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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:21:09
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:10:16
hi..
I feel a little sad and shaky over all this...
It is so hard for me to believe my T cares about me even though she reassures me over and over and over...
I will try to ask her to explain so I can share here.better go and hide because i don't want to lose the sense of safety she helps me build and which is so hard for me to feel.
i keep hearing her saying those words, and why would she lie? She did say "I love you very much". Why would she lie if it weren't true? I've known her for 7 years...
sorry if i sound a little hurt....just a delicate topic for me
Frida
Posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 16:39:38
In reply to Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 13:51:23
That really hurts me to hear you see that. It is there job, but my T has reminded me many times that what we are doing is real, and our relationship is real. He tells me I haven't been filled up with good parenting in my life, and part of his helping me is to fill me up a little bit. How could he help me get some of that missing parenting if I didn't love him?
It is painful to me that it is only his job, but I also respect that a lot, maybe too much. He says that it's really great that I can say that I love him because it's a real feeling and before I would have just ignored it or not been able to say it.
It is a real relationship, even if it's his job.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 16:58:05
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:10:16
I just don't find that a very funny joke. I identify very much with frida's feelings. I don't want to lose the safety I feel with my T. Please be respectful of the deep connection some of us feel with our Ts. It really is not a subject to joke about for many people. I'm sorry you haven't felt a connection like that and don't understand.
sunnydays
Posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:13:40
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » gazo, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:21:09
i am very sorry frida.. i didn't mean to hurt your feelings at all. i never said she did lie. If you feel she loves you then that is what should matter, not what i think. i'm just trying to give my own thoughts.
again, i'm sorry frida. No hurt was meant.
Posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:28:09
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » gazo, posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 16:58:05
i do respect people here. i did not mean disrespect in my joke.
i never said it was wrong or that *you* shouldn't feel the way you do.
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 18:39:13
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » frida, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:13:40
HI everyone,
please allow me to say a huge big I AM SORRY FOR HURTING YOU, I REALLY DIDN'T MEAN ANYONE OF YOU ANY HARM....
PLEASE believe that i meant no disrespect whatsoever to your feelings...please allow me to apologise profusely for hurting you...
It was never my intention... i only wrote what i felt at the time, and that's what i felt...strongly enough about to reply to the original post and legitimately ask in a non judgemental way... ,,, "what is the point"? but that was just my own feling and thots on the matter...
it was NEVER EVER to disrespect anyones confessions of love to their therapists ... NEVER NEVER NEVER...as i love mine too... But I just couldn't see the point in how much i care about what she thinks of me when i know its just her job, and i'm not on her mind a fraction of the amount of time that she ...is on mine... ( i have observed how much others on this board also appear to be fixated, and obsessed with their therapists... i am simply questioning for myself, what is the point?
I never ever intended harm, distress, discomfort or any other negative thing to YOU... I hope you will forgive me...
Respectfully to all who have posted, and to all who may have felt offended who have not posted but may have read .... I apologise again..!
Happy Easter...! I hope you can forgive me. Thank you
Scentedgarden.
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 8, 2007, at 18:55:30
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » gazo, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:21:09
Hi, Frida. I totally agree with you -- I could not pay my T enough money for her to stick around through some of the things I've put her through. Your relationship with your T sounds very similar. In my opinion, my T finished raising me and did a much better job than my parents. I pay her because everyone has to have money to live, but if she didn't care, there are a lot of other things she could do for probably more money and less hassle. I'm not saying that's true across the board, but I do think it's true of a majority of good Ts. Who would want to sit and listen to people's pain hour after hour, day after day, if they didn't care about those people?
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:05:56
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » frida, posted by TherapyGirl on April 8, 2007, at 18:55:30
Hi,
thanks for your post. It sounds you have a similar relationship. I also have put her through so many painful things and moments. She has even acknowledged this, and told me how I've made her feel frustrated, in doubt of her own capacity as a T, and many other things....because I've tested her trust sooooooo much and have really made her go through difficult moments.I also feel she has given me what my parents never did...she has told me things I ached to hear all my life..like she would have noticed and rescued me back then if she had had the chance..
and that I mattered, etc..She genuinely cares about my well-being.
I agree with what you say, they have to make a living, but if she didn't care she would have left me a long time ago. I pay her just a little, and I've made her feel really bad sometimes. But she's stuck with me.Unfortunately there are bad T's out there...but I agree that I think good T's do feel differently about this.
Thank you for your message, it helped :-)
Frida
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:11:22
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » frida, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:13:40
that's okay, I understand your feelings and your opinion, too...it's just a very delicate, sensitive topic..
and it is really, really hard for me to believe her and to feel worth enough..for her to care about me...that's why I try to hang on to her words even if I have trouble sometimes believing it or internalizing things.
It's just taken us years to get to a point where I can believe her when she says I love you very much, and it even hurts her feelings when I treat her as a stranger or don't honour the bond we've built. She'd tell me to think about everything we've been together and what she tells me and how she has given me so much of her soul in these 7 years.
maybe some bad T's who aren't committed to their work do harm, I am so sorry that you feel it's not real...
It's just hard to hear because some of us have spent years trying to believe it is real..and it's taken a lot of tears, pain, hard work on our part and our T's too...
that's why it's such a delicate issue.I've never trusted anyone as much as I trust my T, and she's helped me feel hope again when I had lost it completely.
it's a delicate issue...
thanks for your post,
Frida
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:18:51
In reply to Sincere apologies 4 causing distress 2 all of you, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 18:39:13
hi,
it truly is ok, it is okay that you expressed your thoughts and feelings and I hear how hurt you are.I am just so sorry you feel this way.
I just don't agree with "it's just her job"...
and I don't think a lot of people are "obsessed" with their therapists..
I am just sad for you that you feel it this way.It's a hard topic..
but in my personal case, (as i know many others feel), I love my T deeply, as a mother...(I was abused as a child by my father). She has given me the kind of acceptance, love, safety and caring I had never received.
And she's reassured me our relationship is real, and the love we feel *is* mutual, even though her role is to help me and guide me through this.
I know she thinks of me outside sessions, because she cares...she often comes and tells me she has watched a movie, or read a book, or listened to something that made her think of me, she tells me that seeing 7year old children sometimes moves her because she sees me in them and all the pain I still hide inside from that part of me, she reads my letters, watches a movie that I tell her or reads a book if I tell her it was important to me...and this she does outside our T time.If it weren't for the T relationship and her love and caring, I would have just given up. It has sustained me. She's given me safety.
That is the point for me....it is really life-changing for me and being able to receive unconditional love without having to get hurt and being able to trust someone after your trust has been shattered in such a horrible way, it is really deep.
I am sorry your T has let you down in a way. I'm sorry you feel this way.
Happy easter to you too :-)
love,
Frida
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 20:38:12
In reply to Re: Sincere apologies 4 causing distress 2 all of you » Scentedgarden, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:18:51
I am not saying that what we feel for them isnt real... feelings are feelings.... noone loves their therapist anymore then i love mine... im just saying what I said and i aint explaining it all again. .but pls, im not in a position that i want anyone feeling sad for me... i have as much love for my t as anyone on here....
all i felt like sayin g at the time is whats the point in getting all choked up about how we tell them and so on and so forth... as i doubt very much that they sit at home thinking about us... so in that respect if you read thru the archives of this board over the yrs day in and day out people are for want of a better word obsessed with their therapist... if thats difficult for anyone to read then maybe its cos it hits a chord with them ….i dont know.... im just being subjective… I don’t mean to hit chords but I cant please everyone here…I speak from myself only and I have been obsessed to a certain degree… depending on how you look at it… but if someone is on your mind and you count the days to see them and you think about them constantly and cant live without them …I wonder if that isn’t obsessed then you tell me what the heck is> lol….laughing now!
I never said it isnt real feelings... but they don’t come to us for love do they? they have other people to do that feeling with in their life... That's what i mean by keeping it real.. we are not out therapists friends...! we are not their children, and we are not their spouse. or sister or ever will be...that's all im saying
yes it precious ....yes its special....!!! I agree with all the positive things …. ITS VERY SPECIAL..VERY VERY OPRECIOUS<<<< I TOO WOULD NOT BE HERE WITHOUT THE RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH MINE>>>>> SO PLS DON’T MISINTERPRET ME>>> ALL I ASKED WAS, what’s the point?
i speak for myself when i say that.... and anyone who feels deeply for their therapist... im just saying what i said and i aint analysing it any fecking more... i gotta right to have my say just as much as anyone on here... yes i ry to be supportive... but is supportive always to molly coddle people... ive been told on here before flat out things that have hurt me when i confessed my feelings for my therapist and i took it on the chin....
im not taking away from the fact we love them... im just saying what i said about ..and i wont say sorry or explain it anymore...dont be sad for me... im fine thanks....dont think you know me cos i write a few posts here...everything is open to interpretation... and i just felt like saying what i said.... i wanted someone to show me the answer... it was a challenge for you all to tell me what the point it... it wasn't a negative thing... unless its interpreted negatively.... and i have no control over how the readers interpret the posts....
But I was looking for some positive feedback...for someone to take the challenge mentally and emotionally and in their heart and tell me what they think about the love flow from therapist to patient...to show me the point...
I wasn’t dissing the point.. i was genuinely asking for people to share with me the positives of it all...i have my own ideas ...on the positives of it all but i just wanted to hear yours too.... away i guess i shouldn't expect anyone to understand what the feck am talking about ... why would you its all subjective.... so lets not even bother to try ...im tired with this now... i think I'll have a break from the boards as well for a while... Good wishes to all who know me and who like me and to those who don't... i wish you all a happy week ahead with your comings and goings and your therapy sessions... THANK YOU ALL FOR CARING
take care bye bye
sg
Posted by antigua on April 8, 2007, at 20:41:56
In reply to Sincere apologies 4 causing distress 2 all of you, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 18:39:13
Hi,
I went through a phase with my T, where I would hit her hard, and often, and not so nicely, with "it's just your job, you don't really care."For me, and I'm only saying me, it took me a while to figure out that this was a defense mechanism I was using from letting her in. I didn't (and I still don't to some extent) realize how hurtful this was to her until she explained. Just shutting her out when we have been working so closely together for so long, why would I do that? I know it's just her job, but our relationship is so much more than that. I have a real problem with this, as I said I use it shut her out. But this is only me, it's like the ultimate depersonalization I can use on her. "You don't really care, it's just your job."
Sorry, I'm rambling, too much food today. Just wanted to say that I understand your feeling, but maybe there's something behind it too.
antigua
Posted by antigua on April 8, 2007, at 20:46:53
In reply to Re: Whats the point..??????????????????????????????? » Scentedgarden, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 14:15:34
Do we have the same T? Our relationships w/our Ts sound familiar. I have to believe she cares and loves me, even if I try to deny it A LOT, and if I thought she lied to me, it would all be over (lying is a huge issue for me). She keeps hanging in there with me and has been a great mother to me. The best part is that she has helped me to be a good mother my own children, and she has done it with love.
best,
antigua
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 20:52:04
In reply to Re: Whats the point..??????????????????????????????? » frida, posted by antigua on April 8, 2007, at 20:46:53
:-)
me too...lying is huge for me too, and I have tested her so much. I have to believe she cares too. She reassures me a lot, and proves to me and has stuck by me even though I've truly made it hard for her and I still do.
I'm glad you feel she does care about you and you have a deep relationship with her.
One of the things that has helped me to stop pushing her away so much (I still do) was to know what this is like for her. She has been open lately about her feelings about it and how painful it is that I push her away or doubt her and test her so much. Before, I thought that this didn't affect her, but it does.That's wonderful that she's been like a mother to me,I feel the same way about my T.
:-)
Thanks for sharing
Frida
Posted by antigua on April 8, 2007, at 21:03:19
In reply to Re: Whats the point..??????????????????????????????? » antigua, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 20:52:04
Well, I'm currently going through my teenage rebellion with her (16 years) and being the parent of a teenager myself, I know I'm not so easy to deal with right now. I want to fly on my own, but I still need her.
take care,
antigua
Posted by pegasus on April 9, 2007, at 0:05:46
In reply to Thanks but pls dont be sad for me...It's kool okay, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 20:38:12
Scentedgarden, you've asked what is the point of having these feelings for our Ts, when they don't feel the same way toward us. When you ask that, I always get confused. Is there supposed to be a point? I thought that feelings just were what they were. If you can't find a point to them, it doesn't mean they're not valid, or real, or whatever you are trying to communicate. In fact, I have a hard time with the idea of finding a point to any feelings that I have about anything. Maybe I don't understand what you are trying to ask.
The closest I can come, I guess, is to think of the reasons I've read for why we have emotions in general. So, you know, they say we feel fear, because it helps us avoid dangers, so it helps us survive. So, then, I guess we feel attachment to people who give us what we need, emotionally. I think that is as much of a point to feeling love for our Ts as there is any point to any other feelings.
To me, the question of whether my T loves me back is kind of moot with respect to what I feel for her. I feel what I feel, and if she doesn't feel it back, that doesn't make it wrong, or pointless, or invalid. She has her own feelings for me, whatever they are. And me loving her doesn't make her feelings insufficient, or whatever. Do you see what I mean?
I hope this isn't too far off the mark of what you were getting after. I'm really trying to give you my answer to your question.
peg
Posted by Daisym on April 9, 2007, at 1:23:32
In reply to Re: Thanks but pls dont be sad for me...It's kool okay » Scentedgarden, posted by pegasus on April 9, 2007, at 0:05:46
I think there are some very good reasons to express any and all feelings that are called up during therapy. First is to know that there is a wide range of feelings a person can have towards another person and this is normal. Sometimes we love and sometimes we hate. It is also to learn how to express our feelings - to practice the vocabulary of feelings. And by expressing our feelings, we can learn how to handle them, instead of ignoring them. I don't think you can get help sorting out your feelings if you don't talk about them.
Specifically about loving feelings -- I think being able to tell someone such a wonderful thing and not have them run screaming out of the room is a way to learn that it is Ok to have these feelings for someone. In the safety of a therapy relationship, we can figure out why we love them, what love means to us and how we feel inside when we label it love. It is a place to be able to dissect the feeling, if we want to. For some of us, it might be the first time we feel deeply for someone who won't exploit those feelings.
For me, it was discovering that I could feel love and want to tell the person about my feelings. I never thought that would happen to me.
The point of expressing love in therapy is not, for me, any expectation that my love would be returned. I did it because I wanted to and it felt better to express it than repress it.
Posted by Dinah on April 9, 2007, at 1:30:10
In reply to Re: Whats the point..??????????????????????????????? » frida, posted by antigua on April 8, 2007, at 21:03:19
But what I have read reminded me of this post I recently came across.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040303/msgs/321437.html
I found it very useful when I was negotiating that phase of our relationship, and I still find it useful.
Thanks gardenergirl.
Incidentally, there is no way after all this time and all we've been through that I could ever consider that there isn't a very real relationship there, even if it's constrained by therapy rules. I do love him dearly, without mistaking that love for anything but what it is. And in his own way, I think he's fond of me too, although he'd never say the L word. At the very least, he cares for me and values our relationship for more than the income stream (although I'd be a fool to think he doesn't value the income stream as well).
If I ever doubt it, I only have to think about how his manner has shifted from a careful therapeutic neutrality to occasional nagging and irritation when he doesn't think I'm doing what's best for me - before he remembers (or is reminded) that he's not my mother.
Which doesn't mean he won't abandon me if he needs to for the good of his family or for his good. But I do think he'd feel sorry about it.
Posted by Dinah on April 9, 2007, at 1:39:18
In reply to Reasons, posted by Daisym on April 9, 2007, at 1:23:32
I wish I was that good or nice. :(
When I first expressed it, it was more a battle. I hated caring about him, and wondered if it was ok, and hated that I cared more than he did.
I still hate that.
I think if I hadn't felt like he cared at least a fair amount, I would still hate that I love him. Unrequited love s*cks. The power differential s*cks.
Maybe I'm just not nice enough to enjoy the expression of caritas without expectation. Well, I can't say there was expectation. That's why the admission was more of a reproach at first.
But... I guess it depends on my mood. Sometimes I could say with perfect good humor that I loved him, even if I wasn't feeling loved. Other times I felt like an idiot, or worse.
Posted by Dinah on April 9, 2007, at 2:17:55
In reply to Re: Reasons » Daisym, posted by Dinah on April 9, 2007, at 1:39:18
I'm too darned tired to make any sense at all.
Posted by inimitable on April 9, 2007, at 3:01:16
In reply to Reasons, posted by Daisym on April 9, 2007, at 1:23:32
well put daisy! that's my view on it as well :)
Posted by sunnydays on April 9, 2007, at 8:33:28
In reply to Re: Thanks but pls dont be sad for me...It's kool okay » Scentedgarden, posted by pegasus on April 9, 2007, at 0:05:46
Very well said pegasus. I really like that perspective. I may even have to try to make that stick in my head for the times when I feel like I'm being selfish or something for missing him. :)
sunnydays
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 9, 2007, at 11:26:14
In reply to Re: Thanks but pls dont be sad for me...It's kool okay » pegasus, posted by sunnydays on April 9, 2007, at 8:33:28
Just like to express my gratefullness to everyone for their help, for their sharing , and especially for their caring enought to say something back to me when i asked the question..."what's the point"? I have been blown away by all the replies...and i just want you to know i appreciate YOU everyone..!
Maybe i have some anger towards the impossible situation of never being able to go home with my therpaist and have her tuck me into bed, or to be my mummy forever in real life... or anyhting erotic, as i had those feelings too...( i know some people dont feel that way but i do, as im what you might call highly ,sexually charged lol...and im and adult, and my therapist is stunning from the inside out) - BY the way im still seeing my therapist, and i'm still working through the end... I have huge gaps between appointments as she is weaning me away from her! I mean HUGE gaps... but she is still my therapist..! And will be until the close of 2007. But its a case of 5 appointments over the course of the year which is very few compared to once a week which we had for 2 yrs.. anyway thats my problem and not anyone's here... It is a bitter sweet... time for Scentedgarden... big sighs
Im sorry (i know i said i wouldnt say sorry again) but im sorry i have not expressed this very well... I have not been able to show what i wanted to show you...But those of you who do know me a little better than most on here will know that i love my therapist and i know she probably does loves me in a therapist loving way... I just hate the pain...and the hurt involved. Im sorry if i made everyone feel tired by this... (crying now) cause im fragile and feel vulnerable sometimes on here, trying to say something that is a little deeper than usual on the board. But it is a complex arrangment, therapy, ...and I only wanted to help people think about what the point was and share it with me... so i could learn from you guys... and hopefully someone could give me some insight and help me to keep on walking through this difficult phase and out the other side...the other side of loving someone more than you've ever loved another human being before...and i did love very intensely before i met my therpaist i was in love with the same man for 17 years... so I do what it is to love, but what happened with my T became something i was completely unprepared for. And, oh anyway it's not important... I just want you all to know i say THANKS!!! THANKS TO YOU for sharing with me and caring enough to reply..I hope you all feel less tired today...and enjoy the day relaxing and being good and kind to yourselves... I will be busy for the next few days but i will check in to see if anyone has replied to this..!!!!
God bless you this easter bank holiday..!
Respectfully,
Scentedgarden
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 9, 2007, at 14:14:57
In reply to Thank U 2 EVERYONE... 4 givin ur reasons 4 loving!, posted by Scentedgarden on April 9, 2007, at 11:26:14
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 9, 2007, at 14:29:37
In reply to Re: Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by wishingstar on April 8, 2007, at 14:48:38
Thank you wishing star ..your post really touched me... but see the point about how its a different caring from the otherrelationships you have in your life, thats what is painful inside of me... knowing i can not be a real life person in her real life... to the point that im not a part of her job only....
everyhting you have shared here with me is very valuable to me.... and i sorry if i dont convey that well enough.... i hope you can read between the lines ... and i thank you once again for sharing all you have with me...
God bless you wishingstar
from sg
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