![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 63 to 87 of 101. Go back in thread:
Posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:41:29
In reply to Re: Simplified Theories and Philosophical Musings » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 8, 2003, at 20:58:57
Laura777,
> actually the above theory is Bobs ,,
Oops, I missed that. For a layman, I think I'm fairly versed in neuro-anatomy and neurochemistry, but I got lost somewhere in that thread between you and Bob.
> But shouldn't the emotional misery be tempered with joy , fun , and just basic happiness once in awhile ??Well sure, it should, but there's the rub - reality is not obligated to follow our ideals of how things ought to be.
That does not mean we should stop trying to make things better, or give up on our ideals, just that we need to have a certain amount of stoicism about the results of our efforts.
> i used to like to go trail hiking ,i love the trees nature ect ect ,, and i have done many things that i see others are enjoying and i do not see it .. it is like everything is DULL . i know that it is not me physchologically . i am very aware . i have been self examing and focusing for years , and as a result of that i am pretty healthy .. but still a work in progress just like everyone else .. but what is this Dull thing .. gotta be biological .. i remember going out in snowstorms and it being so enchanting . truly , now it is dull , i have no answers ...
I would like to share a few snippets from literature with you...things I've found to be very expressive of this anhedonia. But we're already way off topic, and Dr. Bob is gonna redirect us soon to Psycho-Social-Babble,
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/
so if you're interested come over and look for the "anhedonia" thread.
> I am no intellectual Giant in philosophy , i am just interested in it because i think alot.. about alot of things and i find this interests me ...but there has to be more .. i see people enjoying a smattering of things and i know i used to also , now it is dull , why is this ??
No answers here, but I do think you'll like the snippets over in Social...
> be easy with me on the philosophy terms because i do not know them ,so explain some of these things to me ... i will try and find some of your posts in the religion section , thanks , lauraOops, sorry, I feel like a dork babbling on in jargon. It's just that philosophy, both in the general sense of wonder about why things are, and in the formal sense of the academic discipline, are really excing to me, and I do get carried away.
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 8:26:31
In reply to Re: Simplified Theories and Philosophical Musings » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:41:29
hey fachad , here is a post that i stumbled across that is very much true , and that is why this problem of discomfort is so complicated ..
anyway here is the post i am refering to ...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/405.html
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 9:22:00
In reply to BUMMED OUT BIG TIME, posted by not exactly on February 8, 2003, at 18:36:55
hey bob, i have thought alot about this , and from what i can see , is that some people are born with a deficet in both D2 receptor in the nucleus accumbens and a deficet in the endorphins . I believe this area has been looked into but very cautiously because of the addiction factor .. in fact there are meds that block like naltexone . opiate blocker ..
but this only addresses the issue of making the person stop the behaviour , not why they intiated the behavior in the first place ..
i also believe that it is an incompleteness in them that causes this behaviour .. there are many factors invovled and i will just give you a link to where fachad described these factors so very well .. here it is below
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20020527/msgs/405.htmlWhat if a person takes care of the spiritual end , the phsycological end and even the behavioural end but is still is suffering ..
this is the place that i am at .. truly ...
Now i think it is very strange to me that when i ingest some form of opiate, this state in my being begins to change ... this is imperical proof to me that there is something amiss in this area of my biochemistry ..And even though they create drugs that stop addicts from feeling this , because addiction is a horrible state , they need to address what it is that started the whole process in the first place , What makes this complicated is all the factors in fachads post must be considered because they are all very important ... Some people it may be just a screw up in there physcological , hence thearpy is sucessful.. the person is free now .. some it may be a combo of behavioral issuse which in my opinion is directly tied to phsycological .. and the spriritual thing in conjuction with this as well..
Then there is the biological end , could this be the reason why so many fail at alcoholics anonymous or the narcotics anonymous ???i am not stating here that one should continue an addiction to any substance because it breeds a vicious cycle and exasberates the problem .. Sort of like hitting a broken leg with a hammer in hopes that it will heal ...
But this incompleteness that so many feel that lead them to these substances is very real.. and i guess it depends on wheather it's phsychological, or behavioral only ...is directly connected to wheather you become a sucess at being substance free and and content in your life ..
the word content is very operative here .. i am in a state of discontent .. even though i have taken care of all the factors mentioned in fachads post .. i am mentally healthy .. what i mean to say is that i was able to change dysfunctional patterns and perceptions ..
So now here i am stuck at the biological end ...i wonder if the d2 receptor has any link to endorphins ????
i keep going back to endorphins because one of thier properties is that they cause a sense of well being completeness , contentment .. and if you read the article i gave you about the experiment with the alcohol and non alcoholic mice you can see the connection , And wheather a person reaches this state of discontentment because of substance abuse or because they were born with it , or because of tramatic shock is really moot!!!! the point is ... is that it is a very real and profound issue that effects every area of my life .. your thoughts ???
thanks , laura
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 9:25:16
In reply to Simplified Theories and Philosophical Musings » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 19:37:40
hey Fachad please read this post and i would love to here your thoughts ..
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140275.html
i do appreciate you time and input , laura
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 17:38:31
In reply to Re: Fachad please read and give thoughts !! » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 9:25:16
I'm digesting that post, but as I'm thinking through the reply, I realize that it is somewhat off topic.
Dr. Bob has set up guidelines about only medication related stuff being posted here, and he would eventually redirect this thread over to social.
I admit I think it's a bit awkward, because we are talking about both medication and non-medication issues, but I can also see the reason for segregating the discussions.
So give me a bit of time to come up with something, and I'll reply over there...
> hey Fachad please read this post and i would love to here your thoughts ..
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140275.html
>
> i do appreciate you time and input , laura
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 19:16:48
In reply to Re: Fachad please read and give thoughts !! » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 9:25:27
> hey Fachad please read this post and i would love to here your thoughts ..
I think you could fill several books with answers from different angles to these questions. But here is one preliminary thought - a way of seeing the question a different way.
>...i also believe that it is an incompleteness in them that causes this behavior ...What if a person takes care of the spiritual end , the physiological end and even the behavioral end but is still is suffering ..
I want to be careful here and state right from the beginning that I am only stating personal opinion, what works for me. I'm not implying that it's true for everyone, or judging anyone for interpreting things differently.
That being said, I think that part of "taking care of the spiritual end" includes finding a way to be at peace with things that are not as they should be, such as feelings of incompleteness and senseless suffering.
The need to understand and cope with those exact feelings are the driving factors behind spirituality.
If the problem (suffering, feelings of incompleteness, or whatever) is solvable by medication, or behavior, some known means, then it is just plain wrong to address it with spirituality. In that case you are evading reality and that is the real danger in a spiritual approach.
But on the other hand, I think that some kind of suffering, be it physical pain, or emotional pain, or emptiness, or boredom, or ennui, or existential dread or whatnot, is always going to be present to some extent, just a little ahead of whatever means our science has developed to relieve suffering.
So for me, taking care of the physical and behavioral components is an on-going lifelong process, and whatever suffering is left after I have done my best is the Prima Materia for the spiritual process.
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 19:22:45
In reply to Incompleteness and Residual Suffering » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 19:16:48
The above post was supposed to go to Social. Oops.
I'll post a little more on that same line over there.
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 19:48:15
In reply to The above post was supposed to go to Social, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 19:22:45
hey Fachad , what i meant by incompleteness was the incompleteness of the full range of emotions , i can feel all the unpleasant feelings really well , but when it comes to the pleasant ones , ???? i guess i should have explained it better , . i am responsible for my happiness , i know this , but there is something amiss here and i have done alot of work on myself and know that i am a work in progress ,, but again this anhedonia ??? thanks laura
Posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 20:56:29
In reply to Incompleteness and Residual Suffering » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 19:16:48
"God grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the MEDS to move as much as possible from the first category to the second."
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 21:35:38
In reply to Re: Incompleteness and Residual Suffering, posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 20:56:29
hey check this link out , it is exactly what i have been talking about and its in great detail , it does not matter how the system got screwed up .. many things can cause it , and if you notice you are fully capable of feeling the unpleasant emotions ... but the pleasant ones seem to be illusive ,, why would we have receptors for opioid peptides in the area of emotion and learning .. opiate peptides are not just physical pain killers . anyway check it out and let me know what you think .//
Posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 21:48:09
In reply to Re: The above post was supposed to go to Social » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 19:48:15
>hey Fachad , what i meant by incompleteness was the incompleteness of the full range of emotions , i can feel all the unpleasant feelings really well , but when it comes to the pleasant ones , ????
Ok, so you are describing anhedonia as if it were a defect of perception, like color blindness. You can experience the full range of negative emotions, but not the positive ones. And you are hopeful that this defect is based in and remediable by chemical processes.
I was just suggesting an alternate perspective.
I think I mentioned in an earlier post that MAOIs have shown the most effectiveness for anhedonia, and the best solid scientific research I've seen to date is in a collection of articles edited by Fawcett and Clark, titled "Anhedonia and Affect Deficit States". It's now out of print, but you can find a copy thru abebooks.com or amazon.com used. It's in depth research and theory in anhedonia., and well worth the price.
You know that SSRI and stimulants don't help. As far as things to try, there are TCAs, MAOIs, and lithium and the newer anticonvulsants. Some have even reported success with the newer antipsychotics, citing similarities between anhedonia and the "negative symptoms" of schizophrenia. If you can find a special pdoc, you may be able to get a BUPRENORPHINE trial.
Using these meds for anhedonia is really a trial and error process. It’s not nearly as well researched as treating conventional depression or anxiety. I also share the desire to understand the underlying physiological mechanisms that produce anhedonia, but I would caution you that in my personal experience, the correlation between theoretical considerations and the practical effects of these meds is not always there.
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 22:01:58
In reply to Incompleteness and Anhedonia » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 21:48:09
hey Fachad , i know what you mean about being careful , but i have to try .. if there can be things wrong with our insulin , if we can have a sero problem or a norepinephrine problem , we can have an opioid peptide problem .. i know this is very simple , our brains are fantastic and each and every one of us are different that is why it is such a crap shoot with the meds .. buprenorphine is something i may consider ,, and it is something that i will talk about with the pdoc when i see him on the 21st of febuary ..
the brain is so complicated and while they know alot , they still don't know a whole lot .. in my searches i have been reading about autism , schiz , parkinson disease ,( fist thing that comes up when you mention dopamine) .. these maladys are all so sad ..
laura
Posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 23:10:05
In reply to Re: Incompleteness and Residual Suffering, posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 20:56:29
"God grant me the SEROTONIN to accept the things I cannot change,
the NOREPINEPHRINE to change the things I can,
and the DOPAMINE to care which is which."
Posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 23:46:36
In reply to another version (for Laura), posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 23:10:05
> "God grant me the SEROTONIN to accept the things I cannot change,
> the NOREPINEPHRINE to change the things I can,
> and the DOPAMINE to care which is which."
>VERY GOOD !! that is a good one .. you feeling better ?? laura
Posted by fachad on February 10, 2003, at 0:52:16
In reply to Re: Incompleteness and Residual Suffering, posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 20:56:29
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking.
I was actually thinking about the Serenity Prayer when I wrote that post! But thanks for the fantastic revision of that classic, which says as much in one sentence as I said in a whole page.
> "God grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change, the COURAGE to change the things I can, and the MEDS to move as much as possible from the first category to the second."
>
Posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 2:46:20
In reply to Yes, Exactly! » not exactly, posted by fachad on February 10, 2003, at 0:52:16
> That is EXACTLY what I was thinking.
>
> I was actually thinking about the Serenity Prayer when I wrote that post! But thanks for the fantastic revision of that classic, which says as much in one sentence as I said in a whole page.Glad you liked it. I'm not going to claim it was mental telepathy, but reading your insightful post reminded me of that old prayer. I quickly came up with that parody as a humorous way of paraphrasing what I thought was your essential concept.
- Bob
Posted by not exactly on February 10, 2003, at 3:18:18
In reply to Re: another version (for Laura) » not exactly, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 23:46:36
> you feeling better ??
Yes, thanks. Much better. For at least 3 reasons.
1) I finally finished a large unpleasant task that I had been procrastinating. So I feel good that I did it, that I did it well, and that it's no longer hanging over my head. And maybe the desipramine is finally helping my motivation.
2) I had made the mistake of changing 2 variables at once. I was trying to wean myself off of Neurontin [see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030125/msgs/137900.html] at the same time I was waiting for the desipramine to kick in. The really bad WHY BOTHER syndrome hit the day after I had finally cut the Neurontin to zero. Later that evening, I realized that it might be relevant, and went back to taking a teeny bit of Neurontin. Within a day I felt much better. So I'll stay at this low level for a while longer before going cold turkey again.
3) Humor. No matter how low I'm feeling, if I can somehow laugh about something, it helps pull me out. The Serenity Prayer parodies were a successful exercise in humor therapy.
- Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2003, at 9:18:09
In reply to Re: Simplified Theories and Philosophical Musings » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 8, 2003, at 23:41:29
> I would like to share a few snippets from literature with you...things I've found to be very expressive of this anhedonia. But we're already way off topic, and Dr. Bob is gonna redirect us soon to Psycho-Social-Babble ... so if you're interested come over and look for the "anhedonia" thread.
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030208/msgs/36701.html
Bob
Posted by rayww on February 12, 2003, at 0:16:15
In reply to Re: BUMMED OUT BIG TIME » not exactly, posted by LAURA777 on February 9, 2003, at 9:22:00
I understand what you are saying about the different layers of depression. From my experience you can have every one of your issues resolved. You can be physically fit, spiritually secure, emotionally cozy, but when it hits, it hits. The psychosis affects all the layers at once. you become spiritually wierd, emotionally warped, physically ill, socially inept. I really don't think you become just spiritually depressed or just emotionally crashed, or physically down.
I was labelled bipolar about three years ago. Before that I thought I just had issues to deal with, so I went from one issue to the next, and as soon as that was resolved, another would surface, until it seemed never ending. There was always another emotional issue to work out, dating back to my father's death, surgery, moving countries, shyness, relationships, at the same time managing a large family and business.
I used various methods of "working" my way into areas of work that needed done, and became the chart master, and I survived all right. I have a chart for every mood possible. But it seemed like the psychosis kept getting worse instead of better, even though my life's issues had eased up.
I was spiritually minded, making sure I scheduled time for daily prayer, scripture study, meditation, and journal writing. I was committed to community service, church service, physical exercise, and family. I have never had a substance addiction, but every time "it" hit me I went psychotic behind the scenes in my mind and would almost betray my family, but I never did.
Each time whatever it was hit me, it was a little worse, and finally my concerned family decided I needed an evaluation. I had two, a spiritual evaluation from my clergy leader, and a medical/mental evaluation from my doctor.
My year of hell was the one spent on medication. I felt emotionally shut down, couldn't get my words out, and yet I had to keep going in the positions I held. I didn't know enough about meds to know how to shop around, and epival and topomax was what I ended up with.
I guess the meds served their purpose because I was able to go off them after about a year. (who watches time any more?) My issues decreased in severity, but still kept surfacing until I tried some nutritional supplements, which seemed to take the edge off and bring me back around to a relatively normal state, if there is such.
Most of what surfaces I let out here on PB (like this right now) and comparing what I write now to how I was writing back then, it is very mild.
I am going on here, and I'm not quite sure if I'm still on topic, but I guess my main point of this was to say, about the layers of depression, my opinion is that even when every layer is problem free, biological depression can still strike for no apparent reason, other than your own mis-perception of what is going on in your life. Like for instance, I am bipolar and rotate around in moods, including sexual ones. When I'm off the sexual swing and my partner is on his, which is very predictable and regular, I can have a nervous break by just thinking about it. If he becomes determined I can feel raped, abused, and worthless, because I absolutely cannot and there is nothing I can do to make him understand I still love him and my love is not expressed by sex. (You can tell I've been there and done that again and again). It would be easy to blame the whole bipolar problem onto sex, and justify it, but in reality I know the problem was the psychosis and the warped perception. Actually, I wish someone could evaluate this and tell me, is it possible for sex to bring on a psychotic reaction and a nervous melt down?
Posted by JeffH on February 12, 2003, at 21:31:24
In reply to ADHEDONIA QUESTIONS ?? please read , posted by LAURA777 on February 2, 2003, at 16:53:01
I have visited Psycho Babble once in many months as I am doing so well.
Your story could easily be mine. I'm 47 and had depression and extreme anhedonia since the age of 12. Life was the grayest of grays.
Last year, I was prescribed Parnate. Within a week, I became manic (which I loved), which confirmed BipolarII. My doc and I, after discussion, lowered the dosage dramatically and then I slowly went back up to full dose.
The result? It was and is beautiful. Depressions gone. Anxiety gone. Irritability and rages gone. Anhedonia - 80% gone.
I am piecing my destroyed life back together.
I haven't read enough of your posts, but I think that you haven't tried a MAOI? Definitely worth a try if you haven't.
The diet restrictions should be followed vigilantly. I drank a couple glasses of red wine and was quickly in a hypertensive crisis. Scary.
Good luck and keep going. The drug(s) you're looking for are out there somewhere.
Jeff
Posted by LAURA777 on February 14, 2003, at 7:14:19
In reply to another version (for Laura), posted by not exactly on February 9, 2003, at 23:10:05
> "God grant me the SEROTONIN to accept the things I cannot change,
> the NOREPINEPHRINE to change the things I can,
> and the DOPAMINE to care which is which."
>Hey Bob , heres another version which i think more closely fits my situation ..
"God grant me the SEROTONIN to accept the things I cannot change,
the NOREPINEPHRINE to change the things I can,
and the ENDORPHINS to care which is which."
if you read about the HPA axis and the production of CRF ACTH and high levels of cortisol in the blood of depressed patients and substance abusers ( heroin when activiely taken lowers the NE and cortisol , that is why when someone withdrawals from heroin there is a backlash of high NE production ).. high levels of cortisol cause a dysfunction in the way opioid peptides are able to respond , it hinders them ..normal cortisol levels and when the negitive feedback loop is sucessful opioid peptides get released to conterbalance the stress anxiety reaction .. it is part of the checks and balances of our system .. dopamine is a neuromodulator of opiate peptides and opiate peptides are a neuromodulator of dopamine as well .. it depends what is happening in the system .. under stress that is not long acting, opiate peptides are released to counter balance the surge of norepinephrine in the flight of fight of stress .. but in chronic stress , for whatever reason , some people are very sensitve to stress , thier HPA axis goes into overdrive .. they believe that is why some people are more likely to become alcoholics and drug abusers .. we take substances to reach homostasis because of lack of opiate peptide production .. Sensitivity to Norepiniephrine or too much ??? i don't know ?? or your theory about dopamine converting to NE to fast ?? these could all be likely .. NE is the excititory neuro that acctivates the sympathetic nervous system , i have an overactive or sensitive (i do not know which ) sympathetic nervous sys.. i sweat under my arms way more the most people , fast metabolism , enormous energy hyper ,(except when i am bored and have to push this saps my energy late in afternoon), also tremendous ability to focus .. and theres the fact that i am sensitiive to all and evey stimulant .(even that little bit that they deliver with the novicaine in the dentist ) .There is more , but if you are not interested , i won't take up your time .. so let me know , thanks , laura
Posted by LAURA777 on February 18, 2003, at 16:23:15
In reply to Incompleteness and Anhedonia » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 9, 2003, at 21:48:09
"Ok, so you are describing anhedonia as if it were a defect of perception, like color blindness. You can experience the full range of negative emotions, but not the positive ones. And you are hopeful that this defect is based in and remediable by chemical processes"
what do you mean by this statement ??
are you saying that my expierience of my emotions and what is felt is contingient on my perception of them ???
like if i am happy i can change that emotion with a mere perception ???Anhedonia definition is , inability to expierience pleasure ... the positve feelings of our wonderful range of emotions is closely linked to our ability to expierience pleasure ..
if anhedoina meant the inability to expierience pleasure as well as the negitive emotions , it should be stated as such..
Endorphins are directly related to this .. and as far as i know there is nothing on this planet that enhances these except noxious addictive chemicals .. so basically i am screwed .. thanks , laura
Posted by fachad on February 19, 2003, at 13:18:28
In reply to fachad what do you mean??? » fachad, posted by LAURA777 on February 18, 2003, at 16:23:15
Laura,
> "Ok, so you are describing anhedonia as if it were a defect of perception, like color blindness..."
> what do you mean by this statement ??
All I meant by that was that at this point in your life, you were working from the perspective that anhedonia is based in physiological and chemical processes, and your efforts were directed toward understanding those processes, how they related to other psychopathologies like addiction, and how current pharmacotherapy could be utilized to correct the underlying problems.
> are you saying that my experience of my emotions and what is felt is contingent on my perception of them ???
No, just the opposite.
Someone who is biologically color blind does not have any influence on the way he sees color - that is determined by physical structures in his eyes, nerves, and brain. No matter how he deals with it, or what he decides it "means", he just doesn't have the visual experience of "green" or whatever, because the physical structures necessary to have that experience are not there.
> like if i am happy i can change that emotion with a mere perception ???
No, my earlier posts were suggestive along those lines. I was trying to present the possibility that SOME of the experiences you were describing were subject to interpretation and that a change of perspective COULD be a way to deal with them.
But as I read more of your posts, and looked at the articles you linked, I realized your perspective was oriented more toward understanding of biological underpinnings and pharmacological treatments. So I put up the post in question to let you know that I think I figured out where you are coming from.
>Anhedonia definition is , inability to experience pleasure ... the positive feelings of our wonderful range of emotions is closely linked to our ability to experience pleasure ..
Did you check out the links from BLTC? Thinking about you reminded me of those articles, and when I went back and re-read them I really thought you would relate to that perspective and get something out of them. I don't know if you saw this post, but when I put it up I was thinking primarily of you and how it fit your situation:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030208/msgs/140654.html
> Endorphins are directly related to this .. and as far as i know there is nothing on this planet that enhances these except noxious addictive chemicals .. so basically i am screwed ..
Not everyone believes you are screwed; the whole BLTC effort described in the above link is really a multi-layered attack on the exact problems you are describing. Take another look thru their stuff, and click thru a few links from their sites, and possibly this will enable to see things more optimistically.
-fachad
Posted by LAURA777 on February 19, 2003, at 16:16:54
In reply to Re: fachad what do you mean??? » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 19, 2003, at 13:18:28
hey fachad , in my wonderings and workings on the interenet to understand this i have come across the BTLC many times , and have felt it was extremely helpful , especially the links to biopsychiatry.. my quest still continues ..
Fachad i have a real problem with too much NE (no mainia though i can sleep , i have never suffered from insomnia ) or i am sensitive to it to the extreme .. i have told you about the epinephrine and novicaine , and i also have axillary hyperhydrosis .. these glands are directly activated by adrenaline or epi .. it is worse in mornings and my heart also races ,(when i am doing absolutely nothing . but you see i never noticed , (about my heart that is ) because i have known nothing different . i do have alot of energy but there is no mania or dysphoric mania ..
the best way i can describe my physical state is that it seems my body is on a constant low level fight or flight . my sympathetic system is over active , Even though i am sitting here thinking nothing scary or anxious .. it seems my parasympethetic nervous system never kicks in , until i am exhausted by the end of the day .. or by late afternoon ..this not only causes pysical problems it also cause psycological ones as well .. What if i exhausted (little that i had) my endorphin supply ??? Could such a thing exist ?? thanks for you time , laura
Posted by LAURA777 on February 19, 2003, at 16:24:34
In reply to Re: fachad what do you mean??? » LAURA777, posted by fachad on February 19, 2003, at 13:18:28
hey fachad . i am reading and still can't determine if all these drugs are norepinephrine enhancers ?? are they ??
i am very sensitive to any drug that elevates this nuero ..
See my depression is different in that i do not suffer from insomnia or hypersomnia . i do have to crash sometimes late afternoon due the epi rush i expierience every day .. my cognitive skills are sharp and there is no fog , the only thing i can pinpiont is the anhedonia and it is very real ..
so please let me know what you know about the maois and tca's pertaining to norepinephrine .. thanks for you time , lauraPs . it is like i am walking talking stimulant without mania .. prozac helped a great deal with this .. but my sympathetic is still in overdrive ..
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