![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2010, at 21:44:02
Maybe some of the new meds that target the circadian rhythm will work better than current treatments. But fits with a lot that is posted here. Phillipa
Depression Linked to Altered Activity of Circadian Rhythm Gene
Jacquelyn K. Beals, PhDNovember 18, 2010 Disturbance of the biochemical mechanisms that regulate circadian rhythm may be associated with depression, according to research findings recently published in the October issue of the Journal of Affective Disorders.
The study, led by scientists at The Ohio State University, investigated whether the expression levels of 4 genes already associated with the biological clock differed between healthy adults with and without a history of depression.
The 4 "circadian clock genes" selected for the study were Clock, Period1, Period2, and Bmal1; their expression levels were determined by measuring levels of their respective messenger RNAs (mRNAs) in peripheral blood leukocytes (PBLs).
"The 4 genes were selected based on past studies on stress, depression, and circadian gene expression," first study author Jean-Philippe Gouin, MA, MPs, clinical psychology PhD candidate, Department of Psychology, The Ohio State University, Columbus, told Medscape Medical News.
"We chose to study Clock and Bmal1 because they are the major regulators of circadian rhythm genes, senior study author Ning Quan, PhD, assistant professor, Division of Oral Biology, College of Dentistry, Department of Molecular Virology, Immunology and Medical Genetics, and the Institute for Behavioral Medicine Research, College of Medicine, The Ohio State University, Columbus, told Medscape Medical News.
"Period1 and Period2 were selected because these genes have been shown to express their proteins in vivo with circadian rhythmicity and they are regulated by the Clock-Bmal1 complex. In addition, they inhibit Clock-Bmal1 activity, closing the feedback loop," Dr. Quan added.
Chronic Stress Alters Clock Gene Expression
The circadian clock genes are active in the hypothalamic suprachiasmatic nucleus, the "internal clock" that regulates several body systems to a cycle approximately 24-hours long; they are also expressed in the heart, kidneys, lungs, liver, eyes, skeletal muscles, and PBLs.
As noted above, the present study measured expression levels of circadian clock gene expression by assessing mRNA levels in PBLs. All blood samples were drawn between 9 and 11 am.
Study participants were 60 adults (mean age, 71 years). Half the participants (n = 30) had a history of depression: 16 with a single episode of major depression, 13 with recurrent episodes, and 1 with "depressive disorder not otherwise specified."
Only 4 of this group were depressed during the study. The 30 other participants had no history of clinical depression.
All participants were drawn from a larger study of caregivers for family members with progressive dementia and noncaregiver controls. Animal studies have shown that chronic stress can alter clock gene expression, and dementia caregiving is a source of chronic stress. The present study included 25 caregivers and 35 noncaregivers, but these categories were not found to influence clock gene expression.
However, individuals with a history of depression differed significantly from those with no such history in the mRNA expression of Clock (P = .05), Period1 (P = .02), and BMal1 (P = .04).
Briefly, low levels of Clock mRNA were more common among participants with no history of depression, but high levels of Clock mRNA were more common in participants with a history of depression. The same high/low depression/nondepression pattern was also found for Period 1 and Bmal1 mRNA expression.
In a simultaneous analysis of all 4 circadian genes, only Clock mRNA expression was "an independent predictor of history of depression" (P = .05). None of the other 3 circadian genes predicted a history of depression, but the association with Clock as a predictor remained stable even after adjustments for age, sex, caregiving, and confounding health variables, such as body mass index, use of alcohol and tobacco, exercise, medical conditions, and medications.
Predictor for Depression?
Dr. Quan noted that gene expression in this system is complex and specific to cell type and tissue. "I do not know whether the stronger association between depression and the Clock is logical. At least, I dont think we understand the logic at this point," he said.
"There are many confounding factors. If we can design a study to take blood samples at different times of the day, then we can think about whether Clock may be used as a predictor for depression," said Dr. Quan. "For now it is premature to think that."
The current study showed that the pattern of higher expression of circadian genes differs between people with a history of (unipolar) depression and those without such a history and that Clock constituted a predictor of a history of depression.
However, in light of inconsistent findings in the literature on clock genes, the study authors suggest several possibilities: involvement of several interacting genes with redundant feedback loops, the need for several polymorphisms to actually disrupt the circadian clock system, or an indirect effect due to the impact of these genes on sleep disturbances a recognized risk factor for depression.
"All the circadian genes are part of regulatory feedback loops," said Mr. Gouin. "Clock expression is the end result of one of the regulatory feedback loops; that is, it can be inhibited or not by other circadian genes."
Treatments Target Clock Genes
Medscape Medical News also asked Francesco Benedetti, MD, Department of Neuropsychiatric Sciences, Scientific Institute and University Vita Salute San Raffaele, Milan, Italy, to comment on the study.
Asked if Clock might ever become a molecular target for therapies to prevent depression or relieve depressive symptoms, Dr. Benedetti indicated a figure from one of his own papers.
"It already is," he said. The figure shows pathways by which lithium, valproic acid, and antipsychotics, as well as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, monoamine oxidase inhibitors, and even light therapy, influence Clock and Bmal1. "All the known treatments for mood disorders target the clock genes," said Dr. Benedetti.
Mr. Gouin, Dr. Quan, and Dr. Benedetti have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.
J Affect Disord. 2010;126:161-166.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 10:31:20
In reply to Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2010, at 21:44:02
Phillipa, thanks for this post. My clock has always been off. Sometimes I speculate about 'what happened to me', and I trace back to childhood sleep problems and anxiety. Had those issues addressed at least by my early twenties-- even with just having a sleep aid available and some biofeedback, I might have avoided 'this'.
Hmmm.
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2010, at 11:39:51
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 10:31:20
FB seems always have had sleep problems as a child slept too much and then needed meds to sleep. Thanks for reading. It means a lot. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 11:52:54
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2010, at 11:39:51
Did you need meds as a child? No, you mean as an adult.
I have onset difficulty. Only when depression is bad do I have early awakening issues. However, sonata still works when needed.
Posted by linkadge on November 19, 2010, at 16:35:36
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 11:52:54
I think this is very promising research. My depression is always associated with a major disturbance of the sleep cycle. Stress makes it worse.
I am finally starting to feel more *well* with the combination of low dose amitriptyline and clonazepam. I'm sleeping better and the fear of insomnia has diminished greatly.
Linkadge
Posted by Bob on November 19, 2010, at 16:38:29
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 11:52:54
I've always had sleep problems. All through my late childhood and adolescent years I had difficulty with sleep onset - especially in a place other than at home. Mornings have always been difficult in terms of waking up and getting out of bed. Once I started psych drugs morning sedation and fatigue took on epic proportions and no drug cocktail ever corrected this. I've pretty much required some sort of nap almost every day since high school (I'm 42 now), and even when I was "well" the evening and late night were the most productive and vigilant time.
Bob
Posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 17:45:48
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood, posted by Bob on November 19, 2010, at 16:38:29
Bob, ditto on the late day evening energy boost. It's like I wake up and stay up toooo late. Since childhood. Why?
Posted by linkadge on November 19, 2010, at 18:10:57
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Bob, posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 17:45:48
I have the same problem. Everything just starts to rev up around 7pm.
I have noticed that some strong coffee in the morning *seems* to help induce fatugue later in the day.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2010, at 19:29:30
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2010, at 18:10:57
Same here minus the coffee does the dark chocolate count for caffeine. Crash and then usually wake again. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 19:52:54
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2010, at 19:29:30
Phillipa, can you taste the bitterness of black coffee at all?
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2010, at 21:33:44
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on November 19, 2010, at 19:52:54
FB bitter, sweet, salty, sour those are the tastes on taste buds so a bit of bitter. But taste is regulated by smell. Not satisfying or healthy. Was told by all the docs shouldn't be alone as couldn't smell a gas leak is the example they always use. Can't smell chlorox either so see how bad it is? Why do you ask? Phillipa
Posted by alchemy on November 20, 2010, at 15:54:06
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2010, at 21:33:44
Circadian is definitly linked for a lot of cases. All these damn complex gene expressions and cascades of interactions. And some people think I just need to take B12, etc. :)
I have gone through different phases. I will never forget the horrid 5:30 am anxiety to the roof- no matter what time I went to bed.
I have also gone through the "normal" depression being worse in the morning and it improves as the day goes on.
Lately it is very noticable quick change in mood in the afternoon.
Posted by bleauberry on November 22, 2010, at 6:05:47
In reply to Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2010, at 21:44:02
This topic seems like a no-brainer to me. I mean, of course the daily clock is linked, because it involves the hormones. Specifically we are talking cortisol. We are talking the pituitary gland. These are major controllers of what goes on with serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. That's why I think a 24 hour 4-sample cortisol test should be almost mandatory on a patient's first depression visit. Depression and anxiety both result when:
1. Cortisol is too high at any time of the day (out of range).
2. Cortisol is too low at any time of the day (out of range).
3. Cortisol shows a pattern opposite of what it should.This also ties in with a topic by SLS later on this page about a new drug for depression, which focuses on repairing the damage done by....stress hormones. That's what cortisol is.
Posted by Ron Hill on November 30, 2010, at 0:20:40
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood, posted by alchemy on November 20, 2010, at 15:54:06
> Circadian is definitly linked for a lot of cases. All these damn complex gene expressions and cascades of interactions. And some people think I just need to take B12, etc. :)
------------------------------Due to medical malpractice, I was turned into an ultra rapid cycler; a 15 day cycle consisting of 6 days of deep depression and 9 days of no depression. The 15 day cycle continued constantly without stopping for 14 years.
Over the years, my p-docs and I tried a ton of different meds to stop the ultra rapid cycling and nothing worked. However, four months ago I started taking Valdoxan (agomelatine) and my ultra rapid cycling immediately stopped, and it has never returned. I am free of depression.
Valdoxan is an M1 and M2 agonist and a 5HT2c antagonist. Valdoxan acts on the SCN (Supra-Chiasmatic Nucleus) and, thereby, influences the circadian rhythms. As an aside, DA and NE are released in the frontal cortex due the antagonist action at 5HT2c.
Valdoxan is not FDA approved in the US, but it is approved in several other countries. It is available on the internet.
Novartis purchased the rights from Servier to market the medication in the US. However, Novartis plans to seek FDA approval no sooner than 2012.
Alchemy, I know that I have told you most of this before, but I wanted to put the information in this thread because it is very relevant to the topic.
Below is an excellent link for Valdoxan. No one will arrest you if you click the doctor option. The doctor site has the best information.
http://www.valdoxan.co.uk/landing.aspx?redirect=/Default.aspx
-- Rondx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD
600 mg/day Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)
200 mg/day Lamictal (lamotrigine)
500 mg/day Keppra (levetiracetam)
90 mg/day Nardil (phenelzine)
12.5 mg every other day Valdoxan (agomelatine)
3.75 mg/day Deplin (taken with 2500 mcg/day of sublingual methyl B-12, and 12.5mg/day of sublingual P-5-P)
2.5 mg/day Adderal XR45 ml/day of Carlsons Bottled Fish Oil
100 mg/day phosphatidylserene
1 Centrum Chewable Multi-vitamin/day; Only 100% of all the usual vitamins; NO VANADIUM!!
2000 IU/day Vitamin D-3
850 mg/day of Mg 212% of RDA (as 5 grams of Mg Malate)
200 mcg/day GTF Chromium
600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate
200 mg/day Co-Q10
1000 mg/day Cinnamon
480 mg/day Milk Thistle
2 g Vitamin C
Posted by Phillipa on November 30, 2010, at 19:41:47
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » alchemy, posted by Ron Hill on November 30, 2010, at 0:20:40
Ron seriously you are now cured so to speak. Wow congratulations!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by Ron Hill on December 1, 2010, at 13:27:06
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Ron Hill, posted by Phillipa on November 30, 2010, at 19:41:47
> Ron seriously you are now cured so to speak. Wow congratulations!!!!! Phillipa
-----------------------------------------
Jan,Yep, I'm completely well every since I added 25 mg/night of Valdoxan (agomelatine) four months ago. It's not just the Valdoxan, of course. I take a bunch of meds, vitamins, and supplements (see below). But, it is Valdoxan that did the final trick. No more depression, and no more ultra rapid cycling.
The one caveat is that I begin to get depressed if I neglect to take my vitamins and supplements for two or more days in a row.
Also, it should be noted that, although 25 mg/night of Valdoxan worked well in the begining, as of three weeks ago I found the need to reduce my maintenance dosage of Valdoxan to 12.5 mg/every other night. The higher dosage was causing choppy sleep. At the reduced dosage, my sleep is good, no depression, and no rapid cycling. It's amazing the amount of good that such a small amount of medicine can do.
My 14 years of hell are over! Praise the Lord!!
Thank you for your congratulations. May everyone find wellness.
I can honestly say that I am well today primarily because of p-babble. I learned how to conduct research by seeing how others do it on p-babble. And, I learned a lot from the anecdotal med responses of others over the years. I am thankful.
Now I have to focus on cutting the 60 pounds I've gained from Nardil.
Thanks again, Jan.
-- Ron
dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD600 mg/day Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)
200 mg/day Lamictal (lamotrigine)
500 mg/day Keppra (levetiracetam)
90 mg/day Nardil (phenelzine)
12.5 mg everyother day Valdoxan (agomelatine)
3.75 mg/day Deplin (taken with 2500 mcg/day of sublingual methyl B-12, and 12.5mg/day of sublingual P-5-P)
2.5 mg/day Adderal XR45 ml/day of Carlsons Bottled Fish Oil
100 mg/day phosphatidylserene
1 Centrum Chewable Multi-vitamin/day; Only 100% of all the usual vitamins; NO VANADIUM!!
2000 IU/day Vitamin D-3
850 mg/day of Mg 212% of RDA (as 5 grams of Mg Malate)
200 mcg/day GTF Chromium
600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate
200 mg/day Co-Q10
1000 mg/day Cinnamon
480 mg/day Milk Thistle
2 g Vitamin C
Whats next to add?:NAC, + 8 to 10 glasses of water, + Acetyl-L-Carnitine, + Alpha-Lipoic Acid
Posted by alchemy on December 1, 2010, at 20:32:02
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » alchemy, posted by Ron Hill on November 30, 2010, at 0:20:40
thanks Ron. I actually ordered it soon after you told me about it. I did a 2-3 week trial and if there was an effect it was more negative. I'm glad it worked for you. It makes sense because it works on circadian stuff.
btw- yesterday my dr. said he think we have pretty much exhausted everything & to make no changes. On one had he is right, I've been through the ringer. He has been a pretty good doc. And trying a new med is a huge risk or me - I would say a 90% chance it will make me worse. And there is a problem is the withdrawal and my body trying to re-adapt. Med trials are what have pushed me into needing ECT.
I am more worried about the more down days I cycle into. Then I will really feel despair, especially going on 25 years of mood sh*t.
I will still look for options on my own, and maybe hormone testing with bio-identical hormones. (birth control of course screws me up even more).
Posted by Ron Hill on December 1, 2010, at 22:51:24
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Ron Hill, posted by alchemy on December 1, 2010, at 20:32:02
Alchemy,
> I did a 2-3 week trial and if there was an effect it was more negative. I'm glad it worked for you. It makes sense because it works on circadian stuff.
Rapid cycling is directly associated with circadian rhythm dysfunction. That's why I hoped Valdoxan would help you. I'm sorry that it did not work. I'm also sorry for the money you spent on the Valdoxan purchase.
> btw- yesterday my dr. said he think we have pretty much exhausted everything & to make no changes.With all due respect, I disagree with your p-doc.
> On one had he is right, I've been through the ringer. He has been a pretty good doc. And trying a new med is a huge risk or me - I would say a 90% chance it will make me worse. And there is a problem is the withdrawal and my body trying to re-adapt. Med trials are what have pushed me into needing ECT.
I hear what you are saying, but I'm concerned that Celexa may be contributing to your rapid cycling. Dexedrine may also be contributing to your rapid cycling.
As you know, it is still on my list to reply in full to our post exchange in a prior thread. I don't have time to do that tonight, but I will try to get to it this weekend.
You still are taking the following, correct?
400 mg/day Lamictal
30 mg/day Celexa
2 mg/day Xanax
300 mg/day Wellbutrin
Synthroid
DexedrineHow much Dexedrine are you taking?
Are you taking instant release or Dexedrine Spanules sustained release?
Remind me why you are taking Dexedrine? Do you take it to treat low energy?
How much synthroid are you taking?
How long has it been since you had your TSH tested?
What is your TSH level?
If it were me, I'd start by adding 600-900 mg/day of Trileptal and raise it if needed to 1200-1800 mg/day.
Next, I would slowly wean off of Celexa, Wellbutrin, and Dexedrine. After the two-week washout, I'd add Parnate and ramp it up to 60-80 mg/day.
If Parnate didn't work, I'd switch to Nardil but I'd guard against weight gain right from the start of taking Nardil.
Once the MAOI is fully ramped up, VERY LOW DOSAGES of Wellbutrin and/or Dexedrine might be able to be added VERY CAREFULLY.
That's what I'd do if it were me, but I'm not you.
More later.
-- Ron
dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD600 mg/day Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)
200 mg/day Lamictal (lamotrigine)
500 mg/day Keppra (levetiracetam)
90 mg/day Nardil (phenelzine)
12.5 mg every other day Valdoxan (agomelatine)
3.75 mg/day Deplin (taken with 2500 mcg/day of sublingual methyl B-12, and 12.5mg/day of sublingual P-5-P)
2.5 mg/day Adderal XR45 ml/day of Carlsons Bottled Fish Oil
100 mg/day phosphatidylserene
1 Centrum Chewable Multi-vitamin/day; Only 100% of all the usual vitamins; NO VANADIUM!!
2000 IU/day Vitamin D-3
850 mg/day of Mg 212% of RDA (as 5 grams of Mg Malate)
200 mcg/day GTF Chromium
600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate
200 mg/day Co-Q10
1000 mg/day Cinnamon
480 mg/day Milk Thistle
2 g Vitamin C
Whats next to add?:NAC, + 8 to 10 glasses of water, + Acetyl-L-Carnitine, + Alpha-Lipoic Acid
Posted by Ron Hill on December 2, 2010, at 5:50:07
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Ron Hill, posted by alchemy on December 1, 2010, at 20:32:02
Alchemy,
I forgot something very important in my prior post to you.
Here is something that has a fairly good chance of helping you, and there are no adverse start-up effects.
Ask you p-doc for a script for 7.5 mg/day of Deplin. Deplin is L-methylfolate, the endogenous form of folate. In other words it is a nutraceutical, but it requires a script. A lot of research these days shows that a deficiency of folate is the cause of depression in many patients.
Further, Lamictal destroys folate. See pages 37, 43, of the Lamictal Prescribing Information document:
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_lamictal.pdf
In order to reduce homocystiene and provide your brain with these nutrients needed to make neurotransmitters and to function in more than 300 biochemical reactions in the brain, add the following to the Deplin:
Sublingual P-5-P (the endogenous form of B-6), and sublingual methylcobalamin (the endogenous form of B-12).
It is absolutely essential that you take the methyl-B12 sublingually (i.e.; hold the tablet under you tongue until it dissolves). When B12 is swallowed down-the-hatch only 1% is absorbed. When it is taken sublingually and, thereby, transferred across the membrane under the tongue directly to the bloodstream, 99% of the B-12 is absorbed.
Taking P-5-P sublingually doesn't taste real good, but you will get used to it. If you do not react well to P-5-P, take about 50 mg/day of B-6 instead.
Here are examples of sublingual methylcobalamin, sublingual P-5-P, and B-6 (if your body disagrees with P-5-P). Please read the product details for each product:
http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B-12-5000-mcg-60-Lozenges/117?at=0
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymated-B-6-25-mg-120-Sublingual-Tablets/1038?at=0
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-B-6-50-mg-250-Tablets/10045?at=0
Here is the URL of the Deplin website:
Please, please, please, try this add-on as I have described above.
Lastly, look through the list of stuff I take presented below my med list. I did not come up with this stuff willy-nilly. The things I take are based on research, and anecdotally they all improve my brain chemistry. So, look through my list and pick out the items that your budget allows you to buy, and try them to see if they help. Look up the prices on:
For example, some of the items on my list are very inexpensive, such as 200 mcg/day GTF Chromium and 600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate, and they can make a huge difference in some patients.
http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Chromium-Picolinate-200-mcg-100-Capsules/1879?at=0
http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-GTF-Chromium-Polynicotinate-100-Capsules/1918?at=0
Magnesium Malate is another example:
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Magnesium-Malate-1250-mg-180-Tablets/1444?at=0
D3 can be very effective in the tx of depression and it is very inexpensive:
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Vitamin-D-3-2-000-IU-200-Capsules/16666?at=0
As we have talked before, phosphatidylserene (PS) is kind of expensive, but it improves the placidity (pliablity) of the neural cell membranes and, thereby improves the functionality of the receptors. Here is my favorite brand. If I only take 100 mg/day, then the bottle lasts for two months:
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Phosphatidyl-Serine-100-100-mg-60-Capsules/1454?at=0
Bottled fish oil is a little expensive, but DHA and EPA are SO GOOD for patients:
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-The-Very-Finest-Fish-Oil-Lemon-Flavor-16-8-fl-oz-500-ml/2796?at=0
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-The-Very-Finest-Fish-Oil-Orange-Flavor-16-9-fl-oz-500-ml/7799?at=0
If I take as much as was used in the 1999 Andrew Stoll study, I need to drink two bottles per month. So it gets expensive. But, you could take less, and you can eat a lot of canned salmon and/or canned sardines (hey, they aren't bad with a tiny bit of mayo). Here is the Stoll study:
http://archpsyc.highwire.org/cgi/content/full/56/5/407
Ask your p-doc to write a script for a prescription fish oil product like Lovaza. Then your insurance should pay for it.
A bottle of the following CoQ10 lasts me two months:
http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Co-Q10-200-200-mg-60-Capsules/224?at=0
Each one isn't expensive. But, when they are all added up, it costs quite a bit. But, pick and choose the ones that will fit your budget, and see if it helps. If not, move to the next.
-- Ron
dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD600 mg/day Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)
200 mg/day Lamictal (lamotrigine)
500 mg/day Keppra (levetiracetam)
90 mg/day Nardil (phenelzine)
12.5 mg every other day Valdoxan (agomelatine)
3.75 mg/day Deplin (taken with 2500 mcg/day of sublingual methyl B-12, and 12.5mg/day of sublingual P-5-P)
2.5 mg/day Adderal XR45 ml/day of Carlsons Bottled Fish Oil
100 mg/day phosphatidylserene
1 Centrum Chewable Multi-vitamin/day; Only 100% of all the usual vitamins; NO VANADIUM!!
2000 IU/day Vitamin D-3
850 mg/day of Mg 212% of RDA (as 5 grams of Mg Malate)
200 mcg/day GTF Chromium
600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate
200 mg/day Co-Q10
1000 mg/day Cinnamon
480 mg/day Milk Thistle
2 g Vitamin C
Whats next to add?:
NAC, + 8 to 10 glasses of water, + Acetyl-L-Carnitine, + Alpha-Lipoic Acid
Posted by SLS on December 2, 2010, at 7:01:10
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » alchemy, posted by Ron Hill on December 2, 2010, at 5:50:07
Hi Ron.
It's just like you to invest so much time and energy when putting together posts to help others. You are generous beyond the call of duty.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Ron Hill on December 2, 2010, at 12:41:38
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Ron Hill, posted by SLS on December 2, 2010, at 7:01:10
Scott,
> It's just like you to invest so much time and energy when putting together posts to help others. You are generous beyond the call of duty.Thank you for your kind words, but isn't it like the pot calling the kettle, black?
I'm only able to post once in a while. You, on the other hand, are always here helping others.
:-) Smilie face back at ya.
-- Ron
Posted by KathrynLex on December 2, 2010, at 15:54:57
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood » Phillipa, posted by Ron Hill on December 1, 2010, at 13:27:06
I have to second Phillipa. It's great to see success stories, you're quite an inspiration.
> > Ron seriously you are now cured so to speak. Wow congratulations!!!!! Phillipa
> -----------------------------------------
> Jan,
>
> Yep, I'm completely well every since I added 25 mg/night of Valdoxan (agomelatine) four months ago. It's not just the Valdoxan, of course. I take a bunch of meds, vitamins, and supplements (see below). But, it is Valdoxan that did the final trick. No more depression, and no more ultra rapid cycling.
>
> The one caveat is that I begin to get depressed if I neglect to take my vitamins and supplements for two or more days in a row.
>
> Also, it should be noted that, although 25 mg/night of Valdoxan worked well in the begining, as of three weeks ago I found the need to reduce my maintenance dosage of Valdoxan to 12.5 mg/every other night. The higher dosage was causing choppy sleep. At the reduced dosage, my sleep is good, no depression, and no rapid cycling. It's amazing the amount of good that such a small amount of medicine can do.
>
> My 14 years of hell are over! Praise the Lord!!
>
> Thank you for your congratulations. May everyone find wellness.
>
> I can honestly say that I am well today primarily because of p-babble. I learned how to conduct research by seeing how others do it on p-babble. And, I learned a lot from the anecdotal med responses of others over the years. I am thankful.
>
> Now I have to focus on cutting the 60 pounds I've gained from Nardil.
>
> Thanks again, Jan.
>
> -- Ron
>
>
> dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD
>
> 600 mg/day Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)
> 200 mg/day Lamictal (lamotrigine)
> 500 mg/day Keppra (levetiracetam)
> 90 mg/day Nardil (phenelzine)
> 12.5 mg everyother day Valdoxan (agomelatine)
> 3.75 mg/day Deplin (taken with 2500 mcg/day of sublingual methyl B-12, and 12.5mg/day of sublingual P-5-P)
> 2.5 mg/day Adderal XR
>
> 45 ml/day of Carlsons Bottled Fish Oil
> 100 mg/day phosphatidylserene
> 1 Centrum Chewable Multi-vitamin/day; Only 100% of all the usual vitamins; NO VANADIUM!!
> 2000 IU/day Vitamin D-3
> 850 mg/day of Mg 212% of RDA (as 5 grams of Mg Malate)
> 200 mcg/day GTF Chromium
> 600 mcg/day Chromium Picolinate
> 200 mg/day Co-Q10
> 1000 mg/day Cinnamon
> 480 mg/day Milk Thistle
> 2 g Vitamin C
>
>
> Whats next to add?:
>
> NAC, + 8 to 10 glasses of water, + Acetyl-L-Carnitine, + Alpha-Lipoic Acid
>
Posted by Ron Hill on December 2, 2010, at 23:48:26
In reply to Re: Circadian Clock Linked To Depression Mood, posted by KathrynLex on December 2, 2010, at 15:54:57
KathrynLex,
> I have to second Phillipa. It's great to see success stories, you're quite an inspiration.
Thank you. I am one of the fortunate ones; a high percentage of us never achieve full remission.
Due to my current workload, I can't post on PB very often. However, if you ever have a question or concern about your situation, turn on your Babblemail, and send me your questions via Babblemail. That way I will always see the message come up in my e-mail box.
-- Ron
This is the end of the thread.
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