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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 29 to 53 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger* » daisym, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:40:10
I don't know what is wrong with me but I am so mad and sad about what happened to me. Why now? I have no idea. I don't know if it is doing all the good stuff for my self lately made me realize on how I was not really living before. My parents really messed me up and I guess I am now seeing it more than ever. I guess I feel like I am grieving my childhood.
I worked out today, hard, but it didn't take away the anger. I have been crying too, and it is not helping.
I am glad I have a session tommorow with my T. It is going to be one emotional day for me, I hope he can help me through this. He hasn't ever seen me this upset before. What my parents did was so evil and just wrong. I need to get over this if it is possiable. :(
Posted by antigua on July 24, 2005, at 11:26:02
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
Sounds to me like you're grieving for what you never had, which is a really good thing.
You are very brave,
antigua
Posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 13:39:30
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
happyflower...
As antigua said, you ARE so brave. Who knows why this stuff comes up when it does, but I'm so glad you're working through it. I'm glad you have a session tomorrow. Working out, crying...well, to me it sounds like a positive start.
You sound like a wonderful mother. Your children are so lucky. Be so proud of yourself...heck, I'M proud of you!
I did not experience overt abuse in my family, but there was a lot of subtle psychological abuse. My mom would always say to me, "If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have had kids." Very much like what you said in your first few posts, "How can someone do that? Say that? To a child? To her face?" My T. says there are a lot of things I chose not to understand, and now I'm trying to understand them. But this one, I'm stuck.
My pdoc suggested a book to me, "The Narcissistic Family," which talks about "overt and covert" abuse. It's an eye-opener.
You are doing such good work. Give those kids another hug and let it come back to you.
Take good care, you are so strong.
spalding
> I don't know what is wrong with me but I am so mad and sad about what happened to me. Why now? I have no idea. I don't know if it is doing all the good stuff for my self lately made me realize on how I was not really living before. My parents really messed me up and I guess I am now seeing it more than ever. I guess I feel like I am grieving my childhood.
> I worked out today, hard, but it didn't take away the anger. I have been crying too, and it is not helping.
> I am glad I have a session tommorow with my T. It is going to be one emotional day for me, I hope he can help me through this. He hasn't ever seen me this upset before. What my parents did was so evil and just wrong. I need to get over this if it is possiable. :(
Posted by pinkeye on July 24, 2005, at 13:56:09
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
Hi HF !!
Nice to see you back. I am sorry about what happened the other day with my thread.. (I will work out that later with you. But breifly, there are huge differences between our situations - I am an adult, and you were a child when the abuse happened.. I know my chances, the risks that I am taking, I can judge my husband, how far he would go, and I can go to other people or stay by myself in the worst case which was not the case with you. Any time I think my husband is becoming a real danger to me, I will leave him the next moment - ok?? I hope that puts your mind at ease a little bit.. I think he is a good person basically, and that he would get better with time and effort and there is still lot of hope for me - which was not the case with your mother.)
I read all your posts - I feel so bad for you, that you had to go through all that as a child. Childhood is for being innocent, and experience all the pleasant things in the world, and being loved unconditionally.. I am really sorry that was taken away from you so badly. I wish I could go back and get hold of your mother and put some sense into her, and make her understand what she is doing to you.. And I am also in awe of you and my regards for you is so huge that you turned it all around and made your life and your kids life such a beautiful thing. It really takes a lot of inhert goodness and worth in a person to be able to do that. And I really see that in you.You are never wrong in writing here anything ... You know I have written things here myself.. This board is one bunch of amazingly understanding and compassionate people - and there is never a No for anything. I hope you allow yourself to get all the support you will get here.
Of course you are sad and angry - who wouldn't be when they go through all this torture in childhood??
What your mother did - you didn't deserve. Any of it. What she did was out of her own psychological complications.. her own life being screwed up in some way by some one in her lift.. and it has nothing to do with you. You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak. And your mother would probably have been better, if she could have had some counselling or some emotional support and was able to work through HER problems with some one. In all likelihood, she didn't know or understand enough to seek help. And she took it out all on you, you being the helpless little thing in her hands.. But you are not the one to blame.. You were just a helpless and little child. And she, if she was a little bit of a decent human beign, would have understood that.. But she didn't. Which says a lot about her poor character. And you are right to break away from her and not let her interfere in your life anymore.
I hope that you can work through it with the help of your T and support here in babble, and that you will one day completely heal from the pain and sadness, and that you will come to understand that what happened was the outcome of a mentally sick individual trying to cope up with the world in the way she knew, and that she is just one out of a billion people, and that the world is not that way for the most part. And that you will receive plenty of warmth and support and love all that you deserve for being such a wonderful person that you are from others.
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 14:20:32
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger*, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 18:54:55
>
> Why do people judge me when I say I don't have a relationship with my mother? What the heck did I ever do? Not all mothers are meant to be mothers. Some mothers are very evil.Happy, I'm just so sorry about all of this. You never had a "mother". You're a mother to your beautiful children, but she never mothered you sweetie.
If you're talking to people who know her, it's just none of their business. If you're talking to people who don't, you could say you don't have a mother, or that she's dead.
FW/Jazzy
Posted by Daisym on July 24, 2005, at 16:33:07
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
Happy --
Thanks for your response. I was concerned after I posted that you would misinterpret what I was trying to sort out, like my experiences were some how "worse" or "better" than your experiences.
I've been researching grief and child abuse for a long time now. When I first started working in therapy, I assumed I was depressed. I told several therapist I met that if I was screening myself, I would have referred me to mental health services, starring the "depressive symptoms" box. My therapist agreed that I had the symptoms but he pointed to a convergence of both a mid-life, existential crisis as well as deep grief that was boiling up, having been reactivated by my son's struggles. In discussing treatment options, he did offer that we could medicate the symptoms and in all likelihood I would feel better and go back to functioning in a similar manner. And crash again in a year, or two or five. But he warned that sorting through all of the "stuff" -- past, present and future, would be painful and it would take awhile. He said I needed to give myself room to grieve because the grief was forcing its way out anyway.
One of the articles I found talks about the "Dark Night of the Soul" and what a huge task it is to recover from childhood abuse:
"Those who grew up with severe abuse or neglect have a lifetime of inner work to do before they feel whole, healed, and complete. Child abuse/neglect causes a state that I call “The Void,” which is a giant emptiness inside. When I ask adult survivors of abuse to visualize themselves at the edge of an abyss, they will see and experience a bottomless pit that is as wide as the Grand Canyon. Out of the void arises addiction, feelings of emptiness, a feeling as if one is never living on solid ground, and a profound depression that can provoke suicidal thoughts and acts."These people suffer tremendously emotionally. Over the years, psychiatrists will treat them with every category of psychiatric medication. Medications rarely work, and when they do, the effect is usually short-lived. It would take too long to explain the biology of this, but it is easy to explain the symbolism. If you throw a pill of Paxil into the Grand Canyon, what is the impact on the Grand Canyon going to be? Nothing. When we treat adult survivors of abuse with anti-depressants, we are essentially trying to heal the great abyss with a tiny pill. It does not work.
"Whether you are questioning the meaning in life, having an existential crisis, or a Dark Night of the Soul, your experience should not be confused with Clinical Depression. You do not want to short-circuit this process with medication any more than you want to abort the grief process with medication. In both situations, medication will ultimately lead to genuine depression, the exact thing it is intended to treat. You cannot treat “meaning” with a drug. Nor can you accelerate your expansion of consciousness, your spiritual awareness, with medication.
"Before you can find the light at the end of the tunnel, you must first determine which tunnel you are walking through. " --By David Gersten, M.D.
Framing the work this way helped me change my expectations a tiny bit. I think the medications are important for keeping the symptoms manageable but it helped me to know that I couldn't expect to find a medication to take away all the pain. And it helps to think about grieving all of this. I don't agree with all, or maybe even half, of what Dr. Gersten writes about. But it made sense to me that I needed to grieve what I didn't get as well as what I did get and then figure out how to regulate it as part of my history, not the predictor of my future happiness.
I wish I was in a place to BELIEVE everything I've just written. But I believe it for others and I'm trying hard to follow one of the basic tenants of grieving - take each day as it comes and get through it the best you come. Eventually the nights won't be so long and you won't count how many minutes until this day is done and over. It is a process, as Billy Crystal says. And that means sometimes you are up and sometimes down. I wish this was an up time for you.
Posted by Shortelise on July 24, 2005, at 16:52:33
In reply to What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger*, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 18:02:55
HF,
It seems to me that you are in the full throes of therapy, that you are looking in the hard places, and feeling things that are not easy to feel. It's part of the process, as we all seem to say here at one time or another, and it will get better.
You'll be ok.Love
ShortE
Posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 16:58:54
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » happyflower, posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 13:39:30
Once again, thanks for all the support, it has really helped especailly since my DH was out of town. Now he has back, he held me while I cried my eyes out and told him what I was feelings.
Several months ago when EMDR uncovered some memories of abuse that I have surpressed for years, I had to come to terms of yes, I was abused. I never wanted to admit that because if I was abused I would some how be a damaged person. Who wants to be with a damaged person? It also helped me not go into a downward spirle and really be depressed and not do anything with my life. Keeping those feeling surpressed helped me achieve the success that I do have. But with the EMDR, it brought it all out. Now I am "safe" to deal with those memories.
Well I am not sure, but this is how it feels, I feel like I am now grieving my childhood, my young adult life where I didn't live out my potential, and the wrong choices I have made because of all of what happend in my childhood. I am very angry but also very sad. I think the fact that I have been starting to "live", it made me realize that I wasn't living before, only surviving. I really feel sad, like someone died, and I am going to their funeral. The funeral is for me, my childhood which was lost. That part of me has died. I can't change it, but I think I can maybe appreciate my life more, and really live, not just survive.
What are you thoughts about this? Is this a process or somthing that I am going through? I am glad I see my T tommorrow, I want to know what he thinks too. Thanks guys again. I need to make dinner, and my family is going to one of those free concerts in the park. Life always goes on, maybe a better life for me someday. :)
Posted by pinkeye on July 24, 2005, at 19:50:01
In reply to My childhood died, maybe a good thing, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 16:58:54
You are a wonderful survivor... I really admire your living capacity.. !!.
Posted by muffled on July 24, 2005, at 23:45:47
In reply to I am so angry and sad, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 9:54:49
> I don't know what is wrong with me but I am so mad and sad about what happened to me. Why now? I have no idea. I don't know if it is doing all the good stuff for my self lately made me realize on how I was not really living before. My parents really messed me up and I guess I am now seeing it more than ever. I guess I feel like I am grieving my childhood.
> I worked out today, hard, but it didn't take away the anger. I have been crying too, and it is not helping.
> I am glad I have a session tommorow with my T. It is going to be one emotional day for me, I hope he can help me through this. He hasn't ever seen me this upset before. What my parents did was so evil and just wrong. I need to get over this if it is possiable. :(There is good in the world and there is evil. There is hurt and there is healing. I wonder how your moms mom was like? Not that it matters, evil is evil. It gives me such hope that aperson can go thru what you did and still be so nice. You have light inside you, how wonderful. In a way I pity the people full of darkness. If I had to choose, I'd choose to have light inside me and be tortured than to be the evil one. Your mother will get whats comming to her one day. I believe that.
Posted by B2chica on July 25, 2005, at 10:21:20
In reply to sorry about this post, maybe I should just shut up, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 20:07:35
i actually liked what you wrote. you expressed it very well. it's what you felt, questions you have, NEVER be sorry for questions or for looking for answers Especially answers to help you heal.
(fyi. my mother did the same sink or swimm with me, luckily i did bob to the top.)
and i like both flowers. their the same and you and others sharing is the reason i come babble. help resolve my own issues, know i'm not alone, vent, cry, get support and give it.
(((((HUGS))))) happy AND abused flower.
b2c.> I think people rather have happyflower around instead of abusedflower. I don't mean to bring everyone down with my stories of my past.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 12:27:37
In reply to What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger*, posted by happyflower on July 23, 2005, at 18:02:55
I have no idea what goes through their minds while they are doing it.
It boggles the mind.
My father was much like your mother. Not quite as bad, but that's largely because he spent a lot of time ignoring us.
>>>How can they not remember any of this years later? They say, I don't know what I have done? I don't know why my kids don't talk to me?
They know. They just don't want to admit it, or they justify it as 'tough love' or somehow rationalize that it was ok. But they know.
Are they sorry? They are sorry that the world knows you won't be around them. Sometimes they even say they are sorry. But keep your kids away, or supervise them at all times because it's likely they won't change.
Your therapist is right. Keep away, certainly until you are strong enough to know her for what she is and not turn it back on yourself.
>>>Why do people judge me when I say I don't have a relationship with my mother?
It's their problem. Tell them she doesn't deserve a relationship.
>>>>>I think people rather have happyflower around instead of abusedflower.
I'm hearing angryflower, and rightly so.
So, back to your statement:>>>>My T says she is paying, by not having me or my brother in her life or her grandkids. But sometimes it just doesn't seem like it is payment enough.
Your therapist is right, but it's more than that. You have wonderful kids and are working to get past this and have a great life. Success is the best revenge.
And if she meets the same fate as my father, she will die a lonely old woman.
Posted by antigua on July 25, 2005, at 15:24:31
In reply to My childhood died, maybe a good thing, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 16:58:54
This is all a huge trigger for me. Part of me is so jealous that you've gotten to things that have taken me years to realize!! I'm glad for you, but oh it's so painful.
I think you're right about the grieving. Maybe you should honor it with a little ceremony of some kind--light a candle and let the old part go, something like that.
it's painful, I know, but you're doing great,
antigua
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:27:43
In reply to Re: sorry about this post, maybe I should just shu » happyflower, posted by B2chica on July 25, 2005, at 10:21:20
> i actually liked what you wrote. you expressed it very well. it's what you felt, questions you have, NEVER be sorry for questions or for looking for answers Especially answers to help you heal.
>
> (fyi. my mother did the same sink or swimm with me, luckily i did bob to the top.)
>
> and i like both flowers. their the same and you and others sharing is the reason i come babble. help resolve my own issues, know i'm not alone, vent, cry, get support and give it.
> (((((HUGS))))) happy AND abused flower.
> b2c.
>
Thank you B2c! You are so sweet and kind and thanks for the hugs! How are you doing by the way?
> > I think people rather have happyflower around instead of abusedflower. I don't mean to bring everyone down with my stories of my past.
>
>
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:32:51
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger » happyflower, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 12:27:37
> >
> My father was much like your mother. Not quite as bad, but that's largely because he spent a lot of time ignoring us.Wow, it seems like we have a lot in common. (unfortunatly)
>
> >>>>My T says she is paying, by not having me or my brother in her life or her grandkids. But sometimes it just doesn't seem like it is payment enough.
>
> Your therapist is right, but it's more than that. You have wonderful kids and are working to get past this and have a great life. Success is the best revenge.
>
> And if she meets the same fate as my father, she will die a lonely old woman.
>
Thanks Auntie! I think she will meet the same fate, but I really don't care! My T asked me one time what I would do if my mom was on her death bed and called to talk to me. I told him I would send her congratuations ballons. I know that sounds mean, but I will be happy when she is gone. I don't have to worry about my family or my kids.
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:36:49
In reply to Re: My childhood died, maybe a good thing » happyflower, posted by antigua on July 25, 2005, at 15:24:31
> This is all a huge trigger for me. Part of me is so jealous that you've gotten to things that have taken me years to realize!! I'm glad for you, but oh it's so painful.
I am sorry this is triggering you, I too have read stuff that brings me right back to my stuff.
Please don't be jeolous of me, just believe in yourself. I am 35 yrs old, so it did take me quit awhile to figure all this out, and I still am learning. Maybe going through all this pain will make us such strong people for something good in the world.
> I think you're right about the grieving. Maybe you should honor it with a little ceremony of some kind--light a candle and let the old part go, something like that.I never thought about that, what a great idea! Thanks!
>
> it's painful, I know, but you're doing great,
> antiguaI hope you do well with your journey too. It is so hard but I am hoping there will be something good that comes out of it all. :)
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:40:00
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 24, 2005, at 13:56:09
Thank you pinkeye for everything you have written. I am okay with you if you are okay with me. I just overreacted and I am sorry. This is something I am working on in therapy. I do care about you , maybe too much, because I got too upset. But I am okay. I had therapy today, and my T said it is good what I am feeling, even though it is painful. It shows I am making progress. I hope he is right. I hope you are all right too!
Posted by pinkeye on July 25, 2005, at 19:02:02
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:40:00
I enjoy your posts, and I like you. And I feel protective of you for the most part.. So I feel like you are my kid - a kid who is 7 years elder than me, but nevertheless a great kid :-))
Posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 19:37:34
In reply to I am ok with you. You are like a kid to me !! :-) » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 25, 2005, at 19:02:02
Posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2005, at 8:44:02
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind *trigger, posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:32:51
I thought I would be happy when my father went.
But when it happened I wasn't happy - or sad. It was like reading the obit of a stranger in the newspaper. I just didn't care one way or the other.
Here's hope that you get to that place, too.
Posted by antigua on July 26, 2005, at 10:21:07
In reply to Re: My childhood died, maybe a good thing » antigua, posted by happyflower on July 25, 2005, at 18:36:49
Good try happyflower, but I'm older than you are!!
thanks for your kindness,
antigua
Posted by 64bowtie on July 26, 2005, at 11:46:50
In reply to Re: What goes through a child abuser mind » 64bowtie, posted by happyflower on July 24, 2005, at 7:08:50
> Thank you Rod for answering my what I thought was a "unanswerable" question. I am not sure if you mean by "conflict", you mean something inside her head, or something I was doing to cause conflict. >
>
<<< I need to thank you for connecting... Please consider that by tomorrow's standards, none of this will be your problem...We all average about 20 conflicts in our daily lives, most are incipiant at best... When one of the folks involved gets impatient, they up the ante by going 'postal' and somebody gets hurt by their violence... Your question about 'in her head' implies thought... You are probably ignoring feelings, behaviors and intentions... So if you watch and listen, the perpetrator will always let you know what they feel, how they are behaving (or not) and what their intentions are...
In order to protect yourself from these punks, PERCEIVE MORE AND BELIEVE LESS!!! Your knowledge of what's going on in real time will save you, eventually!!!
The story you relate may be about the past, however, you can share these principles with your children so they can protect themselves from jerks they get confronted by in their lives... They also can discover better and better conflict resolution techniques that will serve them in their futures... Mostly, bad conflict resolution strategies are only a result of a collection of bad habits I call dysfunction... Eliminate the bad habits, you release extra time for studying your life for the sake of better solutions...
...and you are only 35-36, you got lotsa time for getting good at this stuff, toooo!!!
Rod
Posted by happyflower on July 26, 2005, at 13:27:41
In reply to » happyflower » Conflict etal, posted by 64bowtie on July 26, 2005, at 11:46:50
I do believe that since I grew up in an abusive home, I was always precieving the atmosphere of what was going on. Almost hypersensitive to everything around me. I "read" people very well as a reason to protect myself. My instincts are almost always right on about people. But the sad thing is that I tend to "overprotect" myself and I miss out on potential realationships that might be okay to have.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2005, at 23:14:53
In reply to Re: I am so angry and sad » happyflower, posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 13:39:30
> My pdoc suggested a book to me, "The Narcissistic Family," which talks about "overt and covert" abuse. It's an eye-opener.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by 64bowtie on July 27, 2005, at 1:02:55
In reply to Re: » 64bowtie, posted by happyflower on July 26, 2005, at 13:27:41
> I "read" people very well as a reason to protect myself. My instincts are almost always right on about people. >
><<< I applaud your acceptance of your intuition as useful to any life strategy you employ... And you are smart enough to accept this heightened awareness as a defense mechanism... Not Bad! ...and useful!
Rod
This is the end of the thread.
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