![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by KellyD on December 14, 2003, at 1:33:55
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by socialdeviantjeff on December 14, 2003, at 0:45:29
I believe it to be a quality of life issue. I could probably "go without" the very small bit of med I take. I was functional before, but the quailty of my functioning, and life in general, is improved on my med.
I can't separate the physical from the emotional in my struggles. I have a biologically based problem and treat it with the use of medication.
Keep in mind, most posters here are having problems with medications. There are countless folks who take meds for emotional, mood, etc... disorders that are living quality lives and they are not necessarily posting stories of good results on a forum. The view can get a bit slanted if you only use this forum to go by.
We all have choices and you must do what feels right for you, but don't discount a possibility for improvement with the use of medication.
Good Luck
Posted by Viridis on December 14, 2003, at 4:12:00
In reply to When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by sip on December 13, 2003, at 23:18:54
I'll just second what various others have said. There are many people here with severe problems, who absolutely have to take medications to function at all. Then there are others (here, and in society in general) who can get through life and just not enjoy it much.
I'm somewhere in the middle -- without medication, I have periods during which I'm fine, but inevitably I crash and lose parts of my life to anxiety and depression. I'm definitely better off with meds. I'm not likely to do anything "crazy" without them -- I'd just have to resign myself to being miserable about half the time.
My suggestion is to try the medications (you may have to try a fair number) and see if they help. If one (or a combination) does, then great; if not, you're still doing better than most of the people here.
My gut feeling is that since you're asking, you could be getting more out of life, and the right meds could help you achieve this.
Posted by HappyGirl on December 14, 2003, at 10:47:58
In reply to When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by sip on December 13, 2003, at 23:18:54
Hi:
First of all, why in the earth, the 'Two' therapists advised to take medication in the first place?, ... along with the reason why you knocked on the door to get 'two' different therapists to consult. You must have some kind of suspition on your mental health that brought you into this 'trek.' So, in my opinion, it's quite 'justified' for you to get appropriate measure, rx, because this is to be 'very first step' for your desire to get well.
However, on the otherhand, your saying, ... without rx/medication, you're enough able to function daily life, such as holding down a decent full-time job without any interference/depressive episodes, ... then I quite understand your question whether you should be on med.
In my personal knowledge, ... sometime, maybe not always tho', mental illness including your 'minor' distubed mental condition, ... getting worse as the time progresses. In that case, you certainly need to take responsible on your mental health. Then, the best bet is to consult with your pdoc., ... not the therapist whether you REALLY need med. In your case, it might need just 'very low-dosage' med. is good enough, as seeing your concern on med along with your *slight* disturbance on your mental health.
HappyGirl
Posted by Karalyn on December 15, 2003, at 1:25:12
In reply to When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by sip on December 13, 2003, at 23:18:54
> I've posted here about starting Lexapro and my anxieties about side effects and gotten some great and informative replies. I've been browsing this board and have been struck by how for so many folks meds are in response to crippling depression and/or anxiety.
>
> I guess this makes me feel a little bit like medication is unjustified for me. I have never suffered from crippling depression where you can't get up and find no joy in anything (I was just reading the newest thread on Lex and s/e's).
>
> I posted about why I started meds (after two therapists advised it and after I realized that for me being depressed was the norm and moments when I am content and happy feel like treats before I become extremely negative about everything and feel hopeless). However I have never been seriously suicidal or found that my depression and anxiety interfered with my ability to do my job and put one foot in front of the other to get through my day. Even when depressed I have had moments of pleasure or joy or being able to laugh at something.
>
> So I question whether meds is too extreme for me. I feel very fortunate that I've not experienced intense depression or panic attacks/social phobia. But I have no perspective when it comes to myself and am curious if anyone else is on meds for NON major depression and anxiety???
>
>
>hey I actually feel the same as you and i went on lexapro for a month cause my psychiatrist (whom i only saw twice) wanted me to try something. i thought hey im kinda moody and depressed maybe i need something...and insurance covers a few visits to get a diagosis so i figured why not. but when he stared loading me up with 3 meds by my ssecond appointment...i was concerend and i didnt want to take all that medicine--especially when i thought i was feeling a lot better. i have decided to try Amoryn (an herbal over the counter drug--check amoryn.com) it is very effective for people who have mild depression and dont want to be on prescriptions. there are hardly any side affects. ive talked online with people who have tried this. search online for Kelly's St. John Wort disscussion forum. st. johns wort is also effective for some people. check out your options, cause you may want to try something herbal first. not as much money and less side effects.
Posted by happyK on December 15, 2003, at 22:35:55
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by Karalyn on December 15, 2003, at 1:25:12
Hi. I am not depressed but have finally come to grips with having social anxiety. I have been to two months of talk therapy and although I enjoyed the sessions my anxiety was not getting better. My therapist actually recommended against meds if I didn't have too but I just couldn't stand it any longer. I saw my doctor and she recommended lexapro. The difference I am able to see in just one week may seem mild to some but I find myself being more friendly and less conscious of thinking people are judging me. I am happier and am truly glad that I started lexapro. I too was very hesitant about putting meds in my body and dont plan on being on it forever but while I continue therapy as well. If nothing else has worked for you give it a try. You just might find life a little easier to handle.
Posted by noa on December 16, 2003, at 17:45:51
In reply to When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by sip on December 13, 2003, at 23:18:54
As some others have said, if you don't have a level of illness where it is clear cut that medication is indicated, be thankful that you have the choice. From there it is an individual judgment call you make in concert with your doctors, weighing the positive effects of medication on your mental health and well being vs. any negative effects.
The only other thought is that for some people, there may be a "kindling" effect where if left untreated, the course of the depressive illness can become worse over time, which is an argument, of course, in favor of medicating.
But in terms of quantifiability--I think the criteria are the ways that the depression affect one's functioning in the various roles and areas of one's life, and the extent of the impact, but actually measuring the scope and severity of the impact is subjective, kind of like how we each quantify sensations of pain.
Posted by sip on December 22, 2003, at 2:45:13
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by happyK on December 15, 2003, at 22:35:55
I just wanted to thank people for your thoughtful replies re: whether medication is justified when my depression is not severely impairing my life. I agree that I have a great deal to be grateful for. I have decided that this is a quality of life issue (as one poster pointed out) and I certainly have struggled with depression even if I have not been totally disabled by it. I am going to keep taking my meds and give it a chance. This brings me to a subtopic:
Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but rather then clutter board space, I wanted to note that as I enter my third week on Lexapro I have noticed that I have not been depressed at all. I have felt sad, lonely, somewhat anxious -- but in the past triggers for these feelings (and I've experienced these triggers in the past few weeks -- it's the bleepin' holidays!) led me to sort of drown in a vortex of despair. I would get sad or lonely in response to something and just get sucked into hopelessness. Instead I've just experienced my unpleasant feelings but sort of kept going on, if that makes sense. The world didn't seem like it was ending; I did not feel I was the most worthless loser on the planet. I took it moment by moment instead of generalizing and universalizing it into a statement about my worth as a person or the state of my life. So, yes, that's something wonderful.
However, I've noticed that my feelings seem less intense, or I'm further away from them. For one thing I haven't cried the entire time I've been on Lexapro and it just feels weird to me. Maybe I sound ridiculous. I don't mean to sound like I am complaining. But I am kind of used to crying. I saw a movie this weekend and my friend was crying, the entire audience was sniffling, and ordinarily I would be as well. But there I was, completely dry eyed, sniffle-free.
Also, I am in the process of leaving a job to which I have strong emotional ties. I work with teenagers as a counselor and have developed strong relationships with some of the kids and with this job. I have been telling my kids about my departure. They are terribly sad (or angry, but that's another story) and I have been startled at my emotional apathy. I feel a little sadness, but I feel flattened. Maybe it's some defense and I'll feel the sadness of leaving when I'm ready, but it's so odd that even my work supervisor commented on it.
Is this normal? What I mean by this question is: is it more normal to go through you life not crying that much, feeling a little separate from your feelings, and I am just unsettled because I am not used to this? I guess everyone's norm is different; I am just discomfited that I don't have the same access to my emotions that I used to. That I feel less, and when I do it's at a bit of a distance.
Any feedback or opinions would be appreciated.
Posted by KellyD on December 22, 2003, at 7:24:23
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by sip on December 22, 2003, at 2:45:13
I think emotional flatness andd apathy (in varying degrees) can go along with the use of meds and it can also be part of the depressive process. Sorting this out can be a bit difficult. We may think there's a cause and effect relationship because they show up on a med start up but they could be related to the underlying problem. Time will tell. It may very well be a start up thing with the Lex.
For those of us who have spend our lives feeling and reacting to EVERYTHING, it is unsettling and doesn't feel "right". Changing is hard, but may be what we really need.
If this continues to the point you're really uncomfortable with it, I'm sure you'll discuss it with your doc.
Good Luck to you,
Kelly
Posted by Donna Louise on December 22, 2003, at 14:09:37
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by sip on December 22, 2003, at 2:45:13
> I just wanted to thank people for your thoughtful replies re: whether medication is justified when my depression is not severely impairing my life. I agree that I have a great deal to be grateful for. I have decided that this is a quality of life issue (as one poster pointed out) and I certainly have struggled with depression even if I have not been totally disabled by it. I am going to keep taking my meds and give it a chance. This brings me to a subtopic:
>
> Maybe I should start a new thread for this, but rather then clutter board space, I wanted to note that as I enter my third week on Lexapro I have noticed that I have not been depressed at all. I have felt sad, lonely, somewhat anxious -- but in the past triggers for these feelings (and I've experienced these triggers in the past few weeks -- it's the bleepin' holidays!) led me to sort of drown in a vortex of despair. I would get sad or lonely in response to something and just get sucked into hopelessness. Instead I've just experienced my unpleasant feelings but sort of kept going on, if that makes sense. The world didn't seem like it was ending; I did not feel I was the most worthless loser on the planet. I took it moment by moment instead of generalizing and universalizing it into a statement about my worth as a person or the state of my life. So, yes, that's something wonderful.
>
> However, I've noticed that my feelings seem less intense, or I'm further away from them. For one thing I haven't cried the entire time I've been on Lexapro and it just feels weird to me. Maybe I sound ridiculous. I don't mean to sound like I am complaining. But I am kind of used to crying. I saw a movie this weekend and my friend was crying, the entire audience was sniffling, and ordinarily I would be as well. But there I was, completely dry eyed, sniffle-free.
>
> Also, I am in the process of leaving a job to which I have strong emotional ties. I work with teenagers as a counselor and have developed strong relationships with some of the kids and with this job. I have been telling my kids about my departure. They are terribly sad (or angry, but that's another story) and I have been startled at my emotional apathy. I feel a little sadness, but I feel flattened. Maybe it's some defense and I'll feel the sadness of leaving when I'm ready, but it's so odd that even my work supervisor commented on it.
>
> Is this normal? What I mean by this question is: is it more normal to go through you life not crying that much, feeling a little separate from your feelings, and I am just unsettled because I am not used to this? I guess everyone's norm is different; I am just discomfited that I don't have the same access to my emotions that I used to. That I feel less, and when I do it's at a bit of a distance.
>
> Any feedback or opinions would be appreciated.
Wow, this is exactly how I have felt about loosing my feelings especially with Paxil. I have felt like a limb had been amputated or something, like I lost touch with my empathy and spirituality, like I lost a large part of who I am. I have wanted to still have my feelings of empathy and compassion, to be able to cry and also feel the ecstasy of great music. But the depression itself ultimately doesn't let me feel anything but hopelessness and despair. However! There is hope. The prozac for me does very little of the emotional flattening. I was actually crying with tears down my face the other day watching a glorious movie. I am really grateful to have some feelings and not be depressed. I am also on 150mg of lamictal and 100 of provigil and 20 of buspar. It seems like a ton of meds to me but I finally seem to be getting what I have been hoping for. Feelings without depression. Hope it lasts!
Posted by brussell on December 22, 2003, at 16:23:54
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by Donna Louise on December 22, 2003, at 14:09:37
Hello Sip,
The emotional flatness that you describe IS a very common effect of the SSRIs. As you may have seen from other posts, plenty of people find being less emotionally reactive a blessing.
For the short time I was on Lexapro I also couldn't cry, which I found quite disturbing. I also couldn't feel or visualize strong emotions, or make progress in my fiction or poetic work. I would literally look at my own work, be impressed, yet unable to imagine how I wrote it.
You definitely sound like you have suffered from "real" depression and need and deserve treatment. I'm glad you are getting relief from the Lexapro, and it's possible that the emotional flatness will get better with time. If it doesn't (and, like me, you don't like being emotionally flat) I have a few suggestions.
I agree with the poster who suggested Prozac. Prozac works very well as an AD for many and for me did not cause nearly as much loss in emotional reactivity.
Of the many antidepressants I've tried, I know of two that do not cause emotional numbing. The first is Welbutrin, which you can take with an SSRI like Lexapro or Prozac. Psychiatrists often use Welbutrin to counteract the sexual side effects of the SSRI; it might also help with the emotional flatness.
You might want to consider Welbutrin by itself. It tends to be an physically and emotionally energizing drug, and I liked it a great deal. Unfortunately its AD effects were not strong enough for my depression. It might be perfect for you, though.
The other AD that does not cause emotional flatness is Parnate, the MAOI (and possibly Nardil as well). This is what I take now.
Posted by sip on December 23, 2003, at 0:28:38
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by brussell on December 22, 2003, at 16:23:54
Hey, thanks for the responses. I'd like to take Wellbutrin b/c I heard it doesn't cause those notorious sexual s/e's but my doctor felt that anxiety is part of my depression and that Wellbutrin wouldn't help my anxiety. I am seeing her tomorrow
(BTW I am using my primary care physician for insurance purposes -- can't afford a psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist) and my therapist is not that pleased with this but I have a good relationship with my doctor. I trust her. But I wonder how well versed she is in some of the psych nuances? Do folks have strong feelings about psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist versus physician in the monitoring of psych meds???
And Donna Louise, I wanted to say I really resonated with your post because I am also a writer and a lot of my work (and creative process) is emotionally rooted. So I am a little nervous about this but I am going to wait and see. Maybe I can ask about adding Wellbutrin at some point! Thanks!
Posted by Donna Louise on December 23, 2003, at 7:58:04
In reply to Emotional Flatness/Psychiatrist vs. Physician?, posted by sip on December 23, 2003, at 0:28:38
> Hey, thanks for the responses. I'd like to take Wellbutrin b/c I heard it doesn't cause those notorious sexual s/e's but my doctor felt that anxiety is part of my depression and that Wellbutrin wouldn't help my anxiety. I am seeing her tomorrow
>
> (BTW I am using my primary care physician for insurance purposes -- can't afford a psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist) and my therapist is not that pleased with this but I have a good relationship with my doctor. I trust her. But I wonder how well versed she is in some of the psych nuances? Do folks have strong feelings about psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist versus physician in the monitoring of psych meds???
>
> And Donna Louise, I wanted to say I really resonated with your post because I am also a writer and a lot of my work (and creative process) is emotionally rooted. So I am a little nervous about this but I am going to wait and see. Maybe I can ask about adding Wellbutrin at some point! Thanks!Dear Sip, it is sure nice to know others have the same issues. Everyone I know on SSRI's don't seem to have that problem. Maybe they just never had such intense emotions so they don't know what they are missing! Anyway, I wanted to tell you that my experience with Wellbutrin was not good. It aggrevated the anxiety as your doctor predicted. And I was in a pretty good rage alot too. None of the good emotions. But I got alot done around the house. Just wasn't worth all the agitation and anxiety. BUT ! everyone is different and it sure wouldn't hurt to try, you can always discontinue without withdrawals, at least I could anyway. I am really happy with my regimen right now, hope it lasts. I sure do wish you the best of luck. Never give up, anything is possible.
Posted by sip on December 23, 2003, at 11:46:55
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by brussell on December 22, 2003, at 16:23:54
>
> For the short time I was on Lexapro I also couldn't cry, which I found quite disturbing. I also couldn't feel or visualize strong emotions, or make progress in my fiction or poetic work. I would literally look at my own work, be impressed, yet unable to imagine how I wrote it.
>
Oops, Brussell got confused by format of this board and misattributed what you said to Donna Louise (who was also helpful!) but anyway I really related to the above concerns around writing as I'm a writer myself! Thanks, I feel a little less alone in this worry.
Posted by fogmama on December 23, 2003, at 22:52:20
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness » brussell, posted by sip on December 23, 2003, at 11:46:55
Hi sip, Donna Louise, brussel --
I am new here. I'm not on any meds; I have only taken over the counter amino acids & herbs for depression in the past.
I was struck by the fact that the three of you are writers ... as am I. Currently jobless, other than being a new mother ... and yet I can't seem to get my s*** together to write, nor to do anything else for that matter. This is severely affecting my family economics, and it's time to make a change.
Not sure whether meds are the right option, especially as I'm nursing for the next 6+ months ... but I related so much to sip's description of how she felt without them in the past - that whole sad vortex of suffering, feeling worthless, self-negation that we sink into. I'm ready to stop it, but scared of losing the impetus to create ... and yet I recognize that depression is also keeping me from making anything of my art.
I once read an essay by a writer I respect, who had gone onto Prozac. She said she felt like the same person, except that she could get done the things that she had not been able to get done. That's exactly what I want! But I am still afraid of flipping some switch that will turn me into someone entirely different. An acceptable wife and mother, perhaps, maybe even a productive and fully employed citizen ... but maybe not me. Maybe that would be OK. I don't know.
Well that's all. Thank you all for including the detail that you're writers. I feel less alone.
fogmama
Posted by jack smith on December 24, 2003, at 0:00:35
In reply to When are meds justified? Is it quantifiable?, posted by sip on December 13, 2003, at 23:18:54
Posted by Donna Louise on December 24, 2003, at 7:34:41
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by fogmama on December 23, 2003, at 22:52:20
> Hi sip, Donna Louise, brussel --
>
> I am new here. I'm not on any meds; I have only taken over the counter amino acids & herbs for depression in the past.
>
> I was struck by the fact that the three of you are writers ... as am I. Currently jobless, other than being a new mother ... and yet I can't seem to get my s*** together to write, nor to do anything else for that matter. This is severely affecting my family economics, and it's time to make a change.
>
> Not sure whether meds are the right option, especially as I'm nursing for the next 6+ months ... but I related so much to sip's description of how she felt without them in the past - that whole sad vortex of suffering, feeling worthless, self-negation that we sink into. I'm ready to stop it, but scared of losing the impetus to create ... and yet I recognize that depression is also keeping me from making anything of my art.
>
> I once read an essay by a writer I respect, who had gone onto Prozac. She said she felt like the same person, except that she could get done the things that she had not been able to get done. That's exactly what I want! But I am still afraid of flipping some switch that will turn me into someone entirely different. An acceptable wife and mother, perhaps, maybe even a productive and fully employed citizen ... but maybe not me. Maybe that would be OK. I don't know.
>
> Well that's all. Thank you all for including the detail that you're writers. I feel less alone.
>
> fogmamaFogmama, love that moniker! I sure do understand your dilemna. I wasted (?) a few years resisting meds, sure that I could think my way out of it or just have more mental discipline. Or that I could just improve my faith in a higher power. Well, I just ended up feeling like a huge failure since I couldn't pull it off. So I surrendered and took the meds. Then I realized I was trying to fix my broken brain with a broken brain. Anyway, I didn't know how much better I could feel until I felt the difference. I have had to take a bunch of different meds over the years as my brain physiology changed (anyone, can you elaborate on that phenom?). and have settled on my current regimen for the time being, as long as it will last! This includs 20mg of prozac, the only SSRI that does not cause any significant emotional flattening. Just enough to keep me out of the bed after seeing rode kill! You can always try it and quit if you don't like it. I would forget I had that option..
Posted by fogmama on December 24, 2003, at 15:31:20
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by Donna Louise on December 24, 2003, at 7:34:41
DL - thank you. I also forget that I can "just try it". It's like taking meds is an invisible line I don't want to cross. Which judging from your post you can probably relate to. I am going to try therapy in the new year & have some kind of commitment to change. Depression cost me my business and then a good (but grueling) job that I couldn't handle in my current state. Something's GOT to change.
Posted by Waterlily on December 25, 2003, at 15:14:55
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by fogmama on December 23, 2003, at 22:52:20
Fogmama - I'm struck by the fact that you're a new mother yet you said that you can't seem to get your stuff together. Guess what? That HAPPENS when you have a baby. All you have time for is the baby. Forget about getting it all together because it ain't gonna happen. You might be able to put on a good act,but in reality mothering a new baby is the hardest job on the face of the earth. My daughters are 9 and 11 and I woudn't go back to having an infant for anything.
Regarding your reluctance to going on an antidepressant, I woudn't be. You're missing out on all of the joys of your baby's infancy. I experienced severe depression after my second daughter was born. It took me three months to get help and start on Zoloft. I feel like I missed out on all of the joys of the first three months of her life because I was so depressed. She was a wonderful baby and once I was on antidepressants I was able to thoroughly enjoy her. I nursed her until she was almost two years old. My nurse-midwife first suggested Zoloft when I saw her for my 6 week checkup. When I saw the psychiatrist for the first time, he called my daughter's pediatrician to get permission to prescribe Zoloft for me. All is well and my daughter is a happy, well-adjusted child.
Please, don't be afraid to try antidepressants. At the worst, you'll end up going off them and back to where you are now.
> Hi sip, Donna Louise, brussel --
>
> I am new here. I'm not on any meds; I have only taken over the counter amino acids & herbs for depression in the past.
>
> I was struck by the fact that the three of you are writers ... as am I. Currently jobless, other than being a new mother ... and yet I can't seem to get my s*** together to write, nor to do anything else for that matter. This is severely affecting my family economics, and it's time to make a change.
>
> Not sure whether meds are the right option, especially as I'm nursing for the next 6+ months ... but I related so much to sip's description of how she felt without them in the past - that whole sad vortex of suffering, feeling worthless, self-negation that we sink into. I'm ready to stop it, but scared of losing the impetus to create ... and yet I recognize that depression is also keeping me from making anything of my art.
>
> I once read an essay by a writer I respect, who had gone onto Prozac. She said she felt like the same person, except that she could get done the things that she had not been able to get done. That's exactly what I want! But I am still afraid of flipping some switch that will turn me into someone entirely different. An acceptable wife and mother, perhaps, maybe even a productive and fully employed citizen ... but maybe not me. Maybe that would be OK. I don't know.
>
> Well that's all. Thank you all for including the detail that you're writers. I feel less alone.
>
> fogmama
Posted by antigua on December 25, 2003, at 23:02:01
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by Waterlily on December 25, 2003, at 15:14:55
Waterlily, I agree w/you 100%. Being a new mother is the hardest thing possible and fogmama, give yourself a break, you can't get it all done right now. You have to make so many more choices now and they are so difficult! I now realize how depressed I was after my first child was born--I loved my son w/a passion, but I had a lot of ups & downs that first year (lost my job, too). My second child was better, but w/the third I was on prozac during and after the pregancy. It was the very best decision I could have made. Although I was dealing w/the demands of three kids, a husband and a freelance business, I was definitely much calmer, happier and centered. I know it was the med. I went off it when my youngest was 2. This past year I was hit w/another debilitating round of depression and I recognized I had to get back on something. This time it's Effexor and while I don't like the SEs I knew I needed to do something.
So hang in there, meds don't HAVE to be a lifelong thing but if you can think about them being there when you need them (if they work for you, of course) they can be a godsend.
One last thing. I am a writer too. I can't believe how many writers there are on here. Maybe we should start a writer's group! I worried about prozac flattening my creativity, but the energy that was released from no longer having to deal w/my anxiety was a real bonus. I don't know about the effexor yet. I haven't been working too much right now, but I'm planning to get back into working next year (my New Year's resolution) and I'll see what happens.
Good luck and enjoy the baby. It goes by so very fast, you won't believe it.
antigua
Posted by fogmama on December 28, 2003, at 18:32:30
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by Waterlily on December 25, 2003, at 15:14:55
antigua, Waterlily,
Thank you for your kind words. It's so hard to forgive myself, especially for losing my job ... I'm just beginning to recognize that the very depression I was dealing with was making it hard for me to do the work that was demanded of me. (Plus be a parent, nursing and all included.)
But I also know that even at my best I'm not 100% and never have been. I can remember being 7 years old and telling my mom I was depressed! The idea of meds seems so easy, and I think that's what frightens me. It's a paradox.
Antigua, I like your idea of a writers' section - maybe a section for all artists. Dr bob?
Thanks to both of you & have a wonderful new year.
fogmama
Posted by sip on December 29, 2003, at 15:53:20
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness, posted by fogmama on December 23, 2003, at 22:52:20
but I related so much to sip's description of how she felt without them in the past - that whole sad vortex of suffering, feeling worthless, self-negation that we sink into. I'm ready to stop it, but scared of losing the impetus to create ... and yet I recognize that depression is also keeping me from making anything of my art.
>
> I once read an essay by a writer I respect, who had gone onto Prozac. She said she felt like the same person, except that she could get done the things that she had not been able to get done. That's exactly what I want! But I am still afraid of flipping some switch that will turn me into someone entirely different. An acceptable wife and mother, perhaps, maybe even a productive and fully employed citizen ... but maybe not me. Maybe that would be OK. I don't know.
>
> Well that's all. Thank you all for including the detail that you're writers. I feel less alone.
>Hi fogmama,
I just wanted to acknowledge your words. You are definitely not alone. I actually felt a little blue these past few days and was sort of relieved! It made me feel less scared that I was losing the ability to feel. I was just sad and a little down -- but it didn't overpower or overwhelm me which I think is a really positive thing.
I have come to realize that I am learning a new way of being/feeling and it's unfamiliar but it doesn't mean it's bad. I think there's a romanticized notion that good writing comes from suffering and I think that myth is harmful. Needless suffering is not a muse. Needless suffering has silenced me and taken away my words at times. In another extreme, it also killed some writers (Sylvia Plath, Virginia Woolf, Anne Sexton) who could have produced more work had they not chosen to kill themselves to end their suffering. I think that's the real loss and tragedy and I refuse to succumb to the idea that living in pain is the only impetus for art.
But I do relate to the fears you described and wanted you to know that.
Also wanted to say congratulations on being a new mother and be kind to yourself.
Posted by fogmama on December 30, 2003, at 18:00:45
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness » fogmama, posted by sip on December 29, 2003, at 15:53:20
sip,
>Needless suffering has silenced me and taken away my words at times.
Yes! That's it exactly. I also really want to try to publish my work, maybe even start a zine or a small press ... but fear/emotional paralysis stops me from daring to send anything out or take positive steps to get anything going on my own.
Partly, the fear is that I might get it started, but not follow through (I've got many years' worth of unfinished projects stashed away in boxes already) and thus depress myself further.
But I'm at a time and place in life (new mother, at midlife) where I'm realizing it is truly Now or Never.
Thank you for your kindness. You are helping more than you probably realize!
Cheers,
fm
Posted by antigua on December 31, 2003, at 10:33:42
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness » sip, posted by fogmama on December 30, 2003, at 18:00:45
Start a zine? Been there, too. I have the whole magazine written and laid out but I couldn't ever take the next step to actually print & publish it. My fears have stopped me from realizing my dreams.
antigua
Posted by reluctant on December 31, 2003, at 21:50:55
In reply to Emotional Flatness/Psychiatrist vs. Physician?, posted by sip on December 23, 2003, at 0:28:38
hi,
It's well worth your while to make a few calls around. I am definitely on the bottom of the economic ladder, but have been working with a pdoc every few months who offers a sliding scale - I pay $50/visit. Not quite cheap, but a lot cheaper than the usual rate. I wanted to begin more regular therapy, so I asked for some recommendations from a friend, and made a few calls - and asked the pdoc I talked to (who didn't have any time available) if she knew of anyone with a sliding scale. She told me of a colleague who has a really low slide, because he doesn't need the money but loves the work. I'll meet him on Tuesday . . . and hopefully all will go well. They're out there! You have to do some looking, but there are people who are willing to help.
take care.
Posted by fogmama on January 2, 2004, at 18:22:17
In reply to Re: When are meds justified? emotional flatness » fogmama, posted by antigua on December 31, 2003, at 10:33:42
> Start a zine? Been there, too. I have the whole magazine written and laid out but I couldn't ever take the next step to actually print & publish it. My fears have stopped me from realizing my dreams.
> antiguaAntigua,
Happy new year to you! Thanks again for sharing with me your feelings ... I have sooooooo been there.
With the only self-publishing project I've ever completed, I ended up getting help, or it would never have gotten done. I had let myself get stuck on the cover being "perfect", and I was starting to paralyze, but my husband helped me over that hump.
The book got printed, went out to contributors, and everyone loved it so much, no one complained a bit about the time it had taken. If only they'd known it almost didn't happen at all! That was my own secret shame. The next one, I refused his help, and that was that - it is also completed, but sits in a drawer, unpublished, uncirculated, and shaming me to this day. Ugh. I can tell you that the first experience was much more positive in the end than the second one - the book is on my bookshelf instead of in embryonic form in a drawer! So if there is anyone you trust, who can help you get "over the hump" in whatever way, if I can offer any experience, I'd encourage you to talk to him or her and try to get your work out there, however "late" you might feel it is.
Others may not perceive it as "late" at all - in fact they probably won't even be aware of your struggle - and I can assure you they will value your writing and the spirit you have to share.
Well, I am hoping for better things this year, for both of us.
When my son grows up, I want him to know me as someone who did things, not just dreamed about them.
fm
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