![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 9:16:17
I am wondering if I am overreacting in my difficulties in coming to term with a short period of fondling by my brother-in-law when I was 17. I am 44 now and have just recently told some of my family members about it and didn't even bring it up in therapy for many years.
I've harbored much guilt and shame, believing it was my fault as he (brother-in-law) is such an admired and respected individual within my family and the community.
I've posted before on this but today one of my sisters who I confided in about this a few years ago (not the wife of the brother-in-law who did it) was telling me about a trial she was on regarding sexual abuse. She was telling me stuff that she thought would be new to me, like, it often takes the victim a long time to come forward, victims often have troubles in relationships, psychological problems, etc. Hello????? Ok, the case she was on was much worse than what I went through because the victim was younger, the abuse came from her mother's lover (a lesbian) and there was penetration. But, why does my family think what happened to me doesn't count? I mean I don't expect them to do anything but support me, but her telling me about this trial like I was someone totally unfamiliar with the topic blew me away. I'm rambling here, but I guess my main question remains. If a someone is fondled in their private areas without their consent, is it still considered sexual abuse????
Posted by LG04 on April 14, 2004, at 9:30:32
In reply to Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 9:16:17
Yes. Yes. YES. 100%. Period, no question mark. YES. It's sexual abuse.
Coming from someone who was sexually abused for years and has been in therapy for it for years as well...
LG
Posted by antigua on April 14, 2004, at 9:54:18
In reply to Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 9:16:17
Absolutely. Check out this site is you haven't already.
http://www.ncptsd.org/facts/specific/fs_child_sexual_abuse.html
Society, in general, is misinformed about what constitutes sexual abuse. Also, in my experience, there is a lot of denial and blaming of the victim, sometimes because it's a subject people find so uncomfortable or have experience w/it and want to deny it. Please don't let anyone tell you that what you experienced is not sexual abuse. What happened to you is not minimal, it affects so many parts of our lives.
If I can be of help, please let me know. I've been going through this for a long time.
antigua
Posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 10:46:44
In reply to Re: Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by antigua on April 14, 2004, at 9:54:18
Thank you both so much. I will check out the site you suggested.
Posted by DaisyM on April 14, 2004, at 15:48:56
In reply to Re: Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 10:46:44
Please remember that sexual abuse is about power, not penetration. And how it effects you does not have any correlation to "how awful" whatever happened was. Often, it is how you were treated afterwards, was there a trusted somebody who believed you and helped you heal...or did you stuff it down like many of us.
And, when it was done by someone who was suppose to take care of you, who you admired and respected, the effect on your ability to trust is even greater. Because your soul got abused as well as your body.
Please don't feel bad about feeling bad. It isn't simple.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 14, 2004, at 17:21:09
In reply to Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 9:16:17
Posted by sjb on April 15, 2004, at 9:01:52
In reply to Re: Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 10:46:44
Thank you for your support and validation. My oldest sister was sympathetic and said what happened was horrible but I really regret telling her and my youngest sister about it. (I'm the youngest of 4.) They still have a lot contact with the guy and my other sister who's married to him. My parents think he's wonderful, but there's a lot of denial in my family. I confided to another sister while I was an inpatient at an Eating Disorders hospital and the first thing out of her mouth was, "We can't tell mom 'cause it would hurt her too much." What the f*** about my feelings???? It just really pissed me off. And then later they'd both mention visits they had to my sister and her abusing husband and would tell me what a good time they had, etc. I don't know. If it were me, and my sister told me what I told them, I wouldn't want to see the jerk, let alone ENJOY it. It's like it's my problem out there in limbo somewhere and it is not to effect the "normalcy" of the rest of the family. I feel so lonely all the time, I don't even tell my husband much anymore about my struggles. My binge eating has increased and I have a feeling of exhaustion and forcing my self to exercise has been very difficult. It doesn't make me feel better either. Everything seems to be falling apart and I can't seem to dig out of the whole.
Posted by DaisyM on April 15, 2004, at 19:20:46
In reply to Re: Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 15, 2004, at 9:01:52
sjb,
Your family's reaction is not unusual. This is why so many victims DON'T tell anyone, even as adults. When it is a family member you often have to choose between a relationship in the here and now, letting go of the past, or no contact with your family...or at least that member. People don't know what to say or how to act and ultimately they feel divided.
I've been working on my childhood abuse trauma for a little less than a year. We are off and on using the "Courage to Heal" workbook. There is a text as well. There is a chapter about families that you might find helpful. Not all of the book applies and I've found it really difficult to read, which is why we are using the workbook. I DON'T recommend it unless you are working with a Therapist who knows how to work with trauma victims as it is immensely triggering. But I did find it helpful to know what I was going through was "normal" if I can use that word.
The ripple effects of abuse are like an insidious poison that seems to spread over and on to everything and everyone in your life. It takes a great deal of courage and a ton of support to work through it. I hope you can find some support here for what you are going through. It isn't easy.
Posted by shadows721 on April 17, 2004, at 21:20:41
In reply to Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 9:16:17
Yes, this is molestation. No one touches someone privates like this. He crossed the line. It has affected you. As someone else said, you don't have to have penetration to cross this line. Your eating disorder sounds like body self loathing to me from what happened to you. This had a deeper wound than your consciousness wanted to admit openly. Your body responded and you felt shame.
Violators don't have a sign on them saying, "Hey, everyone, I am a molestor." On the contrary, most of them look like everyone else. An almost 100% of them are protected. People tend to blame the victim. Victims tend to blame themselves as well.
Shame on him and all who protect him. Push this self loathing back to where it really belongs. Put the anger on the act of violation. Don't minimize what happened to or even allow others to minimize who and what he did to you. Get away from those that are into denial. Don't listen to it. It's trash. Validate yourself and refuse to entertain those that protect molesters like this.
Also, I have a strong feeling you aren't the only one. These people are pretators. They prey on the innocent and inexperienced. They shift all their accountability onto the victim. Don't stay in the victim role. Get empowered and take care of yourself. You didn't deserve this. Don't ever blame yourself.
Posted by TryingToBeMerry on April 18, 2004, at 18:19:02
In reply to He crossed the line, posted by shadows721 on April 17, 2004, at 21:20:41
To repeat what's already, been said - yes, it definitely IS abuse! I've been in therapy for several years now and it's a topic we come back to often. My family also was unsupportive (they didn't believe me and when a teacher recommended a therapist, their first question to the therapist was about what other people would think of our family because I was seeing a therapist!). One of the things I'm trying to deal with in my therapy right now is accepting the limitations of my family. I don't mean to say that what they did was right. Not at all. But I can't undo the way they reacted and I can't have a permanent grudge against them either. It still hurts, and the more I talk about it with my therapist, the more it hurts. Because she makes me realize I should have been treated so much differently by my parents. But how they dealt with it and how I feel about it are things that I have to learn to deal with and not let it mess me up.
I don't know if I'm making any sense. I'm still trying to figure things out myself. All I'm trying to say is that if anger towards your family or feelings of being betrayed by them are eating you up, you should talk to a therapist who could help you deal with it. You can't change your family, but you can change how you deal with their treatment of you.
Posted by spoc on April 19, 2004, at 19:40:58
In reply to Sexual abuse - does molestation count?, posted by sjb on April 14, 2004, at 9:16:17
Can I ask, is there usually a long term effect even if the person believes on a conscious level that the incidents didn't affect them; and that, although they never got help, they have them in perspective as far as not blaming themselves? In other words, if you don't consciously feel traumatized; and even before the incidents you had developing problems, might there have indeed been no damage?
I'm not looking for problems to have or people to blame, but as I try to work on my issues maybe I'm overlooking that this really could be a factor. I have much to work on but never drew a parallel to those incidents (3 different people, all when I was under 13, and not.... what would the word be.... "the whole nine yards").
Posted by Beta on April 19, 2004, at 20:49:06
In reply to Re: Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?, posted by spoc on April 19, 2004, at 19:40:58
Although I am very new to the effects of trauma, and my recent diagnosis of PTSD, I am trying to gain as much insight as possible regarding how trauma affects our subconscious. (My counselling is to begin soon, I hope.) I wholeheartedly believe that there most likely are several long term effects of csa.
I survived for almost 3 decades; self medicating with illegal drugs, and alcohol, knowing that there was "something wrong", but unable to pinpoint it. I was great at avoiding the memories, I thought. But, my body and subconscious did not agree, especially after I decided to quit drinking alcohol. I ran until the physical symptoms could no long be overlooked by others. In my case it was rapid, extreme weight loss that caught the attention of others.
I recently read that the symptoms of csa may not show up until our third or fourth decade of life.
My suggestion to you would be to see a therapist. I did not "consciously feel traumatized", nor did I understand the coorelation between my csa history and the problems and issues I have experienced throughout my life.
(Any and all further insight on this from others would be extremely appreciated.)
Thanks for listening,
~Beth
Posted by DaisyM on April 21, 2004, at 23:50:13
In reply to Re: Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?, posted by spoc on April 19, 2004, at 19:40:58
Research tells us that it isn't so much "what" happened (the act) but who did it, what the circumstances were, and most importantly, what happened after. If the child told someone, was believed and was able to deal with the emotions at the time and heal, the long term effects at the time are less.
If the trauma is kept a secret, which most of do, it gets buried really deeply but it festers. Something, somewhere might trigger the memories. Whether this ever happens or not, typically we develop behaviors in part because of what has happened. That doesn't mean a person can't have a wonderful life or have other, nonrelated problems. But it is pretty unusual for there to be effects.
I found myself "suddenly" depressed at 41 (last yr). My son had developed an anxiety disorder at age 11, the same age I was when I was experiencing csa. I didn't know I was being triggered...I thought I was "just" overloaded. I remembered the csa (kind of) but thought I had made a success of my life "despite" the abuse. I am finding out now that much of my emotional state is the result of what happened to me. That doesn't mean the other stuff in my life isn't hard or couldn't cause depression, anxiety etc. When I started therapy I had no intention of even talking about it. Somehow it surfaced and we've done a lot of work to connect all the dots.
I don't know if this helps. I don't want to give the message that you HAVE to have problems.
Posted by spoc on April 22, 2004, at 21:11:56
In reply to Re: Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?, posted by Beta on April 19, 2004, at 20:49:06
Hi Beta,
I definitely agree it seems very likely that there must be long term effects in a lot of cases. Was your PTSD diagnosis based in part on that aspect of what you have been through? It sounds like it's been a long, tumultuous road for you, and thankfully you're finally in a place to start figuring things out and seeking some peace.
As people on this thread have stated, there is no "ok" instance or episode of abuse. I tend to minimize my situation because from what I am conscious of anyway, all together it was a matter of days rather than ongoing. And, it's hard not to discount it on the grounds that I hear about much worse not only on that count, but also as far as specifically what happened. Who they were was probably at least half as bad as it gets though. I don't mean to rate things and how the individual is impacted no matter what actually happened is obviously the biggest factor. It's automatic for me sort my situation out this way, I hope it doesn't offend anyone -- I do so in reference to myself only. I have a big tendency to come back to thinking I deserve to feel bad or damaged by nothing in my past.
Of the problems I have ended up having (some of which, as I said, were developing prior to the incidents), none seem related to my opinion of men or relationships. In that realm my problems affect only my own ability to feel *I* can live up (and *not* meaning feeling I'm not good enough). But that came largely from a healthy relationship I "unexpectedly" stumbled into in my 20s, that took me off the classic road I was otherwise on (of being attracted to people who would treat me badly). But all that is oversimplifying I'm sure.
I have no idea what I think or what I'm saying! I do need to seek therapy for other things, so I will try to make it a point to cover this too. Actually I did mention it in a recent short-lived, mismatched therapy attempt (which turned out to be psychoanalysis without me knowing it). Being very uncomfortable, I tested the water by glossing over one of the incidents. As always he just sat there, never asked a question or reacted, and it never came up again. I have told maybe one other person in my whole life about this and had felt ridiculous bringing it up in the first place, so his reaction served to confirm for me that I shouldn't have and it must have somehow looked bad that I did. But I'll try to try again someday.
All the best to you with the counseling you are starting; post back about any insights you get if you can!
Posted by spoc on April 22, 2004, at 21:52:45
In reply to Re: Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?, posted by DaisyM on April 21, 2004, at 23:50:13
Hi DaisyM,
Thanks for answering -- I saw one of your other posts and know that you are going through a lot right now....
---
> Research tells us that it isn't so much "what" happened (the act) but who did it, what the circumstances were, and most importantly, what happened after. If the child told someone, was believed and was able to deal with the emotions at the time and heal, the long term effects at the time are less. > > If the trauma is kept a secret, which most of do, it gets buried really deeply but it festers. >---
I don't fare well on any of those counts...
----> I found myself "suddenly" depressed at 41 (last yr). My son had developed an anxiety disorder at age 11, the same age I was when I was experiencing csa. I didn't know I was being triggered...I thought I was "just" overloaded. I remembered the csa (kind of) but thought I had made a success of my life "despite" the abuse. I am finding out now that much of my emotional state is the result of what happened to me. That doesn't mean the other stuff in my life isn't hard or couldn't cause depression, anxiety etc. When I started therapy I had no intention of even talking about it. Somehow it surfaced and we've done a lot of work to connect all the dots. >
-----
It's hard for me not to make things relative in my case and minimize them, as I was saying in my above post to Beta. I don't think I'll ever "allow" myself to look at this in my life. But, all my lip service to having everything in my life in perspective and putting responsibility for who I became squarely on myself has indeed not helped me so far. In general I need to speak from the gut for a change. I qualify everything and add mature-sounding footnotes to show that I know what "conventional wisdom" (or a professional) would say. Anyway I will try to include this subject if I try therapy again, which I know I should but my last experience with that seems to have me formally accepting that I'm not worth saving. Hopefully I'll get the motivation back.Thanks for your comments, and I'm so sorry about everything you're going through...
Posted by sjb on April 23, 2004, at 14:05:26
In reply to Re: He crossed the line, posted by TryingToBeMerry on April 18, 2004, at 18:19:02
Thanks so much for all of your support. This thread has been very helpful for me. I was particulary interested in the timing, i.e. that many victims don't "deal" with it until their 30s or 40s. (Of course, I guess we were always "dealing" with it in different ways, in my case, from my early 20's to mid 30's I was a very, very heavy drinker.)
I'm seeing an excellent therapist now, and since my first post I really opened up about it for the first time. I'm still struggling with the family dynamic. I haven't heard from my sister who was in the trial since last week when I reminded her of my history (she usually emails often.) It's like my other sisters abandon me when I bring it up. I feel like they find it more important to protect the relationship with the brother-in-law and stay in the denial world rather than validate the Truth and my world by sticking by me.
I REALLY wish I never told them but there's nothing I can do about that now.
I can really relate to what others have said, esp. the person's who's family was more concerned "about what the Jones' would think" regarding her therapy. Geez, it's really something. It's like, "Honey, get help, but keep us out of it, we have an image of the good family to protect!"
It remains a lonely place.
Posted by spoc on April 23, 2004, at 16:00:35
In reply to Re: He crossed the line, posted by sjb on April 23, 2004, at 14:05:26
> I REALLY wish I never told them but there's nothing I can do about that now. >
> I can really relate to what others have said, esp. the person's who's family was more concerned "about what the Jones' would think" regarding her therapy. Geez, it's really something. It's like, "Honey, get help, but keep us out of it, we have an image of the good family to protect!" > It remains a lonely place. >
-----My family too would like to see me work my various problems out, but at the relevant times, not at the associated 'costs'. Maybe with them now getting worried about running out of time on this planet, they'd be willing to look at things they wouldn't previously. But I wouldn't put them through that at their age and it's probably not something they would need to hear about or be involved in anyway, as is kind of unavoidable in your situation. And as I say, I'm still not sure what if any part my experiences along the lines we are talking here affected me. But anyway...
When I told my mother a couple years after the fact that one of the incidents had been the family therapist they had taken us to, she robotically kept washing the dishes and made it clear she had nothing to say (sex even for the "right reasons" has always been a taboo subject in my parent's house). When I told my childhood best friend that the second instance had been her very popular 18 year old cousin when I was about 12, she became defensive for him and stated that he was SO popular that I should have been glad for the opportunity, like so many others would have been. Then she, being from that overall popular (cocktail circuit) family herself, did that thing where she went to school the next day and got a lot of kids to ostracize me. The third situation, which developed later, she witnessed several times, but I didn't bother complaining to her or anyone else at that point. It was her father, who would come home drunk and go after me when I was staying over. She would say "Please please just go along with him -- it'll be over quick and won't be that bad -- and otherwise he'll get very mad and may hurt us or (get this) yell and wake up the family!" ....
Thanks for letting me hijack your thread, sjb! I agree it has been enlightening. I still somehow don't think I "qualify" as a victim or deserve to feel bad, as weird as that may be. But this has given me a lot more to think about. So glad you have found what's right for you! Do you think your T will ever suggest confronting this man?
Posted by shadows721 on April 23, 2004, at 18:02:07
In reply to Re: Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?, posted by spoc on April 19, 2004, at 19:40:58
If it's sexual abuse, yes, it will affect a person. One may not have been "traumatized" by it, but it did affect them. It shapes who they are today.
Here an example: *poss. trigger*
A four year old goes in a store with her mom. She is in the toy section and sees a man behind her exposing himself to her. He follows her around the store. The child never tells her mom.
Yes, there will be an effect from this. The feelings shut down. The child does what it can at the time. Later in life, this young woman may go into stores and get scared for no reason. The reason is the "feelings" are being felt as an adult. Of course, there are other problems that may arise from this scenerio. Like, the woman may feel scared if she sees a man in a store and doesn't know why. To the child inside, stores, men and maybe even toys are considered not safe.
Even though, this child was never touched or told anything. This defiantly affected this child. Most sexual abuse victims shut down. They may remember things, but they still shut down some part of themselves. As for this woman, the child in her remembers how altimately scary this was to be stalked by a man exposing himself.
In this case, it was fear and domination. But, in others situations, it may have been enjoyment. This can lead to shame, panic attacks, revictimization, or anger problems later in life.
If the effect is not cognitively realized, it went into a form of denial for protection.
That's my thoughts.
Posted by spoc on April 24, 2004, at 10:58:08
In reply to Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?*pos trigg, posted by shadows721 on April 23, 2004, at 18:02:07
> If it's sexual abuse, yes, it will affect a person. One may not have been "traumatized" by it, but it did affect them. It shapes who they are today. > ..Yes, there will be an effect from this....Like, the woman may feel scared if she sees a man in a store and doesn't know why. To the child inside, stores, men and maybe even toys are considered not safe.> ...If the effect is not cognitively realized, it went into a form of denial for protection. >
---Wow, sometimes it clarifies things quite a bit to be reminded of connections like this, and that effects can show up in problems with things seemingly not related. I can think of some possibilities now, one of which is my long-standing fear of "cliques." Two of the incidents I talked about resulted from having spent my childhood and early adolescence around the most popular girl in town and her minions. It was through her family that I was exposed to those men, and her reaction to it all was either to have me ostracized or to tell me to accept what was happening, that it might even hurt us or her family if I made a fuss. I have never quite understood why I am so cautious of and quick to suspect the priorities and values of what I am also quick to label as "cliques;" because I do it even when most of the signs indicate that nothing is wrong or they even like me. I feel that something foreboding is in the wings and I back off, just in case. Maybe this is why. Good grief, if my last T had ever been able to help me see this himself, it would have been around the year 2010.
And along the lines of the story you told about the child in a store, I also never realized how that kind of thing could pan out in adulthood. Maybe/probably in these unfortunate times, most kids get exposed to something of that nature eventually in childhood years? I don't know, but that example opens up other seemingly minor incidents for me. Like being approached by two "redneck" looking men on a beach during a family vacation when I was, again, about 12; and having them make small talk for a couple minutes then ask me "how much?" It took awhile for me to have any idea what they were talking about, and then I protested, and one said "Uh huh, sure, right, I know better than that."
That had my head spinning for days, thinking at that age that nothing worse could possibly be said to a person, and what did I do to bring it on. Worse, I had indeed just recently been noticing that I was "developing" and was being intrigued by that. Maybe that's even why I soon went on to become overweight for several years following and intermittently since. And I still fight the strange call of slipping back into that cover, for the things it makes "easier."
Wow, lots to think about; maybe I really didn't entirely shape myself after all (not based on this alone of course). This is again where my last T (analyst) experience was a horrendous fit, and I should try again, probably soon. There was no "safety" with him. I am extremely forthcoming in a therapy setting with admitting to things that scare me about myself and make me wonder if I'm a bad person. But he would take those hard-won realizations on my part and seem to focus only on the 'bad character' part of it, rather than laying any groundwork that I was surely at least in part a product of my environment.
I quickly realized that if I confessed to a negative or possibly cold way that I view people or the world, like saying "sometimes I think I have no feelings," his subsequent sparse utterings would show he was stuck on a road of looking for a label to put on me. Rather than helping me examine the roots, and at least making me feel safe that the painful admission didn't actually mean I was a bad person; or had brought the thing on myself; or that it's necessarily what I am and what I do/don't feel at all, instead of just a mechanism by which I can hide from feelings.
This is the kind of reasoning I habitually displayed for him; I often felt like my self-awareness drew a road map for him that could have made our work soooo much easier. But he would never indicate that my reasoning or ability to figure some things out was good. So I started asking him, which he wouldn't answer either and made into another example of me caring too much what people think. As in, why would I want/need to know if what I just said or a lot of what I say makes sense and is sound reasoning? Is it not valid to ask your mental health counselor whether you seem to exhibit sound reasoning???? (????!!!!!) I can't *believe* he made 110% of our failure to connect MY problem.
Anyway I am not strong now even if I suspect my reasoning skills are indeed good. And I am terrified to find a new T and be painfully forthcoming again, and my tendency to qualify every feeling I admit to has increased a hundred fold through having an "expert" seem to view me this way. Sorry, didn't mean to digress! But you are such an astute observer, here and elsewhere. It has been very helpful, including reading what you post to others. :- )
Posted by shadows721 on April 24, 2004, at 11:36:52
In reply to Re: Sex abuse - effect even if not realized?*pos trigg » shadows721, posted by spoc on April 24, 2004, at 10:58:08
Spoc,
I am so glad you are making the connections. Everthing you said made perfect sense. It appears that you are really starting to understand how this abuse has affected you. You now have the power to decide what to do with what happened to you.
I think it's worth repeating. "You are an extremely intelligent person."
Posted by spoc on April 24, 2004, at 14:06:57
In reply to To: (spoc) re: aftermath of abuse, posted by shadows721 on April 24, 2004, at 11:36:52
> I am so glad you are making the connections. Everthing you said made perfect sense. It appears that you are really starting to understand how this abuse has affected you. You now have the power to decide what to do with what happened to you. > > I think it's worth repeating. "You are an extremely intelligent person."
-----
(Funny how I have a sense of conserving space in a post, of both collapsing it but also making my part in the script stand out, as if I'm afraid I'm taking up too much room but also am afraid I won't get seen or heard. Or, it could just be the OCD/perfectionism. Or, maybe that's what the underlying cause of the OCD is!! Or, maybe I should get out of my chair; move; and clean the apartment now on this sunny, lovely day. I've had such a splendid morning here!)Anyway, the ironic thing about my apparent ability to make connections but failure up til now to do so, is that it was by design. I have mostly resisted my natural interest in studying how the mind works, because I thought being naive would keep me fresher and more available to be struck by the TRUE causes of my problems should they present themselves. Rather than 'risking' reading about a lot of theories I may start to think apply to me, when they don't. Because my brain is flexible enough to do that. I also feared that I would start to sound like I read too many women's magazine articles, and start to spew pop culture "psychobabble," instead of making other kinds of conversation.
So, I've sheltered myself from being informed about how this stuff works to the extent that I even wound up in psychoanalysis for three months before I realized that this was a big part of my confusion over how things were panning out in itself. I told the T initially what I was looking for (somewhere between 'regular' psychotherapy and CBT); but *never* asked him if that was what he practiced! And he didn't tell me!
As far as getting any messages from the general public that I should supress my tendency to make connections, I probably am predisposed to thinking that message is being given me. But there is also an accurate component to it. I now live in a city with a huge social fast lane, where a majority of the singles are here for that reason. So there are big pockets of "Keep it simple and just have fun" thinking. I'm not out there talking about my own or anyone else's grave personal issues by any means, but I do have a hard time with small talk, and think "fun" is looking below the surface of things instead. Including with dead-on humor about myself and, tactfully, humanity in general (never personal to a casual acquaintance). And I think that puts some people off, or draws them in initially and then they realize it's simpler and easier elsewhere.
So here's an interesting insight along those lines that I saw in the archives and saved. I *hope* I do not sound headstrong in dangling this as applicable. It all makes a lot of sense to me, but here I refer mainly to the second part. Maybe I'll start a thread on this someday:
"...if you're (different) when you're a child you tend to see the world in a different manner, to feel detached from others and therefore to start *thinking* (in the attempt to solve your problems). On the other hand if you feel connected with the rest of the world (mom and dad and so on) you have no need to wonder yourself about anything."
* "Also the opposite seems true. if you're very clever people will find you strange (most people have an average IQ, by definition) and that could bring mental problems."*
Thanks for listening and sharing today, Shadows! ;- )
This is the end of the thread.
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