![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 16:28:28
It happened as soon as I got in my car to drive home from the airport last night. It's like I had to be strong until then and then that was it. I felt before I started crying that if I started I would never stop. I've descended into a deep blackness of despair, hopelessness, and constant thoughts about dying. Sure, I'm disappointed in my trip and the results, but this is far more than that. This is like I'm not on meds or like my meds totally stopped working.
I never typed an update since getting home because I haven't even been able to touch my computer until now. I just sit and cry and think of how I have about 5000mg of Parnate (just filled 2 mos.) sitting in my kitchen. They make the new meds so you can't kill yourself. You can kill yourself wiith Parnate. Don't worry-- I would never do it. I made a pact with myself long ago that I would never commit suicide. But, it's just how deep I've gone that I'm thinking so much about it. I just have this total hopelessness and despair.
I have plenty of reasons to be upset, but not this upset. The list really is a last-ditch effort at meds. So many of the meds I thought might work I found out are not options for one reason or another. The doc said that my disorder is really bad for my age (and I'm smart enough to know that bipolar is progressive, so what does that mean for the rest of my life), the options we have will not work by March 26 when I go back to work, so the potential that I will lose my job and insurance, etc. is very high. I also just happened to go through 2 days of travel hell where I didn't really eat, wasn't on schedule with meds (although I did always end up taking them eventually), and endured a supreme amount of stress. Plus, now I get to worry about paying for it all when I wish I just wouldn't have gone. So I have stuff to be upset about, but how I feel is out of proportion with that.
I shouldn't whine so much because I know alot of you live with this blackness every day. I don't know how you do it, and I really respect you for it. I sit around and complain about lack of motivation and pleasure etc. and forget how it feels to be truly hopeless and in so much despair. I don't know how you live outside of hospital. I really feel like if this goes on much longer I'll have to go back in the day program. Sorry if I sound dramatic-- I'm not trying to be. I just don't know how to deal with feeling like this alone. I hope it gets better. I hope I didn't permanently mess something up.
I'm still going to try to post the med list on the med board. I'm going to try to start doing normal things (like posting here) if I can in hopes that getting back into some type of a routine if possible might help this. Here's hoping!
Posted by janejane on January 20, 2010, at 17:27:57
In reply to Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 16:28:28
(((Peanut)))
I can't write very much right now, but I wanted to send you a hug right away. Hang in there.
-Jane
Posted by janejane on January 20, 2010, at 20:43:07
In reply to Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 16:28:28
Peanut, I'm so sorry. I think you were incredibly brave to go all the way to Stanford by yourself. It would have been hard for anyone, even without all the obstacles that constantly got in your way. You've gone through an incredibly stressful and frustrating past few days so it's no wonder you're feeling the way you are.
Thank you for saying you won't harm yourself, because we'd all be very worried, otherwise. I wish I knew what to say to you to make you feel better, but I really don't. All I can really do is offer comfort and hugs. (((Peanut)))
When do you see your p-doc again?
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 22:34:50
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness » inanimate peanut, posted by janejane on January 20, 2010, at 20:43:07
Thanks janejane. I see my pdoc Feb. 15 although I'm trying to get ahold of her now so we can at least start something that might make me feel better. The Stanford doc banned the Wellbutrin, so I'm no longer on that unfortunately.
Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2010, at 0:13:54
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 22:34:50
Peanut!!!! So happy found you both Floating Bridge and I just posted a link on meds board that we are worried about you as you said you'd post on meds. So did the take you off the parnate also. I don't know your age, state, whatever, if you live with parents, just that you work. Right now it not the time (I know you need insurance and money) but can you get an extended leave and borrow some money? You just seriously can't place a time frame on getting well. Answer one of the links on meds and let the experts help. I'm so relieved that you are here. I must write floating Bridge and let her also know I found you. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on January 21, 2010, at 0:41:43
In reply to Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 16:28:28
peanut, the blackness will not last. You are ragged, stressed(!) dissapointed, shocked by the potential implications of your prognosis. Get your doc to see you ASAP. Post your med list and all you can recall to the med board or babblemail trusted people. Seek out long-term BP folks. You are smart. You are resourceful and a creative thinker. You might be reeling from a blow right now, but I know you will rally and deal with your situation. Don't decide yet that Stanford was a mistake. If they are correct in their assessment, it's best to know what you are dealing with. It will make your recovery and maintenance efforts more effective. Many, many live good, good lives worth living w/ BP.
And don't ever worry about scaring us or complaining or being dramatic. We can take the heat. We'll hang in there with you.
Write when you're up to it.
Super hugs,
fb
Posted by evenintherain on January 21, 2010, at 10:46:29
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness » inanimate peanut, posted by floatingbridge on January 21, 2010, at 0:41:43
yes, if you're up to it i would be interested to hear more about how you're doing, what happened at stanford, and what your current medication plans are, etc.
dealing with all this stuff can be so taxing sometimes. hope you feel better soon.
Posted by janejane on January 21, 2010, at 11:21:54
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness » inanimate peanut, posted by floatingbridge on January 21, 2010, at 0:41:43
Wow, fb. What an inspiring post. You said all kinds of things I wish I had.
So how is our favorite legume doing today? Any news on getting an earlier appointment?
I agree with Phillipa that you might want to look into getting a possible extension. This time pressure you're under is something you totally don't need right now. Is there something your p-doc could do to help get you a longer medical leave? (Obviously, it'd be great if you didn't need to use it, but it'd be good to have the option since it'd take away a huge stressor that is no doubt interfering with your recovery.)
Hugs and positive vibes being sent your way...
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 13:28:24
In reply to Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 16:28:28
Thanks everyone. It means so much to me that you are all there and that you care. I don't think I could get through this time without you! I woke up crying again-- I am just so sick of crying! I've had a few moments where I've felt a bit better, though, so I'm hoping that's a good sign. I'm still on all the same meds (except they banned me from the Wellbutrin, but it hadn't had time to help anyway), and it would be an awful coincidence if my meds just stopped working at this same time. No, I think I just had too much stress on both my body and my mind combined with the hopelessness I feel after seeing the doctor. It's like before I had that hope of "Stanford will have ideas" and now I no longer have that hope but I also no longer have the hope of some of the meds I've researched and no longer have anything to do with my time since it's really pointless for me to keep researching and trying to learn about more meds. I mean, this doc is an expert, so he knows more about the meds than I could ever learn. Also, just to think about how young I am and how this is only going to get worse for the rest of my life is overwhelming.
As for work, getting leave wouldn't actually be a problem I don't think. It's that it will be unpaid starting March 26 and I don't have any way to live without the money. I don't think I can get any loans since I have no collateral (no house or anything) and I already have quite a bit of debt already. Plus, what if I never get any better and could never go back to my job? I've studied SSDI/SSI pretty in-depth and know that I wouldn't likely qualify and if I did it would take tons of appeals and last years. I don't have any where/any way to live during all of that. I'm single and my family doesn't have any money or resources or really even a way to let me live with them. I just don't know what to do. My only thought is that I can't live like this forever. It will eventually get bad enough that I will have to kill myself. People say it's selfish to commit suicide, but how selfish is it to ask someone to stay alive in so much pain? How can you ask someone to spend the next 60 years just getting worse and worse? Why won't people just give me the permission to die.
As for the med board, I just haven't been able to face it. There's nothing anyone's going to be able to say that will make me feel any better and I'm worried I'll just feel worse. I will try to post it again today, but I couldn't do it yesterday. I haven't even looked at the med board since I was in Stanford. I just can't. It's just a reminder of the options that I don't have. But maybe if I get a good moment today, I will try.
Thanks again for your supportive words. They really do help more than you know. Sorry I'm such a downer. As I said, I've had a couple of better moments, so hopefully I'll start having more of those. I just feel so hopeless right now.
Posted by floatingbridge on January 21, 2010, at 14:05:26
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 13:28:24
peanut, you've got to get a friend there with you--someone who will let you cry, talk, be silent. Some times are too tough to go it alone. Do you have someone, friend or family?
Please let us know, if and when you are ready, the protocol Stanford recommended. Did they sense how desperate you are presently feeling? Can you call Stanford for follow-up support? I can't imagine the docs would drop a bomb and not have some follow up procedure in place.
peanut, many here are holding you in heart or mind or in whatever way they would call it--.
Please write again,
fb
Posted by Willful on January 21, 2010, at 16:31:48
In reply to Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 20, 2010, at 16:28:28
Hi, Peanut.
I'm sorry to hear that the appointment at Stanford was so disappointing and that you're so discouraged now. I do think a big part of your reaction is just physical and emotional exhaustion, and the post-excitement let-down. So you do have reason to believe that it will moderate as you recover physically.
Do you wonder, though, if you might have been in a bit of a hypomanic phase before Stanford, out of which you've fallen into a deep depression, at least temporarily? You sound so overwhelmed about how black the future is-- as deeply despairing about your prospects, as you were agitated before about experimenting with meds. Remember how you said that you were obsessed and couldn't hold back from trying various combinations that were not recommended?
Please try to see your pdoc before February 15. That's much too far in the future. At least you can talk to her about how terrible you feel, and see if there's any temporary addition she can give you to help you be a bit calmer and more stable.
Also, if you've dropped the wellbutrin, and gone down on the parnate, you could be experiencing a dramatic re-regulation of your neurotransmitters. They're generally in a certain overall balance-- that's stable (even if it doesn't make you stable)-- over time. When you change meds, either going up, or going down-- especially when large amounts of meds are involved as with the parnate-- they become very dis-regulated. It takes time to reestablish an equilibrium. I particularly remember that when I had to stop parnate, I had a really terrible reaction-- and my pdoc explained that the equilibrium is destabilized by changes like that and needs time before it reaccommodates to the new med regimen. He gave me something temporarily to take the edge off this.
Very importantly, don't take any doctor's evaluation of your future prospects as meaning much. The Stanford Dr. saw you when you were at your worst-- exhausted, stressed out, without a regular schedule of meds, etc, etc. He was in no position to estimate how "bad" your disorder is-- and really, no doctor can tell you that. Anything they say is purely speculative-- and as reliable as any teacher telling you that someday you will or won't be good at any discipline. Teachers make awful mistakes about these things all the time-- and students they thought had no talent turn out to be very successful and even important in the field.
You really have to disregard what he said about your future. No one's future can be foreseen-- because no doctor knows what meds will become available, or what reserves of determination, intelligence, and ability to grow you have. Try to remember that you can largely determine your fate-- and that no one else can deprive you of the possibilities that you yourself can hope and work for.
Meanwhile, have you ever considered dbt (dialectical behavior therapy)? I've found it amazingly helpful-- it trains you to deal with some of the most distressing moments and negative patterns that get in your way. It was originally used with borderline personality disorder, but now it's really considered a good treatment for anyone who experiences anxiety or depression.
For the moment, though, try to rest, relax as much as you can, and try to reject the most hopeless thoughts-- things will get better. You'll get back to where you were-- and maybe with some therapy, or some new meds that may come out-- or just new experiences that you can't imagine now-- you'll find yourself in a much better place.
Willful
Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2010, at 19:09:49
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness, posted by Willful on January 21, 2010, at 16:31:48
Willful excellent advise a great post. Peanut I'm on disability per mental issues and got it firt time round as the pdoc knew what to put on the paperwork. So it's not that hard as when I got it I was doing fine. No idea what the doc wrote just know they know what to write. And so true you say your're young how wonderful and look at all the new testing? A few years ago no rTMS, no deep brain stimulation. Just a few examples. Love Phillipa
Posted by janejane on January 21, 2010, at 20:55:16
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness, posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 13:28:24
Thanks for the update, Peanut. I saw a little glimmer of hope in your last message, which was reassuring.
I think Willful made a lot of good points about what may be going on chemically right now, as well as how much stock you should put in the consult. No one can meet with you for a couple hours and determine your future. That's really up to you. Maybe Stanford didn't have the answers, but you can find them. You're exceptionally smart, determined, and a tough cookie. You have demonstrated that many times over. It may take some time and some help, but if anyone can figure this out, you can. You are in no way, shape, or form a lost cause.
I'm very relieved to hear it won't be a problem for you to get an extended leave if you need to. I know money would be an issue, but at least you won't automatically lose your job. I'm assuming you have credit cards to use if need be. They're not a great thing to rely on, but this is a situation where it would definitely be warranted. Your health needs to come first. Try not to think about it too much until it becomes an issue. You still have a couple months.
Please post when you can, and don't worry about being a downer. We're here because we know what you're going through and want to help. It means a lot to me to feel connected to you and everyone else here, even if it isn't under the best of circumstances. I think it's therapeutic for all of us.
By the way, did you adopt your foster kitty? Are you still volunteering? I would think being around animals would be very therapeutic right now. Getting out the house a little bit might help too. Could you arrange to have coffee with one of the other members in your support group?
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 22:03:57
In reply to peanut » inanimate peanut, posted by floatingbridge on January 21, 2010, at 14:05:26
Thanks so much for your support. I have my family a couple close friends via phone. I talked to a friend from NAMI last night in person which helped, and I think we're getting together again Saturday. I don't really have a strong social support network here. I had mainly relied on my boyfriend and have been too depressed since we broke up to really make other friends. I will be home with my family for my birthday next weekend, but hopefully I will be feeling better by then. I don't really have any way to follow up with Stanford. It was just a one-time consult. I don't think the doc understood that I took the whole thing so hard. I'm probably just overreacting with all of the stress I've been though, etc. It's just had more of an impact on me.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 22:15:54
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness, posted by Willful on January 21, 2010, at 16:31:48
I think you're right about the exhaustion and the post-excitement let down. I know I wasn't hypomanic before going, though-- I was just clinging so hard to any thread of hope I could get close to in order to try to fight the depression and now I don't have those strands to cling to anymore. Don't get me wrong-- they gave me a list, but I don't like the list and for some reason don't feel like it offers me any hope and certainly not anything to obsess about.
I've got a call in to my doc but she's not back in the office until tomorrow. I hope she'll call me back and I'm on the cancellation list for an earlier appt. (although I don't expect to get one-- the cancellation list is a mile long). Maybe I'll feel better if she'll start me on something, though, without seeing me.
Yeah, I've been very mean to my body over the past few weeks with having the parnate so high, dropping it so fast, and now having the stress of all of the flying craziness. Plus I wasn't able to eat during travel and didn't want to eat yesterday so I tried eating today so maybe that will help.
As for my future, I just look where I was even 3 years ago compared to now and just can't imagine where I'll be in 3 years or heaven forbid in 30. I'll tell you one thing, though. I've learned valuable lessons that I didn't know when I was younger. If I find a combo that works, I'm NOT touching it. I don't care about the reason, I will leave it alone.
I wish I could do DBT. My insurance won't cover group therapy. I tried to find a therapist to do it one-on-one but that didn't work well. I've read alot about it and try to exercise the principles, but I think it's something that you need a group to really model and learn to do. Now I can't even afford individual therapy since my insurance put my copay up to $40. I really only have support groups now, but those do help so I'm thankful for them.
Anyway, today was a little better than yesterday which was a little better than the day before, so hopefully I will keep getting a little better. Thanks so much for your support.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 22:17:42
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness, posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2010, at 19:09:49
Thanks again for being supportive as always!
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 22:28:00
In reply to Peanut better cookie, posted by janejane on January 21, 2010, at 20:55:16
Your title made me almost smile for a second :-). Thanks for your encouraging words. Yes, I think I get glimmers of feeling better every once in a while, so I hope as things get more stable those will increase. I did adopt my foster kitty, and she's been really good for me. She does goofy things and she comes and sits on my lap to be petted. I got out of the house today because I had to go teach water aerobics. It was an hour where I had to act normal and I think I did ok. Now I've almost gotten through another day, which is good considering that I woke up and started crying precisely because I did not think I could make it through today. Now I'm already worried about making it through tomorrow, of course. I just worry what I will do with my time since I used to spend it researching and learning about the brain and neurotransmitters and meds and how they work and now that all seems pointless. I guess I can still look at natural stuff-- after all, even Stanford experts are not geniuses at the natural side of things. He didn't even mention NAC for instance that that's in Bipolar Disorder magazine as working for bipolar depression. Your dx is depression, right, not bipolar?
Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2010, at 23:15:14
In reply to Re: Peanut in blackness » Phillipa, posted by inanimate peanut on January 21, 2010, at 22:17:42
Peanut you actually went and taught a class today? Do you realize how seriously awesome that is and shows a huge amount of strength. I used to teach Dance Aerobics and teaching I had to kind of play act at being really up and happy and when I'd leave it was catching and would feel that way myself. Your amazing this come back is so quick may seem slow to you but it incredibly quick. You say you got a list from the docs at Stanford of meds I'm guessing. Why not post them and then putting heads together see what might work. So there is a lot of hope it just wasn't what you wanted. Reminds me of me as I want something and if I don't get that it smacks me down. I think your're doing extremly well. Sometimes others can see by your words what you don't see. I'm glad you got a kitty. What's the kitty's name? Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.