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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 99 to 123 of 142. Go back in thread:
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 13:26:34
In reply to biology vs psychology » SLS, posted by emmanuel98 on September 6, 2010, at 19:55:35
> I'm on the fence here. I had a terrible childhood/adolescence and had mood disorders all my life -- mostly severe mood swings lasting hours or days. But it wasn't until I was 50 that I experienced severe depression -- virtually comatose, sucidal, unable to do simple things like shower or wash the dishes for two months until I went into a hospital and was started on parnate. This I think was biological. Maybe my background made me more sucseptible and gave the depression themes and forms, but I truly feel like it was out of my physical control and that physical activities I had used to deal with moodiness had no effect at all on this depression. I think there's a biochemical piece to severe mood disorders which is independent of psychological histories.
>
> This is similar, imho, to drug and alcohol addiction. For me, drug and alcohol addiction were very much associated with loneliness and emotional distress. But in AA, I have met people who have had perfect childhoods and loving parents who nevertheless became out of control addicts and alcoholics.Emmanuel98, do you think it is possible the depression and sadness was always lurking deep beneath the surface, basically underlying depression that you could not necessarily feel, and then at some point this inner sadness/depression came out and took hold in a way it never had before?
>But in AA, I have met people who have had perfect childhoods and loving parents who nevertheless became out of control addicts and alcoholics.
I hate to sound cynical here but there are many many people that claim to have had a perfect childhood and loving parents that had far from that. We have to consider what and how people define things. To them, it may have appeared to be and felt like a perfect childhood. To them, their parents may seemed to be the most loving parents they could have ever asked for. Don't get me wrong, I think AA is great, but there are so many people that go there and distract themselves with love from God and never really take the time to dissect and analyze their childhood and face the demons that may have drove them to addiction in the first place. There is a reason why denial is THE most powerful coping mechanism the human race has in it's arsenal. Can you really trust the word of someone who masked their pain and escaped reality through alcohol and drugs? Again, not trying to be cynical, just realistic. Most people idolize their parents, defending them and putting them up on a pedestal, saying they were great when in reality they really were not. Many do not realize what it truly takes to be a great parent. What many think is great is really sub par.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 13:48:38
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 12:39:41
> The point I have been trying to make is, that if people born with a genetic predisposition to mental illness(and frankly I think some of those are simply people that are very sensitive and sensitive to their environment), are brought up in an ideal loving nurturing environment, the likeliness of them suffering from mental illness is GREATLY reduced and possible completely eliminated. Does that clear my beliefs/feelings on the subject up a bit?
I'd agree with that. Although I'd guess that an ideal loving and nurturing environment is rare. Most parents and most kids have to get by with good enough. Especially since, if genetics does play a large role, parents might be struggling with the same genetic tendencies.
Pressure on parents is huge. How can parents be ideal unless they themselves are perfectly well adjusted? How many perfect parents can there be out there? When my son was born, I resolved to try my hardest to be what he needed but I also resigned myself to the likelihood that in thirty years he might well be talking to a shrink about all the ways I messed up.
I was likely born with an oversensitive nervous system, making me prone to easy arousal and slow return to baseline. My parents chaotic environment, perhaps influenced by their own easy arousal and slow return to baseline, didn't help. But I see many of the same traits in my son. My home now is nothing at all like the one I grew up in. Not at all chaotic. I see some differences in him that result from the different environment. I see more ability in him to cope with a highly sensitive nervous system, and perhaps even to see the value in it. He's more resilient than I was. Certainly my husband and I have likely done things to exacerbate traits he already had, as well as things that might mitigate them.
I have to say that the idea that even slight misattunements or a coolish mother can cause mentally illness in children rather makes me wonder why anyone, aside from the enormously confident, chooses to have children at all...
I think I need to believe in the good enough mother.
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 14:13:11
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » morgan miller, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 13:48:38
I guess we'll have to disagree to agree. ;-)
It seems that we agree that a stressful environment can contribute to the pathogenesis of mental illness - just as it can contribute to heart disease. The brain is just another organ capable of operating anomalously when challenged.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 14:16:03
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » Dinah, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 14:13:11
Sorry.
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 14:31:31
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » morgan miller, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 13:48:38
Dinah, if we always settle on the "good enough mother" or "good enough" parents, will we ever strive to do what we need to do to be better parents? Don't you think we need to have a certain awareness of what it takes to be a really good parent so that we do not accept just being average or "good enough"?
>Pressure on parents is huge. How can parents be ideal unless they themselves are perfectly well adjusted?
This is exactly why we need more awareness and more services available to people so that they can have a better chance of taking it upon themselves to do what they need to do to nurture themselves closer to the better adjusted individual they would have been if their parents were better adjusted people.
>Especially since, if genetics does play a large role, parents might be struggling with the same genetic tendencies.
Like I said before, the genetics that predisposed the parents to struggle with their own mental illness, are less likely to be a disruptive factor in their lives and their ability to parent, if they are nurtured properly, be it by their parents, or, eventually by themselves through intensive therapy.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 14:32:55
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » Dinah, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 14:13:11
> I guess we'll have to disagree to agree. ;-)
>
> It seems that we agree that a stressful environment can contribute to the pathogenesis of mental illness - just as it can contribute to heart disease. The brain is just another organ capable of operating anomalously when challenged.
>
>
> - ScottCheers brotha : )
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 14:43:21
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 13:07:55
Are people afraid of the idea that their wonderfully creative minds are nothing more than a manifestation of a bounded physical object, and that this object sometimes develops a biological illness?
I am not afraid of the idea that my illness be completely psychological. In fact, I welcomed that possibility when I was first diagnosed with MDD. I much rathered that my psychological discomfort should be within my power to control. In other words, I was very angry when I discovered that no amount of psychotherapy - no amount of work and effort on my part - would get me well. Imagine my surprise when 2 weeks of drug therapy would accomplish what 2 years of psychotherapy did not.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 16:09:39
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » morgan miller, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 14:43:21
> Are people afraid of the idea that their wonderfully creative minds are nothing more than a manifestation of a bounded physical object, and that this object sometimes develops a biological illness?
>
> I am not afraid of the idea that my illness be completely psychological. In fact, I welcomed that possibility when I was first diagnosed with MDD. I much rathered that my psychological discomfort should be within my power to control. In other words, I was very angry when I discovered that no amount of psychotherapy - no amount of work and effort on my part - would get me well. Imagine my surprise when 2 weeks of drug therapy would accomplish what 2 years of psychotherapy did not.
>
>
> - Scott
>Realizing the benefits of therapy usually takes much longer than just a few years. Also, if therapy is going to work, it usually requires an open mind, a ton of hard work, breaking down of all barriers/coping mechanisms, etc. The thing about therapy is, it isn't as much a treatment for depression as it is a way to get to the bottom of the sadness and anxiety inside, deal with underlying anger(which believe it or not, we all have some of), and learn to love ourselves a build back our self esteem to what it should be. Through doing all of this, hopefully we will be less depressed and more equipped to deal with depression.
Scott, do you think your brain scans showing obvious dysfunction/malfunction, are a result of the cumulative damage of years of depression, manic episodes and anxiety caused by both biological and psychological/environmental factors? Do you think it is possible you had a much healthier better functioning brain when you were born and that early on your brain's healthy development may have been disrupted by environmental factors?
Posted by violette on September 7, 2010, at 16:12:48
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology » violette, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 6:16:04
SLS:
I'm not interested in the answers to those questions-not because i'm not interested in what you have to say-but because i was hoping YOU would be interested in the answers!
psychology vs biology:
Prior psychotherapy-for 5 years-total waste of time. It was like going swimming each week-but never once going in the water! But those therapists were much like the lifeguard-were interested in my wellness, but did relatively little...worse, none of them had ever had gone in the water before themselves....
Everyone defends against emotional pain; some people build temporary walls as needed...but some people build a thick wall and end up carrying it around with them...until it eventually becomes part of their identity...and sometimes will remain for the rest of their lives...and sometimes those with the thickest walls are protecting raw vulnerability, often those who are kind, compassionate...extra sensitive and empathetic.
Some therapists will let you sit there with those walls and even help you build them thicker! Then again, maybe some people are better off merging with the wall and keeping them permanently.
My therapist said it would be great if everyone could change from simply taking a pill rather than investing the time and money for therapy...medications can help manage symptoms, maybe the rest of your life if you are lucky, but unfortunately, the only thing even close to a cure right now is psychotherapy. But you have to find the type willing to push you in the damn pool, the same type who will then swim in the pool with you.
No more chicken/egg conversations for me-I'm off to swim! Bye!!!
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 16:21:04
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology, posted by violette on September 7, 2010, at 16:12:48
>Everyone defends against emotional pain; some people build temporary walls as needed...but some people build a thick wall and end up carrying it around with them...until it eventually becomes part of their identity...and sometimes will remain for the rest of their lives...and sometimes those with the thickest walls are protecting raw vulnerability, often those who are kind, compassionate...extra sensitive and empathetic.
This is oh so true, and sort of sad. Good post violette.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 16:54:45
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » Dinah, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 14:31:31
> Dinah, if we always settle on the "good enough mother" or "good enough" parents, will we ever strive to do what we need to do to be better parents? Don't you think we need to have a certain awareness of what it takes to be a really good parent so that we do not accept just being average or "good enough"?
http://www.pbs.org/parents/special/article-expectations-goodmother.html
I think acknowledging that we can't be perfect at mothering is good modeling for our children, who are unlikely to be perfect themselves.
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 17:00:23
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » morgan miller, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 16:54:45
> > Dinah, if we always settle on the "good enough mother" or "good enough" parents, will we ever strive to do what we need to do to be better parents? Don't you think we need to have a certain awareness of what it takes to be a really good parent so that we do not accept just being average or "good enough"?
>
> http://www.pbs.org/parents/special/article-expectations-goodmother.html
>
> I think acknowledging that we can't be perfect at mothering is good modeling for our children, who are unlikely to be perfect themselves.
>I understand. I wasn't talking about perfection, no one is perfect. I'm just talking about striving to be better as a person, for yourself and your child. I don't think there is enough emphasis on this. I also think we need to think twice before having a child, especially when it is planned. Too often people care more about having children to fulfill a personal desire than unselfishly bringing a child into the world and being as prepared as possible to be able to give that child what they need.
I'm sorry if anything I said was taking personal because you yourself are a mother. I certainly was not intending this. Again, I do not think anyone is perfect, though, I do think we can strive to be perfectly imperfect, if that makes any sense.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 17:14:55
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology, posted by violette on September 7, 2010, at 16:12:48
> SLS:
>
> I'm not interested in the answers to those questions-not because i'm not interested in what you have to say-but because i was hoping YOU would be interested in the answers!That's ironic. I thought that YOU would be interested in the answers to the questions that you yourself asked. So, you are saying that your questions were rhetorical only? Perhaps you didn't like my answers. The answers are mine and not meant to be yours.
> Everyone defends against emotional pain...
Okay. What would you say is my emotional pain? That's right! You couldn't possibly know it because you are not inside me. Neither could you possibly know my historical experiences with psychotherapy or somatic therapies. I feel that you are placing yourself on me. I hope you don't feel that I have been reciprocating. I accept you and your illness as you report them. I am very much at ease with the idea that you are not me and that your mental illness (should there be one) is not mine.
> No more chicken/egg conversations for me
Egg.
> I'm off to swim! Bye!!!
Enjoy your swim. I only wish that I had the mental and physical energy to do such things. We are indeed different.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 17:30:04
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology » violette, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 17:14:55
> > SLS:
> >
> > I'm not interested in the answers to those questions-not because i'm not interested in what you have to say-but because i was hoping YOU would be interested in the answers!
>
> That's ironic. I thought that YOU would be interested in the answers to the questions that you yourself asked. So, you are saying that your questions were rhetorical only? Perhaps you didn't like my answers. The answers are mine and not meant to be yours.
>
> > Everyone defends against emotional pain...
>
> Okay. What would you say is my emotional pain? That's right! You couldn't possibly know it because you are not inside me. Neither could you possibly know my historical experiences with psychotherapy or somatic therapies. I feel that you are placing yourself on me. I hope you don't feel that I have been reciprocating. I accept you and your illness as you report them. I am very much at ease with the idea that you are not me and that your mental illness (should there be one) is not mine.
>
> > No more chicken/egg conversations for me
>
> Egg.
>
> > I'm off to swim! Bye!!!
>
> Enjoy your swim. I only wish that I had the mental and physical energy to do such things. We are indeed different.
>
>
> - Scott
>Scott, I think violette meant to say that we all probably have some things that are psychologically/emotionally embedded in us that we would benefit from working on. I'm not so sure she was necessarily directing the comments she made diractly at you. Nor do I think that here statements were based on assumptions of who you are and what your experience has been. What is wrong with throwing out the possibility that many of us may have built protective walls a long long time ago, long before we may be able to remember exactly what was going on at the time, and these walls may be inhibiting us from being able to make progress in some areas?
I do tend to agree with most everything violette says concerning psychology and it's contributions to the pathogenesis of mental illness, as you may have already guessed.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 17:41:32
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 17:30:04
> I do tend to agree with most everything violette says concerning psychology and it's contributions to the pathogenesis of mental illness, as you may have already guessed.
And what would you guess is my position concerning the contribution of psychosocial factors to mental illness?
Actually, you don't have to guess. I have already demonstrated multiple times in words what my beliefs are. I simply don't understand why you don't acknowledge this.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 17:57:46
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 17:00:23
I didn't take it personally.
It's just that it's always possible to find imperfections in parenting, and consider that a reason for today's issues. A parent was too distant, or too engulfing. Too strict or too permissive. Depressed or anxious themselves. At some point, one has to begin to wonder whether there is flawed methodology in discovering the cause of anything, or mistaking cause for effect.
Obviously if a parent is abusive physically or emotionally, narcissistic, etc. there will be resulting mental health issues resulting solely from that. But ordinary misattunements are part of the expected range of baby experience, and shouldn't cause severe deficits in adult functioning if experienced by a healthy baby. I tend to think animals (including humans) are designed to be more resilient than that. Or at least that's my opinion.
There has never been a period of history where parenthood is more agonized an activity than it is today, when parents were so laden with instructions on how to parent or not parent. Yet I don't see that mental illness rates are going down significantly. If anything, the stress on parents to do it right probably leads to stress in kids.
I'm not saying that parents' style of parenting don't lead to issues. Of course they do. I just think good enough is good enough.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 18:45:35
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 17:00:23
I am a big believer in psychotherapy. I think the world would be way better off if both the mentally ill and the "healthy" went to years of therapy. Self awareness is a good thing.
And I can't tell you the number of times I watch "It's Me or the Dog" and shout "Of *course* your dog acts like a maniac. Can you *hear* yourself?!!!" I feel the same way about parenting...
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 18:52:15
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology » morgan miller, posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 17:41:32
> > I do tend to agree with most everything violette says concerning psychology and it's contributions to the pathogenesis of mental illness, as you may have already guessed.
>
> And what would you guess is my position concerning the contribution of psychosocial factors to mental illness?
>
> Actually, you don't have to guess. I have already demonstrated multiple times in words what my beliefs are. I simply don't understand why you don't acknowledge this.
>
>
> - ScottI do acknowledge your beliefs Scott. Just because I still express my beliefs and try to explain them, does not mean that I do not acknowledge your beliefs or think that there is any validity to them and your arguments. I sense you are frustrated, sorry if anything I said pushed any buttons.
Also, I said I believed that everyone that struggles chronically with depression or any other mental illness, does have a genetic predisposition that plays a major role. So, I have at leas come half way with your beliefs and where you believe your mental illness comes from : ) I understand you don't need me to agree or come half way, I'm just making the point that there is a part of me that understands and acknowledges your beliefs.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 19:05:56
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » morgan miller, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 17:57:46
>But ordinary misattunements are part of the expected range of baby experience, and shouldn't cause severe deficits in adult functioning if experienced by a healthy baby. I tend to think animals (including humans) are designed to be more resilient than that. Or at least that's my opinion.
How do you know that a baby is expected to be able to handle flaws in a mother and father's ability to nurture. Don't you think that if that were the case the world would be a much better place. Also, I believe that a child predisposed to mental illness has a much better chance with a very well adjusted mother and father that make it a point to do everything they can to properly love and nurture their child. As far as animals are concerned-1: they are much less complex and tend to need much less as far as nurturing a love is concerned, in this sense, they are better designed to be able to handle less. Animals act more on instincts, and very little or no emotions, depending on the animal. 2: It could be argued that our closest animal relatives, apes and chimpanzees, do a much better job of parenting in some ways than we do. The mother's always keep their children close. They know how much to protect their children and they know when to allow them to have freedom. Apes and chimpanzees love unconditionally and are not critical in anyway(I realize they can really be since they cannot speak to their children like humans can). Being human means being very complex and complicated. Thus, being a parent is a very difficult and complex job, involving tons of patience, tons of observation, tons of care, tons of dedication, and tons and tons of unconditional love.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 19:07:16
In reply to On the other hand... » morgan miller, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 18:45:35
> I am a big believer in psychotherapy. I think the world would be way better off if both the mentally ill and the "healthy" went to years of therapy. Self awareness is a good thing.
>
> And I can't tell you the number of times I watch "It's Me or the Dog" and shout "Of *course* your dog acts like a maniac. Can you *hear* yourself?!!!" I feel the same way about parenting...
>: )
Posted by emmanuel98 on September 7, 2010, at 19:35:05
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 13:26:34
The sadness was always there, I expect, but not the depression. That was an entirely different experience and had nothing whatsoever to do with being sad. I just felt dead inside. I had no hope and no interest in life, which was very unlike the rest of my life.
As far as AA'ers go, there's a very common story you hear in AA of well-loved, nurtured children who have close relationships with their parents but begin drinking/drugging at a young age to be cool and find they spiral out of control. These people tend to come in AA at quite a young age, often at 18 or 19. They're not burying deep dark secrets. They just can't handle mind-altering substances.
> Emmanuel98, do you think it is possible the depression and sadness was always lurking deep beneath the surface, basically underlying depression that you could not necessarily feel, and then at some point this inner sadness/depression came out and took hold in a way it never had before?
>
> >But in AA, I have met people who have had perfect childhoods and loving parents who nevertheless became out of control addicts and alcoholics.
>
> I hate to sound cynical here but there are many many people that claim to have had a perfect childhood and loving parents that had far from that. We have to consider what and how people define things. To them, it may have appeared to be and felt like a perfect childhood. To them, their parents may seemed to be the most loving parents they could have ever asked for. Don't get me wrong, I think AA is great, but there are so many people that go there and distract themselves with love from God and never really take the time to dissect and analyze their childhood and face the demons that may have drove them to addiction in the first place. There is a reason why denial is THE most powerful coping mechanism the human race has in it's arsenal. Can you really trust the word of someone who masked their pain and escaped reality through alcohol and drugs? Again, not trying to be cynical, just realistic. Most people idolize their parents, defending them and putting them up on a pedestal, saying they were great when in reality they really were not. Many do not realize what it truly takes to be a great parent. What many think is great is really sub par.
Posted by emmanuel98 on September 7, 2010, at 19:37:50
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 19:05:56
No parents are perfect. There's no such thing. If you're lucky, your child is easy and you have the time and energy to nurture them and give them unconditional love. As my T said, warm and loving is all you need. Parents can be crazy in many ways, but if they are warm and loving, kids will turn out okay.
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2010, at 19:52:51
In reply to Re: biology vs psychology, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 18:52:15
> > > I do tend to agree with most everything violette says concerning psychology and it's contributions to the pathogenesis of mental illness, as you may have already guessed.
> >
> > And what would you guess is my position concerning the contribution of psychosocial factors to mental illness?
> >
> > Actually, you don't have to guess. I have already demonstrated multiple times in words what my beliefs are. I simply don't understand why you don't acknowledge this.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I do acknowledge your beliefs Scott. Just because I still express my beliefs and try to explain them, does not mean that I do not acknowledge your beliefs or think that there is any validity to them and your arguments.
Let's try this again. I might be missing something important.***********************************
I believe that psychosocial stresses - even those that are present during infanthood - can contribute to the pathogenesis and persistence of mental illness.
***********************************
Was this the belief of mine that you were acknowledging?
1. Yes
2. No> I sense you are frustrated,
No. I am committed.
> sorry if anything I said pushed any buttons.
Psychobabble.
> Also, I said I believed that everyone that struggles chronically with depression or any other mental illness, does have a genetic predisposition that plays a major role. So, I have at leas come half way with your beliefs and where you believe your mental illness comes from : ) I understand you don't need me to agree or come half way, I'm just making the point that there is a part of me that understands and acknowledges your beliefs.
I am still at a loss as to recognize which of my beliefs you disagree with. Please feel free to elaborate. Where do we disagree? I honestly would like for you to answer this question just in case the answer might save time and energy.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 20:23:36
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by morgan miller on September 7, 2010, at 19:05:56
> How do you know that a baby is expected to be able to handle flaws in a mother and father's ability to nurture. Don't you think that if that were the case the world would be a much better place. Also, I believe that a child predisposed to mental illness has a much better chance with a very well adjusted mother and father that make it a point to do everything they can to properly love and nurture their child.
I think our therapies are different. My therapist would likely concentrate on the disappointment and disillusionment that come from not accepting the reality of what life is. That even the best motivated parents aren't perfect. That learning to accept that others aren't perfect (and that we aren't perfect) is an integral part of learning to be in relationship with others.
> As far as animals are concerned-1: they are much less complex and tend to need much less as far as nurturing a love is concerned, in this sense, they are better designed to be able to handle less. Animals act more on instincts, and very little or no emotions, depending on the animal. 2: It could be argued that our closest animal relatives, apes and chimpanzees, do a much better job of parenting in some ways than we do. The mother's always keep their children close. They know how much to protect their children and they know when to allow them to have freedom. Apes and chimpanzees love unconditionally and are not critical in anyway(I realize they can really be since they cannot speak to their children like humans can). Being human means being very complex and complicated. Thus, being a parent is a very difficult and complex job, involving tons of patience, tons of observation, tons of care, tons of dedication, and tons and tons of unconditional love.
Well, I'm not sure I believe in unconditional love. Perhaps I'm defining it too narrowly. I do believe that being a parent is difficult and complex, and that parents should cultivate patience, dedication, and love.
It's not my understanding that non-human primates are that uncomplex themselves. Young mothers need to learn how to be a mother, there are "aunts" and "uncles" who help out, conflict with children is not unusual during specific stages of life, and stressed out mothers can parent badly and even reject their young. Even non-primates vary widely in their parenting abilities within a species.
Posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 20:26:52
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » morgan miller, posted by Dinah on September 7, 2010, at 20:23:36
> Also, I believe that a child predisposed to mental illness has a much better chance with a very well adjusted mother and father that make it a point to do everything they can to properly love and nurture their child.
I agree with the above.
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