![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2005, at 22:50:50
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by messadivoce on July 1, 2005, at 20:49:22
I echo what Voce said. IF you do decide to stop (and I think I'm hearing that you don't really want that...) please do give a lot of thought to going through it "properly", so to speak. That's not the right word, but...I mean, can you imagine the irony with all of us agreeing on how T's should be SO careful about abrupt or sudden-anythings about stopping contact...and then we get so emotional one day, we try to do it to ourselves! I've been so close, several times....
I don't mean, "HF, go take care of your T's feelings like he should take care of yours," no, no. Because you NEVER have to focus on that - not your job. We try to be civil and kind to them - but only to a point. I think if he's as good as he seems, he'll certainly understand *impulsive quitting.* Many posters here have done it - it's part of the process for some.
You must feel so bad, though. Mad and confused and silly and resentful you have to go through this... (((hf))) let us help through the weekend,okay?
But I wonder if this might turn out to be a HUGE step in moving therapy forward. Can't pin it down, but something about the tone of your first post made me feel like there's something underneath here, something important from RL to hash out...not to mention he HASN't given you enough justification for the "liar" thing.
I'll bet the phone call had other stuff we can't imagine going on before and after it for him, too.
Because isn't him being short, cold or anything like it out of whack for his demeanor as your T.?You hang in there and try not to jump to conclusions...that thinking can cause a ton of pain when really, what we fear isn't even close to the truth...at least find out fact-to-face first, what the truth is...gosh have I been there with 2 T's, and usually, they weren't feeling any bad stuff toward me at all... have hope...I do ! :-)
Posted by daisym on July 1, 2005, at 23:54:02
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2005, at 22:50:50
I agree with Tender, I wish I could say it as well! We've all done the pull away thing, both on voice mail and in person. I'm sorry he didn't get back to you today, I bet he was swamped and/or leaving early. For all you know, his secretary didn't get the messages to him...maybe SHE left early. But my best guess is that you didn't ask him to call back, so he is giving you some space. (You didn't, did you? Sorry if I assumed this. )
I also know that different therapists react differently to clients who quit. Most wait for the client to contact them and ask to meet again. It depends on conversations you might have had around this kind of thing. I'm sure he doesn't want an apology from you. I'd bet that if you called and said, "I want my appointment back" you would get it and then he would want to know why you felt the need to take such a strong stance. Mine would ask me if I was testing him and he would be OK with me doing that.
And I seriously doubt he thought you were "bugging him" with too many phone calls. Obviously you are upset and he would expect multiple calls until you felt calmer. Or at least mine would. Calling is tricky, again it depends on the individual therapist. But mine has always insisted that he wants to prevent a melt down if possible instead of trying to mop up the puddle. You should ask him to ease your mind.
I'm sorry it is a long weekend. I hear your stress and sadness. Have faith that it will work out.
Hugs to you,
Daisy
Posted by Jen Star on July 2, 2005, at 0:12:12
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 17:47:02
Pinkeye,
as always I think your advice is right on the money! :) I agree with you about phone calls. It's so hard to dissect someone's tone, attitude, and wants from a phone call. I think it sometimes can put us at a definite disadvantage, esp. if we are the kind of people who analyze everthing. I know I am one of those people -- I'm ALWAYS reading into people's tones, inflections, etc.I hope you're well.
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Jen Star on July 2, 2005, at 0:13:55
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
hi happyflower,
I'm sure that your T doesn't feel that way about you! You're a great person and you're worth so much more than you give yourself credit for. Hopefully he'll realize how upset he's made you, and reach out to close the gap. I hope you two can work past this and continue therapy -- good, non-lying therapy, that is!Do you think that an explanation from him about the lying comment would help you feel trust for him again?
take care, and have a good weekend if you can! :)
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2005, at 9:47:55
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
I quit maybe seven, maybe more, times in the first five years of therapy. My therapist says he learned all he knows about how to treat a terminating client from me.
He usually called and asked to have a "final" session. And he usually called within a day or two.
But I'm sure they vary widely on this.
In general, if you want a return phone call, you have to say so. We would all like them to *know* that of course we want a return phone call. If we're upset enough to call them, of course we want them to call back. But either they're stubborn or dense and they won't. I think they want us to take responsibility for that.
What I would do, and what I have done, is to call him and tell him I would like to talk about everything with him, and could he call to schedule an appointment.
It might be a bit trickier since it's a holiday weekend.
My therapist never held it against me that I quit. Not openly anyway. It took him a few years after I quit quitting to really trust that I wouldn't do it again. In fact, I'm still not sure he doesn't trust me not to do it.
But he always took me back, graciously.
I think most therapists are used to this. It's not all that uncommon. I think therapists that refuse to take a client back are rare.
Now, I did have a pdoc who refused to take me back. But I had only seen him three times when I quit. (Of course, it was the blasted Wellbutrin he had me on that made me agitated enough to quit.)
It'll be ok Happyflower. And obviously you have something you need to talk to him about. It will be good to clear the air.
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:07:37
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2005, at 9:47:55
By the way, if you ever want a card that says you are sorry, GOOD LUCK, there are very few.
Well I found a cute card that had a sad bassit hound on the front that said, I need you. Then inside it says, I am a bassit-case without you. (like basket case). This was the best I could come up with, I think it will make him laugh. I told him I was sorry that I overreacted to my anger against him. (it still says I am angry, but that I went over board). I asked him if he will continue to work with me. I promised that I won't "bite". lol I hope he sees some humor in that because I sure bit a piece of his a*S off the other day. lol I hope he will take me back, what do you think? I know he likes me, but he knows I am a PITA. He even admitted it to me, in different words, but still the same meaning. Wish me luck!
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 12:11:41
In reply to I sent him a card today :), posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:07:37
Don't worry about it. Most therapists want us to take responsibility for all our actions, and the reason why he didn't call you back was perhaps he wanted you to own your decision of going to therapy. He probably thought it is good for you to think it through and figure it out yourself.
And he definitely will not make an issue out of this, and perhaps will just want to know why you were promtpted to take such an action. You can then use that session to explore more about yourself.
Most of us have done this in the past including me!!!. My ex T of course would never apologize without me trying to understand things first by myself.
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:25:11
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2005, at 22:50:50
> I echo what Voce said. IF you do decide to stop (and I think I'm hearing that you don't really want that...) >
You are right I really don't want to quit, I overreacted. I hope he will take me back. I would be really sad, if he deceides I am too much of a pain.
> You must feel so bad, though. Mad and confused and silly and resentful you have to go through this... (((hf))) let us help through the weekend,okay?
Yes, you said my feelings exactly. It kinda makes me crazy that I have to have some responsibilty with me and my T's relationship with all the other stuff I have to deal with. But I guess this is like a "practice realationship", so I hope the fact that I have appolized, it means that I am not a complete jerk.
> But I wonder if this might turn out to be a HUGE step in moving therapy forward. Can't pin it down, but something about the tone of your first post made me feel like there's something underneath here, something important from RL to hash out...not to mention he HASN't given you enough justification for the "liar" thing.
I think you might be right, I don't know what, but I do think you are on to something. Usually I make big strides in therapy after I have a fall out. I still think he shouldn't ever tell a client he is a good liar though. I think he realizes maybe it was a big mistake, because look how I reacted. I bet we will think twice before he ever says that again! lol> I'll bet the phone call had other stuff we can't imagine going on before and after it for him, too.
Yup, I can imagine him saying "up yours lady" when he got my message. I told him that he let me down. He won't admit I pissed him off or made him feel bad, but you know it does happen. They aren't invensible against their own feelings. I know he really like me, and I know he really wants to help me, but sometimes I must make him shake his head and say "What the ?" lol
> Because isn't him being short, cold or anything like it out of whack for his demeanor as your T.?
Yes, he normally keeps his conversations business like and short on the phone, but this time it seemed like he took what I said personally. But normally he doesn't act cold to my calls. He told me I could call whenever I really needed to talk to him, so I know he isn't upset that I called him. I have even asked him this before, and he said not to worry about it, it is his job.> .. have hope...I do ! :-)
Thanks fo your hope, and support. I love that way you write things, it is like it comes straight from your heart!. Thanks!
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:27:41
In reply to He most certainly will take you back !! » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 12:11:41
Thank you Pinkeye, I hope you are right! :)
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:33:55
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by daisym on July 1, 2005, at 23:54:02
> I agree with Tender, I wish I could say it as well!
I wish I could write like Tender too, she is so good at expressing herself!
But my best guess is that you didn't ask him to call back, so he is giving you some space. (You didn't, did you? Sorry if I assumed this. )
I didn't ask him to call me back, at the time I didn't even want to talk to him! I think you are right, we both need space !
>
>
> And I seriously doubt he thought you were "bugging him" with too many phone calls. Obviously you are upset and he would expect multiple calls until you felt calmer. Or at least mine would. Calling is tricky, again it depends on the individual therapist. But mine has always insisted that he wants to prevent a melt down if possible instead of trying to mop up the puddle. You should ask him to ease your mind.When I called him the first 2 times, I asked him if it was okay. He told me to call him when I need him, he must be like your T , it is okay with him. He said it was part of his job.
>
> I'm sorry it is a long weekend. I hear your stress and sadness. Have faith that it will work out.Thank you Daisy for the encouragement and hugs, it means a lot! Have a good weekend yourself!
>
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:39:31
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Jen Star on July 2, 2005, at 0:13:55
> hi happyflower,
> I'm sure that your T doesn't feel that way about you! You're a great person and you're worth so much more than you give yourself credit for. Hopefully he'll realize how upset he's made you, and reach out to close the gap. I hope you two can work past this and continue therapy -- good, non-lying therapy, that is!Thank you , that was sweet for you to say! :) I think he has realized how upset I am, don't you think? lol I hope he doesn't give up on me, and lets me have another chance.
> Do you think that an explanation from him about the lying comment would help you feel trust for him again?
Yes, I don't think his explanation was good enough. I think a T should never tell a client he is a good liar, ever. Even if he thinks it is funny or anything else. To me with trust issues, it is like telling a abuse survior he is good at hiting his wife. You know what i mean?
> take care, and have a good weekend if you can! :)
>
Thanks, I am going to have a bonfire in the back yard with my DH and kids. I feel better now since I sent him that card today. :)
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:43:17
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by daisym on July 1, 2005, at 23:54:02
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:50:33
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2005, at 9:47:55
> I quit maybe seven, maybe more, times in the first five years of therapy. My therapist says he learned all he knows about how to treat a terminating client from me.
So quiting isn't all that uncommon? I hope so, because I hope he takes me back as a client. Maybe your T should give you a discount for training him! lol
>
> Now, I did have a pdoc who refused to take me back. But I had only seen him three times when I quit. (Of course, it was the blasted Wellbutrin he had me on that made me agitated enough to quit.)I think this might have been part of the problem for me too. I take Sarafem(prozac) every 2 weeks for bad PMS. My family doctor told me I could try to go without it for a month, if I thought I didn't need it after my PTSD was better. Well I do still need it because I turn into a little beast without it.
> It'll be ok Happyflower. And obviously you have something you need to talk to him about. It will be good to clear the air.
Thanks Diane, I just hope he give me a chance to clear the air. Have a good weekend!
Posted by Poet on July 2, 2005, at 13:18:14
In reply to I sent him a card today :), posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:07:37
Hi Happyflower,
I like the card, bassit-case is very clever.
I quit therapy and went crawling back two weeks later. I told my T that if I quit, again, not to take me back. She said she couldn't agree to that. I hope yours feels the same way.
Poet
Posted by B2chica on July 2, 2005, at 16:20:40
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » Jazzed, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 21:37:58
> I really need some support right now. I think I might have over reacted with him, and now i feel bad.
doesn't matter who's right or wrong here. the fact is you had strong emotions and reactions to certain stimulus. i think it's important that you discuss this in session. maybe it's not about what you understood or misunderstood but about your emotional reaction. do you think it was over reacting? or was there a reason behind your feelings such as fear of betrayal, abandonment?? the fact of dumping him before he dismissed you?
maybe it's worth a conversation.
PLEASE take care of yourself and don't be hard on yourself for having the feelings you do. just learn to understand them.
lots of hugs
b2c.
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 17:15:41
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by B2chica on July 2, 2005, at 16:20:40
>
> doesn't matter who's right or wrong here. the fact is you had strong emotions and reactions to certain stimulus. i think it's important that you discuss this in session. maybe it's not about what you understood or misunderstood but about your emotional reaction. do you think it was over reacting? or was there a reason behind your feelings such as fear of betrayal, abandonment?? the fact of dumping him before he dismissed you?Yes I am angry with him, but how I handled the anger, was overreacting, at least that is what I am thinking. I am upset that he took my trust and confidence and squashed it like a bug. To me telling a client who has trust issues that he is a bad liar, is like him telling a victim of abuse that he is a good wife beater. I do plan on telling him how it made me feel for him to tell me that especially after it took me over 4 months to trust him. I don't think a T should ever disclose this about himself, it is for his wife and his mother to worry about, but not me! I should feel safe with him.
I feel much better after I sent him a card today saying I am sorry for the overreacting to my angry feelings. (it still says I am angry but I am sorry for the overreacting) Thanks for the hugs! How have you been? I have been wondering about you! Take care>
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 19:02:34
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » B2chica, posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 17:15:41
Posted by LadyBug on July 2, 2005, at 20:44:53
In reply to will my T take me back? whats your vote? (nm), posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 19:02:34
If he's a good T., absolutly he will!!!!!!!
I've quit a few times myself and where would I be if my T. didn't want me to come back? Lost and alone left to work out issues I need to work out with her.
Posted by Jazzed on July 2, 2005, at 21:10:29
In reply to Re: will my T take me back? whats your vote?, posted by LadyBug on July 2, 2005, at 20:44:53
> If he's a good T., absolutly he will!!!!!!!
>
> I've quit a few times myself and where would I be if my T. didn't want me to come back? Lost and alone left to work out issues I need to work out with her.I can't imagine why he wouldn't. You've worked through a lot with him. It's understandable when people react strongly to things, it's just part of being human. I think it's been a good relationship, and I think he'll not only "take you back", but never indicate you left.
Jazzy
Posted by GreySkyEyes on July 2, 2005, at 22:52:58
In reply to will my T take me back? whats your vote? (nm), posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 19:02:34
I'm sure he'll take you back! And it will be an interesting session with lots to talk about. :) Might even bring you closer.
About the lying thing... I agree, he never should have said that. But: my husband is an amazing liar. He has had me going so many times (in a joking way, nothing serious). There was a point when I thought, he could lie to me about something major and I would never know. So it all boils down to trust. Kinda like religion, you have to take that blind leap of faith. You just have to trust that, although he is a good liar, he would never do so with you.
~gse
Posted by Tamar on July 3, 2005, at 7:50:24
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
I’m sure he will take you back. I can’t see any reason not to.
There’s something about this whole story that I find quite uncomfortable: it’s that when he said he was a good liar he seemed to be contrasting himself with your husband. At least that’s the way I read it (maybe it didn’t happen like that). It seemed to me that you said your husband was a bad liar and your therapist responded with something like, “Well (unlike your husband) I’m a good liar.”
I was trying to imagine how I’d have felt if my therapist had said anything like that to me. I wonder if it would have been so upsetting if you’d been talking very generally without any mention of your husband. If you’d said you can always tell when salesmen are lying to you, and he’d then said, “Well, (unlike some salesmen) I’m a good liar,” maybe there wouldn’t have been such a strong contrast. It still would have been a pretty hard thing to take.
So maybe the immediate context of the thought of your husband was an issue for you? Or maybe I’m off the mark.
But I’m sure he’ll take you back because it does seem to be what people call a ‘therapeutic opportunity’.
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 12:40:57
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Tamar on July 3, 2005, at 7:50:24
> I’m sure he will take you back. I can’t see any reason not to.
I hope you are right, I never meant to quit.
> There’s something about this whole story that I find quite uncomfortable: it’s that when he said he was a good liar he seemed to be contrasting himself with your husband. At least that’s the way I read it (maybe it didn’t happen like that). It seemed to me that you said your husband was a bad liar and your therapist responded with something like, “Well (unlike your husband) I’m a good liar.”
Okay, this makes a lot of sense, but it is a thought I had much later. When T tried to explain what he meant, he said that perhaps my husband is lying and that I can't read him as well as I think. Well this is pertaining to if my husband is cheating on me. I don't know what is worse thinking my DH cheating on me or my T lying to me.Well when I entered therapy in Jan. I was living in a box with my family. So many people in my life has let me down and pooped on me that I was unable and didn't want to even try to trust anyone else.
But when things happened with my mother and I started to suffer from PTSD because of it, I knew I needed help.
The first thing I needed to learn was to trust my T. It took several months and little by little I came to trust him. It felt good and I saw the rewards in being with other people can bring. I know my T relationship isn't a personal one , but it was the closest thing to one that I have had in years.
Because of learning to trust him, it gave me convidence to pursue other people very slowly. He showed me that people can be good and maybe I can have faith in the human race again. I am talking on these boards, talking to strangers in the grocery store, and I am slowly learning how to be friend with a few neighboors because of this trust. I am much more "open" to people. Trusting my T has been my rock to lean on, especially since my current life is on the rocks like my marriage. But I am going on and still trying to do what I have learned in therapy. I learning to become a better more
rounded person.
Well in my last session he talked about termination and he said he was a good lier. I felt he was giving up on me, even when we are just getting to nitty gitty of things. The trust in my T is what gave me strength to change my life, now is he lying? It shook my safe place I felt I had with him, and make me question if everything he said was all lies to me. It shook my convidence in him. I need to be able to go to therapy and feel safe and trust him. I know in personal relationships you can't always count on this. But in a T relationship, is this something I should have to worry about? Shouldn't I feel safe to do my work with him?
I realize that he probably didn't see the weight of his words at the moment and how I would take them. I am sure he didn't mean to do this, I feel it was poor judgement on his part to use "himself" saying he is a bad liar especially with a client who has trust issues. If you can't trust your T , who can you trust? It would be like telling a client with a past history of abuse that he is good at hitting his wife. He should of used someone else as an example.
With my future so up in the air, I need to have a safe place where I don't have to worry if the other person is going to hurt me. My convidence in this has been shaken with him.
But one difference, when normally I would just end a relationship when someone did this to me, I am wanting to work this out with him. I am telling him I am sorry for overreacting to my anger and scared feelings. I guess I have built some trust in him, even though it is less now, I still want to work this out. He has let me down, and I told him this, I hope he will undertand this when or if I get a chance to see him again and explain it. My life is so much bettter since working with him, I would hate to start all over.
He has been able to get through to me when nobody else even came close. I don't think he knows what kind of impact he has had on my life. I plan on telling him this. It is hard for me to really open up, but he deserves to know how I really feel about what he has helped me change my life to be so much more rewarding then ever. I hope I get the chance to tell him this. :) I am feeling so nervous about it right now.
> But I’m sure he’ll take you back because it does seem to be what people call a ‘therapeutic opportunity’.
>
I hope so because I feel my emotions are pouring out of me. I need him, I hope he knows that.
Posted by Tamar on July 3, 2005, at 13:49:47
In reply to long post but it explains what I feel » Tamar, posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 12:40:57
> Okay, this makes a lot of sense, but it is a thought I had much later. When T tried to explain what he meant, he said that perhaps my husband is lying and that I can't read him as well as I think. Well this is pertaining to if my husband is cheating on me. I don't know what is worse thinking my DH cheating on me or my T lying to me.
I’m not entirely sure I understand. Was your T suggesting that your husband might be cheating on you without your knowledge? Was he intending to get you to think about whether you rely too much on being able to tell if people are lying in order to be able to trust them? Was he trying to encourage you to think of different ways of trusting people (e.g. trusting people on the basis of consistent behaviour)?
> Well when I entered therapy in Jan. I was living in a box with my family. So many people in my life has let me down and pooped on me that I was unable and didn't want to even try to trust anyone else.
> But when things happened with my mother and I started to suffer from PTSD because of it, I knew I needed help.
> The first thing I needed to learn was to trust my T. It took several months and little by little I came to trust him. It felt good and I saw the rewards in being with other people can bring. I know my T relationship isn't a personal one , but it was the closest thing to one that I have had in years.
> Because of learning to trust him, it gave me convidence to pursue other people very slowly. He showed me that people can be good and maybe I can have faith in the human race again. I am talking on these boards, talking to strangers in the grocery store, and I am slowly learning how to be friend with a few neighboors because of this trust. I am much more "open" to people. Trusting my T has been my rock to lean on, especially since my current life is on the rocks like my marriage. But I am going on and still trying to do what I have learned in therapy. I learning to become a better more
> rounded person.Yes. I can see that coming to trust him was a very significant issue for you.
> Well in my last session he talked about termination and he said he was a good lier. I felt he was giving up on me, even when we are just getting to nitty gitty of things. The trust in my T is what gave me strength to change my life, now is he lying? It shook my safe place I felt I had with him, and make me question if everything he said was all lies to me. It shook my convidence in him. I need to be able to go to therapy and feel safe and trust him. I know in personal relationships you can't always count on this. But in a T relationship, is this something I should have to worry about? Shouldn't I feel safe to do my work with him?
Yes, I think you should feel safe. I don’t think he should pull the rug out from under your feet. Not on purpose, anyway.
It occurred to me that all therapists are probably good liars. They have to be able to keep their facial expressions blank in response to just about anything, and they have to be able to keep an even tone of voice no matter what they’re saying. But I’m not sure they should advertise the fact! And I doubt they actually need to lie to clients. I don’t think a therapist could gain much from lying to a client, especially a good therapist who has his client’s best interests at heart.
> I realize that he probably didn't see the weight of his words at the moment and how I would take them. I am sure he didn't mean to do this, I feel it was poor judgement on his part to use "himself" saying he is a bad liar especially with a client who has trust issues. If you can't trust your T , who can you trust? It would be like telling a client with a past history of abuse that he is good at hitting his wife. He should of used someone else as an example.
I take your point. Your comparison with an abusive husband is a powerful and emotive one. Are you planning to use this example when you talk to him? I wonder if it’s just so powerful as to be a little dangerous… I only mean that if he doesn’t understand immediately what you mean, it could end up diverting the conversation…
> With my future so up in the air, I need to have a safe place where I don't have to worry if the other person is going to hurt me. My convidence in this has been shaken with him.
> But one difference, when normally I would just end a relationship when someone did this to me, I am wanting to work this out with him. I am telling him I am sorry for overreacting to my anger and scared feelings. I guess I have built some trust in him, even though it is less now, I still want to work this out. He has let me down, and I told him this, I hope he will undertand this when or if I get a chance to see him again and explain it. My life is so much bettter since working with him, I would hate to start all over.It’s great that you have made so much progress!
> He has been able to get through to me when nobody else even came close. I don't think he knows what kind of impact he has had on my life. I plan on telling him this. It is hard for me to really open up, but he deserves to know how I really feel about what he has helped me change my life to be so much more rewarding then ever. I hope I get the chance to tell him this. :) I am feeling so nervous about it right now.
I can imagine you feel nervous. I hope he understands. I’m sure when you talk about it he will help you explore the depths of your feelings about it.
> > But I’m sure he’ll take you back because it does seem to be what people call a ‘therapeutic opportunity’.
> >
> I hope so because I feel my emotions are pouring out of me. I need him, I hope he knows that.I’m sure he does. I hope you manage to get in contact with him soon.
(((((happyflower)))))
The waiting is hard, isn’t it? Keep posting.
Posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 14:21:43
In reply to Re: long post but it explains what I feel » happyflower, posted by Tamar on July 3, 2005, at 13:49:47
> > I’m not entirely sure I understand. Was your T suggesting that your husband might be cheating on you without your knowledge? Was he intending to get you to think about whether you rely too much on being able to tell if people are lying in order to be able to trust them? Was he trying to encourage you to think of different ways of trusting people (e.g. trusting people on the basis of consistent behaviour)?
Okay, here is all the story. My husband was on a buisness trip in Germany. There is this women who likes my husband, has for many years. They were friends, I even warned my DH that I think she is interested in being more than friends. I told him to be careful being her friend. Well a couple of years ago she got breast cancer. He helped support her during that time. Well she has been getting too close to my DH. On a buisness trip, after they and many others had been drinking during a business dinner, she came to his hotel room and tried to seduce my DH. He said nothing physical happened and he told her he was married and didn't want her in the same way. Well she got embarrest and quit her job. This was about 3 months ago. I recently found out she has come back to work their again.
Well during all of this past 3 months, my DH has been emotionally distant, not wanting sex, and has been avoiding spending time with me alone. He told me he is attracted to her, and it felt good to be wanted by someone new, and it left him confused. He said he liked her, but he was confused on whether she meant more than a friend. He knows that if he cheats on me, our marriage is over. Well he finally broke down and told me this about a month ago. He is a very bad liar, at least I always thought so, and he told me all of this and that nothing physical happened. I believed him that nothing physical happened. Well my T said are you sure you can really read him as well as you think? My T said he is a very good liar and he doesn't think I could tell if he was lying. (which I told him I think I could tell).
Then we went on to something else.
> Yes, I think you should feel safe. I don’t think he should pull the rug out from under your feet. Not on purpose, anyway.Yes, this is what it felt like to me. My husband used to be the only one I could trust, now I am not too sure. And now one person that I thought I could trust too( my T ) is all being questioned.
I feel like I am on shaky ground. My DH has had a great marriage for 11 years until this year. I think if this problem didn't surface, I would probably almost done with therapy. It is so hard to talk about with my T .> It occurred to me that all therapists are probably good liars. They have to be able to keep their facial expressions blank in response to just about anything, and they have to be able to keep an even tone of voice no matter what they’re saying. But I’m not sure they should advertise the fact! And I doubt they actually need to lie to clients. I don’t think a therapist could gain much from lying to a client, especially a good therapist who has his client’s best interests at heart.
I agree, I don't want to know if he is telling me white lies. I want to feel safe and trust him.
>
> >> I take your point. Your comparison with an abusive husband is a powerful and emotive one. Are you planning to use this example when you talk to him? I wonder if it’s just so powerful as to be a little dangerous… I only mean that if he doesn’t understand immediately what you mean, it could end up diverting the conversation…Can you expand on this thought, I was thinking of using this example to make my point on what he did to me. I was going to ask him just to sit back and let me talk and just listen to me, I will let him respond when I am done. I want to express myself and it might take awhile. I want him just to be patient and let me talk without interupting me.
> > (((((happyflower)))))
Thank for the hugs, some days we all just need that!
> The waiting is hard, isn’t it? Keep posting.Yes waiting is killing me. I hope he gets my card before he tries calling me. (maybe he doesn't intend on calling me anyways, without hearing from me first). Do you think if he calls me, I should just keep it short (since I already sent him a card that said I was sorry), and just confirm an appointment? Should I say much else, or do you think my card will be enough for him to know I am sorry? I appreciate your support Tamar! :) I really need support now, it is sad but true, I feel like my DH and my T has let me down. :(
>
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Posted by Dinah on July 3, 2005, at 15:29:44
In reply to Re: long post but it explains what I feel » Tamar, posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 14:21:43
Good grief. Of course you're angry with him.
It wasn't too kind of him to implant the idea that your husband was lying about something so important.
He not only suggested that he might lie, and you'd never know, but he tied it into the idea that your husband might cheat on you, and you'd never know. And how can you be so sure he didn't.
Geesh.
I'd be angry too. It seems very undermining of your attempts to keep a good relationship with your husband.
You've known your husband for years now. If you think he's telling you the truth, most likely he is. It sounds as if he's been very truthful about how he feels. Almost painfully truthful. But at least that gives you a chance to work together to solve the problem.
You'd think your therapist could concentrate on how to improve matters between you and your husband rather than on giving you the idea that things could be even worse than you thought.
Sometimes things enter a therapist's mind that really should stop before they issue from his lips. But sometimes they also screw up and blurt things out.
I can understand your anger better now. The whole thing probably connected him with your husband, and your husband with him, in highly disconcerting ways.
If he cheated on his wife, she wouldn't be able to tell. If your husband cheated on you, you wouldn't be able to tell. It calls into question your ideas about him as a moral human being, your ideas about yourself and your ability to determine reality, about your marriage and your husband's truthfulness.
I think it was a mistake. I don't think it was an unforgiveable mistake. But I do think it was a mistake.
I think I'd point out that I'd prefer the focus be on helping improve your marriage, not on making the marriage appear shakier than it in reality is.
But I do think you can work through this.
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