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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by inimitable on April 7, 2007, at 14:51:19
yup, i let my T know, in a letter, that i love him. i told him i didn't want to analyze in what WAY i love him (i used to think about him constantly)but anyways, i also told him thank you for probably saving my life this past december. wouldn't be here if i hadn't had him in my life. but i am wondering what he'll say to the i love you....i am nervous because he's the first guy i've said that too, really meaning it, FEELING it.
have any of you ever done something like this? TOLD your T you love them? i know my T will be nice about it...but he might be weirded out, he's only a grad student, after all.
*inimitable
Posted by frida on April 7, 2007, at 17:20:14
In reply to i love you, posted by inimitable on April 7, 2007, at 14:51:19
Hi..
That's a brave thing to do.
I've told my T that I love her, in letters I always tell her, and I've told her on the phone. She was great about it and said that after all this time, that feeling is mutual, and she loves me too. It's been a while since I last told her and it's hard to say...She has reassured me that she cares about me very much and reacts as if it were something very natural, but saying it out loud is difficult.
I am glad you could tell your T.
It's a special thing and from your heart.
A gift :-)Hope everything goes well,
Frida
Posted by sunnydays on April 7, 2007, at 21:10:40
In reply to i love you, posted by inimitable on April 7, 2007, at 14:51:19
I told him once in a session. I posted a month or two ago about it. He said he had loving feelings for me too, and it was probably one of the best sessions we've ever had.
sunnydays
Posted by 10derHeart on April 7, 2007, at 23:20:32
In reply to Re: i love you » inimitable, posted by frida on April 7, 2007, at 17:20:14
I am a little envious, yup. And I think you all are amazing. I want to say it one day. The sooner the better, but I'm way too scared so far. I feel it's close to being possible, but not quite..
I could say, "You know I adore you, right?" - well, maybe I could say that. That's close, at least.
Or something even lamer like, "There's a lot of affection in this room..."
sheesh. Euphemisms and dancing around the truth.
Why? We have a great rapport, and he normally handles the important stuff really well. But this seems so big. What if he's taken off guard and slips into some textbook lecture on the nature of the T. relationship? I'd be so disappointed and upset.Blah - I'm a chicken, but this *is* a tough one.
Posted by inimitable on April 8, 2007, at 2:55:24
In reply to All of you are brave about this, posted by 10derHeart on April 7, 2007, at 23:20:32
that is what i am a little scared about too, "the nature of the client/T relationship" talk. but i think i know he wouldn't do that, because he knows how fragile i am, when it comes to love. this is why i gave him the letter last week, (and it was SO cute when i gave it to him, told him not to read it til after session, he got a little nervous and asked if there was anything he needed to know, am i alright, was i going to hurt myself...or were our sessions going the way i wanted...i saw he was nervous and told him don't worry, it's a GOOD letter!), so that he'd have time to look the letter over with his supervisor, so she would help him know how to handle it. i just can't wait to see what he says. now, don't know if i could actually SAY it, in person, but knowing that he knows it finally....that's enough for now. i just kind of worry that he'll think i'm loving him like a "father" in a sense. and although i said i wouldn't analyze my love for him...i KNOW i don't want him to think that about my love for him.
Posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 9:55:34
In reply to All of you are brave about this, posted by 10derHeart on April 7, 2007, at 23:20:32
See, I worked up to it for months. I started out saying, sometimes I wish you were my father. Then I worked up to saying that I care about him. Then I finally said the "l-word". He admitted that when I first said it, he was "filled with warmth" but then he didn't know what to say because he didn't want to mess up anything between us. Finally, at the very end he decided to tell me he also had loving feelings, but he explained a whole lot that they weren't sexual, but not because he didn't think I was pretty, but that they were more fatherly or brotherly. He really was kind of cute because he felt like he had to explain it so much. So I would bet most T's wouldn't know what to say. But if you have a good one he'll find some way to respond appropriately. At first the only thing my T said was "Wow" though because it was totally unexpected, and then he said he was proud of me for saying that. The wow was really warm, it wasn't like I said anything wrong or anything.
sunnydays
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 13:51:23
In reply to Re: All of you are brave about this » 10derHeart, posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 9:55:34
can someone explain the point to all this ....?
they are our therapists right..!
so why bother...as they are only doing a fecking job..!
sorry if that offends you, i dont mean to ...im just keeping it real! ...if thats okay... these people are not REAL in our real lives...! they go home and love people in their real lives...So whats the big deal about telling them ;i love you' its just a job to these people.. isn't it..? Or am i so unintelligent i fail to see what possible point there is to all this..
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 14:15:34
In reply to Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 13:51:23
I am sorry you feel this way...
I hear hurt in your words. I am sorry if you've had a painful experience :-(I don't agree...
I don't think they are doing just a job. It depends on the T ...and the kind of person they are...
I feel grateful to have found my T.She has been honest about the way she feels, I've seen her for 7 years now. She reassured me over and over, that after all this time, of course she loves me very much, and that love is mutual...not just something on my part. She feels love too. She reassures me that it's part of our therapy relationship, and that she loves me very much..
She truly has given me so much, much more than my parents who hurt me. She gives me so much of herself.and I do feel she's real in my real life. She tells me that she gives me all of her when we see each other, and when we're not together, the connection is still there..she thinks of me outside sessions sometimes and tells me sometimes when she does, (she tells me that seeing her grandchildren reminds her of myself, and what happened to me and how innocent I was)..
and i don't feel it's for the money. I pay her less than her usual fee because I can't afford it, she waits for me when I can't pay her right away and I feel she has given me a lot. When I doubt about her feelings, or our relationship, and how real it is, she tells me that we've worked so hard on our bond..and that if I stop and let myself feel it, the reality of it will prove to me that I can trust it's safe and real.I feel we share a very deep connection, she's put up with me and I've made her feel frustrated...but one thing i can be sure of, is that it is real..after all this time and all she's given me from her heart, if I were to doubt, I wouldn't be honouring the bond we share, she tells me this, to please honour the relationship we've built and to give her the gift of trust.
Her focus is to help me, but she says that of course there's love between us after everything we've been through. She's cried for me , I feel that love and caring.
I am truly sorry you feel that it's just their job and it's not real... :-( It makes me sad for you, because I feel a lot of hurt in those words and I'm really sorry if a T has hurt you and made you feel this way.
I wish a good, loving T could show you it's not this way...
Sending you support,
Frida
Posted by inimitable on April 8, 2007, at 14:37:26
In reply to Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 13:51:23
well, i see what you're saying, scentedgarden. but i also know that i haven't wanted so badly to let someone know that i love them before...no man anyways. i don't really care that i do pay to see my T (he actually does NOT get paid...being a grad student and all, but i pay five bucks to see him, that's all, five bucks), but anyways, i WANT to tell him i love him, or let him know, because i've wanted to for a while, and he's been there for me when other people in my life haven't been. he's the first person i feel completely comfortable around, i KNOW he won't judge me, or if i FEEL i am being judged, i KNOW i can tell him. this is the first therapist i have ever had that i've felt THIS close to. i wnat him to know how much he means to me. also...he's a grad student, i want him to know he's doing a good job! :) and although i am not analyzing what this love is (either romantic or innocent), and i may wish that he would love me back (and be hopeful that one day in the future we'll bump into each other, and then start a romantic relationship and have a happy life together with a couple kids..., i still know that that won't happen. and i am okay with that. i can't wait to see him this wednesday!
Posted by wishingstar on April 8, 2007, at 14:48:38
In reply to Re: Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by inimitable on April 8, 2007, at 14:37:26
I think it's still possible for Ts to care about us even though it's just their job. I dont think they generally care in the same way as they care about their best friend or spouse or anyone else they "love", but I do think they can care.. and even feel love.
I feel like I've been suddenly thrown into a new way of seeing this by starting my new job. I'm working basically as a counselor. I'm still new and dont have relationships with any clients that are as deep or long-standing as most of the relationships here... but I can honestly say I do care about my clients. I really do. Some more than others.. but even my hardest one, the one that I prefer the least.. I do care about him and I think about him from time to time. I wouldnt say I love any of them right now, but I can see how I potentially could if I worked with them long enough. But even so, my clients feel like theyre in a totally different category of my life. The caring feels totally genuine, but different somehow from the caring I have for others in my "real" life. But really, the distinction between "real life" and "work" isnt really a real split, I dont think. If I spend 3 hours with a kid.. yes, I'm in a different mindset.. but it's still part of my real life. If he/she says something very close to home, my own issues get triggered and I feel things that are very "real" to me. (I have one client who triggers me to want to SI all the time!) They intersect in so many different ways its impossible to seperate them, I think.
I guess the bottom line from all that rambling is that yes, I think they can genuinely care.There is some seperation though, and that is what allows them to go home at night and not cry over our issues or stay up at night worrying.. and what allows them to do things that are hurtful to us sometimes, if they feel its the most therapeutic.. of course theyre not always right!! but there is value in that seperation. I really do believe it's necessary.
If a client told me they loved me or cared about me, I think I would feel good about that. It would matter to me that theyd said it. I have one client who has told me that she likes "hanging out with me" several times and it really does make me feel good. But I still dont kill myself with worry over her problems, even though they are quite serious, and I do genuinely care about her.
Rambling. I hope that made some sense.
Posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:01:09
In reply to Re: Whats the point..??????????????????????????????? » Scentedgarden, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 14:15:34
just wondering frida... not meant in any bad way.. but do you think it's ok to charge someone money to "love" them?
That's what puts perspective on it for me. i fell for my former T and i realize it's transference... on my end, or the client's end i can see it being real or not... but on the T's end..?? i think they can care.. but i just don't see love as a business transaction. Maybe i define love differently
just my opinion.
Posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:10:16
In reply to Re: Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by wishingstar on April 8, 2007, at 14:48:38
wishingstar i think that was very well said. :o) It's a different kind of caring.
i wonder if private T's ever feel like hookers? i mean, is there a difference between charging for emotional service vs sexual? i think i'll ask my new T that! (and it's just a joke guys)
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:13:15
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????????????????????????????? » frida, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:01:09
Hi Gazo,
Thanks for expressing your opinion.
If it were for the money, I don't represent any real benefit for my T , i pay her much much less than her usual fee and she waits for me, i can't afford it and i pay her what I can.
I see it differently...
she needs to make a living as well.
But if it were only for the money, she could have stopped seeing me years ago, because I can't afford paying.If I look at her and she cries for me or tries so hard to help when I don't even let her..and she does things she receives no benefit from....i do feel it's love on her part. I don't doubt her feelings.
I don't think it's transference. We've shared 7 years, and she has told me that we've both put so much into this relationship..so much of ourselves. She has really tried to help and she's done things that really make me feel it's true and real. She has no benefits if she says with me beyond our time because I'm not ok...or if she devotes time to me in between sessions outside our regular time...and if she doesn't get paid regularly.
She's the only person in my whole life that has made me feel I'm worthwhile and who has made me feel loved for who I am, no matter what.
She explains to me in a way I believe it..and I can see it in her actions. She does things she doesn't have to do as part of "her job".and after all this time, she's very open too about her own feelings and how she views things.
On a different level, I am a teacher and I can say that even though I get paid for teaching, there are some students that I love with all my heart, and that I've kept in touch along the years and are part of my life now that I'm no longer their teacher.
My T gives me safety and I see I touched her life as well..She tells me so.
I don't know, it's hard to explain...
but I do feel it's love. I trust my T and she tells me she does love me. I have no reasons to believe she's lying to me. She knows lies would just kill me.
Frida
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:21:09
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:10:16
hi..
I feel a little sad and shaky over all this...
It is so hard for me to believe my T cares about me even though she reassures me over and over and over...
I will try to ask her to explain so I can share here.better go and hide because i don't want to lose the sense of safety she helps me build and which is so hard for me to feel.
i keep hearing her saying those words, and why would she lie? She did say "I love you very much". Why would she lie if it weren't true? I've known her for 7 years...
sorry if i sound a little hurt....just a delicate topic for me
Frida
Posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 16:39:38
In reply to Whats the point..???????????????????????????????, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 13:51:23
That really hurts me to hear you see that. It is there job, but my T has reminded me many times that what we are doing is real, and our relationship is real. He tells me I haven't been filled up with good parenting in my life, and part of his helping me is to fill me up a little bit. How could he help me get some of that missing parenting if I didn't love him?
It is painful to me that it is only his job, but I also respect that a lot, maybe too much. He says that it's really great that I can say that I love him because it's a real feeling and before I would have just ignored it or not been able to say it.
It is a real relationship, even if it's his job.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 16:58:05
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » wishingstar, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 16:10:16
I just don't find that a very funny joke. I identify very much with frida's feelings. I don't want to lose the safety I feel with my T. Please be respectful of the deep connection some of us feel with our Ts. It really is not a subject to joke about for many people. I'm sorry you haven't felt a connection like that and don't understand.
sunnydays
Posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:13:40
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » gazo, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:21:09
i am very sorry frida.. i didn't mean to hurt your feelings at all. i never said she did lie. If you feel she loves you then that is what should matter, not what i think. i'm just trying to give my own thoughts.
again, i'm sorry frida. No hurt was meant.
Posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:28:09
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » gazo, posted by sunnydays on April 8, 2007, at 16:58:05
i do respect people here. i did not mean disrespect in my joke.
i never said it was wrong or that *you* shouldn't feel the way you do.
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 18:39:13
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » frida, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:13:40
HI everyone,
please allow me to say a huge big I AM SORRY FOR HURTING YOU, I REALLY DIDN'T MEAN ANYONE OF YOU ANY HARM....
PLEASE believe that i meant no disrespect whatsoever to your feelings...please allow me to apologise profusely for hurting you...
It was never my intention... i only wrote what i felt at the time, and that's what i felt...strongly enough about to reply to the original post and legitimately ask in a non judgemental way... ,,, "what is the point"? but that was just my own feling and thots on the matter...
it was NEVER EVER to disrespect anyones confessions of love to their therapists ... NEVER NEVER NEVER...as i love mine too... But I just couldn't see the point in how much i care about what she thinks of me when i know its just her job, and i'm not on her mind a fraction of the amount of time that she ...is on mine... ( i have observed how much others on this board also appear to be fixated, and obsessed with their therapists... i am simply questioning for myself, what is the point?
I never ever intended harm, distress, discomfort or any other negative thing to YOU... I hope you will forgive me...
Respectfully to all who have posted, and to all who may have felt offended who have not posted but may have read .... I apologise again..!
Happy Easter...! I hope you can forgive me. Thank you
Scentedgarden.
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 8, 2007, at 18:55:30
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » gazo, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 16:21:09
Hi, Frida. I totally agree with you -- I could not pay my T enough money for her to stick around through some of the things I've put her through. Your relationship with your T sounds very similar. In my opinion, my T finished raising me and did a much better job than my parents. I pay her because everyone has to have money to live, but if she didn't care, there are a lot of other things she could do for probably more money and less hassle. I'm not saying that's true across the board, but I do think it's true of a majority of good Ts. Who would want to sit and listen to people's pain hour after hour, day after day, if they didn't care about those people?
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:05:56
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » frida, posted by TherapyGirl on April 8, 2007, at 18:55:30
Hi,
thanks for your post. It sounds you have a similar relationship. I also have put her through so many painful things and moments. She has even acknowledged this, and told me how I've made her feel frustrated, in doubt of her own capacity as a T, and many other things....because I've tested her trust sooooooo much and have really made her go through difficult moments.I also feel she has given me what my parents never did...she has told me things I ached to hear all my life..like she would have noticed and rescued me back then if she had had the chance..
and that I mattered, etc..She genuinely cares about my well-being.
I agree with what you say, they have to make a living, but if she didn't care she would have left me a long time ago. I pay her just a little, and I've made her feel really bad sometimes. But she's stuck with me.Unfortunately there are bad T's out there...but I agree that I think good T's do feel differently about this.
Thank you for your message, it helped :-)
Frida
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:11:22
In reply to Re: Whats the point..????? **possible trigger** » frida, posted by gazo on April 8, 2007, at 17:13:40
that's okay, I understand your feelings and your opinion, too...it's just a very delicate, sensitive topic..
and it is really, really hard for me to believe her and to feel worth enough..for her to care about me...that's why I try to hang on to her words even if I have trouble sometimes believing it or internalizing things.
It's just taken us years to get to a point where I can believe her when she says I love you very much, and it even hurts her feelings when I treat her as a stranger or don't honour the bond we've built. She'd tell me to think about everything we've been together and what she tells me and how she has given me so much of her soul in these 7 years.
maybe some bad T's who aren't committed to their work do harm, I am so sorry that you feel it's not real...
It's just hard to hear because some of us have spent years trying to believe it is real..and it's taken a lot of tears, pain, hard work on our part and our T's too...
that's why it's such a delicate issue.I've never trusted anyone as much as I trust my T, and she's helped me feel hope again when I had lost it completely.
it's a delicate issue...
thanks for your post,
Frida
Posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:18:51
In reply to Sincere apologies 4 causing distress 2 all of you, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 18:39:13
hi,
it truly is ok, it is okay that you expressed your thoughts and feelings and I hear how hurt you are.I am just so sorry you feel this way.
I just don't agree with "it's just her job"...
and I don't think a lot of people are "obsessed" with their therapists..
I am just sad for you that you feel it this way.It's a hard topic..
but in my personal case, (as i know many others feel), I love my T deeply, as a mother...(I was abused as a child by my father). She has given me the kind of acceptance, love, safety and caring I had never received.
And she's reassured me our relationship is real, and the love we feel *is* mutual, even though her role is to help me and guide me through this.
I know she thinks of me outside sessions, because she cares...she often comes and tells me she has watched a movie, or read a book, or listened to something that made her think of me, she tells me that seeing 7year old children sometimes moves her because she sees me in them and all the pain I still hide inside from that part of me, she reads my letters, watches a movie that I tell her or reads a book if I tell her it was important to me...and this she does outside our T time.If it weren't for the T relationship and her love and caring, I would have just given up. It has sustained me. She's given me safety.
That is the point for me....it is really life-changing for me and being able to receive unconditional love without having to get hurt and being able to trust someone after your trust has been shattered in such a horrible way, it is really deep.
I am sorry your T has let you down in a way. I'm sorry you feel this way.
Happy easter to you too :-)
love,
Frida
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 20:38:12
In reply to Re: Sincere apologies 4 causing distress 2 all of you » Scentedgarden, posted by frida on April 8, 2007, at 19:18:51
I am not saying that what we feel for them isnt real... feelings are feelings.... noone loves their therapist anymore then i love mine... im just saying what I said and i aint explaining it all again. .but pls, im not in a position that i want anyone feeling sad for me... i have as much love for my t as anyone on here....
all i felt like sayin g at the time is whats the point in getting all choked up about how we tell them and so on and so forth... as i doubt very much that they sit at home thinking about us... so in that respect if you read thru the archives of this board over the yrs day in and day out people are for want of a better word obsessed with their therapist... if thats difficult for anyone to read then maybe its cos it hits a chord with them ….i dont know.... im just being subjective… I don’t mean to hit chords but I cant please everyone here…I speak from myself only and I have been obsessed to a certain degree… depending on how you look at it… but if someone is on your mind and you count the days to see them and you think about them constantly and cant live without them …I wonder if that isn’t obsessed then you tell me what the heck is> lol….laughing now!
I never said it isnt real feelings... but they don’t come to us for love do they? they have other people to do that feeling with in their life... That's what i mean by keeping it real.. we are not out therapists friends...! we are not their children, and we are not their spouse. or sister or ever will be...that's all im saying
yes it precious ....yes its special....!!! I agree with all the positive things …. ITS VERY SPECIAL..VERY VERY OPRECIOUS<<<< I TOO WOULD NOT BE HERE WITHOUT THE RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH MINE>>>>> SO PLS DON’T MISINTERPRET ME>>> ALL I ASKED WAS, what’s the point?
i speak for myself when i say that.... and anyone who feels deeply for their therapist... im just saying what i said and i aint analysing it any fecking more... i gotta right to have my say just as much as anyone on here... yes i ry to be supportive... but is supportive always to molly coddle people... ive been told on here before flat out things that have hurt me when i confessed my feelings for my therapist and i took it on the chin....
im not taking away from the fact we love them... im just saying what i said about ..and i wont say sorry or explain it anymore...dont be sad for me... im fine thanks....dont think you know me cos i write a few posts here...everything is open to interpretation... and i just felt like saying what i said.... i wanted someone to show me the answer... it was a challenge for you all to tell me what the point it... it wasn't a negative thing... unless its interpreted negatively.... and i have no control over how the readers interpret the posts....
But I was looking for some positive feedback...for someone to take the challenge mentally and emotionally and in their heart and tell me what they think about the love flow from therapist to patient...to show me the point...
I wasn’t dissing the point.. i was genuinely asking for people to share with me the positives of it all...i have my own ideas ...on the positives of it all but i just wanted to hear yours too.... away i guess i shouldn't expect anyone to understand what the feck am talking about ... why would you its all subjective.... so lets not even bother to try ...im tired with this now... i think I'll have a break from the boards as well for a while... Good wishes to all who know me and who like me and to those who don't... i wish you all a happy week ahead with your comings and goings and your therapy sessions... THANK YOU ALL FOR CARING
take care bye bye
sg
Posted by antigua on April 8, 2007, at 20:41:56
In reply to Sincere apologies 4 causing distress 2 all of you, posted by Scentedgarden on April 8, 2007, at 18:39:13
Hi,
I went through a phase with my T, where I would hit her hard, and often, and not so nicely, with "it's just your job, you don't really care."For me, and I'm only saying me, it took me a while to figure out that this was a defense mechanism I was using from letting her in. I didn't (and I still don't to some extent) realize how hurtful this was to her until she explained. Just shutting her out when we have been working so closely together for so long, why would I do that? I know it's just her job, but our relationship is so much more than that. I have a real problem with this, as I said I use it shut her out. But this is only me, it's like the ultimate depersonalization I can use on her. "You don't really care, it's just your job."
Sorry, I'm rambling, too much food today. Just wanted to say that I understand your feeling, but maybe there's something behind it too.
antigua
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