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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by antigua3 on October 10, 2008, at 10:11:15
Dinah, I was fascinated about your comment on being a "good enough mother" based on who you picked to be the father of your children.
I never thought of my mother in that way, but maybe I should. In my own life, I know I picked the right guy, even though like your DH at times he can be controlling under stress, which is difficult for us all to take.
But my mother? She would say she didn't "pick" my father; it's something that happened. She was pregnant at 19 and according to her had sex against her will and got pregnant the second time it happened. So she accepts no responsibility for her role in this. Very passive aggressive.
She went on to have six children in nine years. I'd ask her about birth control, but that would put her on the defensive.
Was she a good enough mother? When she was available, she certainly was or I wouldn't be the mother I am today. We definitely had that bonding, but I was pushed from the nest before the next one was born--she sent my brother and I to stay w/her parents and my grandfather molested me. Interesting how we can remember things from so young an age, but I know it's true; it's one of my most distinctive memories.
She also wasn't a "good enough mother," when she asked my father to take over the care of the middle children (my brother & I) because she was so involved with the babies. (My younger brother was extremely ill and in the hospital all the time; caring for him wore her out). That is when the abuse began with my father.
So she was a "good enough mother" when she was available, but she wasn't present very much even when she was in the house w/us. Later, when I was a teenager, and after my parents divorced, she made the decision to send me to live w/him permanently. Another faulted decision.
So, in many ways she was good enough, but she made some horrendous decisions about her children; all of us have had tremendous difficulties, and I wouldn't call us a normal family at all.My mother made the decisions she did, rightly or wrongly, based on her own fragile state of mind. She was wrong about a lot of things and has taken her share of hits from my siblings. I don't feel the need to do that to her; she has suffered enough.
Did she pick my father? No, I wouldn't say so; she succumbed or acquiesed to him when she shouldn't have, but she was young and had no support.
So, any other mother stories out there? And Dinah, if I've misinterpreted what you said, pls forgive me. It just gave me an angle I hadn't considered.
antigua
Posted by sassyfrancesca on October 10, 2008, at 10:22:50
In reply to Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others, posted by antigua3 on October 10, 2008, at 10:11:15
My "mother" story......she was emotionally and physically abusive....we had a verrry difficult life (which is all in my memoir/so it all worked out fine for me, LOL!)
Grew up in a 120-year old tenement house; cockroaches, rats (they didn't visit us too often/fear of my mother).
She had to work (I was the only kid without a father that I knew).....snow came in thru a crack in the wall; no phone, refrigerator or bathroom (toilet in the attic--always fun at night), molested by a drunken neighbor, and had my hand held over an open fire by another neighbor.
My mother had all she could do just to survive (no child support or programs)......I was her stress relief.
I decided i would never be like her, and I accomplished that. I think I was the best mother anyone could ever have had.
In being the kind of parent I wanted....I in turn, parented/nurtured and loved.....myself
My (sordid,LOL) was published: www.psychiatricjournal.com, entitled: The Transcendent Child on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse
(my own site: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com)
Love, Sassy
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2008, at 11:04:28
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others, posted by sassyfrancesca on October 10, 2008, at 10:22:50
Mine was sick my whole life blamed me for making her sick I raised myself one sister six years later. I'm sure she did the best she could died when I was l7 of addison's disease and blood clot. Me I married at 18 first baby age19 as my father and grandmother didn't want me. Had three kids swore only positive reenforecement for them. Divorced after 21 years and many marriges since then. I haven't made good choices. But what is is. Now I fear my body giving out on me. My kids grown and gone and totally independant I taught them to be. Now they don't even contact me. I guess I did my job on earth. Love Phillipa
Posted by Wittgensteinz on October 10, 2008, at 13:08:21
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others, posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2008, at 11:04:28
Thank you for sharing. I find these 'memoirs' inspiring. Sassy, I like the way your have used you own motherhood as a form of healing, and that you have made up for the failings of your own mother. I wonder whether I could be a good mother given my background with a physically and emotionally abusive mother. I'm repulsed by anger and violence (I'm working on being able to express anger) - but would I be able to bring up a balanced, healthy child? Would I make a 'good-enough mother'? I would very much like to have children at some point but this question haunts me. I have a genetic eye condition so there is a 50% chance any children I have will inherit this - this also plays on my conscience - can a 'good enough mother' knowingly produce children that might well have a health condition that will require a lot of operations and treatment?
I am a perfectionist - I think in part owing to my upbringing. If I failed at something, I would be beaten - I recall at age 4 being too scared to swim the length of the swimming pool without arm-bands. I had swimming lessens and it was a swimming test. We had the choice to swim with or without the arm-bands. I chose to swim with the arm bands and when I got home, my mother, who had been watching, was so angry she beat me and told me I was nothing but a baby. She gripped me around my middle and shook me so hard that her finger nails left scars.
This notion of being 'good enough' is something my T has brought up a couple of times. That good enough is good enough :) - that I need to learn to be good enough instead of striving for the impossible perfection I feel is necessary. This concept of the good enough mother was also discussed then. I joked whether it also applied to therapists - and asked him if it was OK for therapists to be 'good enough' too!
Posted by antigua3 on October 10, 2008, at 13:44:31
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others, posted by Wittgensteinz on October 10, 2008, at 13:08:21
Yes, you can be a "good enough" mother with your background. That's the things about kids; they help you define a whole new "good enough." My son jokes with me that I'm supposed to have all the answers and I tell him no way, I'm not perfect, don't want to be, and he won't be either. We all just try to be the best we can be, with help in my case.
I, too, cannot express angry appropriately because of all the violence in my childhood. This doesn't mean I let my kids off easy, though; they don't get the yelling, they get the "talk," which they find much more intimidating.\
good luck witti,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 10, 2008, at 17:54:55
In reply to Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others, posted by antigua3 on October 10, 2008, at 10:11:15
To clarify, I only think of myself in those terms. I'm well aware that people change over time, and that sensible sober considerations don't always govern the procreation process. They did in my case, but I've been pragmatic since birth.
I like the phrase "good enough mother" because it makes the endeavor less intimidating than "good" mother.
It also takes into account the needs of the child. What's good enough for one child might not be good enough for another.
It doesn't sound as if your mother was a good enough mother to you. She may have been overwhelmed by life, and done the best she could given her own limitations. But that didn't make her a good enough mother for you. You had a lot of quite reasonable needs that she didn't meet. It doesn't mean she was evil. It's a completely different measure. She didn't adequately function as a mother to you. She made choices which were harmful to you, and she didn't consistently buffer those experiences for you.
Good enough mother, to me, is in some ways judgment neutral. You can love your mother and recognize her love for you, while still acknowledging that she wasn't a good enough mother to you.
From what you've said here, your therapist is a good enough mother to you. She is consistent and nurturing, and can provide a buffer and a balance to your pdoc. So it sounds as if she's providing a corrective emotional experience at least in some ways.
But maybe you're also looking for other experiences? The yin to her yang? Or vice versa, I can never remember.
From what you've said here, you're also a good enough mother to your children. So you've at least had one good enough parent/child bond?
Posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 11:29:55
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 10, 2008, at 17:54:55
I have been thinking about your post a lot and wanted to be sure of what I had to say before I posted.
For the most part, you probably are right, that within certain definitions my mother may not appear to have been a good enough mother to me.
But, to me, she was and continues to be. She loves me intensely in the right ways, is always supportive and makes a concentrated effort to be involved in my life (she lives far away). On the downside, I'd say she takes my "downs" too personally so it is hard to be real w/her all the time.
I've always loved her and have found peace in my relationship w/her. I told her about what my father did to me as a child and while we don't necessarily "discuss it" (she doesn't know details), we certainly haven't avoided the subject. She has been very supportive.
That said, she was pretty much self-absorbed while I was a child and had many of her own issues to deal with. She gave me the bonding I needed to become a good mother to my own children and I'll always be grateful for that. My T says I couldn't be the type of mother I am if I hadn't received that from her, and I believe her.
My mother wasn't evil; my father was.
So, I believe she was "good enough" given the circumstances. We can't control the circumstances we grow up in.
Thanks for making me think about this,
antigua
Posted by Dinah on October 16, 2008, at 12:34:02
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 11:29:55
Perhaps my post came across more negatively than I intended. I didn't mean it that way. Without tone of voice, it's a hard concept to discuss.
And of course it's not either/or. My own mother was good enough in some ways, and not good enough in others. My therapist actually sees her in a more negative light than I do at this point. (But ask me again when she's causing me grief.)
I'm glad your relationship with your mother is a source of support to you.
Posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 13:25:33
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 16, 2008, at 12:34:02
You're right, it's not either/or. It just "is".
I didn't perceive your post as negative at all. Just wanted to let you know that it made me think, which is very good.
antigua
Posted by DAisym on October 16, 2008, at 13:26:50
In reply to Re: Good Enough Mother--Dinah and others » antigua3, posted by Dinah on October 16, 2008, at 12:34:02
What do you do with anger at your mother when
1) She wasn't the one who hurt you
2) She was dealing with her own issues/including ones around your father
3) she was good enough most ways and brilliant in others - so the best parts of you (externally at least) can be traced directly back to her...but you are still hugely, hellishly angry with her.
I find myself thinking of ways to make her suffer like I did - mostly about not being noticed or held or soothed. I want her to experience being so incredibly alone and yet I'm terrified to ever subject her to my angry feelings. I don't want to lose her completely. I've done that once.
My therapist tells me I have good reason to be angry at her. And he understands the fear and need to protect her - that secondary retraumatization that PC talked about. After all this time, what good would it do to tell her? And yet, isn't there always an elephant in the room when we are together?
Mother stuff makes my chest hurt
Posted by antigua3 on October 16, 2008, at 14:46:20
In reply to Re: Good Enough and yet..., posted by DAisym on October 16, 2008, at 13:26:50
Actually, Daisy, I think you have the right approach, and I'm the one who's wrong.
You should be angry at your mother; she didn't notice, recognize, whatever was going on and she didn't protect you.
You have to get the anger out and get it to a manageable level before you approach your mother, if you choose to do so. Of course there's an elephant in the room. It's always between my mother and me, and sometimes we skirt around the issue and sometimes we talk about it a bit, but it's always there.
I have chosen denial, and you are dealing with the anger appropriately. Much better than me.
That baseball bat is still around if you need it...
antigua
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