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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 11:07:30
Don't really know what to write in this post, or even why I'm writing...
Problem: This all came to a head last night when I was out shopping with my parents to pick some stuff up for my brother and nephew.
Maybe some of you have seen my threads on my sis-in-law who's leaving my brother for no apparent reason and it has caused horrible pain in my family. Well, she left Friday and while I thought things would get better because now life is stable and not so wild with her weird moods and insults, it's gotten worse.
Mom wants to write a note to SIL saying she's sorry things have ended so badly, that she hopes SIL finds what she's looking for, and that maybe on the other side of all this, we could all be friends again. Keep in mind my mother is feeling extremely angry and hateful toward SIL now for all the pain SIL has caused my brother. So why reach out in friendship?
This bugged me to no end! My mother has a history of taking way too much emotional pain from people. I've inherited that history, and I think my brother has, too. For some reason, emotional pain and disrespect are acceptable in my family.
My sis-in-law has been *extremely* mean recently and is hurting my brother left and right, emotionally and financially and jeopardizing the well-being of their two-year-old. So I asked my mother, if someone were standing over *D* (my brother) and kicking him repeatedly in the face, and he was bleeding out all over the floor, would you write a letter to *that* person, saying you hoped she would find what she's looking for and someday we might all be friends again?
Why is emotional abuse more acceptable and tolerable in my family than physical abuse?
So, lightbulb! Something about how my family interrelates is feeding my brother's marital problems. We think we're all being helpful and supportive, but some of what we do is making the situation worse. Mom thinks she's taking the high road and reaching out in a compassionate way to SIL, but in reality, she's *overfunctioning* and probably going to make the situation worse.
IF ANYONE HERE DISAGREES AND KNOWS OF SOMETHING BETTER, PLEASE TELL ME. I'm so open to ideas on how to *not cause damage.* Maybe (probably) we can't help brother's and SIL's marriage, but we somehow have to not make it worse.....
One of the reasons I think my whole family is reacting so badly to this separation is that it's crystallizing for us what we do wrong all the time and nobody wants to face the truth.For example, I'm outrageously *angry* at my parents for my brother's misery and failed marriage, particularly angry at my mother. And I'm not sure what to do with that anger. I feel guilty for my anger. They've always said I hold grudges and here's a grudge so big it's impossible to get around. So instead, I channel it into being mad at my SIL, trying to figure her out and *solve* the problem, trying to help brother and SIL, and that's getting nowhere.
So I picked up a book on anger that my therapist gave me a couple of years ago. Didn't relate to any of it then, but it was amazing to me now. "The Dance of Anger"
In the book the author describes people who overfunction and people who underfunction, and says all people do both at one point or another. But chronic examples of either can cause serious damage and serious *anger.* And if my sis-in-law is anything, she is *angry.*
So I looked closer and saw that my mother is a classic overfunctioner, a control freak, a rescuer, a problem solver, a fixer. She does does does and her overbearing nature causes others around her to *underfunction* or do nothing. Which is classic. And it feeds on itself. The more someone underfunctions the more an overfunctioner feels like he must pick up the slack.
Well, my family is extraordinarily hurt by all of this and my mother is running around rationalizing my brother's own overfunctioning behavior saying that if SIL doesn't do what she *needs* to then *someone* (brother) has to do it. There is no alternative. So she's rationalizing this dysfunctional lopsided behavior. And when one person extremely overfunctions, s/he gets angry that the other person does nothing, even though the overfunctioning behavior is contributing to that. And the underfunctioning person gets really mad because s/he can never do anything right in the overfunctioner's eyes, so the overfunctioner must do it. And that kills self-esteem on the underfunctioner's side, which just leads to more underfunctioning, and it's an ugly circle!
So brother has taken over my mother's role, overfunctioning, and SIL is left underfunctioning, and feeling both horrible about herself and extremely angry at brother.
So I know there is nothing my family can do to take back the 34 years our family culture has contributed to brother's overfunctioning, but is there a way for me to help stop my mother's feeding his overfunctioning? She's unconciously egging on the behavior that got him in trouble with his wife in the first place. She continues to try and step in, with the best of intentions I have no doubt, to try and fix what is broken. But this will only make it worse.Can I or should I say something to my mother? Aren't I exhibiting overfunctioning behavior by trying to *fix* my mother and get rid of her detrimental influence on my brother?
I've suggested my mom see a therapist to help her deal with all the emotions she's experiencing from this break up because she's seeking solace and action through my brother, and he doesn't deserve that. But she won't.
I refuse to let my family (including myself) hurt my brother more by entrenching ourselves in our own bad behavior. Do you think sharing this theory (as objectively as possible) with my family might do any good? Or should I just stay the he** out of it?
Susan
Posted by fallsfall on November 18, 2003, at 12:26:38
In reply to Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG, posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 11:07:30
That is a great book. And it sounds like your interpretation of how it fits your family is really good. I gave a copy of that book to my mother a couple of years ago - but I'm sure she didn't even open it. At this point, for her, change is worse than living with the pain.
Maybe you can get your *brother* to read it. It might help him.
Best of luck
Posted by femlite on November 18, 2003, at 12:30:57
In reply to Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG, posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 11:07:30
> I refuse to let my family (including myself) hurt my brother more by entrenching ourselves in our own bad behavior. Do you think sharing this theory (as objectively as possible) with my family might do any good? Or should I just stay the he** out of it?
>
> SusanHi Susan
I am certainly no expert on family relationships but here are some things Ive found helpful.We have to be willing to let people make their own mistakes. I know that sounds overly simple, but it is really deeply true and necessary. Let them. The fact is you cant prevent it and might only interfere with their need to learn their own life lessons and cause yourself greater anguish.
Im not saying we should never offer advice or comfort, but it is usually best to wait till asked, when someone gives us permission to speak into their life, our advice has a better chance of being heard. (I rant on occasion myself at people I love but try as I get older to make it the exception)
I believe in God and so asking for spiritual help is invaluable to me. Having said that, truth can be found in many places, and I have greatly bennifited from the Dali Lama's advice on happiness.
Everyone wants to be happy.
That is what we all are striving for. Some believe they will find happiness buy creating co-dependency. You and i may know that they wont. But at this moment in their lives they cant hear that. They have to realize it for themselves.
But if we look at the actions of each individual with that idea in mind, (they are just doing what they believe will make them happy), our eyes will look with compassion, and our heart will be less grieved.
I hope you find peace for your heart. Give yourself the gift of backing up emotionally, and watching it from a distance, with lots of deep breaths.
best regards
Posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 12:39:38
In reply to Re: Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG » Susan J, posted by fallsfall on November 18, 2003, at 12:26:38
Thanks! I am photocopying the chapter on over and underfunctioning and I'm going to give it to both my mom and my brother. Maybe it *will* help brother a bit. If anyone is strong enough to sit back and do nothing (and it does take strength), he's got it. Mother? Not so sure....
And me? I'll try really hard, too.
Thanks again,
Susan
Posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 12:42:07
In reply to Re: Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG, posted by femlite on November 18, 2003, at 12:30:57
Hi,
Thanks!
>>We have to be willing to let people make their own mistakes. I know that sounds overly simple, but it is really deeply true and necessary. Let them. The fact is you cant prevent it and might only interfere with their need to learn their own life lessons and cause yourself greater anguish.
<<You're totally right. I think, over the past several years, I've come to see that's true. I've even tried it, but it never worked for me. This book points out that it can take a lot longer than you think is OK (like months before a spouse starts doing his share of the housework), and that even though we want the other person to change his/her behavior, we are somehow afraid of the change and can actually sabotage it. So, I'll try harder, longer, this time.
Thanks again,
Susan
Posted by TexasChic on November 19, 2003, at 18:57:40
In reply to Re: Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG » femlite, posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 12:42:07
It sounds alot like the whole co-dependency theory. I've found it's extremely difficult to stop "helping" the person you are actually enabling. But once you finally let go and see their life can go on with out your "help" (no matter how much they try to manipulate you into thinking otherwise), its such a relief!! You realize you can lead your life without the burden of someone elses welfare on your shoulders. I hope you can succeed in removing yourself from your families problems, because they are theirs, not yours.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2003, at 7:41:45
In reply to Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG, posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 11:07:30
> Don't really know what to write in this post, or even why I'm writing...
Oh, I think it's obvious why you're writing....
> Mom wants to write a note to SIL saying she's sorry things have ended so badly, that she hopes SIL finds what she's looking for, and that maybe on the other side of all this, we could all be friends again. Keep in mind my mother is feeling extremely angry and hateful toward SIL now for all the pain SIL has caused my brother. So why reach out in friendship?
It's the right thing to do. The question is both one of timing and magnitude. It's not black and white.
Saying "Lets get through this together" is a good thing. But being extemely angry and hateful while paying lip service to a magnanimous concept is not the same thing as feeling that way. Quite the contrary. It's a subconscious subterfuge, to get in to the thick of things, and "revise" the situation according to her preconceptions.
She ought to back off, not dive in. At least for now.
> So, lightbulb! Something about how my family interrelates is feeding my brother's marital problems. We think we're all being helpful and supportive, but some of what we do is making the situation worse. Mom thinks she's taking the high road and reaching out in a compassionate way to SIL, but in reality, she's *overfunctioning* and probably going to make the situation worse.
Frankly, I think you're overly enmeshed. Nobody has any boundaries. Or at least, nobody respects each other's boundaries.
Just as an example....you want to put your personal stamp on things. You want everyone to know how angry you are. That's not going to help anybody.
> IF ANYONE HERE DISAGREES AND KNOWS OF SOMETHING BETTER, PLEASE TELL ME. I'm so open to ideas on how to *not cause damage.* Maybe (probably) we can't help brother's and SIL's marriage, but we somehow have to not make it worse.....You *know* I can't resist an open offer like that, don't you? Eh?
> For example, I'm outrageously *angry* at my parents for my brother's misery and failed marriage, particularly angry at my mother.
It has nothing to do with your parents.
> And I'm not sure what to do with that anger. I feel guilty for my anger.
And you want to assuage your guilt by doing what, exactly?
> They've always said I hold grudges and here's a grudge so big it's impossible to get around.
Oh. Could you have been more black and white?
A grudge is tangible evidence that you expect people to behave in a particular way. It is so easy for people to fail to meet your expectations. But that's not *their* problem.
> So I know there is nothing my family can do to take back the 34 years our family culture has contributed to brother's overfunctioning, but is there a way for me to help stop my mother's feeding his overfunctioning?
No.
> Can I or should I say something to my mother?
No. At least, not while you're angry like this.
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the people I cannot change
The courage to change the people I can
And the wisdom to know that one is me> Aren't I exhibiting overfunctioning behavior by trying to *fix* my mother and get rid of her detrimental influence on my brother?
Yes. You don't fix people. You help them find their own way.
> Do you think sharing this theory (as objectively as possible) with my family might do any good?
Do you think you *can* do it objectively?
> Or should I just stay the he** out of it?
For now.
> SusanHere's a big hug.... {{{{{Susan}}}}}
Lar
Posted by Susan J on November 21, 2003, at 9:27:03
In reply to Family Anger, Dysfunction, Can You Stop It? LONG, posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 11:07:30
Guys,
Thanks. Actually I've taken no action whatsoever, haven't shared anger or ways to cope or anything with my family. I'll keep trying to figure out most likely, what I should *not* do, before I do anything. :-)
I'm just sitting here not liking them much (parents), sad for brother, and still very angry at SIL, who dropped their son off with my brother on *her* night to have the kid, so she could rush home to see The Bachelor on TV.
And I just need to stop caring...
Susan
This is the end of the thread.
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