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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pegasus on April 19, 2007, at 22:15:43
. . . tomorrow, and I'm shakin in my boots. Lately, I've been feeling so strong and capable, but just the thought of talking to him has me reverting back to a puddle of nonsensical anxieties. Can it be that I'm actually more healthy lately *because* I'm not working with him? Maybe his style encouraged my pathology or something. I'm not even making sense here. I'm only posting because I'm so stinking freaked out about tomorrow.
I meant to write about what I wanted to talk to him about, but at the moment I have no freaking idea. I want him to tell me that there's something special about me that he values. And that we still have a relationship, and that he actually wants to talk to me. Maybe that *he* lost a little something of some sort when we had to end therapy. When I ask for that type of thing, though, he tells me that I already know that he likes me, so it's something in me that keeps me wanting to hear it more. So, maybe I'm just messed up. 'Cause I do want to hear it. I can't explain why.
I'm just nervous, nervous. Maybe I won't ask for what I want right. And maybe he'll refuse to give it. But, dang it, after all this time I think I can finally ask, so I'm just going to. I may be posting tomorrow as a quivering mess if it doesn't go well.
peg
Posted by Daisym on April 20, 2007, at 1:15:06
In reply to Another session with ex-T, posted by pegasus on April 19, 2007, at 22:15:43
Peg,
There is nothing wrong with wanting to know that someone you cared about and shared with so intimately, misses and cares about you too. I almost hear "how could you leave me?" when you write about the separation. It is so raw and it just happened to fast -- you weren't ready. So you are, I think, still trying to process it, make sense of it and all the feelings. I imagine it might feel like waking up suddenly when the alarm didn't go off. You have to shoot straight up and out of bed and hit the floor running. There is no time to reflect and get used to being awake. When you finally can slow down and catch your breath, it feels like everything is ascew - not quite right, even if it is.
I think you are doing very well with asking for what you need. You need to know he cares; you need to know he felt bad about your pain; and you need to know he wishes, like you wish, it could be done differently. Or not at all. And I think you need to know he misses you now too. But I also think that it can never really be enough, because you weren't done but your therapy ended. So there is an ache, even if it is old.
Good luck tomorrow. I hope you get what you need from this.
Posted by susan47 on April 20, 2007, at 14:02:02
In reply to Another session with ex-T, posted by pegasus on April 19, 2007, at 22:15:43
I know what you mean about his style and that perhaps encouraging your "pathology" ... I do know that very very well. It isn't unreasonable to think that, at all.
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 21, 2007, at 10:36:07
In reply to Another session with ex-T, posted by pegasus on April 19, 2007, at 22:15:43
Posted by crushedout on April 21, 2007, at 17:43:32
In reply to Another session with ex-T, posted by pegasus on April 19, 2007, at 22:15:43
I can relate so much to your post, and the way you write. It made me laugh but not at you of course.how did it go? did you tell him?
i wish i could just ask my T for what i want from her.
Posted by pegasus on April 21, 2007, at 22:07:25
In reply to Another session with ex-T, posted by pegasus on April 19, 2007, at 22:15:43
I only have a moment, but I wanted to thank those of you who posted, and those of you who read, for being interested. The session was . . . um . . . good, I think. But very hard. In a nutshell, we talked a lot about anger, and we sort of went back to the first session after he told me he was leaving, and did parts of it over again. He told me a ton of good things about how of course I was hurt and angry, and that he was sorry. He said he was sorry a couple of different times in different ways.
At the end I finally choked out my question about how was his relationship with me unique, and what did he lose from that that was valuable to him. He said, "OK, we're going to talk about this again." Meaning, we need another session. So, I'm going to talk to him next week. I also made him give some kind of comment this time, before we said goodbye. He said that he thinks my question has to do with my sense of self, and that he understands that I want to know about how I'm not just in some category of "clients" for him.
Then he gave me homework, which is to practice asking that question again, and try to feel the feelings that went along with it. The idea is to practice being with difficult emotions, and learning about them.
Sigh. I felt heard and supported and basically valued by him, so it was definitely worth it. I think these three sessions are going to turn out to be very helpful.
peg
Posted by susan47 on April 21, 2007, at 23:35:09
In reply to quick summary, posted by pegasus on April 21, 2007, at 22:07:25
Thanks for sharing this with us.
Posted by Honore on April 22, 2007, at 19:38:44
In reply to quick summary, posted by pegasus on April 21, 2007, at 22:07:25
Hi, pegasus.
These meetings sound extremely difficult, but potentally so rewarding. The emotions and reactions must be hard to categorize or write about. They couldn't possibly have one name when there's so much to convey --such multi-layered conversations, with so much resonance, involving so much mutual history.
You sound as though you've gotten a tremendous amount out of this, and will look back on it as an exciting and really worthwhile moment-- Thanks for letting us know.
Seems like your old T really recognizes and wants to respond to what you're looking for. I very much hope he's able to give you a sense of that different, better ending.
Honore
Posted by pegasus on April 22, 2007, at 22:22:09
In reply to quick summary, posted by pegasus on April 21, 2007, at 22:07:25
Thanks you guys for being so supportive and encouraging. This *is* hard, but really good, I think. I'm so glad I asked for these sessions.
Today I've been practicing asking him about what was unique in our relationship that was valuable. These are the things that come up when I go there:
- It's not ok to ask for that kind of info. It's like fishing for compliments, which is really bad.
- It's not safe to ask it. It's too vulnerable. Easy to end up being laughed at, or ridiculed.
- It's humiliating to ask this thing that everyone wants to ask: Am I special? Tell me how?
- I feel really young when I ask.
- I really don't know what he will answer. And I really want to know. It feels very important.That's where I am with it so far. This feels like big work.
peg
Posted by gazo on April 23, 2007, at 0:07:01
In reply to Lots of stuff coming up, posted by pegasus on April 22, 2007, at 22:22:09
you're doing some hard stuff. kudos to you for doing it. i understand why you want to ask these things... the one thing i value most from my last session with my former T was that i gave him feedback which had not occurred to him and he told me he would never ever forget that. Those words meant so much to me. It was a gift.
Posted by Daisym on April 24, 2007, at 19:29:19
In reply to Lots of stuff coming up, posted by pegasus on April 22, 2007, at 22:22:09
****Today I've been practicing asking him about what was unique in our relationship that was valuable. These are the things that come up when I go there:
- It's not ok to ask for that kind of info. It's like fishing for compliments, which is really bad.
>>>>I think it is more like looking for reassurance and there is nothing bad in that. Besides, therapy isn't a "polite" relationship. You ask questions you'd NEVER ask anywhere else. And you think about why you want to ask the questions, which is what you are doing now.- It's not safe to ask it. It's too vulnerable. Easy to end up being laughed at, or ridiculed.
>>>>This sounds like a wounded voice, has this happened to you before? Is this your experience with him, or someone else? If it isn't with him, what makes you think he would react this way now?- It's humiliating to ask this thing that everyone wants to ask: Am I special? Tell me how?
>>>>Let's clarify this. Is it humiliating to ask, as in, you should just know if you are or you aren't? Or, is it humiliating to want to be special? And not only that, but to want him to prove that you are special by giving you the reasons? It has been something I struggled with over and over again. What does it mean if I am special to my therapist? Why is it so important? We've talked about this a lot. He tells me, "of course you want to be special to me. Who wouldn't? It feels good to be special." He even told me that when he was in therapy, he wanted to be special to his therapist too. When I asked how he got over wanting this, he said he didn't but it wasn't as much an issue for him. He accepted that he was special better than I do and he accepted that it was OK to want that. Oh, and he did actually tell me that "of course" I *am* special to him. And he said it with this wondering tone, kind of like, "how could you not know this?" :)
--I feel really young when I ask.
>>>>>Seems to me that the younger part of you, the part that was/is probably painfully, deeply attached, comes up here. It *is* OK to regress around this - it was traumatic and painful. Is it too hard to let this part get what she needs? I suspect this isn't the first time your (ex)-therapist has dealt with young feelings. Therapy, by design, calls them forth.- I really don't know what he will answer. And I really want to know. It feels very important.
>>>>This is an important risk. And because it is so very important to you, it is one worth taking. No, you don't know what he is going to say. But if he was going to say, "go away," don't you think he would have refused the phone calls? Instead, he clearly sees how important this is for you to work through. So let yourself ask these questions and at the same time, try and figure out why it is so important.It does sound really hard. And really important. I'm glad you feel our support. Thank you for sharing all of this.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by pegasus on April 25, 2007, at 8:59:05
In reply to Re: Lots of stuff coming up » pegasus, posted by Daisym on April 24, 2007, at 19:29:19
Thanks so much Daisy. That gives me more to think about, which I'm sure will help when I finally talk about it with my ex-T. Somehow while reading your replies I started to feel very very tired. I'm going to have to think about that as well. I think I'm avoiding looking at these things the way you did, while recognizing that it would be helpful. At times like that I tend to get a "brain scramble" or a profound tiredness.
peg
Posted by pegasus on April 25, 2007, at 9:03:18
In reply to Lots of stuff coming up, posted by pegasus on April 22, 2007, at 22:22:09
This morning I realized the biggest thing that comes up when I think about the questions I want to ask is a huge irrational fear: What if he didn't notice anything special? What if he didn't find anything uniquely valuable in our relationship?
I'm absolutely positive that that couldn't be the case. I don't get that sense from him, and anyway I don't believe it's possible to really make a connection with another person (any other person), and not feel something unique in that connection. But that freezing fear is definitely there. My inner 10 year old frames it as: "What if I'm not really there." Yikes. Got something to work on with this one.
peg
Posted by Daisym on April 25, 2007, at 13:00:27
In reply to Re: Lots of stuff coming up, posted by pegasus on April 25, 2007, at 9:03:18
I just had this long conversation with my therapist about states and the need for others to mirror states, particularly when we are young. The need to know that you are held in another's mind and that your feelings, good and bad, can be contained, is vital to the development of the self. Usually parents and children do this dance in infancy and it continues as the child grows. I'm sure you've seen it in your own daughter - if she gets wildly excited - she turns to you for regulation, "is this OK mom?" or even, "help me calm down a little" - and you mirror for her the excitement she is feeling (or fear, or whatever) and then you bring her down with your voice, or a touch or a look. When ever there is an onslaught of new feelings and sensations, we need some help sorting those out. And I can see how a 10 year old would be feeling and thinking all kinds of new, prepubescent kinds of conflicts. The "who am I? Who am I supposed to be? Is it OK to be me? Can anyone see what I'm struggling with?" questions are huge at this age. It makes a lot of sense that this is the part that needs to know she is special and unique to your therapist.
I get tired too when my brain doesn't want to consider all of this stuff. I hope you rested well.
Posted by pegasus on April 26, 2007, at 9:02:37
In reply to Re: Lots of stuff coming up » pegasus, posted by Daisym on April 25, 2007, at 13:00:27
Oh, Daisy, that is so perfect. Thank you for posting that. I think I'm going to read it to my ex-T, and say that is exactly how it feels. He was my mirror, and I hadn't yet learned what one needs to learn from having that.
I think I wasn't noticed much when I was a kid. Got overlooked in all of the hubub in my family. And when I was noticed, it was usually to tell me to shut up, or get in line, or to ridicule me, or hurt me.
I've been working hard with my new T to find a better sense of myself. But this piece with my old T seems important to that as well.
Daisy, we're lucky to have you here at babble. You've helped me a lot with this, in this thread and many others.
peg
Posted by Daisym on April 26, 2007, at 12:07:22
In reply to Re: Lots of stuff coming up » Daisym, posted by pegasus on April 26, 2007, at 9:02:37
I'm so glad I can help. (not everyone thinks so -oye!)
Don't you just wish you could apply what sounds so reasonable for someone else to yourself??
When is the next call?
Posted by pegasus on April 26, 2007, at 13:04:57
In reply to Re: Lots of stuff coming up, posted by Daisym on April 26, 2007, at 12:07:22
Not until a week from tomorrow. I had to cancel this week because of some conflicts at work. But it's good. It gives me more time to get my thoughts together. This has all been very helpful.
This is the end of the thread.
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