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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 8:06:11
Okay..a little reading below. I am still struggling to figure out this whole 'dating' thing. What I really don't understand is that, in 'real life', I would be able to, once in awhile, ask a woman out, or give her my number in a bar (and she'd call back.) But, this internet dating thing is just a MASSIVE failure for me! Is it because in 'real' life, women overlook me looking like a dork, and can see I have a personality and a bit of a brain? Gaawwdd...I don't know. So, I did some 'research'. Pls read and let me know what you think. To a degree, I agree with some of these things, but I am getting very sick of this 'women don't like "nice" men' thing. Also, this guy (the writer) seems to be hung up on his little focus of what is "attractive". Non cest moi! Read on...
--------------------------------The Ten Most Dangerous Mistakes YOU Probably Make With Women — And What To Do About It...
Here Are The Top Ten Reasons Why Men Fail With Women—And How To Make Sure YOU Avoid Every One Of These Deadly Common Mistakes...
- By David DeAngelo, Author Of “Double Your Dating”
MISTAKE #1: Being
Too Much Of A “Nice Guy”Have you ever noticed that the really attractive women never seem to be attracted "nice" guys?
Of course you have.
Just like me, I'm sure you've had attractive female friends that always seemed to date "jerks"... but for some reason they were never romantically interested in YOU.
What's going on here?
It's actually very simple...
Women don't base their choices of men on how "nice" a guy is. They choose the men they do because they feel a powerful GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION for them.
And guess what?
Being nice doesn't make a woman FEEL that powerful ATTRACTION.
And being NICE doesn't make a woman CHOOSE you.
I realize that this doesn't make a lot of logical sense, and it's hard to ACCEPT... but GET OVER IT.
Until you accept this FACT and begin to act on it, you'll NEVER have the success with women that you want.
MISTAKE #2: Trying To
“Convince Her To Like You"What do most guys do when they meet a woman that they REALLY like... but she's just notinterested?
Right! They try to "convince" the woman to feel differently.
Well, I have news for you... YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE HOW A WOMAN "FEELS" WHEN IT COMES TO ATTRACTION!
Never, ever, EVER.
You cannot CONVINCE a woman to feel differently about you with "logic and reasoning".
Think about it.
If a woman doesn't "feel it" for you, how in the world do you expect to change that FEELING by being "reasonable" with her?
But we all do it.
When a woman just isn't interested, we beg, plead, chase, and do our best to change her mind.
Bad idea. One that will never work.
MISTAKE #3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or PermissionIn our desire to please women (which we mistakenly think will make them like us), us guys are always doing things to get a woman's "approval" or "permission".
Another HORRIBLE idea.
Women are NEVER attracted to the types of men who kiss up to them... EVER.
Don't get me wrong here.
You don't have to treat women BADLY for them to like you.
But if you think that treating a woman well means "always getting her approval and permission for things", think again.
You will never succeed by looking for approval. Women actually get ANNOYED at men who seek their approval.
Doubt me? Just ask any attractive woman if Wussy guys who chase her around and want her approval annoy her...
MISTAKE #4: Trying To “Buy” Her Affection
With Food And GiftsHow many times have you taken a woman out to a nice dinner, bought her gifts and flowers, and had her REJECT you for someone who didn't treat her even HALF as well as you did?
If you're like me, then you've had it happen a LOT.
Well guess what?
It's only NATURAL when this happens...
That's right, I said NATURAL.
When you do these things, you send a clear message:
"I don't think you'll like me for who I am, so I'm going to try to buy your attention and affection."
Your good intentions usually come across to women as over-compensation for insecurity, and weak attempts at manipulation. That's right, I said that women see this as MANIPULATION.
MISTAKE #5: Sharing
“How You Feel” Too Early In
The Relationship With HerAnother huge and unfortunate mistake that most men make with women is sharing how they "feel" too early on.
Attractive women are rare.
And they get a LOT of attention from men.
Most men don't realize this, but attractive women are being approached in one way or another ALL THE TIME.
An attractive woman is often approached several times a DAY by men who are interested. This translate into dozens of times per week, and often HUNDREDS of times per month.
And guess what?
Attractive women have usually dated a LOT of men.
That's right. They have EXPERIENCE.
They know what to expect.
And one thing that turns an attractive women off and sends her running away faster than just about anything is a guy who starts saying "You know, I really, REALLY like you" after one or two dates.
This signals to the woman that you're just like all the other guys who fall for her too fast... and can't control themselves.
Don't do it. Lean back. Relax.
There's a much better way...
MISTAKE #6: Not “Getting” How
Attraction Works For WomenWomen are VERY different from men when it comes to ATTRACTION.
You need to accept this fact, and deal with it.
When a man sees a beautiful, young, sexy woman, he INSTANTLY feels a sexual attraction.
But does the same apply for women?
Do women feel sexual attraction to men based mostly on looks? Or is something else going on?
Well, after studying this topic for over five full years now, I can tell you that women usually have their "attraction mechanisms" triggered by things OTHER than looks.
Have you ever noticed that you see a lot more average and unattractive men with beautiful women than the other way around?
Think about it.
Women are more attracted to certain qualities in men... and they're attracted to the way a man makes them FEEL than they are to looks alone.
If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.
But it's not an accident. You have to LEARN how to do this.
And ANY guy can learn how...
MISTAKE #7: Thinking That It
Takes Money And LooksOne of the most common mistakes that guys make is giving up before they've even gotten started... because they think that attractive women are only interested in men who have looks and money... or guys who are a certain height... or guys who are a certain age.
And sure, there are some women who are only interested in these things.
But MOST women are far more interested in a man's personality than his wallet or his looks.
There are personality traits that attract women like a magnet...
And if you learn what they are and how to use them, YOU can be one of these guys.
YOU DO NOT have to "settle" for a woman just because you aren't rich, tall, or handsome.
Let me say this again: If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.
MISTAKE #8: Giving Away
All Of Your Power To WomenEarlier I mentioned that it's a mistake to look to a woman for approval or permission.
Well, another similar tactic that a lot of guys use is GIVING AWAY THEIR POWER to women.
Said differently, guys try to get women to like them by doing whatever the woman wants.
Another bad idea...
Women are NEVER attracted to men that they can walk all over... Women aren't attracted to Wussies!
MISTAKE #9: Not Knowing
EXACTLY What To Do In Each
Type Of Situation With WomenNow I'm going to blow your mind...
A woman ALWAYS knows what you're thinking.
Women are approximately TEN TIMES better than men at reading body language. That's ten TIMES.
I know, it might be hard to believe. But for example, if you're out on a date with a woman, and you want to kiss her, she knows it.
And if you don't know exactly what to do and exactly HOW to kiss her, and you just sit there looking at her and getting nervous, she won't help!
And this goes for ALL aspects of women and dating...
Approaching a woman, getting her number, asking her out, kissing her, getting physical... everything.
If you don't know what to do in each situation, you will probably screw it up... and LOSE EVERYTHING.
And you KNOW it.
It is VITALLY important that you know EXACTLY how to go from one step to the next with a woman... from the first meeting, all the way to the bedroom.
MISTAKE #10: Not Getting HELP
This is the biggest mistake of all.
This is the mistake that keeps most men from EVER having the kind of success with women that they truly want.
I know, guys don't like to make themselves look weak or helpless. We don't like to ask for help.
Hey, I've been there myself.
Let me tell you a little about me and how I figured out how to be successful with women...
About five years ago I became fed up with the fact that I didn't know how to approach, meet, and get dates with women that I was attracted to.
It frustrated the hell out of me.
One night I was out with a friend, and I saw a woman I wanted to ask out, but I just couldn't get up the nerve to do it. I can still remember that night... right on the spot I made the decision to do whatever it took to learn how to be successful with women and dating.
Well, after a lot of hard work and trying all kinds of crazy things, I finally figured it all out.
I can now approach just about any woman and get her number almost instantly. I've dated models, I've dated actresses, and I've dated nice, normal, regular girls as well.
It has been a very rewarding experience. I no longer feel that sick, insecure feeling... like I don't know how to meet women... and I might wind up alone.
I know that anytime, anywhere, I can go out and meet attractive women.
I've written a book on the topic, and I've done seminars on both coasts of the United States... and taught tens of thousands of men all around the world.
--------------------
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2007, at 10:37:33
In reply to Gals...really need your help please!!, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 8:06:11
Jay treat a woman with respect and if it's meant to be it will be. Being friends first in my opinion is more important and looks to me don't mean that much it's the way I'm treated. Kindly and with respect. Love Phillipa
Posted by Kath on August 14, 2007, at 13:42:49
In reply to Gals...really need your help please!!, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 8:06:11
Sorry Jay,
I just skimmed the article. I think the guy's a first class jerk & his main purpose is to appeal to guys' insecurity so they'll view him as Mr. Hotstuff Gets Whoever He Wants - purpose? So guys will buy his books, attend his seminars, etc. & basically he'll make money.
I don't think I have the energy to go through each point with an answer.
I'll say it again. I really think that if you pursue what you're interested in, in life, meet like-minded folks, get to know them, hopefully be able to make friends with some, meet their friends, etc.....it'll broaden your base of people you know.
I say, be yourself. It's YOU that you want the woman to like, right? I'm sure it's pretty un-nerving - the whole dating thing. That's why I think that sliding from friendship into a relationship is way more comfortable & natural.
OK so maybe it doesn't have the same kind of 'sparks' happening at first.I think here are some thoughts:
Be sincere
Be interested in her
Ask about things she's interested in
KNOW that you're a special person (because you are) & don't worry about if she's going to like you or not. I do think that self-assurance probably attracts others while insecurity doesn't.
I'd say don't do the extravagance thing as to spending too much money; trying too much to impress as to clothes, etc.
Be as casual & relaxed as you can.
KNOW that with any particular woman, it might work & it might not. Try to view the date, or meeting etc as YOUR chance to see if you like HER enough to continue!!!!!! Not that you're on trial, but that you're taking your time deciding if SHE is good enough to deserve you spending your time getting to know her better!!! (Not in an egotistic way; just in a calm way.)
If you want any more of my VERY opinionated opinions, just ask me!
Hope I haven't come on too strongly or insulted you Jay. That's the last thing I'd want to do.
Warm smiles & hugs, Kath
Posted by Gabbi-2 on August 14, 2007, at 16:01:41
In reply to Gals...really need your help please!!, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 8:06:11
Jay I agree with Kath about the article, and about the trying to impress I think the latter is really important. Women are also I think very attracted to that genuine subtle confidence, more so than looks.
Also someone mentioned this to you before, and I have to agree, (trying to be helpful) As to referring to women as "gals" I don't know any woman who likes it, and I know a few to whom it's an instant turnoff.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 18:18:50
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!! » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2007, at 10:37:33
> Jay treat a woman with respect and if it's meant to be it will be. Being friends first in my opinion is more important and looks to me don't mean that much it's the way I'm treated. Kindly and with respect. Love Phillipa
Well thank you Phillipa. Geezz..you are always so 'right on' with your advice. :-) Maybe I trivialize it all too much. It's just this 'internet thingie' that I have problems with. Maybe I should get OUT there in real life, and do it the 'old fashioned' way, eh?..heh.Thanks..
Jay :)
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 19:06:35
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!! » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Kath on August 14, 2007, at 13:42:49
Well...thank you Kath...and boy, I seem to always get so lucky and so many compliments when I whine and complain..:-) Kind-of like I said in my other post, my problem seems to stem from 'on line' dating (as opposed to first meeting in 'real life'..etc.). Contrary to what I post(Mr. Drama King, here..heh) , I have had a few very good romantic relationships. It's just when the anxiety and depression really reared their head (and they had good reason to do so...as I lost the two most important people in my life to me) and anx. and dep. decided to take up permanent space in my excuse-for-a-brain, I never really 'rebounded back'. It's been 10 years this summer (lots of very teary nights..and whimpering to sleep..but, what else am I to expect?).
BUT...maybe I've got to come out from under-the-covers. heh. I am going away to a cottage down in Grand Bend, on Lake Huron on Friday, so I will have a nice week of beautiful beaches, sun, and fresh clean water. Funny too..because it was there, at 'The Pinery' Provincial Park, that I "first fell in love" (well, more like puppy-love) at age 14...about <gulp!>..23 years ago..lol. Her name was Jennifer, she was from Michigan, and she had the pretty blonde hair that 14 year old boys get all wound up about. Even though I was fairly shallow like most kids my age, I didn't really have much care in the world. I played 80's big-hair love rock ballads on my 'ghetto blaster' (REO Speedwagon , Night Ranger, anyone?..lol)
So, for your visual pleasure, check out this sunset, and some of the neat little towns and communities on Lake Huron. http://www.sunsets.com/communities.php Maybe I can recapture a tiny bit of that '14 year old' spirit again. The boy inside the man? hmmm..
Thanks..:-)
Jay
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 19:27:19
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!!, posted by Gabbi-2 on August 14, 2007, at 16:01:41
> Jay I agree with Kath about the article, and about the trying to impress I think the latter is really important. Women are also I think very attracted to that genuine subtle confidence, more so than looks.
> Also someone mentioned this to you before, and I have to agree, (trying to be helpful) As to referring to women as "gals" I don't know any woman who likes it, and I know a few to whom it's an instant turnoff.
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Hahaa. 'Tis not to worry Gabbi. This is the only place in the world I have ever used the term 'gals'. (And nobody here 'knows' me..so..:) I understand the confidence thing and all, but you know there are some people who have WAY too much of it, right?..hahaa. I *used* to be the guy who tried to impress..and of course got burnt for it. I was (and still am...but getting better) very, very self-conscious, and I think I cared a bit too much about trying to impress. I blew a LOT of money (that I didn't have) and spent a lot of time bothering with women who I should have known better not to. In fact I even think I lowered my standards, especially in terms of intelligence, interpersonal qualities, etc.But, right now, I've failed miserably at this internet-dating stuff, and wonder if it is merely become a replacement for bar-hopping. They now have this 'speed dating' crap, where you are supposed to meet, like, 20 people in one night to "increase your chances"..I guess. But, you got to wonder what people are looking for in spending 4.2 minutes with a stranger? That is just as superficial as anything. Oh well...
Thanks for your thoughts..:)
Jay
Posted by Gabbi-2 on August 14, 2007, at 19:43:51
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!! » Gabbi-2, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 19:27:19
> > Jay I agree with Kath about the article, and But, you got to wonder what people are looking for in spending 4.2 minutes with a stranger?
Yeah, do you ever. I've heard of speed dating but didn't know it was 4.2 minutes. I spend longer choosing a magazine.
Or maybe it's you know.. the obvious : 0
It has to be.
I think?
Posted by seldomseen on August 15, 2007, at 16:08:08
In reply to Gals...really need your help please!!, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 8:06:11
ALright, as a chic I may be in the minority here, but I think there is a lot of truth to what that guy has to say.
Looks have never been important to me at all, neither has money, nor status, nor any of the other trappings that some men tend to think that women like.
For me, the guy is right on when he says that it is how the woman FEELS when she is with a guy that is important.
I've dated men that - even though we had absolutely nothing in common - for some reason, I was just happy around them.
So, for your sake, I asked myself what about these men made me feel so good - what was the common thread?
And I came up with several things - some suitable for the post-modern feminist, others not.
1. They were relaxed and confident. They were all "good in their own skin". They just sort of had the air like "I don't have to prove anything to anybody. Here I am - deal with it"
2. They were consistent in their mood and it was usually a good one.
3. They understood that I could be totally irrational, didn't try to fix me and didn't hold it against me.
4. They knew when to ask my opinion on something vs when to take control.
5. I was not their whole life, but there was room in their life for me.
6. They let me take care of them.
7. They could each offer me a new experience - whether it be operating a piece of heavy machinery, picking blackberries, or showing me how to operate a recording studio etc...
These are just my thoughts on the subject, overall though my best advice would be to never underestimate a woman's intuition.
I think most of us truly can sense fear, cruelty and know when we are being patronized or courted for OUR looks alone and react to it.
Posted by Kath on August 15, 2007, at 20:51:36
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!! » Kath, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 14, 2007, at 19:06:35
> Well...thank you Kath...and boy, I seem to always get so lucky and so many compliments when I whine and complain..:-) Kind-of like I said in my other post, my problem seems to stem from 'on line' dating (as opposed to first meeting in 'real life'..etc.). Contrary to what I post(Mr. Drama King, here..heh) , I have had a few very good romantic relationships. It's just when the anxiety and depression really reared their head (and they had good reason to do so...as I lost the two most important people in my life to me) and anx. and dep. decided to take up permanent space in my excuse-for-a-brain, I never really 'rebounded back'. It's been 10 years this summer (lots of very teary nights..and whimpering to sleep..but, what else am I to expect?).
>>>>>>>>>With what you've been through, I really admire that you're forging ahead. Esp with anx & dep.
Yeah - I think real-life is the way to go as opposed to online, mind you my 31 year old daughter (who has environmental illness & is VERY limited as to exposure in the 'outside world' wondered how in he** she was ever going to meet someone. She & her now 'almost fiance' (there's a ring which has been glimpsed but not yet put on the finger!) met on an online dating site!!
I know some folks who met their mates online. But if it's not working - why bother. Sounds more stressful than not. & ALSO - now you've had that neat Chapters experience, real-life might be looking more promising!!!>>>>>
> BUT...maybe I've got to come out from under-the-covers. heh. I am going away to a cottage down in Grand Bend, on Lake Huron on Friday, so I will have a nice week of beautiful beaches, sun, and fresh clean water.>>>>>>>>>We'll be so close!!!!!! Hubby, son & I are going to be at The Pinery!!! Your memories of your youth at the Pinery are touching. Those times, I think, are pretty special & will never be repeated in the same way.>>>>>>>
Funny too..because it was there, at 'The Pinery' Provincial Park, that I "first fell in love" (well, more like puppy-love) at age 14...about <gulp!>..23 years ago..lol. Her name was Jennifer, she was from Michigan, and she had the pretty blonde hair that 14 year old boys get all wound up about. Even though I was fairly shallow like most kids my age, I didn't really have much care in the world. I played 80's big-hair love rock ballads on my 'ghetto blaster' (REO Speedwagon , Night Ranger, anyone?..lol)
>
> So, for your visual pleasure, check out this sunset, and some of the neat little towns and communities on Lake Huron. http://www.sunsets.com/communities.php Maybe I can recapture a tiny bit of that '14 year old' spirit again. The boy inside the man? hmmm..
>
> Thanks..:-)
>
> Jay>>>>>>>>pretty sunsets!!! I hope we experience quite a few of them next week! I love the sunsets over the water at the Pinery. Last year while we were there, my husband had a terrible gall bladder attack & spent 4 days in Exeter hospital! Not a nice memory! I'm a little edgy as to how my son will do. He won't have the computer to make music on as he did at the cottage. Also a couple of years ago he & his GF (who left him) were there together. I'm afraid it's going to drege up sadness! On the other hand, we've gone there for YEARS & he has many happy memories there. I am somewhat nervous though. I get so "bent out of shape" if he's feeling crappy!!!! Try not to, but it's hard.
Anyway, I hope you have a great time!!!
:-))))))) Kath
Posted by confuzyq on August 15, 2007, at 21:31:14
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!! » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Gabbi-2 on August 14, 2007, at 19:43:51
> > > Jay I agree with Kath about the article, and But, you got to wonder what people are looking for in spending 4.2 minutes with a stranger?
>
> Yeah, do you ever. I've heard of speed dating but didn't know it was 4.2 minutes. I spend longer choosing a magazine.
>
> Or maybe it's you know.. the obvious : 0
> It has to be.
> I think?
>
Never done it but one benefit that occurs to me is practically zero time to get *too* nervous, stick foot in mouth too far, expect to be too enthralling, etc. One could probably get through the whole 4 minutes ok with just shared giggling over how impossible it is to work with.And having to subsequently just go with your gut about who seemed <insert what you like here, e.g. warm, comfy, humorous, spirited, twinkly eyes, intriguing somehow, etc.> might not be a bad thing at all really; and not necessarily based on just looks and immediate attraction. Too much time to ponder and procrastinate can be the death of many things that would've worked out just fine in reality anyway. Of course one may want to be especially sure to keep the first date short and sweet (and in a populous area ;) by design, just in case.
So, I think it sounds like it has its definite "upright" possibilities. Altho, I don't know if maybe it does tend to attract too many ppl who are hoping for "relationships" that last about as long as the 4 minute first meeting did. ;-) Oh wait I know -- stereotypists (is that a real word?) would say that is often determined by gender. Well, I'll say in advance that even that wouldn't be insurmountable if one has good instincts about that kind of thing. No method is perfect, that's for sure!
Posted by Gabbi-2 on August 15, 2007, at 22:43:54
In reply to Re: Gals...really need your help please!! » Gabbi-2, posted by confuzyq on August 15, 2007, at 21:31:14
Hey, you're good.
Those never occured to me.
The "no time to get too nervous part" actually makes it seem appealing.
This is the end of the thread.
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