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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by messadivoce on March 28, 2005, at 18:56:18
Or if anyone has heard from her, let me know. I'm a little worried.
Voce
Posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
In reply to Daisy, let us know you're okay, posted by messadivoce on March 28, 2005, at 18:56:18
I'm hanging in there. Thanks for worrying. I'm going through a really tough time, it is very hard to explain it all. Therapy has meant intense crying sessions for me, trying to understand HOW this happened and why no one cared enough to make it stop. I know without question that my older brother knew and I've been tortured with the idea lately that my mother knew too. I'll never know for sure, but either way -- how could a mom *not* know? Either I wasn't worth saving or I wasn't worth noticing. It is so hard for me to reconcile all of this with the "typical" middle-class family we appeared to be.
The thing that has sent me to the edge is that I'm discovering what appears to be anger -- dangerous rage that scares the crud out of me. There was an *incident* Friday night and I'm having a very, very hard time forgiving myself and allowing the anger to be justified. (Not with my children, Thank God.) I'm terrified of who I'm becoming and what might come next. I was definitely suicidal for most of the weekend.
I made myself tell my therapist all of this today. He sits calmly and nods his head and speaks gently as I sob. He says it has been building, he's seen it peek out. He tells me we will deal with it together. He says not to worry if it spills on him, he isn't afraid of it. He says no matter what, he won't leave me. He told me this wasn't the time to pull back, to leave therapy, which was what I thought I should do.
Mostly, he is worried about the middle of the night suicidal, pity-parties. I told him that I didn't think the needs of my youngest child were strong enough to hold me here this time. And I didn't think that all the parts of me would adhere to the promise to call him first. That dying was better than becoming an angry, hurtful, horrible monster. I refuse to be that. So tomorrow we will talk about a "no-harm contract" (?) which I've not had before, and tonight I agreed to a double dose of sleeping pills to help me sleep through the night.
I don't really know what to do with all of this. I feel caught up in a funnel cloud, emotions swirling all around me, about to be dropped in Oz and face the wicked witch. Only the wicked witch is me...
I'm sorry to be so needy and not helpful. I'm open to suggestion. Thanks for all the hugs above.
Posted by All Done on March 29, 2005, at 1:27:58
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
(((((Daisy))))),
I'm feel so terrible that you're having such a rough time. I wish things were different.
I'm not sure I have any words of wisdom for you, but I think I can say it takes more than just anger to make a monster out of someone. Probably lots of qualities that you do not possess.
I also think you deserve to let yourself be angry about what happened to you. It was just terrible and something you should never have had to experience. And maybe if you allow yourself to be angry now, eventually you will be able to let the anger go. You shouldn't have to live with all of this inside of you.
I'm glad you have your T. Don't worry about feeling needy with him - or us, for that matter. We care for you, Daisy.
(((((Daisy)))))
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by 10derHeart on March 29, 2005, at 2:13:38
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Dearest Daisy,
Thanks for posting. That took a lot of strength.
You must cling to that T like...like...white on rice. For dear life (not trying to be "flip" - never about this ) - because he will help you *choose* life - always.
You were - ARE - worth saving. So very, very, very much so. It WAS NOT your fault. It was the shortcomings, ugliness, mistakes, crimes, fears, weaknesses, etc., in others - that's the worthless part. NOT one thing about Daisy.
Sorry, don't mean to go on so...I just want to defend you and protect you from all this pain. But maybe it's time to purge the anger. It must be awfully scary. Lean on your T. and us.
You know, you might be in that funnel cloud, and drop down in Oz, but you won't have to face any wicked witch, and certainly not yourself. I see you being caught gently in the arms of Glinda, the original Good Witch, who may just also go by the name of Daisy's T.....completely wise, calm, peaceful and good.
And remember, Daisy, s(he) knows the "way home."
I like my Oz story better, 'kay? :-)
You WILL make it past this part. (((Daisy)))
Posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 5:20:50
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
I just kinda skimmed your post (cause of the trigger). But I wanted to say that I get that times are tough for you at the moment and you are doing a lot of work that is really really hard.
(((Daisy)))
Hang in there.
You will come out of this.
It must be really really hard.
I admire you for having the courage to be doing this.Really.
:-)
Posted by sunny10 on March 29, 2005, at 8:09:34
In reply to Re: (((Daisy))), posted by alexandra_k on March 29, 2005, at 5:20:50
your strength and personal fortitude astounds me.
You are a much stronger, better person than you give yourself credit for.
You are definitely worth it. Your T will help you, that what he's there for. You are so amazingly resilient and full of love- you quite take my breath away.
Thank you for sharing such a meaningful post. We are all here to listen any time you need to vent out what you're going through. Frankly, your recounting of your experiences and feelings make me feel less alone- they make me feel that I can maybe be less afraid of myself.
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOX
Sunny10
Posted by mair on March 29, 2005, at 8:53:37
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
I'll echo what Sunny said - I think you've been an inspiration to lots of people on this Board, certainly to me. I know how tough it is to lead the double life you lead, but you do it so responsibly.
I wish I could say something (anything) of help. I told my pdoc the other day that when I think of killing myself I force myself to visualize my children. Both she and my T have pointed out to me that those who have lost a parent to suicide bear scars that never go away and that are different from the scars left when your parent dies from illness or accident. So it's not just a matter of whether your sons need you (of course they do) but also a matter of their need that you not leave them in this manner.
Figuring out the sleep stuff is huge, at least for me because I function so poorly when I'm sleep deprived and those middle of the night hours can be awful.
You have a wonderful T who is clearly willing to allow you to lean on him however much you need to. Please do without guilt or shame. And remember, therapy is a process and sometimes things have to be bad for them to be better.
Be safe
mair
Posted by TofuEmmy on March 29, 2005, at 8:58:01
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Hi sweetpea - I sent you an email. I guess my thoughts come from the girl in me whose mom suicided. I know you think that it would be better for your kids to be without a mom than to have an angry, screwed up one.
If you would plz wander around your head a bit and search out a wee logical part, you might know that this current state of mind will not last forever. It feels like it tho. But it won't last forever.
My mom thought her kids would be better off without her. She thought she was too crazy. But I would beg to differ, oh dodo mom of mine. I would have LOVED to have a crazy mom. Crazy sorta comes and goes, as most of us know. Phases in and out. I'd take her any way I could get her. She had a bad phase, and killed herself. Now I've been without her for 30 years. It was just a bad depressive cycle! It would not have lasted.
She smelled of hyacinths.
emmy
Posted by Dinah on March 29, 2005, at 9:58:41
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Posted by TofuEmmy on March 29, 2005, at 12:05:42
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
I just re-read my post, and I feel badly if I seem to be dismissing your current pain. I'm very sorry!
As the kids say...MEGA HUGS!!,
emmy
Posted by Shortelise on March 29, 2005, at 12:18:07
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Daisy, this sounds so horribly painful. I am so sorry.
Anger, eh? It occurs to me that it's again part of the fight or flight thing, sometimes the reaction is anxiety, sometimes it's anger.
I think you have every right to be angry. If it were me, I'd express that anger. When I went through a period of intense anger in therapy, anger that was directed at my T, poor thing, I walked. Yes, I know, I always suggest walking, but in this case, I POUNDED the sidewalk. I went for walk/runs, steeped in anger, letting it flood through me, using the energy it gave me - all that pent-up, putrifying fury - to walk/run/stomp. It felt great! If I played tennis, I might have done that; skied, whatever- I would have had to have done something like that.
It was like poison in my veins, and my husband and I would talk, I would tell him how angry I felt and why, and he would listen to me, let me yell, because I wasn't yelling at him, I was just emoting.
And it went away. I fought my way through it, was lucky enough to find some ways of dealing with it that weren't hurtful to me or others, and it went away. Not because I am a terribly evolved person, not only because I worked it through in therapy, which I did. But also because I let it out of my body. There is so much hurt and anger and sadness that build up in us - lord, I sound like some kind of nut. Ok, I am some kind of nut!
Daisy, you could tell your kids not to worry, that Mommy is in a nasty mood right now but she loves them and is not mad at them and it's not their fault, but Mommy is the Grinch for the next little while. I'd want to hear that - I do hear that from my husband when he is in a lousy mood and has the sense to explain that he's upset about something.
Last week I was digging a hole in the garden to plant a rose bush, and I found myself thinking about someone I am angry with, and I dug that hole in no time at all!
Daisy, move. Run, do aerobics, go dancing, do anything to try to vent the anger in healthy way. I truly believe that when we can physically relieve ourselves of stuff we have carried around for so long, it really helps us digest it mentally. I so very strongly believe that. And it's way better than suicide, don't you think?
Today I'd be your wailing wall, or rather, your shouting wall. Hard but porous, you could fling all of that anger at me, and I'd absorb it.
Hugs
ShortE
Posted by messadivoce on March 29, 2005, at 15:30:15
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Dear, dear Daisy,
I can't add too much after all the things others said...they are all true. I am so sorry.
You are in my prayers, to have a restful night tonight and better days ahead.
Is this grown-up Daisy, being angry at those who didn't protect little Daisy? Her anger is justified.
Hang on. That's not a request. ;-)
Hugs.Voce
Posted by Tamar on March 29, 2005, at 15:36:09
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
I'm sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. I know that rage is so hard to deal with, and I've done some things in rage that I'm not at all proud of. It can be frightening. But if you keep working through it, it will start to get better. It takes courage, but you are very courageous.
Forgiving yourself takes courage too, but the rage comes from the pain, and it doesn't mean you're a bad person. On the contrary, you are a very good person. You are a good person who feels pain and anger for a very good reason. The rage is a natural and normal response to events that are not natural or normal. Keep reminding yourself that you are not bad, and that if you sometimes feel or do things that distress you, it is because you are suffering; you are not inherently wicked. You are a wonderful person.
(((Daisy)))
Posted by mair on March 29, 2005, at 16:16:04
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
You're anger is so understandable. Decades ago I had a psychiatrist who wanted me to buy a bunch of old dishes and go down into my stone-wall basement and break them as an outlet for my anger.
He was just too strange, as was the whole idea and then of course I worried about how to clean up the broken shards.
Maybe you should let one of your boys take you to a batting cage - I haven't done it much, but I would think swinging a bat might be useful.
I'm being trite here - I know anger is frightening, and I've never expressed anger and felt all that great about it afterward. And I have blown up at my kids. But you also can't just bottle it up and let it gnaw at you from the inside.
mair
Posted by pinkeye on March 29, 2005, at 16:54:44
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Get some punching bags and pillows and punch them and throw the pillows.. Or do vigours exercise. That will calm you down and vent some of the anger.
You are of course justified in feeling so angry. I would too, if I had to go through somehting like that.
Posted by pegasus on March 29, 2005, at 17:39:39
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Oh, Daisy, sweetie, you are no witch! You may have some really scary anger to deal with, but it doesn't have to be permanent, or to define you even temporarily. And it doesn't even have to be negative. You are entitled to a lot of anger. It sounds like it's probably righteous anger. Which doesn't make it easy or less scary. But maybe once you acknowledge it and own it, you'll be able to integrate it and experience it in a less scary way. I think that's the goal, right?
I'm so glad you have your wonderful T. This is hard hard work. Please let us help you, too, if we can. You are so worth lots of help, whether your limited family could give it or not. Those problems were because of their limitations, not your worth. You've given all of us a ton of help when we've been in need, and I know you are treasured by many people IRL too.
many hugs
pegasus
Posted by Shortelise on March 29, 2005, at 17:49:46
In reply to Re: Tough Times, trigger » daisym, posted by TofuEmmy on March 29, 2005, at 8:58:01
Posted by TofuEmmy on March 29, 2005, at 18:22:05
In reply to Re: Tough Times, trigger, posted by messadivoce on March 29, 2005, at 15:30:15
"Hang on. That's not a request. ;-)"
Perfect! And ditto.
emmy
Posted by Poet on March 29, 2005, at 19:30:29
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
((((((Daisy)))))))
Throw water on that wicked witch. Make the image melt away, because you are not wicked.
It's okay to be angry, I know it's hard not to take it out on yourself.
I wish I could wave Glinda the good witch's wand and you could click your heels three times and be safe.
Please post when you are feeling up to it.
Poet
Posted by littleone on March 29, 2005, at 20:16:16
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Daisy, I don't have many words in me at the moment, but I did want you to know that I'm thinking of you. Please take care of yourself (and little daisy too).
Anger is especially hard for those of us who have never had it modelled in a healthy manner. But it doesn't make us wicked witches. It's just something else for us to learn.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 29, 2005, at 20:22:39
In reply to Tough Times, trigger, posted by daisym on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:40
Just more hugs Daisy ((((Daisy)))
I struggle with both, the hurt that no one stopped it, and the anger. I think I find the anger most difficult to deal with, the hurt has an outlet in crying, but my anger doesn't. I'm sorry I can't help
Posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2005, at 21:17:06
In reply to Re: Tough Times, trigger » daisym, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 29, 2005, at 20:22:39
I'm here with hugs, too. As many or as few as you can tolerate. And good wishes, hopeful thoughts, and love.
Much love.
gg
Posted by fallsfall on March 29, 2005, at 21:42:36
In reply to Re: Tough Times, trigger, posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2005, at 21:17:06
Hey, Daisy.
Please let us know how you are doing.
I hope your therapy session today was helpful. I guess that I hope that you feel more in control. Will you go again tomorrow?
Anger is so scary. But, you know, everybody in the world deals with anger in one way or another - and some significant portion of the world deals with it pretty successfully. So there must be ways to live with anger. We just have to figure out what they are. But we are smart cookies, and we *want* to learn these things, and we have good teachers/therapists. I wish that you could see the same hope that I do that we will successfully learn to deal with this.
Please keep yourself safe. Give yourself a chance to learn all of this.
Keep in touch, OK? particularly if you are up in the middle of the night.
Love,
Falls.
Posted by daisym on March 30, 2005, at 0:07:28
In reply to Re: Tough Times, trigger » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on March 29, 2005, at 21:42:36
I should answer all of you individually, I'm so lucky to have you. I just can't right now, but know it means so much that you are out there for me.
Emmy, you DID NOT ignore my pain. If anything, you shared something powerful that I keep going back to in these dark moments. I told my therapist today that the fact that my sons would miss me isn't enough, but your continued pain reminds me that I would leave a life-time wound.
I must say that it sounds like so many of us are scared of anger -- that it feels threatening and bad, both directed at us and from us. I don't know how to get past this idea that letting it out makes it bigger, gives it room to grow and potentially provides another avenue of destruction. My therapist said today I was tentative with him, like I was afraid I'd hurt him in some way. He is absolutely right. More, I'm terrified that if my anger gets out, his response will be to get angry back. He asked me to play out this fantasy, so I imagined him yelling at me, working himself up into a rage and then telling me he can't work with someone who calls this stuff out in him. And then I'd be alone again. He pointed out that I think I'm some sort of anger magnet, magnifying it for each person I come in contact with. Yup, that is exactly how I feel.
It was hard for me to imagine this, harder still to actually talk about it. He reminds me how calm he is, how soft-spoken and how steady. He said just because I fear it, doesn't make it so. But how can he know this? We haven't done this together...I couldn't take it if he yelled at me. He said he won't, even if I yell at him. He said I could even test it out. No way I'm doing that.
Mostly, I miss him. This whole anger thing has caused me to close down, to set everyone else outside, safely away from me. He told me again that he refuses to be pushed away. That being suicidal is about being alone and pushing him away is one way I'm clearing my path to make it OK for me to go down this road. He said it isn't OK...he'd miss me.
Oh, that makes me cry. But the pain is so huge, and I'm so afraid. I don't want to hit pillows, or yell at anyone or go for a walk, even if I should. I just want my mommy to come and get me. Or I want to wake up from this nightmare. Or maybe I just want to sleep forever. I'm tired of being responsible, of fighting back, of being strong.
I'm trying to pull myself out of this, babblers, I promise I'm trying. It is just so much harder at night, you know?
Posted by messadivoce on March 30, 2005, at 0:52:33
In reply to Night Times - trigger, posted by daisym on March 30, 2005, at 0:07:28
Daisy, I pray you sleep well tonight.
Morning will come. In more ways than one, I just know it.
Voce
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