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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
I have had problems with my mood and behavior my whole life, although I’ve managed to be successful independently. As a child I was the fire starter, early drinker, drug user, violent tempered vandal punk with the BB gun and fireworks. At the same time I also had and have serious anxiety issues if you can believe such a combination. I have a chronically bad mood that is irritable and anxious, although no one ever says anything and people downplay my complaints, in parts because I think it’s punctuated with a mild grandiosity and belief that I can do anything he/she can do. And often I find that I am as or more capable than others but have no ability to sustain it over time. I get bored, and sick and tired of bosses. I drink too much and use too many drugs. I am always anxious even on alcohol and sedatives. I felt relaxed taking 675mg of lithium and 500mg of Depakote with some Klonopin the other night, but then had a terribly unproductive day. I have seen doctors who said I was bipolar and other who said I had a neurological ADHD type disorder.
Today I’m mixed up and unstable (anxious or depressed or flighty or inattentive/dreamy and occasionally I get real enthusiastic mildly euphoric) and everything good that comes from me is generated by sheer will power. I am by definition EXTREMELY intense often very funny yet in terrible pain. Sometimes I’m scared to go outside and other times when drunk I’ll have no hesitation going into death-trap neighborhoods to get drugs (cocaine) which makes me paranoid as hell. I haven’t had any truly off the hook manic episodes where I talk gibberish or spend too much money or irritate the hell out of people, but clearly my mood is terribly unpredictable.
I pray to god for an answer as to what is wrong with me so I can pick a direction and go with it. When I take lithium and Depakote I say to myself “it’s just ADHD and an anxiety disorder with substance abuse.” When I take speed for ADHD I get irritable and depressed. Any reasonable amount of antidepressant makes me want to gnaw off my fingers in total agitation. I can only tolerate 37.5 mg of Effexor before I get agitated and anxious and uncomfortable.
I have yet another appointment coming up with an “expert,” but please let there be some angel out there who will convincingly say “listen buddy…I kind of had that and it sounds like you have this.” And maybe its an undisciplined life, or maybe is bipolar disorder with substance abuse and anxiety… I don’t care anymore. Just somebody please help me.
Posted by jay on July 3, 2002, at 1:17:09
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
Hi Mr. Scott:
I am sooo sorry...I wish I had an easy answer, but offer some hope. Like you, I get irritable on Effexor, and actually most stimulants. How does cocaine work for you? Do you get irritable like on speed or Effexor?
I am finding benzos to be a bit of help. Ask your doctor about upping you clonazepam. I take it Ritalin makes you irritable too, like other amphetamines? It sounds like you may be straying into Bipolar II rather than ADHD, but that would be up to a doctor to decide. How is the Effexor when you are on lithium and depakote? Have you been on them together?
I am sure many will have excellent advice for you on here. Please keep us posted.
Best wishes....
Jay
Posted by JonW on July 3, 2002, at 6:42:09
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
Hi Scott,
I think we can all empathize with the frustration you must be feeling. First, read this in case it gives you any relief:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020525/msgs/108025.html
Well, I'm glad to hear you're working with an "expert" -- quotes or no quotes you fair best working with one! You sound somewhat similar to me, and I know I describe myself as atypical depression + social phobia + bipolar II + adhd. Right now, I'm confused how much is BPII and how much is adhd, but my sense is that I have both and it seems like you may have both as well. I don't think adhd alone could explain the troubles you are having, and nearly all adhd symptoms can be present in BPII. One of those is impatience, and that's a tough one to swallow. You and I both have to believe that we can be solved -- by science and by ourselves. There's every reason to believe this is true but it may take a lot longer than anyone would ever anticipate. Is there a more trite sentiment? Trust your doctor and follow what he says. I wish I could tell you I'm all better but I'm still working on it. The trend is good, though. Better than it's ever been. You said anti-depressants cause you agitation, have you ever been on anti-depressant + anti-psychotic? This has worked well for me -- nardil + risperdal in particular. I also take depakote + neurontin, but the agitation and irritability didn't go away until I added risperdal. Anyway, try to keep your head up... what if this all works out? Imagine how amazing you'll be without all the extra weight!
Hang in there,
Jon
Posted by krazy kat on July 3, 2002, at 9:42:24
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
Mr. Scott:
First off, I am really sorry to hear about your pain, partly because I have been unaware of it in your other posts. Your post is "oh so familiar" to me and you've expressed the actions and feelings so well. I still find it amazing that women and men who have this illness can be so similar. So, yes, imho, you are Bipolar. I personally don't see any indication of ADHD, though you may find that a stim helps When on a mood stabilizer as it has me.
I am diagnosed "manic depressive" - was BPII at first, then changed to BPI because of the psychosis I have during mania. Your grandiose beliefs are probably "enough" to fit you in that category.
> I have had problems with my mood and behavior my whole life,
I'm glad you noted "behavior" here because BP is both a behavior disorder and a thought/perception disorder, not just mood, imo.
> although I’ve managed to be successful independently.
If it is BP, it gets worse with age, as I imagine you've heard, so bravo for seeking help now.
> As a child I was the fire starter, early drinker, drug user, violent tempered vandal punk with the BB gun and fireworks. At the same time I also had and have serious anxiety issues if you can believe such a combination.
That's not odd at all. What age are you indicating by "child"? BP usually starts in teenage years, though it can start earlier.
> I have a chronically bad mood that is irritable and anxious,
As an adult, I have too...
> in parts because I think it’s punctuated with a mild grandiosity and belief that I can do anything he/she can do. And often I find that I am as or more capable than others but have no ability to sustain it over time. I get bored,
Do you get bored, or do you get tired? The increase in your work and this grandiosity sound BP. My guess is you're actually cycling and the mania is evening off...
> I drink too much
Me, too, though it's better now... stabilizer helps.
> I am by definition EXTREMELY intense often very funny yet in terrible pain.Mania? I would say so.
> Sometimes I’m scared to go outside
This can be a component of depression - I have this too.
> Any reasonable amount of antidepressant makes me want to gnaw off my fingers in total agitation.Me too...
> And maybe its an undisciplined life, or maybe is bipolar disorder with substance abuse and anxiety… I don’t care anymore. Just somebody please help me.
Mr. Scott, this sounds so much like me. You are blaming yourself far too much. Go to your appt. Be sure to express how bad this is right now - I always made it seem like it was better than it was.
I think it's BP. I think (you know I'm not a Dr. or medical advisor, just a fellow sufferer) you need to take Lithium or Depakote (I take Depakote) with a stimulant since AD's are bad for you. I take Dep. + Concerta + Neurontin.
I did not do well on the newer stabilizers - you might. If the is some ADHD in there, the stim should help.
Let us know how it goes.
- kk
Posted by deli on July 3, 2002, at 10:44:28
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
> I pray to god for an answer as to what is wrong with me so I can pick a direction and go with it.Mr.Scott
After writing this message I will go light up a candle and pray with you. Hang in there. Must of us have been down the same road and some of us are still painfully cruising it. When I lose my faith in doctors and meds I turn to a divine power and that helps. I then ask for a miracle. The funny thing is then eveything becomes "the miracle". Silly as it may sound this keeps me going.
Keep hoping
Deli;)
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 4, 2002, at 18:56:25
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
Thank You all for trying to help me I love you people who have reached out to an anonymous fuck up on the internet. I've printed out all your responses and I will keep reviewing them.
I know because of whatever else I have I am a drug addict now, and tears have come to my eyes from reading your posts, and possibly also because of the 6 beers I just drank. It's the 4th of July and I cant figure out if I should go cop some drugs or go hang out with one of three groups who have invited me out (still be drinking). No one knows what I deal with or they dismiss it as me being a pussy or weak if I ever do let on, so I play the tough guy). I've recently been offered a 6 figure job, and I wonder if I'm trying to do myself in before I get there with the drugs.
Today I took 75mg effexor 200mg Provigil, 1 mg of Klonopin and 6 beers and we'll see what happens next. On the surface it would seem all I have is a substance abuse disorder, but really without the drugs I suffer so badly (extended withdrawal or moo/anxiety disorder?) and then when I go to take the RX drug that should help say an Effexor, I get more f'ckd up unless I mix it with Benzos which then make me more likely to go off the handle and party with street drugs because benzos literally reduce how much I give a shit about consequences.
I'm not there yet, but I understand and appreciate every single person who takes there own life because of drug/mood struggles. I can't just go into a hospital at this point in my life, I have too many responsibilities. I'm so scared.. I sit here all day and listen to dark music not answering the phone and feeling so helpless. I know I'm not evil but I'm so sad and scared I don't know what to do.
I wish some commanding all knowing entity would grab me by my lapels and shake me and say "listen guy..This is how it is...and give me a clear direction to escape my horror.
I'm sorry for burdoning you as I have before with my nonsense.
Mr.Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 4, 2002, at 18:57:18
In reply to Re: somebody please help me, posted by deli on July 3, 2002, at 10:44:28
Thank You Deli! I feel like crying for making you concerned about me.
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 4, 2002, at 19:02:48
In reply to Re: somebody please help me - long reply » Mr. Scott, posted by krazy kat on July 3, 2002, at 9:42:24
But KK...It doesn't totally fit with the text books wouldn't you agree?
I'm not second guessing you, and I thank you for the detailed response like you wouldn't know!!!!!
I'm just saying if you look in a text book (DSM) I might be missed as a bipolar, and that is my greatest stumbling block.. It is so hard for me to accept.
I'm signing off to go reread you reply to me. And thank you. i am truly a needy person right now, even though my immediate outside world would never in a million years guess i have these problems. (Although last night night I got drunk and scared a few people half to death with my fireworks carelessness at a party). They actually enjoyed it and simply said I've never seen you like this...
Posted by judy1 on July 4, 2002, at 20:05:49
In reply to Re: somebody please help me - long reply, posted by Mr. Scott on July 4, 2002, at 19:02:48
You present as the most typical person with bipolar disorder I think I've ever read. As another poster said, bipolar in young people usually begins with aggressive acts, and 60% of bipolar disordered people have comorbid substance abuse problems. Get thee to a bipolar specialist, who will recommend getting off alcohol and in all probability stopping ADs. I am so sorry you are suffering, but I have very much been where you are now (and dxed bp 1, panic disorder, PTSD and dissociative which all group together). My drug of choice was cocaine, but once I was on the right meds and receiving the right therapy, it wasn't that difficult to stop. You are in my prayers- judy
Posted by wcfrench on July 5, 2002, at 13:55:09
In reply to Re: somebody please help me - long reply » Mr. Scott, posted by judy1 on July 4, 2002, at 20:05:49
Mr. Scott,
What I have is not at all similar to you. I have treatment-resistant depression.. but it's the kind where you wake up and feel like ass every single day. I was going to ask you if you tried Neurontin or another mood stabilizer? (You may have mentioned one but I'm not familiar with all of them). Neurontin definitely seemed to dull the flame in my case, and it's prescribed to Bipolars and it minimizes pain signals to the brain. Generally, it has a calming and a "things are cool" effect that would turn an angry person into a less angry person. Other than that, I can say that maybe an anti-psychotic might help sedate and calm you down. Have you ever tried Geodon, Zyprexa, Seroquel or similar? They were like a Godsend for me. Well, I hope this finds you and brings you a bit of happiness. Lots of people are struggling out there with you, and we'll all get to where we need to be eventually. Good luck.
-Charlie
Posted by Zo on July 5, 2002, at 17:02:35
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
Mr. Scott,Sorry if you've gone over this, but I find the pstims too important to give up, too central, and so take the necessary sleep meds and benzos to cut anxiety. My pdocs approach, makes sense to me. .
Zo
Posted by deli on July 6, 2002, at 1:09:42
In reply to Re: somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 4, 2002, at 18:57:18
> Thank You Deli! I feel like crying for making you concerned about me.
You are quite welcome! I hope you are feeling better. When I was going through my darkest moment about 6 weeks ago, I was convinced that there was no end to my suffering. I knew I was just too crazy for any meds to work, and there was just no hope. Today, I am feeling much better, although not quite where I want to be but, at least the hopelesness is beginning to wane.
I know you will find some answers at your next doctor visit. Be patient with the meds because they take time to work. Klonopin helped me through the rough moments. Talk to your pdoc about controlling your anxiety while the meds start working.
You are in my prayers. Keep us posted.
Deli;)
Posted by EmilyAnn on July 6, 2002, at 19:45:35
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
Hi there. I am so sorry about your troubles. You are NOT alone. From the your post, it sounds to me that you may have a drinking/drug problem. Do you think you do? I feel bad for bringing it up, please do not be offended. But, the disease of alcoholism and addiction is not something to play around with and I'd rather risk offending you than not bring it up if there is a real problem. Your past sounds somewhat like mine. I did not get into alot of trouble...but I was lucky to never get caught. I drank/drugged early on and always had mood problems. I realized a few months ago that I am indeed an alcoholic and addict. I am in a program and have been sober for 5 months. Drinking while taking meds is SO not good. It can make the side effects worse, make you feel drunker, and stop the medication from working properly. I am also Bipolar II. I too am having a lot of trouble with meds (effexor included, too much throws me into mania...not full blown, but the worst kind I get...anxious, racing-thoughts, aggitated, irritable).
So, I'm telling you this to let you know that if indeed you have a problem with drugs and alcohol...you best need to get that under control first. Believe me, I know it is difficult. oh, and benzos, I think are addicting...so if you have a addictive personality like me, aviod them.
Again, I hope I did not offend you. I just want to help. God bless you. If you need to talk/vent, post and people (including me) will respond and try to help.
-Bernadette
Posted by polarbear206 on July 6, 2002, at 19:46:55
In reply to somebody please help me, posted by Mr. Scott on July 3, 2002, at 0:32:51
> I have had problems with my mood and behavior my whole life, although I’ve managed to be successful independently. As a child I was the fire starter, early drinker, drug user, violent tempered vandal punk with the BB gun and fireworks. At the same time I also had and have serious anxiety issues if you can believe such a combination. I have a chronically bad mood that is irritable and anxious, although no one ever says anything and people downplay my complaints, in parts because I think it’s punctuated with a mild grandiosity and belief that I can do anything he/she can do. And often I find that I am as or more capable than others but have no ability to sustain it over time. I get bored, and sick and tired of bosses. I drink too much and use too many drugs. I am always anxious even on alcohol and sedatives. I felt relaxed taking 675mg of lithium and 500mg of Depakote with some Klonopin the other night, but then had a terribly unproductive day. I have seen doctors who said I was bipolar and other who said I had a neurological ADHD type disorder.
>
> Today I’m mixed up and unstable (anxious or depressed or flighty or inattentive/dreamy and occasionally I get real enthusiastic mildly euphoric) and everything good that comes from me is generated by sheer will power. I am by definition EXTREMELY intense often very funny yet in terrible pain. Sometimes I’m scared to go outside and other times when drunk I’ll have no hesitation going into death-trap neighborhoods to get drugs (cocaine) which makes me paranoid as hell. I haven’t had any truly off the hook manic episodes where I talk gibberish or spend too much money or irritate the hell out of people, but clearly my mood is terribly unpredictable.
>
> I pray to god for an answer as to what is wrong with me so I can pick a direction and go with it. When I take lithium and Depakote I say to myself “it’s just ADHD and an anxiety disorder with substance abuse.” When I take speed for ADHD I get irritable and depressed. Any reasonable amount of antidepressant makes me want to gnaw off my fingers in total agitation. I can only tolerate 37.5 mg of Effexor before I get agitated and anxious and uncomfortable.
>
> I have yet another appointment coming up with an “expert,” but please let there be some angel out there who will convincingly say “listen buddy…I kind of had that and it sounds like you have this.” And maybe its an undisciplined life, or maybe is bipolar disorder with substance abuse and anxiety… I don’t care anymore. Just somebody please help me.
Mr. Scott,Hi! Get this book. It will help you answer alot of your questions. "Why Your Depression Isn't Getting Better", by Micheal R. Bartos MD. It covers many of the issues you have described above. There is an epidemic out there of undiagnosed bipolar spectrum disorders. Find a very good psychiatrist that you feel comfortable with. Good Luck!
Posted by EmilyAnn on July 6, 2002, at 20:00:03
In reply to Thank You and follow up, posted by Mr. Scott on July 4, 2002, at 18:56:25
Hey. First, you are not bothering anyone and what you are going through is not nonsense.
It sounds like you really want help. You can do something about your problem...there is help for you.
For substance problems there are programs like Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous that help you to get sober, stay sober, and live sober.It is VERY common that people with substance abuse/dependency also have other illnesses (bipolar, depression, anxiety, etc...) The meds and therapy can help that.
As for not going into the hospital due to repsonsibilities, I totally understand that; however, you have a responsibility to take care of your self...how can you be an effective employee, or husband, or son, or father, or friend (for examples)...if you are not taking care of yourself. Do what you must do to get stable and if that means going into the hospital or detox, my suggestion is GO FOR IT.
You do NOT need to take your life. There ARE other possibilities. You can live a happy, joyous, and free life. I know it may not seem it now..but it will happen. Please know I'm not talking out of my butt here...I've been there, I'm there now...you can do this. Just hang on.
Since you admit you are an addict, make sure your doctor knows so hopefully he won't put you on a benzo.
If you are having trouble stopping drinking and drugging and if you really want to stop....yes, withdraw can be hell. If it is really bad, a detox may help you.
These are just suggestions. I think you should talk to your doctor (psychiatrist) about all this.
You can and will be ok. Hang in there hon.
-Bernadette
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 8, 2002, at 15:54:29
In reply to Mr. Scott, posted by EmilyAnn on July 6, 2002, at 19:45:35
No Offense at all! I do clearly have a drug and alcohol problem. I just spent $800 in three days (4th,5th,6th) on cocaine and alcohol. I would get so paranoid I was convinced for sure that the police were in my house and I'd hide in the bathroom. I had one seizure as well from the excessive cocaine. I fell into the wall and temporarily passed out. I could hear the people below me speculating as to what was going on upstairs, or so I thought anyways. It seems so overwhelming, and my current doctor doesn't see this, because by the time I see him I'm fine and all put together and too embarrassed to let him know...
I'm fucked...I can see no way out of this that isn't going to be very painful or embarrassing and potentially risky What I have in mind is weight gain from meds which I know makes no sense since I'm I'm already at deaths door..
I don't know what to say except thanks. I'll print all this out and bring to the doctor.
Posted by Mr. Scott on July 8, 2002, at 16:01:06
In reply to Re: Mr. Scott » EmilyAnn, posted by Mr. Scott on July 8, 2002, at 15:54:29
Sorry.. Now I see your other response.
Thanks for your support...I know what I have to do if I want to get better.
Mr.Scott
Posted by wcfrench on July 8, 2002, at 22:19:30
In reply to Re: Mr. Scott, posted by Mr. Scott on July 8, 2002, at 16:01:06
Mr. Scott
Don't spend so much money on those meds... get the right ones from the doc. You could buy some video games or something else to keep you entertained! Just a thought.
-Charlie
Posted by ben21 on July 8, 2002, at 22:38:50
In reply to Re: Mr. Scott, posted by Mr. Scott on July 8, 2002, at 16:01:06
well first off im new to this board. i happened across your post and trust me i can completely relate. it took three years for me to get well, learn, and adjust- but i managed. to be honest ive done quite well and led a "normal life" once we found out which treatments worked best for me. i would suggest that you seek out your resources and follow through. i read books, used the net, and talked with some of everyone and the biggest help was the manic depression and depression association. i had to readjust my life in terms of alcohol and drugs and i still suffer with the alcohol end. im gonna try a support group this month. i managed to sustain for the last 2 years with holistic therapy as opposed to meds, but when i was first diagnosed i was heavily medicated and experienced everything that you mentioned. i suffered from the paranoia, recklessness, withdrawal, suicidal thought etc. trust me things got alot better. its been some some years since ive been in that condition. i lost my parents health insurance and because of irresponsibility i didnt find a social agency- thats why i went off of meds. but the combination of diet, exercise, relaxation, and controling/avoiding triggering environments actually worked well for me. when i was "out of control" lithium was effective and i forget the other drug that i was taking. and that was after alot of experimentation with RX combinations. i recently found an agency and they started me on lamictal which so far seems to be working great. i was checking this board for other peoples responses to this RX and everthing seems positive. im not sure if it may work for you, but ask your MD if he would recommend it. So hang in there and seek out all the resources that you can find. its kinda hard to get the ball rolling sometimes, but once you pool your resources you should be able to get well. i was given a workbook early on when i was diagnosed which sorta step by step taught me how to adjust to this new dilema that i have. it worked well because i systematically found the help and treatment options, and learned about what i was going through. the name of it is LIVING WITHOUT DEPRESSION AND MD by MARY COPELAND. it might prove useful to you because it helps you record your thoughts, get informed, and monitor you moods and really helps in learning what triggers your mood. then you can really adjust to work around some of the factors that make it worse. well im typing way too much but i hope you get well and hang in there. ill try to stay in touch.
Posted by EmilyAnn on July 8, 2002, at 23:16:15
In reply to Re: Mr. Scott » EmilyAnn, posted by Mr. Scott on July 8, 2002, at 15:54:29
> I'm fucked...I can see no way out of this that isn't going to be very painful or embarrassing and potentially risky***There is strength in humility. There is nothing wrong with asking for help. Humility and humiliation are two different words. You will find that if you can humble yourself and admit to yourself that you have a problem and seek help, you will get better and get stronger.
You do NOT need to be embarrassed (although I understand, I've been there hon).
Alcoholism is a disease (most doctors, if not all, agree) that is progressive, chronic, and fatal (if not attended to). An alcoholic need not be embarassed any more than a diabetic. Get it? I understand that it is a bit different, but it is much the same.
We have a problem, a disease...it CAN be treated. If you are having withdraw, go to De-tox. Recovery is difficult, I'm not going to lie to you...but my sponsor and my friends in the program have promised me that it (AA) will and does work...but you have to work for it...do the foot work and GOD WILL provide the rest, HE will help you. I'm saying this for my benefit as much as for you.
There are other programs besides AA and NA...I'm just telling you what I know and what's been told to me.
And truly the only risky part is NOT GETTING HELP. This can and will kill you, or you may end up in jail, or killing someone else during a drunk. I'm not trying to scare you hon...but this is NO joke. I've seen and heard much...There has been people who go back out to drinking and drugging and killed themself or kill someone else by drinking under the influence.
This WILL be painful...but it's the kind of pain that leads to healing. The kind of pain you are in now only leads to more pain. Please trust me on this. I understand and I've been there.
I'm not lecturing you...just sharing with you my experience and what others have taught me.
If you want, you can email me anytime and we can "talk" more.
God bless you. God, whomever He is for you, loves you.
-Bernadette
This is the end of the thread.
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