![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by liliths on November 16, 2006, at 14:04:45
Hi,
I need to provide documention supporting the use of opiates in treatment resistant depression. I've searched through the threads... I know I've seen links before but can't seem to find them.
I've also 'googled' for some but am hoping someone here will be able to guide me to some of the best and most recent studies.
thank you in advance for any assistance
namaste,
lilith
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 4:57:54
In reply to HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depression, posted by liliths on November 16, 2006, at 14:04:45
There was something on Hedweb let me find it...
If you move around this site there's heaps of stuff on opiates. I can't find it a t the minute but somewhere on there it says that for some people opiates are the ONLY thing that gets rid of their depression.
I used codeine for a time and it was a good antidepressant but tolerance builds FAST and you need more and more, and when it wears off you're just a headcase, so irritable you can';t even be a member of the human race, just have to hide away for a few days seething inside with these horrible flu like symptoms. Don't recommend it really.
I wish they would work on a long lasting opioid that didn't cause tolerance, I'd take it for sure.
Posted by naughtypuppy on November 17, 2006, at 9:22:24
In reply to Re: HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depressio, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 4:57:54
Probably because it's not an antidepressant. You're high, that's why you feel better.
Posted by Tom Twilight on November 17, 2006, at 10:50:04
In reply to Re: HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depressio, posted by naughtypuppy on November 17, 2006, at 9:22:24
> Probably because it's not an antidepressant. You're high, that's why you feel better.
What is the difference between something that makes you "high" (pejorative term) and something that stops you from feeling depressed?
Surely the polar opposit of depression is being High i.e. happy!
Just because something makes you happy doesn't mean its nessecerilly bad!Its just unfortunate most euphoriants we have have such horrible side effects.
The idea that anti depressants can't make you happy has led to the widespread use of horrible things like SSRIs
Sorry for slight rant, regarding Opiates Hedweb is a good suggestion.
I've heard of people having long term success on Buprenorphine for depression.Its a pity JahL doesn't post much any more, he was interested in Opiates for depression.
He had some success on Methadone
Posted by med_empowered on November 17, 2006, at 14:35:37
In reply to HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depression, posted by liliths on November 16, 2006, at 14:04:45
hi! google "temgesic" (I forget the generic term...) also, check out crazymeds.org ; one of the site's main members uses opiates (or did) for her issues, and there's some info there about costs, effectiveness, etc.
Tramadol (Ultram) is another one to google; I found a case study for as-needed tramadol in an OCD patient during Prozac titration. In that case,the patient had never been treated before, and the tramadol was withdrawn once the Prozac hit 40mgs. I imagine in more treatment-reistant cases, it would be more appropriate to keep on the tramadol (or whatever opiate) instead of going for a conventional antidepressant. Tramadol might be a good one to try out, since (in most of the US, at least) its a non-controlled substance. There *are* cases of abuse and dependendence, but the post-marketing studies seem to indicate that a) at-risk patients usually have a history of considerable opiate abuse and/or dependence; and b) true addiction (dosage escalation, tolerance, etc.) is quite uncommon. There is a withdrawal syndrome, but since tramadol is related to Effexor and has some similar reuptake characteristics, one could argue that saying ultram is "addictive" for causing withdrawal is inconsistent, since Effexor causes severe withdrawal in some people but is not seen as "addictive" by most psychiatrists.
There's also some case studies out there about oxymorphone and oxycodone for depression, anxiety, and add-on methadone for treatment-resistant schizophrenia.
Good luck!
Posted by med_empowered on November 17, 2006, at 14:38:29
In reply to HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depression, posted by liliths on November 16, 2006, at 14:04:45
its also worth noting that even though conventional antidepresants don't make people "high," they are inducing unusual brain-states...
re-uptake inhibitors can push levels of neurotransmitters to levels one would never experience naturally; one could argue, then, that this alteration in brain chemistry results in a "high without euphoria," which is probably the most pointless "high" imaginable.
Posted by liliths on November 17, 2006, at 15:02:26
In reply to Re: HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depressio, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 4:57:54
thank you aeon & Tom Twilight. I think I did see that site.
As for naughtypuppy, well, since you probably haven't had that kind of response to opiods, I suppose it's easy to think that we're just getting "high" – and I agree that's a purely subjective word anyway. But I assume you're using it to mean 'escape' rather than 'live'
Many of us DO, in fact, feel a reprieve from our depression when augmenting with these drugs. I am more focused, slightly energized and simply more willing to be alive. The kind of stuff I suppose regular people take for granted.
I'm very fortunate as I've pretty much used the same dose for years (hydrocodone - total 10-15mg a day, taken in divided doses). And I've gone off it without any problems as well.
Unfortunately, pain medication is treated as a taboo in our society, whether it's used for pain OR depression.
If it helps your depression, anxiety, or whatever it is that's running your life, then why split hairs? All this stigma and judgement. I guess you'd just have to experience it to understand
I have considered asking my pdoc about Buprenorphine as I'm concerned about all the dirty stuff in my meds affecting my liver. But honestly I worry about the long term effects of being on any meds anyway. Though I don't see an alternative, not one that includes staying alive... sigh.
thanks again for your help. There is a lot of documentation out there but I know there used to be a number of people here using them and thought it was worth a shot.
namaste,
lilith> There was something on Hedweb let me find it...
>
> http://www.opioids.com/
>
> If you move around this site there's heaps of stuff on opiates. I can't find it a t the minute but somewhere on there it says that for some people opiates are the ONLY thing that gets rid of their depression.
>
> I used codeine for a time and it was a good antidepressant but tolerance builds FAST and you need more and more, and when it wears off you're just a headcase, so irritable you can';t even be a member of the human race, just have to hide away for a few days seething inside with these horrible flu like symptoms. Don't recommend it really.
>
> I wish they would work on a long lasting opioid that didn't cause tolerance, I'd take it for sure.
>
-----------------------------
> > Probably because it's not an antidepressant. You're high, that's why you feel better.
>
> What is the difference between something that makes you "high" (pejorative term) and something that stops you from feeling depressed?
>
> Surely the polar opposit of depression is being High i.e. happy!
> Just because something makes you happy doesn't mean its nessecerilly bad!
>
> Its just unfortunate most euphoriants we have have such horrible side effects.
>
> The idea that anti depressants can't make you happy has led to the widespread use of horrible things like SSRIs
>
> Sorry for slight rant, regarding Opiates Hedweb is a good suggestion.
> I've heard of people having long term success on Buprenorphine for depression.
>
> Its a pity JahL doesn't post much any more, he was interested in Opiates for depression.
>
> He had some success on Methadone
Posted by liliths on November 17, 2006, at 15:05:55
In reply to Re: HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depressio, posted by med_empowered on November 17, 2006, at 14:35:37
thank you so much for your help! :)
namaste,
lilith> hi! google "temgesic" (I forget the generic term...) also, check out crazymeds.org ; one of the site's main members uses opiates (or did) for her issues, and there's some info there about costs, effectiveness, etc.
>
> Tramadol (Ultram) is another one to google; I found a case study for as-needed tramadol in an OCD patient during Prozac titration. In that case,the patient had never been treated before, and the tramadol was withdrawn once the Prozac hit 40mgs. I imagine in more treatment-reistant cases, it would be more appropriate to keep on the tramadol (or whatever opiate) instead of going for a conventional antidepressant. Tramadol might be a good one to try out, since (in most of the US, at least) its a non-controlled substance. There *are* cases of abuse and dependendence, but the post-marketing studies seem to indicate that a) at-risk patients usually have a history of considerable opiate abuse and/or dependence; and b) true addiction (dosage escalation, tolerance, etc.) is quite uncommon. There is a withdrawal syndrome, but since tramadol is related to Effexor and has some similar reuptake characteristics, one could argue that saying ultram is "addictive" for causing withdrawal is inconsistent, since Effexor causes severe withdrawal in some people but is not seen as "addictive" by most psychiatrists.
>
> There's also some case studies out there about oxymorphone and oxycodone for depression, anxiety, and add-on methadone for treatment-resistant schizophrenia.
>
> Good luck!
Posted by Declan on November 17, 2006, at 16:38:57
In reply to Being High VS not being depressed, posted by Tom Twilight on November 17, 2006, at 10:50:04
Most euphoriants show bad side effects when excessively refined. Coca is a non-problem. Opium is a handleable one. We are dealing with a side effect of science here. At leat coca and opium have been road tested.
Posted by Tom Twilight on November 17, 2006, at 17:27:09
In reply to Re: HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depressio, posted by liliths on November 17, 2006, at 15:02:26
Hey Lilith
I'd just like to mention your babblemail is turned off, perhapse intentionally :)
I'm finding it really interesting that you've had success on Opiates for your depression.
Did the depression include anxiety?
Anxiety is my main problem
Its funny how there are "Good" drugs for mental illness i.e. ADs and mood stabalisers
Then there are "Bad" drugs like Cannabis and Opiates.It just strikes me as odd because Cannabis really helps my anxiety.
Sadly I live in the UK were Psychiatry is still in the Dark Ages!Having said all that I used to be a big proponent of GHB, till I had to withdraw from it Ow!
Posted by Declan on November 17, 2006, at 19:07:07
In reply to Re: Being High VS not being depressed, posted by Declan on November 17, 2006, at 16:38:57
Interesting to think about what they will say about our psych drugs in 100 years.
I'm OK with toxicity if there's value in other departments.
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 19:59:45
In reply to Being High VS not being depressed, posted by Tom Twilight on November 17, 2006, at 10:50:04
I totally agree, there is an "opiate" theory to depression. Many of the SSRI's and TCA's share common opioid mechanisms.
Opiates need not make you high. It is possable to take enought to relieve depression without feeling high or or being intoxicated. The same thing goes with marajuanna. A few puffs eased anxiety, and insomnia like no other med, but was completely insufficiant to induce euphoria.
It is conterproductive for us to be trying to quanitfy hapiness such ridged categories. The SSRI's are useless for many people's deep melancholy, which leaves them 1 of 3 options.
1. Suffer
2. Commit suicide
3. Take drugs that they know will help.People's main excuse is....well that relief is going to be temporary so why bother.
The same thing goes for Electro Convulsive Therapy. Its effects are often only temporary, get you can get a doctor to thrust this brain dammaging option on you.
So I get addicted to opitates, so what? They're probably kinder on the body and brain than SSRI's, and they might work in the process.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 20:07:34
In reply to Re: Being High VS not being depressed, posted by Declan on November 17, 2006, at 19:07:07
There have been acounts of direct comparisons between opiate withdrawl and SSRI withdrawl.
I have endured both and can say that opiate withdrawl was by far an easier battle.
Same thing goes with benzo's. I've been on and of clonazepam no problem, but I am still withdrawing from zoloft, who knows how many years later.
Doctors know the SSRI's are addictive, but they've only got to keep quiet about it untill the next generation of substances replaces them.
Benzo withdrawl just made me anxious. SSRI withdrawl made me want to jump off the nearest bridge, yet benzo's are addictive and SSRI's are not??
Clearly doctors have a hard time distinguishing whats what.
Linkadge
Posted by liliths on November 18, 2006, at 7:33:20
In reply to Bad drugs-Lilith and Declan+Everyone else, posted by Tom Twilight on November 17, 2006, at 17:27:09
Hi Tom,
no actually, I didn't know it was off. I've been on this board for so long, I wasn't even aware of it, but I just changed my settings and am good to go. But as I get so much spam, if you want to email me, just make sure the subject lets me know it's you :)
my 'diagnosis' includes ADD, major depression & anxiety. That's my pdoc's take. My therapist includes PTSD.
I agree about how weird it is that 'they' get to say what's 'good' or 'bad' for you, considering the hideous side effects some of the 'good' drugs carry.
My cocktail is unique (as are we all :) and I won't say I'm in remission BUT I shudder to think what I might be like given the current stressful circumstances of my life without my meds.
Currently I take focalin, klonopin, wellbutrin, buspar, & hydocodone. The buspar does nothing for my anxiety, but for some reason has an effect on my depression. I read somewhere that it works by stimulating serotonin type 1A receptors on nerves. All I know is that I've titrated off it 3 times and all 3 times I felt a definite increase in my depression. I figure it balances the wellbutrin, which works on dopamine and norepinephrine. This way I've got all my '3 tenors' (as I once saw them referred to on this board) perhaps in better harmony. I love that analogy :)
It really is a shame you can't use Cannabis if it helps. It makes me extraordinarily 'self-conscious' - my mind goes on overdrive
But that's the crux of the problem isn't it? That we ARE all different. I've been on some of the drugs I now take before, only singularly, with no results. It seems to be the combination that helps. Is there something that might work better? Possibly. But am I going to play around with it? Well, I went back to school last year and being worried about my mental acuity, I tapered way down on the wellbutrin (I've had word-finding difficulties), cut my klonopin down a bit (used that extra one for panic attacks LOL), and even went off the hydrocodone for awhile. I felt I needed every edge possible to get through school. And the stress was unbelievable. Mostly self-imposed of course. I wanted to make sure nothing was 'dulling' me. But the point being that I 'could' and without any adverse effects. I also took 'smart supplements' throughout and continue to do so with my afternoon meds. Figure perhaps it helps the focalin and the hydrocodone. Who knows?
with everything I've read, I do find it interesting that I haven't had to increase my opoid dosage. When I do, like if needed for pain, I definitely feel it differently
I think the U.S. is as much in the dark ages as the U.K. You've read how most people veiw using opiods. I can't even fill a prescription for pain meds from my dentist, unless I get something REALLY strong written, as they won't fill 2 pain med scripts that are similar. It's a good thing I went off them for awhile as I was able to amass enough for when I am in pain.
Hope my rambling has been of some help :)
namaste,
lilith> Hey Lilith
>
> I'd just like to mention your babblemail is turned off, perhapse intentionally :)
>
> I'm finding it really interesting that you've had success on Opiates for your depression.
>
> Did the depression include anxiety?
>
> Anxiety is my main problem
>
> Its funny how there are "Good" drugs for mental illness i.e. ADs and mood stabalisers
> Then there are "Bad" drugs like Cannabis and Opiates.
>
> It just strikes me as odd because Cannabis really helps my anxiety.
> Sadly I live in the UK were Psychiatry is still in the Dark Ages!
>
> Having said all that I used to be a big proponent of GHB, till I had to withdraw from it Ow!
>
>
>
Posted by liliths on November 18, 2006, at 7:39:39
In reply to Re: Being High VS not being depressed, posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 20:07:34
I agree with everything you've written as they mirror my own experiences. Sounds like we have similar chemistry :)
It is nice to find 'open' minds here. I'm grateful I posted my question, if only for the support. I get so tired of having to explain and fight for my right to take what helps. Currently going up against it right now, which I why I need to have good documentation in place. My pdoc prescribes what works - I know I'm lucky to have found him. But there are others who would prefer to control that. I'll learn soon enough how much 'they' can get away with.. sigh
namaste,
lilith> There have been acounts of direct comparisons between opiate withdrawl and SSRI withdrawl.
>
> I have endured both and can say that opiate withdrawl was by far an easier battle.
>
> Same thing goes with benzo's. I've been on and of clonazepam no problem, but I am still withdrawing from zoloft, who knows how many years later.
>
> Doctors know the SSRI's are addictive, but they've only got to keep quiet about it untill the next generation of substances replaces them.
>
> Benzo withdrawl just made me anxious. SSRI withdrawl made me want to jump off the nearest bridge, yet benzo's are addictive and SSRI's are not??
>
> Clearly doctors have a hard time distinguishing whats what.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by pseudoname on November 18, 2006, at 11:57:40
In reply to HELP! Need Documentation on opiates depression, posted by liliths on November 16, 2006, at 14:04:45
buprenorphine for depression: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/buprenorphine_for_de_001146748536/
You may want to look at this Babble Tips page of links I put together about buprenorphine (Subutex®, Buprenex®), an opioid used in the U.S. mostly to treat people in opioid addiction recovery programs. There are links to copies of 4 studies using buprenorphine to treat depressives in non-addicts. I have taken buprenorphine since November of last year, and it saved my life. (Google ‘buprenorphine psychobabble’ for threads about my experience and some others'.)
It is not a perfect fix for me, and now, a year later, either my life is getting worse (my theory) or bupe is pooping out (also possible), and I am looking for additional help. But I would not have survived the last year without it, or, ironically, have had the energy and willpower to pursue other treatments.
Buprenorphine does not make me high. I have never had an opioid buzz from it (or anything else). It just takes away my depression, especially the worst, most painful troughs. Exactly 90 minutes after taking bupe, suicidal thoughts suddenly go away, and I think, "Why on earth did I want to kill myself?!"
I have experienced intermittent mild physical dependency (sweats when I go without it for 2 days, e.g.), but I do not get cravings for it. I have gone off of it three times in the last year for periods of at least 10 days; withdrawal symptoms were minimal to none. I can confidently assert that withdrawal from it is not as bad as Effexor or many other ADs.
Some people have not found buprenorphine effective, and some have reported poop-out. It also carries with it, at the very least initially, typical opioid side-effects and should be started with care. Constipation was the biggest problem for me. Despite its limits in my own case, I strongly recommend that treatment-resistant depressives who are interested in it inform themselves & their doctors about buprenorphine and consider it.
Babble's famous Elizabeth(our psychopharmacological goddess, as Declan has called her), finally found relief from depression in bupe. I would certainly give bupe a try before doing VNS or even ECT (which I am also currently considering).
Posted by liliths on November 18, 2006, at 14:33:27
In reply to consider buprenorphine » liliths, posted by pseudoname on November 18, 2006, at 11:57:40
Thank you so much!
I know what you mean about not being sure if the meds are still working or it's just that life's dumping on you. I'm pretty much in the same place but I'm fairly sure it's what's going on in my life that's taking me down. The bad part is that my reaction to it has me in a nose-dive I'm not sure I'll be able to pull out of. But I definitely wouldn't have made it this far without the benefits of my 'full' cocktail. I may not be doing a very good job of living, but I'm still alive.
The way you related your experience really resonated with me - I'd just love to think (and mean it! :): "why on earth did I want to kill myself?"
I'll bring it up with my pdoc and see how he responds after my current nightmare is resolved. I don't want to make any changes while I'm having to defend the ones I'm already on.
In a nutshell, I graduated from school for Massage Therapy with high honors in May, aced my boards scoring "high" in all content areas in August and when I filled out the form to the Dept. of Health for my license, was honest about being treated for depression/add/anxiety. My pdoc told me they weren't allowed to discriminate against me and I did believe my records would speak for themselves, including the documentation I provided.
HAH! They referred me into a system for Impaired Practitioners. I had to have a psychiatric evaluation from one of their doctors (at my own expense) and as I was leaving the eval, this pdoc sprung a "verified" drug test as part of the process (of course, also at my own expense). Want to feel degraded? Go urinate in front of a lab tech, whose job is to 'closely watch'
I've barely left the house for months. I got the 'results' of the evaluation and it was good, except that, of course, he wants to change my meds! Writes that I'm doing well on my current regimen but he doesn't see the need for the hydrocodone or the klonopin. How much sense does THAT make? Gee... she's doing well on her meds, she must not need them? Isn't that usually considered a sign of a severe disorder? sheesh..
All my paperwork still needs to go before a committee before a final determination is made:
a) they could deny me a license for any or no reason
b) they could just grant me the damn thing
c) they can make me sign a contract for a 'conditional' license, meaning I'd have to submit documentation of continued treatment
d) see c) BUT they can also make me have another interview with the Massage Review Board before issuing the license and they don't meet again until the end of Januaryc) or d) are the most likely outcomes. My biggest concern is his 'recommendation'. I don't know if they can make issuing me a license provisional on changing my meds. Which I won't do.
It's been so long since I've even done anything and I have been so broken by this process, I honestly don't even see myself practicing anymore.
anyway, I 'should' hear from them in a few weeks.
sorry for spilling... this is something I won't really talk about with anyone I know. I simply can't discuss it without getting hysterical, furious, feeling ashamed and crying. I do that daily with myself anyway. No sense embarrassing myself further. It's hard enough to go out. Dealing with talking about this would make it impossible
well if you've actually made it this far, I honestly want to thank you for reading.
and thanks again for the links, you've been very helpful :)
namaste,
lilith
> buprenorphine for depression: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/buprenorphine_for_de_001146748536/
>
> You may want to look at this Babble Tips page of links I put together about buprenorphine (Subutex®, Buprenex®), an opioid used in the U.S. mostly to treat people in opioid addiction recovery programs. There are links to copies of 4 studies using buprenorphine to treat depressives in non-addicts. I have taken buprenorphine since November of last year, and it saved my life. (Google ‘buprenorphine psychobabble’ for threads about my experience and some others'.)
>
> It is not a perfect fix for me, and now, a year later, either my life is getting worse (my theory) or bupe is pooping out (also possible), and I am looking for additional help. But I would not have survived the last year without it, or, ironically, have had the energy and willpower to pursue other treatments.
>
> Buprenorphine does not make me high. I have never had an opioid buzz from it (or anything else). It just takes away my depression, especially the worst, most painful troughs. Exactly 90 minutes after taking bupe, suicidal thoughts suddenly go away, and I think, "Why on earth did I want to kill myself?!"
>
> I have experienced intermittent mild physical dependency (sweats when I go without it for 2 days, e.g.), but I do not get cravings for it. I have gone off of it three times in the last year for periods of at least 10 days; withdrawal symptoms were minimal to none. I can confidently assert that withdrawal from it is not as bad as Effexor or many other ADs.
>
> Some people have not found buprenorphine effective, and some have reported poop-out. It also carries with it, at the very least initially, typical opioid side-effects and should be started with care. Constipation was the biggest problem for me. Despite its limits in my own case, I strongly recommend that treatment-resistant depressives who are interested in it inform themselves & their doctors about buprenorphine and consider it.
>
> Babble's famous Elizabeth(our psychopharmacological goddess, as Declan has called her), finally found relief from depression in bupe. I would certainly give bupe a try before doing VNS or even ECT (which I am also currently considering).
Posted by naughtypuppy on November 19, 2006, at 13:14:31
In reply to Being High VS not being depressed, posted by Tom Twilight on November 17, 2006, at 10:50:04
> > Probably because it's not an antidepressant. You're high, that's why you feel better.
>
> What is the difference between something that makes you "high" (pejorative term) and something that stops you from feeling depressed?
>
> Surely the polar opposit of depression is being High i.e. happy!
> Just because something makes you happy doesn't mean its nessecerilly bad!The point I was tring to make is that the goal is to cure the depression instead of mearly masking it. It is much better to releave the pain of a broken arm by having it properly heal that to mask it with narcotics and keep reinjuring it. Wouldn'it be a hoot if it was true that there was a disfunction of the opiate system that caused depression. Funding for depression reasearch would dry up so fast that the mental health organizations would have have bottle drives just to run themselves. Look how long it took them to take seriously that dopamine could be asociated with depression since it was considered a "bad" neurotransmitter unlike serotonin, since it was involved in the activity of substances such as methamphetamine and cocaine. PS, just thought I'd stir the pot up a bit since people get really touchy about this topic for some reason beyond my comprehension.
>
> Its just unfortunate most euphoriants we have have such horrible side effects.
>
> The idea that anti depressants can't make you happy has led to the widespread use of horrible things like SSRIs
>
> Sorry for slight rant, regarding Opiates Hedweb is a good suggestion.
> I've heard of people having long term success on Buprenorphine for depression.
>
> Its a pity JahL doesn't post much any more, he was interested in Opiates for depression.
>
> He had some success on Methadone
>
>
Posted by pseudoname on November 19, 2006, at 16:07:27
In reply to Re: consider buprenorphine » pseudoname, posted by liliths on November 18, 2006, at 14:33:27
Hey, lillith.
> sorry for spilling... Dealing with talking about this would make it impossible
Well, I'm glad you shared. You've had an outrageous ordeal! I'm so sorry for you being in that situation. And pdocs can make such dumb decisions -- taking you off your meds because you're doing well! OMG. Arrgh!
> Thank you so much!
You're very welcome. I encourage people to print out the studies on that Tips page and show them to their docs if they're interested in buprenorphine.
> I've barely left the house for months.
Been there.
> c) or d) are the most likely outcomes. My biggest concern is his 'recommendation'.
I don't envy you dealing with bureaucracy or all-powerful, arbitrary pdocs. Best of luck with it all. I draw encouragement from my next-door neighbor, who was fired -- and PROSECUTED -- for job-related problems. But he got a good attorney, counter-sued, got his unemployment benefits, got almost all of the charges dropped, and is even on track to getting re-hired (according to insiders). So winning against these faceless behemoths CAN happen. Keep the faith. I hope your situation improves soon. For that matter, I hope mine does, too! lol :-)
> and thanks again for the links, you've been very helpful :)
Thanks for saying so.
Posted by liliths on November 20, 2006, at 12:20:03
In reply to “spilling” » liliths, posted by pseudoname on November 19, 2006, at 16:07:27
hello... you can't imagine (though probably you can) how comforting it is to read your words :)
at this point I'm just waiting to hear from the 'committee'. The person I'm working with at PRN (Physicians Resource Network: the name of this faceless machine) assures me 'the worst is over'. Easy for her to say, I know, though she has been quite nice and supportive each time I grow hysterical on her LOL
I only hope they're not allowed to 'demand' I make medication changes to accommodate them, because I simply won't... and yes, I guess at that point I would have to look into taking legal action. All this for a lousy license I earned the right for months ago! And as I've said, the experience has destroyed my interest, as well as my memories, of practicing. I've forgotten most of it from sheer stress alone, much less the passage of time. I'm definitely of the 'don't use it, lose it' ilk
Their pdoc based his opinions on a single visit, while I've been working with mine for 5 years.
Since treating depression with anything unusual seems to throw them, I doubt they'd take my interest in buprenorphine seriously. More likely, since it's usually used to treat opoid addicton, they'd think I was 'addicted' to my pain meds and REALLY put me through the wringer. As it is, I'm NOT listed as a substance abuser... not yet anyway
I try to laugh but really I no longer give a damn. I'm in that place that says if I don't get back up, they can't knock me down again. Hopefully that will improve. If not, well, I've already lived a full and long life with nothing to look forward to. And I just need to feel 'in control' of something. I'm not making threats. I wouldn't do that to anyone... particularly someone like you who has been so helpful :) But it IS always with me as an option.
I will post an update - probably on this thread - when the initial verdict comes in. Maybe I'll be REALLY lucky and they'll just issue me my license! No harm in being optimistic (on 'paper' anyway)
I've come down with some bug - a perfect excuse to withdraw - though frustrating. Certainly not helping my mood
I hope things pick up for you!!!
If I may ask, how much buprenorphine are you currently taking and what else do you take?
here's to good luck for both of us!!
namaste,
lilith> Hey, lillith.
>
> > sorry for spilling... Dealing with talking about this would make it impossible
>
> Well, I'm glad you shared. You've had an outrageous ordeal! I'm so sorry for you being in that situation. And pdocs can make such dumb decisions -- taking you off your meds because you're doing well! OMG. Arrgh!
>
> > Thank you so much!
>
> You're very welcome. I encourage people to print out the studies on that Tips page and show them to their docs if they're interested in buprenorphine.
>
> > I've barely left the house for months.
>
> Been there.
>
> > c) or d) are the most likely outcomes. My biggest concern is his 'recommendation'.
>
> I don't envy you dealing with bureaucracy or all-powerful, arbitrary pdocs. Best of luck with it all. I draw encouragement from my next-door neighbor, who was fired -- and PROSECUTED -- for job-related problems. But he got a good attorney, counter-sued, got his unemployment benefits, got almost all of the charges dropped, and is even on track to getting re-hired (according to insiders). So winning against these faceless behemoths CAN happen. Keep the faith. I hope your situation improves soon. For that matter, I hope mine does, too! lol :-)
>
> > and thanks again for the links, you've been very helpful :)
>
> Thanks for saying so.
Posted by Declan on November 20, 2006, at 12:54:42
In reply to Re: Being High VS not being depressed, posted by linkadge on November 17, 2006, at 19:59:45
I've never got the hang of poopout, but if there were lots of mealancholics using opiates there would surely be lots of complaints about it.
But then PN isn't complaining, so maybe I'm wrong.
Posted by Declan on November 20, 2006, at 13:00:41
In reply to Re: Being High VS not being depressed » Tom Twilight, posted by naughtypuppy on November 19, 2006, at 13:14:31
It's a great idea. It's not even impossible. But where, and who? Nothing on this board, IMO, is going to do much except overcorrect.
And you need lots of money. The shaman/Peru option is easy compared to that.
This is the end of the thread.
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