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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 17:49:28
I wish I knew how to give my son the deep down knowledge that he doesn't have to be good or do wonderful things to be loved and cared for.
I don't have that knowledge, and I don't know if my husband does either, but I think it is the most wonderful gift you can give a child. That even if I saw down deep into the darkest recesses of his soul, where all his "bad" thoughts hide, that I would still love him.
I think I'm making the same mistake with him that my mother made with me and my husband's mother made with him. They thought we were wonderful and were always happy to tell us so. They told us we were wonderful so often that we felt like we *had* to be wonderful. That if we didn't live up to their expectations that we were horrible. Not because they said so, but just because they thought so highly of us and how could we let them down? And it worked too. We were the most straight laced and well behaved kids and teens you ever could see. Totally responsible college students. Never gave our parents a bit of trouble. (Well, not counting the years when I was deeply depressed and horribly phobic. But my mother promptly "forgot" about those the minute they were over. Maybe even before they were over.)
So we both grew up with OCD traits and being terrified of making a mistake.
If there is one mistake that my mom made and that I'm repeating, that is it. I think my son is wonderful and I tell him so often. It doesn't sound so horrible, but I want him to also know that I love him for being him. I try to remember to tell him that from time to time, but I don't know. He worries about being good all the same.
Did anyone's mom really make them feel like they didn't have to be good to be loved? And if so, how?
Posted by IsoM on August 27, 2002, at 19:13:49
In reply to Being good = Being cared for, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 17:49:28
Haven't talked with you for a while, Dinah, but here's my take on it.
My Mom made me feel good (on the whole - she had rough times, though, when my father was unfaithful & also when she went through menopause) but she never made me feel like I behaved perfectly either. She loved me just 'cause she did. Mind you, she also thought I was the most talented, brilliant, beautiful (you add the superlatives) daughter in the world, but it didn't give me a swelled head.
I guess I managed to do the same for my sons just naturally as she did for me. But when I think back to how I raised them, when they made mistakes, when they lied to me, when they fought & bickered with each other, when one took change from a dish to buy candy, etc, I didn't make them feel like I was disappointed in them. I'd tell them I didn't appreciate their *behaviour* & I'd like to see them not fight, or to tell me the truth even if it exposed something they did wrong, but my love for them didn't depend on how "good" they behaved.
It pleased me & I was happy when they were good, but I didn't love them less when they did wrong. I'd relate to them stories of me when I was little & the 'naughty' things I had done. I say naughty as most were childish things. My Mom never could understand why my little metal lunch box was alwasy so beat up compared to my brothers. I only told her after I'd grown, that I use to sit on it & ride it like a sled down the icy hills home from school - lunch box & me getting all bumped & bruised. Those sort of stories connected with my sons when they were little & they'd shyly, yet mischievously, tell me little pranks they had done too.
Now your little guy is still quite young & hasn't begun to have much of a chance to get into bits of mischief, & he has no siblings to argue with. But when he does do something you don't expect or something he's not happy with, give him a big hug & tell him with a laugh that you love him lots - warts & all. When he asks about the warts, explain that those little 'less-than-perfects' makes him all the more adorable (tell him whatever would suit you best - maybe like a little Scamp in 'Lady & the Tramp' stories - whatever you share). Make light of it so he doesn't take it all too seriously, but do let him know that he's doing what every normal child does - make little mistakes as they grow up & learn.
It really does help a person understand & empathize with people better if they make mistakes themselves in the process of maturing. Looking back on those small incidents in their life will give them a quiet framework of confidence & trust of their inner sense, whether they make mistakes or not. It'll teach them not to judge themselves harshly, or of others too.
Posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:33:09
In reply to Being good = Being cared for, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 17:49:28
Posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:35:51
In reply to Being cared for = sexy doc to pamper me (nm), posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:33:09
Posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 19:35:56
In reply to Re: Being naughty = Still being cared for » Dinah, posted by IsoM on August 27, 2002, at 19:13:49
Thanks IsoM,
That's really good advice. Your sons are lucky.
Looking back, you're right. My mom was "disappointed" in me on those occasions I didn't live up to her expectations. Either that or she just refused to see them. She was good at that. :)
I need to really watch myself to make sure I'm not doing that too. I'll try to be aware of that. And your idea of making funny stories out of it is a good one too. I think I've told my son a few of the bad things I did when I was young, but I'll try to bring them out in context. And I'll try to make them seem not so bad.
I think he might see me still overreacting to my own errors and berating myself. One time I asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up and he answered "I want to be just like you. Only smart." lol. But he might also be learning by how I treat myself that it's a disaster to make mistakes.
Boy, parenting is hard. So many balls to juggle at once.
Posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:44:10
In reply to Bearing exotic fruit and smiles (nm), posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:35:51
Posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:48:14
In reply to Marinate ..GULP.......flick those seeds (nm), posted by ctrlaltndel on August 27, 2002, at 19:44:10
Posted by Susan G on August 27, 2002, at 23:25:26
In reply to Being good = Being cared for, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2002, at 17:49:28
I really agree with IsoM's comments about focusing on the behavior and not the person. I also like to use "natural consequences" since that is often how life works and it takes some of the potentially negative emotion out of the situation.
At the core of it all is unconditional love. Everyone needs to hear how wonderful they are and it means the most when it comes from parents or significant others. Part of that love is a level of trust and honesty. I appreciated the fact that my parents could give me honest feedback about how I might be able to improve, etc., but only after heaping on the praise for the good things. Building self esteem requires feeling competent and masterful even if you are only a young child. Parents who allow their kids to try and to fail without harsh criticism are helping them develop healthy self images. And it has to be real, not hollow praise.
I'll bet you are a most wonderful mother, Dinah, and your son is a lucky boy.
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2002, at 6:48:14
In reply to Re: Being good = Being cared for, posted by Susan G on August 27, 2002, at 23:25:26
> I really agree with IsoM's comments about focusing on the behavior and not the person. I also like to use "natural consequences" since that is often how life works and it takes some of the potentially negative emotion out of the situation.
>
That is definitely my main method of discipline, although I must admit to a natural love of lecture. (As you've probably deduced, Susan.) :)> At the core of it all is unconditional love. Everyone needs to hear how wonderful they are and it means the most when it comes from parents or significant others. Part of that love is a level of trust and honesty. I appreciated the fact that my parents could give me honest feedback about how I might be able to improve, etc., but only after heaping on the praise for the good things. Building self esteem requires feeling competent and masterful even if you are only a young child. Parents who allow their kids to try and to fail without harsh criticism are helping them develop healthy self images. And it has to be real, not hollow praise.
>
That's one of the main tenets of Montessori, which I love. I try to do that, although I don't always succeed. Not that I give harsh criticism but it's hard to watch your kids hurting, and I might try to protect him a bit too much.
> I'll bet you are a most wonderful mother, Dinah, and your son is a lucky boy.Not wonderful by any means. I do try very very hard. I've memorized all the books. But he also learns from watching me when I'm not "parenting" and I'm not sure what I teach him then is what I want him to learn. Hmmm. A new reason to be nicer to yourself. It's good for your kids. Maybe I'll buy that one. Probably not. :(
Ah well, hopefully I'll be "good enough". But I would just love to give him the gift of inner security and the resilience that brings. And for some reason probably having to do more with me than him, I equate that with understanding that you are more than what you do. If that makes any sense...
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2002, at 6:49:07
In reply to Re: Being good = Being cared for, posted by Dinah on August 28, 2002, at 6:48:14
I seem to be having a real problem remembering to check that box.
Posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 16:15:22
In reply to Re: Being good = Being cared for, posted by Susan G on August 27, 2002, at 23:25:26
Dinah - how old is your child?
I have some thoughts/comments.
I'm 55 & have a 26 year old daughter & an 18 year old son. Sometimes I feel like I've done a shitty job of being a parent because my kids have done a lot of drinking & drugs (daugter is clean & sober for 4 years so she's safely through it). My son is still doing drugs, not working - quit school after Grade 10.
BUT, when I look at who they are inside as people, they're pretty wonderful people.
I think it's really important to separate behaviour from the individual. I cringe in stores or parks when I hear people say to children, "GOOD GIRL!" or "GOOD BOY!" It must make the child believe that he/she can be good or bad, when actually, it's their BEHAVIOUR that can be good or bad.
My son & I will often tell each other we love each other. During the past 3 years (it feels like 5!) "raising" him has been a tremendous challenge. Another way of saying it, I suppose is "It's been the pits". :-(((((
But I still love him big-time. Even though his actions (or inactions) have resulted in him not living in our home at various times, I always tell him I love him big-time no matter WHAT he does.
I don't know how old your child is, but even if they're little, they'd understand, "I love you soooo much. Even when you do stuff that I DON'T like!!!!!!! Everybody makes mistakes sometimes & everybody does stuff that's not really too good sometimes, but I'll always love you no matter WHAT."
Isn't being a parent hard?! Jeez!!!!!!!!!!
Warm thoughts, Kath
Posted by IsoM on August 29, 2002, at 18:47:46
In reply to Re: Being good = Being cared for-Dinah, posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 16:15:22
You've done something very right, Kath, if your son can say he loves you. We're not the only influences on our children & outside influences can lead them astray easily. But it's when we give them a solid base to build on, that of love & acceptance, that even if they do wrong & make bad choices, they'll usually come back to their senses. They really do need guidance, no matter how much they may say they don't. But if they look back as older adults, they'll be glad you were always there for them.
Posted by Dinah on August 30, 2002, at 8:57:43
In reply to Re: Being good = Being cared for-Dinah, posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 16:15:22
> Dinah - how old is your child?
He's six. Started kindergarten this year. :)
>
> I have some thoughts/comments.
>
> I'm 55 & have a 26 year old daughter & an 18 year old son. Sometimes I feel like I've done a shitty job of being a parent because my kids have done a lot of drinking & drugs (daugter is clean & sober for 4 years so she's safely through it). My son is still doing drugs, not working - quit school after Grade 10.
>
> BUT, when I look at who they are inside as people, they're pretty wonderful people.
>
That's a terrific attitude. And congratulations to your daughter! That's hard work.> I think it's really important to separate behaviour from the individual. I cringe in stores or parks when I hear people say to children, "GOOD GIRL!" or "GOOD BOY!" It must make the child believe that he/she can be good or bad, when actually, it's their BEHAVIOUR that can be good or bad.
>
Hmm. I try with that, but don't always succeed. I do tell him it's his behavior, and I even try the montessori method of saying, instead of I'm so proud of you, wow what a nice drawing, you must be proud of working so hard on it. See, I don't even do it particularly well as an example. :) So I at least try to do both. But I do often tell him what a terrific little boy I think he is. (And of course it's true.)> My son & I will often tell each other we love each other. During the past 3 years (it feels like 5!) "raising" him has been a tremendous challenge. Another way of saying it, I suppose is "It's been the pits". :-(((((
>
I can imagine. But it's terrific that you can it hasn't alienated the two of you and you can still express caring for each other.
> But I still love him big-time. Even though his actions (or inactions) have resulted in him not living in our home at various times, I always tell him I love him big-time no matter WHAT he does.
>
Yes, I try to tell my son that. And he says he understands, but....> I don't know how old your child is, but even if they're little, they'd understand, "I love you soooo much. Even when you do stuff that I DON'T like!!!!!!! Everybody makes mistakes sometimes & everybody does stuff that's not really too good sometimes, but I'll always love you no matter WHAT."
>
Trouble is my son doesn't give me too many chances to tell him that. He's a little worrywart and tries to be very good all the time. But I do try to get the message across when he does give me the opportunity. And every once in a while, I'll ask him why I love him and we go through all the wonderful things he does and I tell him yes, I'm proud of him for that but that's not why I love him. Then we end up with I love him because he's him. It's something of a game at this point but I hope it sinks in.
> Isn't being a parent hard?! Jeez!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Warm thoughts, KathBoy isn't it though. And it doesn't come naturally to me. It seems that every thing you do has both positive and negative overtones, so you're bound to screw up somehow.
It sounds like you have a good relationship with your kids. That probably helped your daughter when she was turning her life around. And it will be a help to your son should he decide to do so too.
Posted by Kath on September 1, 2002, at 14:14:36
In reply to being a good parent... » Kath, posted by IsoM on August 29, 2002, at 18:47:46
Thanks, it's always supportive to be told stuff like this! It helps balance out the sometimes-negative 'self-talk'!
hugs, Kath
> You've done something very right, Kath, if your son can say he loves you. We're not the only influences on our children & outside influences can lead them astray easily. But it's when we give them a solid base to build on, that of love & acceptance, that even if they do wrong & make bad choices, they'll usually come back to their senses. They really do need guidance, no matter how much they may say they don't. But if they look back as older adults, they'll be glad you were always there for them.
Posted by Kath on September 1, 2002, at 14:23:38
In reply to Re: Being good = Being cared for-Dinah » Kath, posted by Dinah on August 30, 2002, at 8:57:43
Six - what a lovely age!
I like the Montessori-talk! Hadn't heard that before, but it sounds VERY good. I think it's great that you tell him he's terrific!
I think we'd be surprised at how much of what we say to kids stays with them. I still remember my Dad telling me that no matter what kind of trouble I might get in, he'd always be there for me! BOY, did that make an impression! Wish he were alive so I could tell him!
Thanks for the kind words...I am VERY grateful that I have such a great relationship with both my kids.
You know, when Elissa was little, I was VERY serious about not "messing her up". I think that very sensitive people can really take a burden upon themselves. We should probably just relax; enjoy our kids like heck; have fun with them, etc & not WORRY so much!
You sound like a great parent.
Hugs, Kath
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