:53
Posted by bleauberry on February 21, 2012, at 5:37:14
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
Well, I knew it was time for the hospital when an ambulance showed up and they were after me. My talk of how I was going to kill myself scared people enough to call 911. So basically that's it....suicide related behavior will make the hospital thing happen. Not that it means anything, because it is not the hospital's goal to get you well....only to 'stabilize' the situation enough that you aren't going to pull a trigger today. I have known one person who came out of the hospital with a new life, started him on prozac in the hospital and had an immediate resposne, but most stories are not like that. Beds are limited, it is expensive, and only the worst of the worst get to stay. I was still nearly suicidal when they let me go. A week stay was considered a fairly long one.
I say it all the time, but in cases like yours I think it is most important....have to break out of the limited box of what psychiatrists can do and add more approaches to the whole. Getting out of the house and getting engaged in any kind of social activity, even just taking walks around WalMart for exercise or something....anything....has to be done. For starters. Food choices real important. Herbs and supplements can do what meds can't, or can make meds work better. And yes, depakote can make someone feel worse.
To me it sounds like you are 'stuck'. So the goal is to get 'unstuck', which means doing something, moving forward, changing stuff. Believe me I know as well as anyone how hard that seems, and it is, but staying sick is harder.
> Just curious if there was a breaking point? I understand that certain circumstances - i.e. genuine suicidal intentions, psychosis, catatonic/vegetative depressions, being completely unable to care for yourself, etc. - would automatically warrant hospitalization.
>
> Since I live at home and don't have any real responsibilities, it's something I've managed to avoid, though I do feel like there have been times where it would have been in my favor.
>
> I'm just at the point now where, like, every daily stressor feels insurmountable. I live from hour-to-hour, day-to-day and I can't picture going weeks on end like this anymore. I have a plan to end my life, which I find reassuring to think about, but I have no intentions to act on it at this point.
>
> I don't know if the Depakote is making me feel worse. I generally tend to feel best for the 2 hours after each tiny 5mg Parnate dose, and then fall into (stimulant?) withdrawal.
>
> My hesitations are a) that my psychiatrist has said he wouldn't be able to treat me himself if I was admitted to hospital, and b) I don't trust the public psychiatric system in Australia (my insurance doesn't cover private). I just worry I'd end up overmedicated, though I'm not sure if that's a realistic concern. I also think I'd have more chance being diagnosed with leprosy than ADHD comorbid with OCD.
>
> So I don't know if it would just be better to carry on the way I have been - i.e. doing my best to distract myself and hang in there - while remaining in private, out-patient treatment.
>
>
Posted by mellow on February 21, 2012, at 10:31:26
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
"i.e. genuine suicidal intentions, psychosis, catatonic/vegetative depressions, being completely unable to care for yourself, etc."
All of this is spot on to why I had to go in. It was a great experience and I would be dead had I now gotten help. From my judgement of your post over the last year you do not seem to be getting much better. It may help to get a fresh perspective on an inpatient basis. Your doctor is obviously already feeling a bit inadequate because he sent you to that medical school doctor last year if I recall.
I would get yourself checked out if you have been feeling suicidal for more than a few weeks. If ending it gives you a sense of relief then you'd better do something. That is scarey. Seeing a new doctor might not be a bad thing. You haven't dramatically improved or anything since you have been posting here so it wouldn't be a great loss. I wouldn't be too tied to a diagnosis. I talented group of doctors could make a better judgement than you would think regardless if it is a public clinic.
I guess what I'm saying is don't give up. I'm sorry that you aren't feeling well. I know it can be bummer to be down in that black hole.
mellow
Posted by mellow on February 21, 2012, at 10:38:16
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by mellow on February 21, 2012, at 10:31:26
"You haven't dramatically improved or anything since you have been posting here so it wouldn't be a great loss."
I should clarify that I meant it wouldn't be a great loss to see a new doctor. It would certainly be a terrible loss if you harmed yourself. That was a poorly worded post.
mellow
Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 21, 2012, at 11:35:56
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
I never thought it was time. I still don't.
I ended up there anyway after an overdose, on a cardiac monitoring unit first, then incarceration for a week.
Thinking back (of course) I could've done things differently and avoided the whole mess. So, take how you're feeling seriously, don't keep it a secret and talk to you doc, therapist, whatever.
Take good care if yourself, okay?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 22, 2012, at 1:43:18
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by mellow on February 21, 2012, at 10:31:26
> All of this is spot on to why I had to go in. It was a great experience and I would be dead had I now gotten help. From my judgement of your post over the last year you do not seem to be getting much better. It may help to get a fresh perspective on an inpatient basis. Your doctor is obviously already feeling a bit inadequate because he sent you to that medical school doctor last year if I recall.
>
> I would get yourself checked out if you have been feeling suicidal for more than a few weeks. If ending it gives you a sense of relief then you'd better do something. That is scarey. Seeing a new doctor might not be a bad thing. You haven't dramatically improved or anything since you have been posting here so it wouldn't be a great loss. I wouldn't be too tied to a diagnosis. I talented group of doctors could make a better judgement than you would think regardless if it is a public clinic.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is don't give up. I'm sorry that you aren't feeling well. I know it can be bummer to be down in that black hole.
>
> mellowWow mellow, I'm extremely touched that you've been paying attention to my case and are able to recall details like my referral to that professor.
To be honest, I've felt suicidal for the better part of a year, which is why the prospect of continuing in outpatient treatment isn't a *huge* deal. I also think part of that suicidality derives from not being able to treat my attentional problems (in addition to everything else), which is why I would be reluctant to give up seeing my psychiatrist, even temporarily.
My meeting with said professor - who ran a private hospital - wasn't particularly encouraging. He wanted me on a high dose of Lexapro and Zyprexa, and did not want me on any stimulants. He was against MAOIs, and recommended ECT instead. I know it's just one man's opinion, but it felt emblematic of the kind of care I might receive in hospital.
Regardless, I'm meeting with a new GP on Friday (my old one recently left town for good), so I'll see if he possibly has any ideas/links.
Posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 2:11:53
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital? » mellow, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 22, 2012, at 1:43:18
Feeling suicidal is not such a huge deal, as you say. I emphasise feeling, of course.
It's no fun, but plenty of people live with it, if only because they can find no way of feeling any better.
Posted by stargazer2 on February 22, 2012, at 20:25:56
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by sigismund on February 22, 2012, at 2:11:53
Usually you don't decide it is time for a hospitalization, something happens and it is decided for you. I was in twice last year and it was not helpful but is done to prevent you from hurting yourself.
Very expensive to have someone watch you 24/7, no real improvement in condition, just waiting to get released as you realize theres no place like home to recover as long as you have a good doctor following you.
As sick as I was, I felt normal compared to the people I met in the hospital, so I really wanted out. But your depression doesn't get better so it does seem like a waste of time in retrospect.
If we all had a good friend that could stay with us and help us emotionally, that would be just as good.
Posted by papillon2 on February 23, 2012, at 6:01:37
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by stargazer2 on February 22, 2012, at 20:25:56
The responses to this thread show the variety of experiences in psychiatric (and other) hospitals. The good, the bad, and the expensive child minding.
As a psych patient in a public hospital a couple of times as a teenager I was traumatized/abused and left in a worse state than when I arrived. The experience still poses considerable barriers to future treatment.
Since then I have also had a couple of short stays (2 days) as a psych patient in public hospitals (ER), and the majority of nurses are rude and insolent and waste no time in telling you -- directly and indirectly -- that you are a waste of space and time.
HOWEVER, I have also had very good experiences in a private psych hospital where I see my own psychiatrist and psychologist. There is a good inpatient group program and only a couple of bad nurses. They aren't perfect -- the nurses don't seem to understand severe psychomotor retardation, for example, and occasionally give you the wrong meds (!!!!!), but overall it's a good place where you DO get better.
I think it is important to recognize that not all hospitals are the same. There are some very, very bad hospitals out there where abuse is rife and health professionals know they can get away with it because no one will believe the mentally ill person. But there ARE good hospitals out there where you are safe (-ish, you can kill yourself anywhere if you really want to) and treated with compassion, and where you can be stabilized much more quickly than you can on the outside. Med changes can be implemented far more quickly in hospital than outside, which can be crucial when you are severely sick.
So baby, bath water, all that.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 23, 2012, at 6:05:42
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by stargazer2 on February 22, 2012, at 20:25:56
It'd be nice if there was a way to have someone give support and just be there, instead of being robbed of thousands of dollars to be incarcerated.
Posted by phidippus on February 23, 2012, at 17:24:46
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
I usually check into the hospital when I've become psychotic.
Eric
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on February 24, 2012, at 13:54:57
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital? » g_g_g_unit, posted by phidippus on February 23, 2012, at 17:24:46
My doctor suggested a few times that I would be more effectively treated if I would enter the hospital for a few weeks. Circumstances would not allow and he continued to treat me as an out patient.
I do think the bottom line is really whether you are safe on your own. Whether you think of hurting yourself or others.
Sounds from others here that the hospital might end up being a challenging situation in itself.
If I were you I would consult another doctor (you can do this without notifying present doc). It might be best to have another opinion on whether the depokate is having a negative effect. And in my experience Parnate can cause despair during a meltdown.
Always question the meds before the patient is the way it should be.
Please take good care of yourself.
Posted by Meddy43 on March 2, 2012, at 8:51:06
In reply to how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2012, at 5:40:10
I've been hospitalized so often, that I have lost count. But the latest stay was so horrible, that I will not call anyone if I'm suicidal. I was manic, they tell me, around last october, and did some stupid things. about 2 weeks ago, I felt so incapasitated, that I could make a sandwich for myself: too demanding. I still only consume Diet coke, cookies and peanuts. I can't do anything, I don't feel anything, I stay in my jammies night and day. I can only be at my computer. But I still think one of you, or maybe many, have a conspiracy about me. I got a second psyc med, I now have zyprexa and Abilify, and the Lyrica and the benzos. I can't think straight, andI see glimpses of people who want me dead. I do take my meds. I think I'm slighty down, but my pdoc says I have Bipolar 1, and have a psychotic depression now.She knows how ´much I hate being incarcerated in a locked ward, and did not commit me for my manias or depressions. I have the set date I will kill myself 021012. She trusted me enough to stay in my own locked ward, my home. I have to think about taking out the trash for three days and I think my whole life is a failure, a mistake, and God wants me Home, I think so.
I didn't know when I would me comitted; I did not feel ill, and the same goes for me depression. And I don't feel psychotic
So I would try to avoid hospitals, but when you or someone else thinks that you are in danger, do go to a hospital, they will save your life, give you time to think about what to do, instead of being suicidal. Take one day at a time. I'sorry that you feel ill.I hope you get help ! Take care of yourself.
Posted by Meddy43 on March 3, 2012, at 13:47:43
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by papillon2 on February 20, 2012, at 16:00:47
I will never go into a hospital !!!
Posted by papillon2 on March 3, 2012, at 20:50:44
In reply to Re: how did you know when it was time for hospital?, posted by Meddy43 on March 3, 2012, at 13:47:43
> I will never go into a hospital !!!
Unfortunately, you may not have a choice.
This is the end of the thread.
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