![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2005, at 17:14:14
In reply to The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 4, 2005, at 13:38:38
Katie; I respect you for your honesty. You really don't want to have a DX of schizophrenia because it makes it difficult to have a job, and what if you want to have children? Some of those meds can be harmful, plus a lot of docs would advise against having any as it is hereditary. I think you were "on target" when you said your mom was cold. That would make you feel that you have to go to extraordinary means to get her attention and the love you want. I hope I interpreted this right. Also, maybe you are not depressed anymore because you have told this story. Didn't the seroquel make you very tired? Love Phillipa xxxxxxxPS I too, have experienced many of the things you have especially in re to a cold mom.
Posted by ed_uk on February 5, 2005, at 13:06:57
In reply to The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 4, 2005, at 13:38:38
Hello Katie :-D
>I'm going up to 15mg Abilify and I'm gradually coming off the Seroquel over like a week or so (maybe bit more).
Wow, a week is fast. Don't reduce the Seroquel too fast! You don't want to be itching and feeling sick! Take it slowly.
>But the truth is, I WANT to have a diagnosis, I want to have something serious like manic depression or schizophrenia.
I used to want a diagnosis too. I felt like people wouldn't take my problems seriously unless I had one. I also wanted to be able to use it as an 'excuse' for some of my behaviour- like the time I threw the toilet seat out of the bathroom window.
>I have found out that my mum is a very different character to me. She is not at all affectionate and quite cold.
I can imagine that you are quite affectionate, is that right? Is your dad affectionate?
>And over the years, I think I worked out that to get attention I had to be good. Good at things.
I have also felt the need to be good at something. Sometimes I have felt that if I wasn't the best then I was nothing. I know this was a stupid way to think but I couldn't help it. I have never felt the need to be good at everything. I've always needed to be 'the best' at ONE thing though. I tend to obsess about that ONE thing at the exclusion of everything else. Sometimes I feel like if I'm not the best at anything then I'm worthless.
>Katie plus 10 A*s..
Wow, you did better than me! I got 7A*s and 3As.
> I feel like people won't want me or accept me if I don't get a diagnosis.
I will :-) Most people feel the opposite about being diagnosed with schizophrenia. They worry that people won't accept them anymore if they're diagnosed with schizophrenia. People on p-babble will accept you whether you're diagnosed with schizophrenia or not ........and so will your family and friends.
> I just desperately want it to be the case that I have something definitive.
Katie, you *do* have a definate problem, but you need to accept that no psychiatric diagnosis is definate. Because psychiatric diagnosis is based on reported symptoms and behaviours, all psychiatric diagnoses are somewhat vague and subjective. Different pdocs will diagnose the same patient with different conditions. Making a psychiatric diagnosis is essentially a judgement call. Your symptoms are real and you have suffered definate mental illness, you do not need a diagnosis to tell you that. In the USA, things are different. People *need* a diagnosis in order for their insurance company to pay for their medical treatment! It's not like that in the UK because we have the NHS, there is less emphasis on categorising people's problems and labelling people. Mental health problems are always unique. Two people with the same diagnosis may have very different problems! Psych diagnoses are not specific medical conditions, they are based on clusters of symptoms which tend to occur together. People who are 'undiagnosable' can have equally serious mental health problems as those who have been diagnosed. You *know* that you have had delusions and so you *know* that you have suffered from a mental health problem. You don't need a diagnosis to tell you that. Schizophrenia is not a highly specific medical condition like cytic fibrosis or myasthenia gravis, it is rather vague diagnosis which is diffiucult to define- as are all mental health problems. There is no definate test for schizophrenia, and different psychiatrists will define it in slightly different ways. Although schizophrenia may be related to genetic factors in many cases, there is no gene for schizophrenia. No one gene will ever correspond exactly to a subjectively defined mental condition, different genes may be involved in different people. In some people, many genes may be involved. In others, their schizophrenia may not be related to genetic factors at all! In contrast, a person who's problems are currently undiagnosable might in future be found to have a specific genetic condition. Try not to worry too much about diagnosis. Diagnosing schizophrenia is a bit like saying 'we know you've got a chronic psychotic illness but we don't know why.' Diagnosis isn't even particularly useful for predicting which treatments will work. In Psychoatry, medication choice is generally based on symptoms, not diagnosis. Delusions are usually treated with antipsychotics whatever the diagnosis is! It doesn't matter whether you pdoc labels you with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, delusional disorder, schizophreniform disorder, brief psychotic disorder, psychotic depression or psychotic disorder NOS. These categories are not specific, they overlap with each other greatly. This does not mean that mental illness is not real, it simply means that it is difficult, if not impossible to classify. People's mental health problems are often very individual, they do not fit easily into discreet categories! At the moment, most psychiatrist base their diagnosis on the DSM or the ICD. These systems are not perfect, but they are the best we've got at the moment! If you look on google you can read the DSM diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders.
I hope I have encouraged you that you do not even need a 'definate' diagnosis. Because of the stigma atteched to schizophrenia, you might be better off sticking with psychotic disorder NOS!!
>even if that means no diagnosis
You already have a diagnosis: psychotic disorder NOS. You don't need another one :-)
>And now when she finds out one is not true, and I know that the second was not a solid firm belief, so does that mean I'm not really ill?
Of course not!! You have had other delusions like the one about your cousin. I expect that your pdoc decided to write about the mindreading delsion because mindreading delsions were traditionally thought to be especially characteristic of schizophrenia. Without this delusion, your pdoc may be less likely to diagnose schizophrenia and more likly to diagnose something else eg. delusional disorder. The mindreading delusion is one of the so-called SCHNEIDERIAN FIRST-RANK SYMPTOMS ie. thought broadcasting.
http://www.driesen.com/glossary_s-t.htm#SCHNEIDERIAN%20FIRST-RANK%20SYMPTOMS%20(FRS)
If a person has 'bizarre' delusions they are likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, schizophreniform disorder or schizoaffective disorder.
Schizophrenia http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/schiz.htm
Paranoid schizophrenia
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/paranoidschiz.htmschizophreniform disorder (brief episode of schizophrenia-like illness)
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/schizophreniformdis.htmSchizoaffective disorder
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/schizoaffectivedis.htmPeople who ONLY have non-bizzare delusions are more likely to be diagnosed with delusional disorder.
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/delusionaldis.htm
People who's delusions are closely associated with their depression are likely to be diagnosed with psychotic depression.
Major depressive episode
http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/mjrdepep.htmWith psychotic features eg.
Mood-Congruent Psychotic Features: Delusions or hallucinations whose content is entirely consistent with the typical depressive themes of personal inadequacy, guilt, disease, death, nihilism, or deserved punishment.
A bizzare delusion is a delusion where something believes something which is completely impossible eg. 'My mother is controlling my thoughts with a remote control'.A non-bizzare delusion is a delusion where something belives something which *could* be true- but certainly isn't eg. 'I was raped by my cousin.'
A depressive delusion is a delusion with a depressive theme eg. 'I am responsible for the Tsunami disaster.'
> I know there were loads of others that she hasn't specifically mentioned, but she obviously thought these two were the most important and now she will be angry with me, and worse still, consider me not ill.
She certainly won't consider you not to be ill! She knows that you have had other delusions. Pdocs get used to being lied to! She won't be angry, I'm sure of it. It's good that you've decided to be honest with her, you will get better treatment if you are honest :-)
> I feel worried too that you lot will be dissapointed with me. That you will feel I've deceived you in some way.
Of course not! I don't feel that you deceived me at all :-) Don't worry xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Before, it read psychotic NOS - is that non-specific psychosis??
Yes, it means 'psychotic disorder not otherwise specified.' It is a DSM diagnosis, rather than an ICD diagnosis.
>What does it mean "psychotic illness with depressive features?". What diagnoses could it include other than the obvious schizophrenia that I want?
It simply means that you are psychotic (because you have had delusions) and that you have suffered from depression at the same time.
Diagnoses could include: Psychotic depression, schizophrenia, delusional disorder, schizoaffective disorder, psychotic disorder NOS, schizophreniform disorder.>I hope you will admire me for being honest?
Yes, I admire you very much :-)
>By the way, do you think my pdoc will be angry when she reads the letter?
No! Not at all. She will not be angry or dissapointed. Lots of people want a diagnosis, you are not alone :-)
Ed xxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by elizabeth22 on February 5, 2005, at 14:32:40
In reply to The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 4, 2005, at 13:38:38
Hi pretty paints, I just wanted to let you know I can really relate to your post. I hope you don't mind me replying even though I haven't properly 'spoken' to you before.
I've been diagnosed with mixed anxiety and depressive disorder, but I also wanted a diagnosis of something more 'serious' like manic depression. I read loads of info about it on the internet and convinced myself I had it - now, maybe I've had some of the symptoms but I've never been diagnosed with it and now realise I probably don't need to be! Now I just try and think about my 'symptoms' in a different way - maybe I'm just someone that has big moodswings and can feel very agitated at times, and these feelings are still real even if they don't have a diagnosis attached. You know and people close to you know that you have a mental illness and I think if they care now they will still care whatver diagnosis you end up with.
I agree with ed_uk that diagnoses aren't all that important and are really just something to base treatment on. Recently I've started to realise that the only reason I'd need a manic depression diagnosis is to help my doctor choose medication. As I seem to be doing OK on antidepressants alone, plain old depression it is!
For me I think the main reason I wanted a diagnosis was I needed some kind of explanation for all the disruptions to my life. Being depressed made me give up my job, among other things, and I felt there had to be a REASON for all this I could tell people. I think there can be a stigma attached to 'just' being depressed as people think you're just a miserable kind of person or should stop moping, whereas e.g. with schizophrenia people don't question that it's an illness. I often think of my depression as a character flaw (I know I shouldn't), whereas if I had a more obviously biological illness like manic depression I wouldn't blame myself - it would be out of my control and I could separate it from myself better.
I suppose I also wanted an 'excuse' for not working, and spending some time just getting better and being depressed just didn't seem to be good enough. I can really relate to what you said about always needing to achieve and prove yourself. I was interested to read that you went to Cambridge, as I did too. I suppose I've always been quite hard on myself and often compare myself to all the amazingly talented people I know!
So, thanks for posting such an interesting point and I think you're brave for sharing your feelings.
Posted by pretty_paints on February 5, 2005, at 15:05:29
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth » pretty_paints, posted by elizabeth22 on February 5, 2005, at 14:32:40
Hi guys,
********************
Phillipa - Hi Phillipa, I know what you're saying about the bad sides of schizophrenia. I know. But even so, I can't help feeling like I do. It's annoying.
********************
Ed - Thank you so much! I thought you were gonna be really offy with me and ignore my post. The stuff you said made sense, and hopefully in time I will be okay with no diagnosis. I see that the diagnosis isn't really too important. You're totally right though about it being a way to explain things. The times I've gotten really depressed have been because I've been trying to move forward and sort out my life and then I can't help wondering what the hell went wrong with it and why my mind is always a mess. The idea that something external is making me ill is a BIG relief. It takes the pressure off totally. And it gives me an answer for things.
By the way, I really like the way you post, putting in the other person's comments and then responding to them. It's good!! I like it!! So let me have a try :)
>Wow, a week is fast.Yes, I will try to cut down more gradually than that. I was just guessing.
>I also wanted to be able to use it as an 'excuse' for some of my behaviour- like the time I threw the toilet seat out of the bathroom window.
YES. TOTALLY.
>I can imagine that you are quite affectionate, is that right? Is your dad affectionate?
Yes, we both are very affectionate and find it hard to relate to my mum.
>I got 7A*s and 3As.
That's BRILLIANT too! Am v impressed. Glad to know I'm not the only one. I went to such a crap school and they made me feel like a freak.
>People on p-babble will accept you whether you're diagnosed with schizophrenia or not ........and so will your family and friends.
Mmm I guess so.
>At the moment, most psychiatrist base their diagnosis on the DSM or the ICD.
What's the ICD??
>I expect that your pdoc decided to write about the mindreading delsion because mindreading delsions were traditionally thought to be especially characteristic of schizophrenia. Without this delusion, your pdoc may be less likely to diagnose schizophrenia and more likly to diagnose something else eg. delusional disorder. The mindreading delusion is one of the so-called SCHNEIDERIAN FIRST-RANK SYMPTOMS ie. thought broadcasting.
I found this really interesting. Do you have any other examples of bizarre delusions? You see, the consultant I saw said my delusions were "bizarre", yet she had read my letter and knew that the mindreading thing was a lie. I can't think of any delusions I've had that have been bizarre (according to this criteria on your link). I PREVIOUSLY thought a couple were bizarre, once I had become well. But now I see that they're not, because even though they were weird and a bit crazy, they weren't IMPOSSIBLE. So I am confused about this. I will maybe ask the consultant.
Is it impossible to get a diagnosis of schizophrenia without bizarre delusions?
>People who's delusions are closely associated with their depression are likely to be diagnosed with psychotic depression.
Can you give me some examples of depressive delusions more specifically (if you know them)? Thanks!
>No! Not at all. She will not be angry or dissapointed. Lots of people want a diagnosis, you are not alone :-)
Thank you for reassuring me!!
********************
Elizabeth - Thanks for your post
>I hope you don't mind me replying even though I haven't properly 'spoken' to you before.
No, not at all!!
>I've been diagnosed with mixed anxiety and depressive disorder, but I also wanted a diagnosis of something more 'serious' like manic depression.
Thank God! I've found someone else like me! I thought I was the only person who felt like this. I read babble and hear people going "oh I hate meds," "I wish I could be off meds," "I hate being diagnosed with [whatever]," "I just want to be normal!" And I TOTALLY don't feel like that. So I'm sooo glad you feel similar :) Phew.
>I think there can be a stigma attached to 'just' being depressed as people think you're just a miserable kind of person or should stop moping, whereas e.g. with schizophrenia people don't question that it's an illness.
YES DEFINATELY!!!>I suppose I also wanted an 'excuse' for not working, and spending some time just getting better and being depressed just didn't seem to be good enough.
Again, yes, absolutely!!
>I was interested to read that you went to Cambridge, as I did too.
Oooh what college did you go to? And what did you read? And (if you don't mind me asking), were you attending at the time of your illness? Did you defer, or, what happened? Thanks a lot if you feel you can talk to me about it!
>I think you're brave for sharing your feelings.
Thank you so much :)
Again if you don't mind me asking, did you happen to have a similar situation to me in any way? I mean, with your childhood. Is there any reason behind why you might have needed to try and prove yourself, as I did?
You know, when I got into Camb, my history teacher said "Oh do you know, Cambridge has the highest suicide rate of any uni in the country". Hmm, thanks for that sir. What a jolly little statistic (!). But thinking about it now, even though it is a brilliant uni and brilliant fun, I wouldn't be surprised if it is true what he said. BUT I don't think this has anything to do with the uni - my experience so far with the people that go there, the tutors etc, they have all been BRILLIANTLY supportive. They've said they will hold my place, I'm on the 2nd year out now. And they've taken the pressure off, saying I don't have to come back, I should just do what I want, etc etc. BUT I think it is more to do with the TYPE OF PERSON that applies there. I think they often have issues, and are perfectionists or obsessive-type personalitites, or people who need to prove themselves or whatever. Not everyone obviously, but just in general. Maybe this is why, these sorts of people can be prone to depression etc.
Anyway thanks again for your post! I hope you keep in touch and continue to post :)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by lars1 on February 5, 2005, at 19:42:16
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth » pretty_paints, posted by ed_uk on February 5, 2005, at 13:06:57
Wow, Ed, that was a really insightful post!
Lars
Posted by ed_uk on February 5, 2005, at 20:23:19
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 5, 2005, at 15:05:29
Hello!
>You're totally right though about it being a way to explain things.
The problem is, getting a diagnosis doesn't really explain that much. Like all psych disorders, Schizophrenia is diagnosed based on the symptoms which are present. Even with a diagnosis of schiz, you still don't know what caused you to be ill.
>What's the ICD??
The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is a diagnostic system. Chapter 5 is called 'Mental and behavioural Disorders.'
Here is a link.........
Go to chapter V and click on 'F20-F29 Schizophrenia, schizotypal and delusional disorders.'http://www3.who.int/icd/vol1htm2003/fr-icd.htm
The Americans classify mental illness using the DSM. English pdocs use either the DSM or the ICD, most will be familiar with both.
> Do you have any other examples of bizarre delusions?
The most common examples are Schneiders's firk rank symptoms eg.
Thought withdrawal: the delusion that one's thoughts have been removed from one's mind by an external agency.
Thought insertion: the delusion that some of one's thoughts are not one's own but have been implanted by an outside agency.
'Tony Blair is inserting ideas into my mind using radiowaves'
Thought broadcasting: the delusion that one's thoughts are being made known to external agencies. This may be via telepathy, mindreading, the radio, the newspaper telling people about his thoughts etc. Some patients believe that other people can hear their thoughts.
Delusional perception: Delusional perception describes, confusingly, a true perception, to which a patient attributes a false meaning. For example, a perfectly normal event such as the traffic lights turning red may be interpreted by the patient as meaning that the martians are about to land.
Delusion of passivity: the delusion that one's actions, movements, emotions or thoughts are being controlled by some outside agency.
'I was abducted by aliens, they put a silver implant in my brain. They are using it to control my thoughts and actions'
>Is it impossible to get a diagnosis of schizophrenia without bizarre delusions?
No, but other symptoms (eg. hallucinations) must also be present if the delusions are not bizarre.
>Can you give me some examples of depressive delusions more specifically.
Delusions of guilt/responsibility...
eg. 'I am personally responsible for the the poverty in Africa'
or 'I killed my wife' - when she is still alive
Nihilistic delusions...
eg. 'I died a year ago, only my spirit remains'
Hypochondriacal delusion...
eg. 'My bowels are gangrenous, everyone can smell the stench'Delusions of deserved punishment...
'I deserve to die, I raped a woman' - when he never raped anyone
Ed xxx
Posted by ed_uk on February 5, 2005, at 20:44:53
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth » ed_uk, posted by lars1 on February 5, 2005, at 19:42:16
Thanks :-)
Ed.
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 2:07:14
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth » pretty_paints, posted by ed_uk on February 5, 2005, at 20:23:19
Hello Mr Ed,
>Even with a diagnosis of schiz, you still don't know what caused you to be ill.
No, true. BUT you can attribute quite a lot of "weird things" to it, which otherwise you would have had to accept responsibility for in a therapy-type way. For example, all the stuff about the rape and my mum etc. I was trying to wade through all that difficult stuff in therapy. None of it made any sense to me, but now knowing it is a delusion, I can just let it go.
>The most common examples are Schneiders's firk rank symptoms eg.
When I was in hospital I thought that my cat (a soft toy I bought from the hospital shop), I thought I could feel what he was feeling. But he was always feeling angry. But I don't think this is thought withdrawal or thought insertion or thought broadcasting. Also, when I was back at Uni I thought all the tutors could see into my room and KNOW what I was up to. So then when I got to a supervision, it would be like a bit of a game. He'd be like "ooh I saw your light on late last night when I walked past, you must have been burning the midnight oil with that essay!". However I would have been having a party or watching Dawson's Creek with my mates or something. But I KNEW he knew this, he was just playing with me seeing if I would admit to the truth. So we'd just be there looking at eachother, knowing the truth. Which was really uncomfortable. And it meant I could never never never relax in my room. In fact the only place I feel safe is my wonderful house. It's out of the city centre, near the bottom of a big hill. I could never live in town, I would be waay too paranoid. I dunno, my mum and dad say that I will be fine it once I'm well. Do you think the tutor thing (which I know don't really believe) is thought er, broadcasting maybe? I don't know. Anyway, thanks for all the info Ed. I don't understand it that much, but maybe because I'm quite tired at the moment (or that I've just turned into an-IQ-of-3 creature).
Can you believe I'm actually awake at 8AM! Yikesarooney. It's this damn Abilify I think.
>eg. 'My bowels are gangrenous, everyone can smell the stench'
There was someone on babble recently, I think on another board though, who had this obsession with the fact that (he thought) he had a body odour. I thought he may have Body Dysmorphic Disorder, but maybe it's this? He was absolutely convinced that this stench was coming from his bowels.
Oh by the way, one more thing. You know for schiz they say you have to have been ill for like 6 months, so how does that work?
Does the person have to be psychotic for 6 months?? What if they are treated with antipsychotics? Surely then this would help the psychosis. Would a doc really insist on seeing 6 months of pure psychosis, without doing anything to put a stop to the delusions etc?
I don't really think I understand. Maybe you can explain it to me oh big brain of babble :)
***************
Anyway Mr Ed, how are you dude?? I hope you are doing alright. You don't seem to be doing as many posts as you used to, maybe you are busy? You said you are studying pharmacy, how many years have you been doing this? Do you find it interesting?
I'm gonna get up now and run around the house for a bit (I'm still in bed, I have manoevered by laptop, clever me hey). Just to burn off some energy. All my family have left for work now, sob, so I'm all alone. Ah well.
Take care everyone. Love Kate xx
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 2:13:08
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 2:07:14
Also just to add,
I find out later today whether I can switch to see the new consultant doc or whether I have to stay with my new doc. I am soooo nervous about it. I feel like I'm getting my GCSE results or something. I even prayed this morning about it!!
I'm going to gardening at 1:30ish, and then I'll find out after gardening what's going to happen. Wish me luck!
Posted by Smeegle on February 7, 2005, at 3:11:28
In reply to The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 4, 2005, at 13:38:38
Pretty Paints! You are truely wonderful. In reading your post, I could totally relate to almost every single point you made.
Though I never outwardly lied to my pdoc, I did not tell him the truth...the whole truth for at least a year. How did I expect him to help me if I didn't admit that so much more was going on. Now that I have, maybe we can get somewhere. I asked point blank at my appt last week, "what exactly is going on with me". Naturally I didn't get a straight answer and the paranoid part of me wants (and the part that wants and so desparately seems to need) a difinitive diagnosis. To me it's no different than when I had cancer 5 years ago. I wanted/needed answers. Once I knew exactly what I was dealing with, I (along with my dr's) could go from there and lay out my treatment options. I felt so much relief once the cards were on the table (so to speak). So, yeah. I wanna know what I am dealing with here. Something is defintely going on and it aint good. I don't think I am schizophrenic, but from the various meds I have been thru and tracking on my own, I have deduced bipolar disorder. To try and self-diagnose can be counter-productive, but I detest not knowing. Geez, you were so dead-on with so many of your points. The voices....I know that it is just my internal dialogue and I have to work very hard to keep it on track. Sometimes it just doesn't work out and I have learned to seek a safe place, tell someone to not let me be alone, whatever. This has been a new revelation for me. I have no idea why I wake up at 3am with the idea that I just can't do this (life) any more. It's not that I "really" want to die (suicide), I just want the pain to end. But once the idea is in my head, getting it out isn't always so easy. No one in my life knew the extent to which I had deteriorated, though they knew I was deeply depressed. Not a single person knew that I spent more time thinking about ending my life than a 17 year old male thinks about sex...lol. That's a lot! I go though each day totally detached from myself. I feel like an invisible passenger in my car, just observing this person driving. I never realized that was dissociation. I separate myself from the reality of the life that is so painful to live. What is so painful about my life? You tell me and we'll both know. I had a virtually uneventful childhood. My parents divorced when I was 7, but they were amazingly civil and as an adult I give them so much respect and credit for the way they handled the whole thing. It just wasn't meant to be for them (honestly...they are two people who had zero in common). They are both now in wonderful relationships. I was not abused. I was raised in a very loving and affectionate family. We spent probably more quality time together than the average family. Never once in my life did I ever doubt that my parents wholeheartedly loved me and that I was special to them. The only area in my life that has been what one would be considered traumatic is having cancer (just hit 5 year mark...high fives all around) and raising a very difficult child (currently 21, a military desserter and in jail for helping himself to my credit card). I look at him now and know that I have denied for a long time that whatever is wrong with me is wrong with him...only he has sooo many more issues than me (thanks in part to an alcoholic father who beat wives 2 and 3 for years...I managed to escape that hell). I know intellectually that I did everything I could do as a parent and that ultimately the decisions he makes are his to deal with, but so many times I feel I failed him. I may not have deliberately made him bipolar, but my genes did (there is a genetic disposition). He has many, many problems and so many issues and I wish more than anything that he was in a hospital getting psychiatric help rather than in jail. Maybe I am just making excuses for him, but even several of his friends called me just before I had him picked up to ask about his bizarre behavior (likely a manic episode...major grandiose ideas, going 20 hours a day, flittering from one thing to another so fast his gf's head was spinning). Waaaay out of character even for someone who's personality was a little unique to begin with. (in a way his uniquenes was part of what made him special...until it went bizzerk (sp) which just happened to coincide with his return from 8 months of deployment in Iraq. I can put the pieces of this puzzle together, I don't understand why no one else can. He puts in a request every week to speak with a counselor and every week they say one will be in on Friday yet it never happens.
Off track again...So why do I feel so totally unloved now. Completely irrational thinking. If my husband didn't love me, he wouldn't be here. He's a no-nonsense kind of person and I know that if he didn't, he's be outta here. He's baffled and at a lost at how to deal with me and/or help me, but I know he's in it for the long haul. Good or bad. I just don't "feel" it. I don't mind being alone. I actually enjoy and relish my solitude (when I am thinking rationally). Yet I feel more lonely around people than when I am alone. Explain that to me please! I know I am a people pleaser and I over-personalize. I internalize. Admitting that I need help and/or communicating what I am thinking/feeling is excruciating. All I ever wanted was peace. Peace of mind and for everyone to just be kind to each other and get along. I don't think it's too much to ask.
Sorry if I ramble, get off track, etc. Back to the voices. When I read that someone hears voices, what exactly is that? Is it their internal dialogue gone waaaaaay wrong? Or is it really hearing voices. I have constant chatter in my mind. It flits from one thing to another, random, productive, non-productive, whatever. Some days I tune it out (distraction), other days I can't. My thoughts consume me and it scares me to no end that some days the more I think about suicide, the more it seems like the only logical answer. It is simply what I must do. As I think about it more and more, it becomes a very distinct possiblilty. I have only made one serious attempt. Managed to screw it up (today I am glad I failed...tomorrow I may not be....never know). I still have "the kit", though I have disposed of it and reassembled it several times over the past couple of years. I just like to have it on hand "just in case". I know I shouldn't. No one knows it even exists (well hidden in plain view...ha). I am not suicidal right now and have no intentions of using it at this time. It's just a comfort knowing it's there. (it's like that little devil on one shoulder that says "go ahead....see what happens". Then there is the little angel or whatever on the other shoulder that says "this isn't rational...don't listen to him". I get so conflicted and scared of myself sometimes. I think the only reason my pdoc hasn't hospitalized me (now that he knows the whole ugly truth) is because (at least at this time) I am aware of what is real and what is not. He is hesitantly trusting that if it gets to be too much that I will pick up the phone and call him. He has made it perfectly clear that it is not and would not ever be an imposition. He is great. It took a long time to warm up to him, but now I know I can tell him anything and he will not judge me. I think I was afraid if I openned up and told him everything that he would lock me up for sure. I fear the stigma more than actually being hospitalized. Sometimes I WANT to be hospitalized just to escape my life (which I refer to as my own personal "hotel california" for those Eagles fans...at the risk of giving my age away). Sometimes I long to be hospitalized so much it aches. But why? Probably pure escapism. I just can't (or don't want to ) deal with another day. I can't take one more thing going wrong. I never know when that one thing is going to happen that is going to push me over the edge. It could be anything....big or small. It may never happen. I feel like a land mine waiting to be stepped on. Additionally, as if I should care about work over my own personal safety, I know it would create a real hardship if I were to be away from work right now. I know I really should worry more about me and keeping me alive and functional than what would happen if I was out of work for a week or two (or however long they keep you). Some days I am convinced I am going completely crazy, about to come totally unglued and/or crawl right out of my skin. The aggitation is unbearbale. Then I wonder if I really even need it. Am I indulging myself and just don't want to deal with the reality that life basically sucks. That this is as good as it gets.
I seriously doubt your pdoc will be angry. In a rational mind, you probably know that. Then the irrational part takes over and plays out all these other scenarios. I suspect your dr has long suspected that she wasn't getting the whole story. They have to know that at some point we are going to want to know what the heck is going on. It's normal to want to know something like that. I sure as heck do. So many times I want to ask for a copy of my records. I have copies of all of my medical records since the day I was dx with cancer. Every x-ray, scan, lab work, surgical reports, pathology, etc. I had to read for myself to be at peace. (in speaking with other cancer survivors, this is actually not abnormal). Since then, I have continued to make a habit of always requesting copies of test results just to keep my file up to date (ya know, in case I move or something it's good to have all my medical records in one place rather than remembering who has what and all that paperwork in getting it transferred). Not that I am a hypochondriac. It's just a habit I got into and now I want so much to ask for a copy of my pdoc's file on me. From what I hear, they give you an edited version which is the only reason I haven't requested it YET. I really want to know what he is writing down, what he thinks about what I am saying. Am I crazy, insane or just really, really depressed? Is it all just a cry for attention? I wanna know. I think you sitting down and writing a letter was possibly a good idea. (too bad on the timing though). I sometimes find when I have something really hard to say that I really, really need to say that it is easier to write. Maybe once all your cards are finally out on the table you will finally be able to look her in the eye and get to the root of what's going on. I hope the same for all of us.
Thanks for letting me know that I wasn't alone in thinking about so many of the things you said.
Smeegs
Posted by Smeegle on February 7, 2005, at 3:19:16
In reply to I like your truth, posted by Smeegle on February 7, 2005, at 3:11:28
Gardening, huh? I returned to school two years ago and am majoring in Horticulture. While in cancer treatment, I found that doing a little light gardening was very soothing to the soul. I know having flowers, blooms and color around me is calming. It know I'll never get rich in that field but it's one of the few things I am still passionate about. Even if I rarely even set foot in my garden anymore...I still love it and know one day I will make it back into the beautiful garden it once was. (oh my gosh...was that optimism...or delirium? It's 3:18 my time and I have to be up in 4 hours....eeeek).
Smeegs
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 4:09:40
In reply to Re: I like your truth, posted by Smeegle on February 7, 2005, at 3:19:16
Hi Smeegs,
Thanks for you're lovely post. And thank you for telling me I'm wonderful!!! Blushes.
I think you have been really brave to cope with cancer and all the stuff about your son. You know, a lot of really severe depression is a neurological problem, and there may not be any "reason" for it (easy to say I know, shame I don't listen to my own advice!!). Are you in therapy at all??
I used to think maybe I was bipolar. Not because I'd ever been manic, but the problem was: every thing I read about depression said it slowed everything down, "depressed" all the body systems. It said your thoughts would become slow and difficult to form, and that everything would kinda move in slow motion. They said everything would be grey and dreary, that there would be no sensations and everything would be bleak.
Unless of course it is an agitated depression, which is different.
Well that totally was not like how it was for me, or for you so it seems.
For me, it was like being on an unhappy overdrive. I was desperately unhappy, but at the same time, everything was on fast motion for me. Colours, sights were vivid. Noises sounded suspicious and edgy. EVERYTHING was on high-speed. My THOUGHTS were crazy, on fastforward all the time, shoo shoo shoo. SO therefore, I thought I was manic. But it turns out that I was psychotic.
Anyway, I totally agree with you about the medical notes. I went and read my GP notes (I don't know if you are in the UK or not, think you said you were in the US, but GPs are like your general docs, and then they send you to the psychiatrist). Every time I have an appointment with my pdoc, she sends a letter to my GP. So I went and read all of those. The thing I found is (maybe this is my general paranoia), I thought they would have recorded SO MANY MORE THINGS than they actually did. It actually made me feel really rubbish. It was clinical yes, but it was also very very brief. And I just thought that I had conveyed so many things in the appointment, and all she records is the highlights. It made me feel really crap actually. However I comforted myself by thinking that these arn't actually the PROPER notes. The pdoc has a big folder and probably makes more detailed notes for herself. I would LOVE to read these notes, but am too scared to ask, and like you said, they would probably screen out certain things anyway.
Like the first time I went to see my GP (note, unless you are obviously psychotic or suicidal, you stay being treated with your GP for about 6 months, then maybe you get refered), I chatted to her about loads and loads, and envisioned her writing loads of stuff. But all it said was "Katie is very depressed. Crying. Have started 20mg fluoxetine". What?!!
I think tho that also it was part of my psychosis, because I basically thought my GP HATED me and was writing that I was a bad patient and she hated me etc in her notes. Which obviously she wasn't.
The letter my pdoc wrote on my admission to hospital simply said "Katie is very distressed. Ideas with a psychotic flair. Have started 2mg Risperidone". When we were in there for like, an HOUR!
Anyway, I don't think I will ask to see my pdoc notes, even tho like you I'd love to see them. I don't know what I'd find and it might upset me. I'm not exactly emotionally "sorted" at the mo, so I'll maybe leave it.
By the way, was it you who has recently posted a post on the "Medications in the US army" post? I just read that and it sounded similar (if not the same) as what you've written here, about your son being a deserter of the army etc. What does that mean being a deserter? That you just refuse to fight or something?
Anyway I am glad to have met you!! We have a lot in common! Thanks so much for your post xxxxxxxxxxxx Keep in touch!! :) I hope you manage to get through the really low patches. I understand your need to keep your "suicide" things just in case (yeh I really do, it's like you therefore have that *option* if things get really bad), but if things get rough again, maybe you could ask someone to help you out? My mum and dad bought a safe and they keep all my meds in there, as well as big knives from round the house, blades etc. It sounds a bit over the top, but it makes me feel more relaxed, knowing that if the urge came, it would take me longer to get hold of something to do the deed with, and that time might give me a chance to think again about what I'm going to do.
Anyway it is of course up to you :)
Keep in touch Smeegs!!! :) Have a good day.
Posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2005, at 10:39:58
In reply to Re: The Honest Truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 2:07:14
Hi Katie!
Thank you for the babblemail- hope you received my reply! You ARE wonderful!
>BUT you can attribute quite a lot of "weird things" to it, which otherwise you would have had to accept responsibility for in a therapy-type way. For example, all the stuff about the rape and my mum etc. I was trying to wade through all that difficult stuff in therapy. None of it made any sense to me.
You can attribute your delusion about being raped to your psychotic disorder. Why would you need to accept personal responsibility for something that you now know was a delusion?
>but now knowing it is a delusion, I can just let it go.
You see, you are finding the answer to your own problem! Whether you end up being diagnosed with schizophrenia or not doesn't matter, you already *know* that you were psychotic. You *know* that you were ill and can attribute your delusions to your illness. It doesn't make any difference which 'specific' psychotic disorder you end up getting diagnosed with- a delusion is a delusion!! Many people want a diagnosis, it makes them realise that they are not the only one to experience a particular set of symptoms. To be honest though, psychotic disorders are much more common than most people realise- you are not alone :-) 0.5-1.5 % of the population suffers from a schizophrenic illness and many more people suffer from other forms of psychosis. As I said before, there is significant overlap between the so-called 'specific' psychotic disorders. In many ways, it would be easier to simply think of yourself as having a psychotic disorder rather than thinking of yourself as being schizophrenic. You can attribute "weird things" to your psychotic disorder, you do not need to call it schizophrenia or psychotic depression or schizoaffective disorder to make real- you already know that it was a real illness. There is 0% probability that you pdoc will think that you were never really ill just because you told a few lies :-)
>He was always feeling angry. But I don't think this is was thought withdrawal or thought insertion or thought broadcasting.
It doesn't have to be :-) If you *truly believed* that your toy cat had real feelings, this would be an example of a bizarre delusion because it's impossible for a toy to have feelings. Bizarre delusions are suggestive of schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, they are not typical of psychotic depression.
>Also, when I was back at Uni I thought all the tutors could see into my room and KNOW what I was up to.
How did you think that they could see into your room? Did you suspect hidden cameras or did you believe that they 'just knew' what you had been doing? Did you believe that they had supernatural powers which allowed them to know what you were doing?
To quote from the ICD......
In schizophrenia, 'the most intimate thoughts, feelings, and acts (of the patient) are often felt to be known to or shared by others, and explanatory delusions may develop' eg. that your tutors had special vision that allowed them to see through your bedroom walls.
>every thing I read about depression said it slowed everything down, "depressed" all the body systems. It said your thoughts would become slow and difficult to form, and that everything would kinda move in slow motion. They said everything would be grey and dreary, that there would be no sensations and everything would be bleak. Unless of course it is an agitated depression, which is different.Depression is a very personal and individual experience. It is rarely, if ever, like you would expect it to be! Different people can have very different symptoms and experiences. Also, people can have very different types of depression at different times in their life.
>Colours, sights were vivid. Noises sounded suspicious and edgy.
These symptoms are suggestive of schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. They are not typical of psychotic depression.
The ICD say that.........
In schizophrenia 'perception is frequently disturbed in other ways: colours or sounds may seem unduly vivid or altered in quality.'
>EVERYTHING was on high-speed. My THOUGHTS were crazy, on fastforward all the time, shoo shoo shoo. SO therefore, I thought I was manic. But it turns out that I was psychotic.
Yes, these symptoms can occur in schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder and manic-depression (bipolar disorder).
Considering the nature of your delusions, a diagnosis of bipolar disorder would be extremely unlikely. You are much more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder or possibly psychotic depression. The mixed affective episode-like symptoms that you just described are particularly suggestive of schizoaffective disorder.NB. A mixed affective episode is an episode of illness in which depressive and manic symptoms are both prominent at the same time. It can be difficult (and sometimes impossible) for a pdoc to distinguish between an agitated depressive illness and a mixed episode.
As defined in the ICD, schizoaffective disorder is a term used to refer to 'episodic disorders in which both affective (eg. depressive, manic, mixed) and schizophrenic symptoms (eg. bizarre delusions, hallucinations) are prominent within the same episode of illness, preferably simultaneously, but at least within a few days of each other.'
>Does the person have to be psychotic for 6 months?? What if they are treated with antipsychotics? Surely then this would help the psychosis. Would a doc really insist on seeing 6 months of pure psychosis, without doing anything to put a stop to the delusions etc?
The '6 month rule' is from the DSM- the diagnostic manual written by the American Psychiatric Association.
The person must have suffered clear psychotic (ie. delusions, hallucinations) symptoms for at least 1 month. Milder schizophrenic symptoms must have been present for at least 6 months (eg. paranoia, odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences such as seeing vivid colours, social withdrawal etc.) If the patient receives treatment with an antipsychotic and recovers, psychotic disorder NOS or schizophreniform disorder may be diagnosed. Several years later, if it becomes clear that the patient's illness is long-term, the diagnosis can be changed to schizophrenia.
NB. Schizophreniform disorder is when somebody has a short episode (less that 6 months) of a schizophrenia-like ilness. Schizophreniform disorder is most commonly diagnosed when the patient was ill for less than 6 months and has remained symptom-free ever since without long-term medication. In your case, it cannot be known whether you would have recovered in less than 6 months without medication. As a result, psychotic disorder NOS was diagnosed. If you become psychotic again, and it becomes clear that your illness is long term, schizophrenia may be diagnosed. If it becomes clear that depressive, manic or mixed episodes are a major feature of your illness, in addition to schizophrenia-like symptoms, schizoaffective disorder is a likely diagnosis. If, in the long run, you recover completely, schizophreniform disorder may be diagnosed. If you suffer future episodes of severe depression accompanied by mood congruent delusions, your pdoc may diagnose sever depression with psychotic features ie. psychotic depression. Psychotic depression will not be diagnosed if you experience persistent mood-incongruent delusions. Bizarre (ie. 'impossible') delusions are never considered to be mood-congruent. Persecutary delusions are only considered to be mood-congruent if they are directly related to depressive themes eg. 'I was raped as a punishment for my evil.' Otherwise, persecutory delusions are considered to be mood-incongruent.
The '6 month rule' does not exist in the ICD. Schizophrenia can be diagnosed after *definate* symptoms have been present for only 1 month. The diagnosis of schizophreniform disorder does not exist in the ICD. The ICD classifies transient psychotic disorders in a different way. In the ICD, short-term psychotic disorders are divided into 6 categories. Here is a list of the acute and transient psychotic disorders listed in the ICD.....
1. Acute polymorphic psychotic disorder without symptoms of schizophrenia
2. Acute polymorphic psychotic disorder with symptoms of schizophrenia
3. Acute schizophrenia-like psychotic disorder
4. Other acute predominantly delusional psychotic disorder
5. Other acute and transient psychotic disorders
6. Acute and transient psychotic disorder, unspecifiedI hope you can see that there is actually substantial overlap between the various diagnostic categories that are often thought of as being specific. Schizophrenia, delusional disorder, schizoaffective disorder and psychotic depression are not discreet conditions- psychotic disorders occur on a spectrum. Apart from psyhotic disorders causes by drugs or medical conditions such as MS, no discreet form of psychotic disorder has yet been identified. The DSM frequently disagrees with the ICD. Psychiatrists frequently disagree with each other! Some people think that even attempting to put people's individual psychiatric symptoms into diagnostic categories is bound to fail! In psychiatry, diagnosis is very controversial. People's illnesses are very real but the way that they are classified is somewhat contrived and artificial. Many people's symptoms *never* fit the criteria for any of the 'specific' psychotic syndromes- psychotic disorder NOS will be a long-term diagnosis for these people. Frequently, psychiatrists diagnose psychotic disorder NOS when they don't have enough information to diagnose any of the 'specific' psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia. Several years later, when more information is available, a 'specific' diagnosis can often be made.
Here is a list of the psychotic disorders defined in the DSM............
Brief Psychotic Disorder
Delusional Disorder
Schizoaffective Disorder
Schizophrenia
Schizophreniform Disorder
Shared Psychotic Disorder
Psychotic Disorder Due to a general medical condition
Substance-Induced Psychotic Disorder
Psychotic Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified)>Anyway Mr Ed, how are you dude?? I hope you are doing alright.
Yes, I'm in my second week of lectures now. So far, the lectures have been ok. Thank you for asking.
>You said you are studying pharmacy, how many years have you been doing this? Do you find it interesting?
I'm in the second year. Sadly, the course is quite boring. I'm not in love with my university by any means!! I wish I enjoyed in more :-( As least the lectures this semester aren't as boring as they were last semester! I missed my January exams... I was so bored I couldn't be bothered to get out of bed. I'm supposed to be doing them in August with the people doing resits.
Ed xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:00:46
In reply to Hello Katie! » pretty_paints, posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2005, at 10:39:58
Hello Ed,
Thanks for your post. It was really clear (as usual) and explained things really well. I had a bit of a funny day today, I got really upset at gardening. Well I HAD spent an hour picking up litter!! Ha ha. No, that was not the reason. I guess I just felt a bit welled up. I was worried about the doctor situation, but as it was I have still not found out. I was talking to my social worked Helen Brook about it, and was worrying and obsessing about it, and she was like, "hmmm Katie, is this realistic to be worrying this much?" and I was like "YES, I THINK SO". Ha ha.
Anyway. As for your post.
>You ARE wonderful!
Why thank you sir!
>You can attribute your delusion about being raped to your psychotic disorder.
Yes, you're right. I realise that now. A schizophrenia diagnosis is no different to a psychotic diagnosis (no no, I don't mean they're the SAME, I just mean you can attribute things to them in the same way. I don't NEED the schizophrenia label to be able to use psychosis to EXPLAIN AWAY delusions).
>There is 0% probability that you pdoc will think that you were never really ill just because you told a few lies :-)
Thank you, thank you!
>If you *truly believed* that your toy cat had real feelings, this would be an example of a bizarre delusion because it's impossible for a toy to have feelings.
It probably wasn't a bizarre delusions. I was struggling with the idea that he was just a plain toy and couldn't have feelings, and was wondering if he did because I thought I could feel them. If you would have asked me outright, I PROBABLY would have said no I think.
>How did you think that they could see into your room?
Same as above I think. I just felt their presence constantly. I always felt watched, and I just KNEW that they could see me all the time. I wasn't ill enough to come up with a logical explanation, like seeing through walls. At most I would have thought they were looking down from the top of the room, OR I'd think one teacher had seen me and emailed the rest of the teachers or told them to let them know.
>Did you suspect hidden cameras or did you believe that they 'just knew' what you had been doing?
I *just knew*.
>Considering the nature of your delusions, a diagnosis of bipolar disorder would be extremely unlikely.
Yes I agree. Though man, I mean, I might actually fancy a nice hypomanic phase!! Get lots done, be creative, feel euphoric, etc etc!!! (nb: disclaimer - not that I'm saying bipolar is a pleasant thing. I'm just joking)
>I'm not in love with my university by any means!! I wish I enjoyed in more :-(
Don't worry, that's exactly how I felt. I missed loads of my lectures coz I just couldn't be bothered (plus, I had zero concentration, and zero ability to actually link topics/ideas together, so there didn't seem much point). Personally I think Uni is overrated, "best days of your life" and all that. I've known a lot of people who haven't particularly enjoyed it, they've been lonely or bored or dissapointed with it.
>As least the lectures this semester aren't as boring as they were last semester!
Good!
Good to chat to you again Mr Ed.Have a good evening. And yes I did get your babblemail, thanks!!!
:)
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:37:41
In reply to Hello Ed!, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:00:46
Actually I'm feeling a little fed up.
Can I explain? Something's really on my mind.
Right, you know before, I lied to my pdoc because I wanted her to think I was more ill than I really was. Then I decided to write to her, tell her it was a lie and get it off my chest.
Now today, have I done the same thing? (nb: It wasn't my doc, it was my social worker, but same thing). I told her about my ideas with the soft toy cat and with the tutors at college. Am I doing the same stupid thing again?
I feel annoyed with myself but I am trying not to because in fact, they are true. And therefore I'm thinking, if they're true, the doc needs to know. But I admit, I am aware that by telling my doc this she will think I am more ill and closer along the line towards schizophrenia. So why did I do it, was it for that? Do I want her to think I'm more ill than I am, like before?
Well no, because before was a lie, and this is the truth.
Sigh, I am so tired analysing all this. It's giving me a headache and making me very unhappy. If I have done the same thing again, it is a bad move therapy-wise, because what we are working on at the moment is trying to just be myself, "katie on her own". That is enough. Not "Katie plus schizophrenia".
So overal I do think I said it in order to make myself seem more ill to her, but at the same time, it happened to be true, so therefore, is it so bad?
I did explain what I explained to you here Ed, that I didn't loose my LOGIC. That I *felt* it, rather than *knew* it. So I could have lied about that, but I didn't did I! So that is good. I explained it how it really was. And I will do so again if she asks me about it. How I *just knew* it was true, but that I wouldn't go as far as to say people can see through walls, etc.
So please if anyone can give me some advice about this as I am really churning it over :( :( :(
Also, I am going to stop posting on babble or searching the net. I am so familiar with "typical" symptoms and signs etc, that is probably causing me even more problems because I KNOW what delusions to say to make me sound even more ill. If I lay off the "research" stuff, and just talk about ME, how I FEEL, and what I'm experiencing, I am bound to be better off in the long run, and this will be more accurate.
Please reply people, as I feeling really emotional and run-down after today. I am feeling crap because I feel I've done what I did before. Stupid me. And I don't know whether I have or not, so please help me.
:(
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 13:18:54
In reply to Fed up, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:37:41
********** I FEEL MY POST WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING SO I AM JUST GOING TO CLARIFY **********
When I said:
"I feel annoyed with myself but I am trying not to because in fact, they are true"...
I didn't mean, the two delusions are true and I believe them NOW. I mean, it is TRUE that at some point last year I DID BELIEVE THEM. I was lieing before, but this time they actually happened,
and
"Well no, because before was a lie, and this is the truth"...
I mean the same thing here.
When I said:
"So overal I do think I said it in order to make myself seem more ill to her, but at the same time, it happened to be true, so therefore, is it so bad?"...
What I meant was, YES maybe I did say it to make myself seem more ill. THAT IS BAD. But at the same time, I AM TELLING THE TRUTH THIS TIME. It just so happens that telling the truth inadvertantly means saying things that make me seem more ill. GET ME?
I think all this churning over what I said and what I didn't say and why I said it, or whether I'm gonna have doctor X or doctor Y, maybe...MAYBE...is due to being on the lower dose of Seroquel. It makes me more obsessive I think. I can't seem to shake my head out of ruminating thoughts. grr GRR GRRRRRRR
I will try to distract myself with reading a book. NOT ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS!! HA HA. No, maybe Anne of Green Gables.
Posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 13:32:15
In reply to Re: Fed up, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 13:18:54
Help! I can't stop posting.
Every time I think of "one more thing" I forgot to mention, I have to open a damn window and write the thing.
AAAAAAAARGGGGHHHH
Okay, well may as well say what I came here to say.
What I wanted to say is I forgot, I ONLY said about the tutors delusions. NOT MR SOFT TOY CAT. No no no. Wooooooouldn't bring that up as it was stuff from hosptial and didn't last very long in any case. So was just the tutor thing.
That's good hey? If I would have been wanting to seem more ill I would have said both. But I didn't!
Yay.
Maybe I am finally getting stronger and not NEEDING for me to be really ill in order to get my doc Helen to like me and take care of me. She will do that whether I am ill or not, whether I get a diagnosis or not.
Hmm. Why can I write that, yet not believe it? :(
humph
Posted by Smeegle on February 7, 2005, at 14:33:09
In reply to Re: I like your truth, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 4:09:40
I see both a psychiatrist and a psychologist. At first when it was what I thought was just depression, I started out with my GP, but we rapidly determined that it was way beyond her ability to help me. Yes, I do live in the states and am blessed to have excellent insurance (mental health is covered 100%, no copay, no deductible...there are limits on something like 30 outpatient visits per year and 30 days inpatient, though if circumstances required I doubt they'd refuse to cover...haven't had to cross that bridge). I have heard that a pdoc does not have to disclose any information that they believe could be harmful (trigger??). I can't imagine what in his notes could.would be harmful since in my mind it would only be what I had said to him and his comments and/or professional notations. Anyhow, paranoid or not, I fully believe I would get an edited version which would not tell me what I wanted to know in the first place. And to some degree, I understand their reluctance to pin a specific diagnosis unless they are classic textbook symptoms. But I still wanna know!
Also, yes that was my post under the military medication topic. I can't speak for the other branches, but the USMC will disqualify anyone ever diagnosed with ADD/ADHD or had ever taken Adderall, Ritalin, etc. I know for a fact that recruiters have told recuits to "leave it off" if they have been off for at least a year (some less than that). I certainly don't blame the military for the situation he has gotten himself into. But having said that, and based upon extensive research I have done on both PTSD and Bipolar, he fits the profile. Although it doesn't always require a trigger, Bipolar can be triggered by prolonged exposure to extreme stressors (PTSD comes in many forms...in his case being in a combat zone for 8 months). His behavior before and after are like night and day. You asked what it means to be a deserter. It means he left base on unauthorized leave, then after not reporting back in for 30 days he was reported as being a deserter. He simply left and didn't go back. It is increasingly becoming a problem here as we cycle our troops in/out of Iraq. Being a deserter is a serious offense and he is going to own up to it and accept the consequences. He was stripped of all rank, will never qualify for any veterans benefits and will receive a dishonorable discharge. I make no excuses for how he handled things. But I do know that there were so many signs that this was a kid in crisis and so much could have been avoided. They ask you ONE TIME, "are you okay" and never followup. When someone goes from being "an outstanding Marine" to one acting completely out of character, I would think he would have been referred for counseling. As for the drug thing, the USMC has a zero tolerance policy on that. I have Army friends and know that they at least offer substance abuse treatment before simply issueing a dishonorable discharge. My son cries at night with the shame of what he has done. Not that he got caught, not that he has to face the consequences. Because his life's dreams are ruined and there is no way he can turn back the pages of time.
Smeegs
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2005, at 17:17:06
In reply to Re: Fed up, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 13:18:54
I know what you mean. I can't concentrate, even on this Board. My mind is racing and my body in twitching, and dizzy etc, The new meds? The withdrawal? So much has happened so fast I can't process it all! You're doing GREAT Prettypaints! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Smeegle on February 8, 2005, at 0:15:39
In reply to Fed up, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:37:41
Seems like a fine line between being delusional and downright irrational thinking. Sometimes I know intellectually that what I am thinking is totally irrational, yet it seems so real and the more I think about it, the more real it gets. I can really get myself worked up when I let my thoughts get the best of me. It's not always so easy to reel myself back in. Other days I can just tell myself how absurd what I was thinking was. I wish I could understand why I can't always control it.
Smeegs
Posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 10:01:32
In reply to Hello Ed!, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:00:46
Hi Katie!
It sounds like you've been worrying a lot lately. I don't think you've got anything to worry about though :-) Please don't stop coming on babble, you are my friend now :-)
> I was struggling with the idea that he was just a plain toy and couldn't have feelings, and was wondering if he did because I thought I could feel them.
Ok, so it wasn't a delusion, it was just an 'unusual idea.' A pdoc might call it an 'overvalued idea.'
Love Ed xxx
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2005, at 11:50:48
In reply to Re: Hello Ed! » pretty_paints, posted by ed_uk on February 8, 2005, at 10:01:32
Yes pretty paints; Keep Posting. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on February 8, 2005, at 21:13:34
In reply to Fed up, posted by pretty_paints on February 7, 2005, at 12:37:41
Hi
Is it possible you suffer from a Borderline Personality Disorder (I hate that name)? Have you been diagnosed with it?
Maxime
> Actually I'm feeling a little fed up.
>
> Can I explain? Something's really on my mind.
>
> Right, you know before, I lied to my pdoc because I wanted her to think I was more ill than I really was. Then I decided to write to her, tell her it was a lie and get it off my chest.
>
> Now today, have I done the same thing? (nb: It wasn't my doc, it was my social worker, but same thing). I told her about my ideas with the soft toy cat and with the tutors at college. Am I doing the same stupid thing again?
>
> I feel annoyed with myself but I am trying not to because in fact, they are true. And therefore I'm thinking, if they're true, the doc needs to know. But I admit, I am aware that by telling my doc this she will think I am more ill and closer along the line towards schizophrenia. So why did I do it, was it for that? Do I want her to think I'm more ill than I am, like before?
>
> Well no, because before was a lie, and this is the truth.
>
> Sigh, I am so tired analysing all this. It's giving me a headache and making me very unhappy. If I have done the same thing again, it is a bad move therapy-wise, because what we are working on at the moment is trying to just be myself, "katie on her own". That is enough. Not "Katie plus schizophrenia".
>
> So overal I do think I said it in order to make myself seem more ill to her, but at the same time, it happened to be true, so therefore, is it so bad?
>
> I did explain what I explained to you here Ed, that I didn't loose my LOGIC. That I *felt* it, rather than *knew* it. So I could have lied about that, but I didn't did I! So that is good. I explained it how it really was. And I will do so again if she asks me about it. How I *just knew* it was true, but that I wouldn't go as far as to say people can see through walls, etc.
>
> So please if anyone can give me some advice about this as I am really churning it over :( :( :(
>
> Also, I am going to stop posting on babble or searching the net. I am so familiar with "typical" symptoms and signs etc, that is probably causing me even more problems because I KNOW what delusions to say to make me sound even more ill. If I lay off the "research" stuff, and just talk about ME, how I FEEL, and what I'm experiencing, I am bound to be better off in the long run, and this will be more accurate.
>
> Please reply people, as I feeling really emotional and run-down after today. I am feeling crap because I feel I've done what I did before. Stupid me. And I don't know whether I have or not, so please help me.
>
> :(
Posted by pretty_paints on February 9, 2005, at 3:50:58
In reply to Re: Fed up » pretty_paints, posted by Maxime on February 8, 2005, at 21:13:34
Hi Maxime,
No I don't think so. No I've never been diagnosed, it's never been mentioned, I don't even know much about it.
Why do you think it?
xxx
Posted by Maxime on February 9, 2005, at 20:45:30
In reply to Re: Fed up » Maxime, posted by pretty_paints on February 9, 2005, at 3:50:58
Hi. Well first of all I want to say that I really hate the diagnosis of a Borderline Personality disorder because I feel like it use too much when they can't figure out what is wrong with you.
This site has just about everything you need to learn more about BP.
http://www.bpdresources.com/diagnostic.html
Maxime
This is the end of the thread.
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