![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by tinydancer on April 10, 2004, at 1:17:42
In reply to Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 0:13:57
I understand this really well and it stresses me out too. It's like you got the session based on a certain criteria and it is very hard to know you have to adhere to that-almost like if you don't you won't "get" it.
But to be honest going with the phrasing you have described here, it sounds like she is trying to be accomodating rather than giving you a session based on conditions. I think that her phrasing is probably what made you feel the way you did, when on her end she was probably thinking it was important to validate your concerns by saying exactly what it was you "wanted".
By all means take this up in an email if it bothers you, though. I think you might feel better if you get it resolved before the appointment.
Posted by pegasus on April 10, 2004, at 1:28:58
In reply to Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 0:13:57
Hi crushed,
This sounds like one of those things where there are a lot of ways to interpret her words. It's interesting that you're interpreting it as putting a lot of pressure on you to perform to her expectations. You know her relatively well at this point, I think. So, maybe that's really what she's intending (that you talk about this particular issue that she's set out for you). Or maybe she meant something entirely different. Not knowing her, I wouldn't necessarily have interpreted her words the way you did. But I can also see how you might feel pressured.
So, are you saying that you don't want the session if you have to submit to her agenda? Or is the session itself beside the point? I was a little confused about which part confused you.
pegasus
Posted by Rigby on April 10, 2004, at 10:17:48
In reply to Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 0:13:57
Hi Crushed,
Wow--you are moving towards termination with her? What's up?
I agree with the others on this--it sounds to us like her language is fine but you know her better than we do.
If it were me I think basically I would have been secretively happy to get another session b/c I wanted to see her but if presumably the reason is to discuss leaving her it becomes painfully ironic.
I did a whole trip on leaving. Tried quitting four or five times. Real painful. If you're leaving because you feel obsessed, you can't get over her and you need to Get A Life I can completely relate. I think if my situation had dragged on for as long as it sounds like yours has I might have not only considered quitting but done it.
In my case I ended up admitting to myself that I wasn't ready to go. "They" always say that you know when you're done--you just are. Feeling now *sooooo* differently than I did a year ago I can finally "get" that. I've been out of the country so haven't seen my therapist for a few weeks and it's no biggie. Hugely different than a year ago--not even comparable to two years ago. I think one big thing for me was admitting to myself that I wasn't ready, admitting I was dependent and allowing myself to be okay with it. I think in some ways it helped to set me free of these uncomfortable feelings of longing I had for my therapist. Weird stuff the way this works.
Hope this helps a bit and take care.
Rigby
> I was only scheduled to see my T once next week because she's taking a day off, but last week I asked her if she could find an extra session for me so we could meet twice. She said she was booked so I asked her to let me know if anything opened up and she said she would.
>
> So, she emailed me today and told me she had a cancellation for Monday and that she'd pencilled me in. But she also said that she was "doing this especially so that we have time
> to talk about what is bothering you about me."
>
> Now this is precisely what I *wanted* to talk about, but the way she said this disturbs me because it feels like she's giving me the session on a *condition*, when she had already agreed to give me a session if one opened up, before I even brought up the whole termination issue. And now I feel really stressed out. I don't know what to tell her is "bothering" me "about" her, and I feel enormous pressure to come up with some kind of good explanation.
>
> I can't even quite put my finger on what seems wrong with this picture, but I almost feel like this email is the place I should start in addressing the issue. Am I crazy? Is there something wrong with the way she framed the offer of the session she had already agreed to give me?
>
> I feel really confused.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 10, 2004, at 10:55:18
In reply to Re: Extra session next week stressing me out » crushedout, posted by Rigby on April 10, 2004, at 10:17:48
Crushed,
Is it possible that your response to the way she framed the email is because you are anxious about talking with her about her? It sounds like you really wish to, but you said you didn't know what to say. That would make me anxious, I'm sure. Perhaps you and your T could explore together what is bothering you about the relationship. Would that feel safe? Or would it be better to work it out more yourself, first?Maybe you could do a little free associating here or on paper about your T. We could help you look at the pattern that might come out. Just start writing or typing anything that comes to mind about her. If the mind works the way many T's theorize, what is upsetting you will come out. The challenge is to find it in the pattern.
Good luck!
gg
Posted by fallsfall on April 10, 2004, at 10:59:15
In reply to Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 0:13:57
I agree that her wording is ambiguous. The more open and honest you can be with her right now the better off you will be. If the relationship should be salvaged, then being open will give it the best chance. If it *shouldn't* be salvaged, that will probably start being clear earlier if you are being open.
It is perfectly reasonable to say "When I got your email, I felt like you were pressuring me to prove that I have a real issue. I'm not sure that is what you intended, but that's how I felt."
When I started making fewer assumptions and flat out asked about things with my old therapist (like "did you know that I've been miserable and in pain for the last 4 months") rather than making assumptions (of course I assumed that she DID know - after all she was my wonderful therapist) that things started being much clearer. So I would think it would be to your advantage to double check things with her (both that make you feel good and that make you feel bad) just to be sure that you are interpreting things in the way she intends them to come across.
I know this is stressful for you. It will be stressful until you decide whether you should go or stay (and it will be stressful after that for a while, too). I needed to force myself to plow through the stress - there was no other way.
Cheering you on,
Falls.
Posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 16:11:33
In reply to Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 0:13:57
Crushed,
I'm sorry you are so stressed. But no matter what she had said in her email, I'm guessing you might be stressed because the topic you've been wanting to open up IS very stressful.
Can you reframe it for yourself as she has provided an easy opening to the real issue? Now you don't have to find a way to start...you both are going in with the expectation of this being the topic. I would recommend reading some of your old posts here before you go in. They are pretty clear about what is bothering you and why.
Keep busy during the weekend and don't over think things.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 19:04:17
In reply to Re: Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by DaisyM on April 10, 2004, at 16:11:33
Hey everyone,
We had the burial for my grandma today so I haven't been on the computer till now, and I'm in a hotel room with my uncle so I won't write much now.
Basically, I think there are two separate issues. One is that my T has known that I've wanted to see her more often for a couple months now, but she hasn't directly addressed whether she can give one to me. Each time it's a negotiation and a struggle for me, and it feels almost like she lords the possible extra session over my head. Often her lack of clarity about whether I can have it or not causes me great pain and even makes me want to hurt myself.
Now, she's promised me an extra session if one opened up, and here she is implying that the session has to be used for this certain reason, now that's it's become available. It shouldn't be conditional. I agree that what's bothering me about her would be a good thing to discuss, but the way she phrased makes me almost feel like I have no choice, like if I wasn't willing to talk about this topic, she wouldn't be willing to give me the session, even though she agreed to give me whatever time opened up when we first discussed the possibility of an extra session last week. It seems like some kind of power game she's playing. That's what it feels like. Does that make sense?
The second issue is just that yes, it stresses me out to address the topic because it's a hard topic. Since I was planning to address that topic, anyway, I would have been stressed regardless of this email, but this email adds to the pressure.
Posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 19:09:06
In reply to Re: Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 19:04:17
My friend's thoughts on how my T uses "extra" sessions:"it seems that this issue of the extra
session is really ugly with her. It shouldn't be something that she
uses either as a prize or safety net. She should give it to you
regularly if you want it regardless of the reason you want it or
where you are at [if she has the time]. And, even calling it an 'extra' session puts it in
this dynamic of her having something that you want that she can give
or not give depending on what she thinks/feels/wants. "
Posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 19:18:10
In reply to Re: Extra session next week stressing me out, posted by pegasus on April 10, 2004, at 1:28:58
Hi pegasus,I guess I was feeling confused about whether she was being manipulative or not. I've had the feeling a lot for the past few months that she's playing a game of smoke and mirrors with me, doing things that aren't blatantly manipulative or f'ed up, but are insidiously so, in a way that I can't really put my finger on. I *think* this is an example of that, but I can't be sure. I've stopped feeling like I can trust her or my own instincts. It's very disconcerting.
Oh, but I didn't interpret the email as putting pressure on me. I just happen to feel pressure. I interpret the email as letting me know that I'm getting the extra session because this issue is going on, and if I weren't she wouldn't give it to me. Which doesn't make sense to me from a therapeutic standpoint. It's not as if she's taking time out of her free time. It was a cancellation. So, why would she not give it to me otherwise if I felt I needed it, or even just wanted it?
> Hi crushed,
>
> This sounds like one of those things where there are a lot of ways to interpret her words. It's interesting that you're interpreting it as putting a lot of pressure on you to perform to her expectations. You know her relatively well at this point, I think. So, maybe that's really what she's intending (that you talk about this particular issue that she's set out for you). Or maybe she meant something entirely different. Not knowing her, I wouldn't necessarily have interpreted her words the way you did. But I can also see how you might feel pressured.
>
> So, are you saying that you don't want the session if you have to submit to her agenda? Or is the session itself beside the point? I was a little confused about which part confused you.
>
> pegasus
>
Posted by pegasus on April 10, 2004, at 20:28:11
In reply to here's how a friend of mine put it, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2004, at 19:09:06
Yeah, your friend's synopsis sounds right on from what you've said here. I wonder if your T is aware that she is doing this? Are you going to bring up those feelings in your "extra" session? It seems like it is tied in with the issues that you have with her, so you'd be on her prescribed topic anyway.
I agree that it's odd for a T to say something that sounds like you have to use a particular session for a particular topic. It sounds as if she might be frustrated that you haven't been getting into this topic recently, and she's eager to discuss it? Although, she could just say that, in a more open ended way, and let you pick the right time. Does she often direct what you'll talk about in your sessions? Or is it normally up to you? If it's the latter, then I can totally see how this is confusing, and feels manipulative. Although some Ts normally use a more directive approach, so then it wouldn't be out of line for her to say what she'd like for you to talk about. I think.
pegasus
Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2004, at 0:16:02
In reply to Re: here's how a friend of mine put it, posted by pegasus on April 10, 2004, at 20:28:11
If my T is aware she's doing this, then it's really messed up, so I hope she's not. Yeah, I guess I'm going to address these feelings in my "extra" session, and yes, it will be on topic. But I just feel really scared because it feels like I'm accusing her of something and she's going to get defensive and find a way of twisting it around back to me. Because she's good at that. And I'm not sure anymore if it's because it really *is* about me, or because she's manipulative. Like I said, I don't know who to trust (me or her, or neither), which is hard.Yes, she usually lets me decide completely what we talk about. That's why this seems really weird to me and I don't know what to make of it. It feels almost like she's giving me an ultimatum, which doesn't seem appropriate. And why is she doing that?
> Yeah, your friend's synopsis sounds right on from what you've said here. I wonder if your T is aware that she is doing this? Are you going to bring up those feelings in your "extra" session? It seems like it is tied in with the issues that you have with her, so you'd be on her prescribed topic anyway.
>
> I agree that it's odd for a T to say something that sounds like you have to use a particular session for a particular topic. It sounds as if she might be frustrated that you haven't been getting into this topic recently, and she's eager to discuss it? Although, she could just say that, in a more open ended way, and let you pick the right time. Does she often direct what you'll talk about in your sessions? Or is it normally up to you? If it's the latter, then I can totally see how this is confusing, and feels manipulative. Although some Ts normally use a more directive approach, so then it wouldn't be out of line for her to say what she'd like for you to talk about. I think.
>
> pegasus
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 8:46:17
In reply to Re: Extra session next week stressing me out » crushedout, posted by Rigby on April 10, 2004, at 10:17:48
Phew, I'm back home. Hey Rigby. Oh my it's kind of a long story, but you've guessed the gist of it (at least a big part of it, anyway). I guess since you were out of town you missed a chunk of what's been going on. Basically I just have been feeling like the therapeuticness of the relationship hasn't been there for a while. I feel like it does me more harm than good. That's it in a nutshell.> Hi Crushed,
>
> Wow--you are moving towards termination with her? What's up?
>
> I agree with the others on this--it sounds to us like her language is fine but you know her better than we do.
>
> If it were me I think basically I would have been secretively happy to get another session b/c I wanted to see her but if presumably the reason is to discuss leaving her it becomes painfully ironic.
>
> I did a whole trip on leaving. Tried quitting four or five times. Real painful. If you're leaving because you feel obsessed, you can't get over her and you need to Get A Life I can completely relate. I think if my situation had dragged on for as long as it sounds like yours has I might have not only considered quitting but done it.
>
> In my case I ended up admitting to myself that I wasn't ready to go. "They" always say that you know when you're done--you just are. Feeling now *sooooo* differently than I did a year ago I can finally "get" that. I've been out of the country so haven't seen my therapist for a few weeks and it's no biggie. Hugely different than a year ago--not even comparable to two years ago. I think one big thing for me was admitting to myself that I wasn't ready, admitting I was dependent and allowing myself to be okay with it. I think in some ways it helped to set me free of these uncomfortable feelings of longing I had for my therapist. Weird stuff the way this works.
>
> Hope this helps a bit and take care.
>
> Rigby
>
> > I was only scheduled to see my T once next week because she's taking a day off, but last week I asked her if she could find an extra session for me so we could meet twice. She said she was booked so I asked her to let me know if anything opened up and she said she would.
> >
> > So, she emailed me today and told me she had a cancellation for Monday and that she'd pencilled me in. But she also said that she was "doing this especially so that we have time
> > to talk about what is bothering you about me."
> >
> > Now this is precisely what I *wanted* to talk about, but the way she said this disturbs me because it feels like she's giving me the session on a *condition*, when she had already agreed to give me a session if one opened up, before I even brought up the whole termination issue. And now I feel really stressed out. I don't know what to tell her is "bothering" me "about" her, and I feel enormous pressure to come up with some kind of good explanation.
> >
> > I can't even quite put my finger on what seems wrong with this picture, but I almost feel like this email is the place I should start in addressing the issue. Am I crazy? Is there something wrong with the way she framed the offer of the session she had already agreed to give me?
> >
> > I feel really confused.
>
>
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 8:52:43
In reply to Re: Extra session next week stressing me out » crushedout, posted by Rigby on April 10, 2004, at 10:17:48
...it might help me to be more specific, since I'm going to have to try to articulate this to her later today. I feel like she's being manipulative, almost playing power games with me (especially with this whole "extra" session nonsense, which she has been kind of lording over my head), that her boundaries have been extremely unclear and not only that but shifting, and that I'm scared to make a move for fear of making her mad at me for needing her or making her feel overwhelmed or pressured (because she's told me I make her feel that way). At the same time, her distancing herself from me makes me want to chase after and kind of suffocate her, which only serves to make distance herself more. This may be something I've had a history of doing in real life relationships a long time ago, but isn't the therapist supposed to do more than just enact the f'ed up pattern but rather try to stop it? Show the client a new way of handling it? I don't know. It's super confusing for me right now. I feel like I can't trust anyone, including my own self.Oh, I also get the impression she doesn't like me anymore. Not just isn't attracted to me, but actually dreads seeing me. That's a crappy feeling (and may well be mostly my own paranoia, although a lot of the other stuff I'm sensing I think is real).
Posted by Rigby on April 12, 2004, at 9:25:15
In reply to Actually.... » Rigby, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 8:52:43
Hi Crushed,
This is definitely tricky--I can see your dilemna and how difficult this must be for you. How much is truly here/now and how much is your stuff *and* her stuff. A lot to tease out. Ultimately though you hit the nail on the head--if you feel she's not helping but possibly even making things worse you need to do something about it.
You sound *very* clear headed and that's great. You may want to even print what you wrote. I think what's really good is that you're willing to look at things in different lights: you're willing to see this as a here-and-now dynamic, you're willing to own your stuff if there's a dynamic being played out, you're also open to seeing if the responsibility also partially falls on her. I think seeing things from different lights and in shades of grey requires a great level of maturity.
My theory on re-enactment is that it tends to happen when there's transference. The therapist really just lets the script play out. So you feel like you get lots of food for thought but no help on digesting it. Frustrating. But working through this in my case I can say it's tres rewarding. But clean it is not. Nor is it real pleasant. Or fast.
I have had periods of not knowing who to trust during the grips of therapy and it scared the heck outta me because I've always trusted my instincts. It all comes back though. I think it's the brain and heart's way of challenging patterns that have been in place for a long time. It's scary. But sometimes the re-wiring is desparately needed (have you read A General Theory of Love?)
Keep writing, keep questioning, keep plugging away. From the sounds of *you* it sounds like you're making progress.
Let us know how it goes today.
Posted by terrics on April 12, 2004, at 11:08:52
In reply to Actually.... » Rigby, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 8:52:43
Hope everything works out for you so that no matter what happens [changing Ts or not]you feel safe and comfortable. terrics
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 16:29:45
In reply to Actually.... » Rigby, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 8:52:43
Well, I found out why my T (can we just call her “Ellen” for the sake of simplicity?) sent me that weird email basically dictating that our sessions this week be about what was bothering me about her. Last Monday, when I was feeling particularly desperate, I called another therapist -- a colleague of Ellen’s whose number Ellen had given me for a friend of mine -- to explore the possibility of switching to this other T (let’s call her “Dr. X”). Dr. X talked to me for awhile and I explained how I had gotten her number, the fact that Ellen didn’t know I was calling her, but that I wanted to explore the possibility of switching Ts because I wasn’t sure it was working out with mine. She kind of p’d me off because she said she didn’t think it was a good idea to talk until I had talked to Ellen about it (I explained that I felt I needed help just *talking* to Ellen about it and so that left me in a sort of catch-22) but what really bothered me was that she kept saying it was for my own good, but I knew it was because she didn’t want to step on her colleague’s toes. (I realize now it didn’t make much sense to call her in the first place -- if I’m going to switch Ts, I think I need one who doesn’t know my current one and who can be more objective.)
Anyway, Dr. X apparently told Ellen last week that I called her, just before Ellen sent me that weird email. Ellen told me today that she had been “alarmed and angered” by this news and that that was what made her realize she had to “insist” on us addressing the issues between us -- that everything else in my life (including my grandma’s death) she thought I could probably handle on my own, but that my feelings for her were really overwhelming me and were what I needed the most help with. I think she may be right about that, although I don’t think it needs to be that black and white. I also guess I understand why she might have been angry about my contacting Dr. X (although what justification Dr. X had for telling Ellen I called her I simply cannot imagine -- do you guys have any guesses? It seems really unfair and unhelpful to me), which is why I didn’t tell Ellen about it myself. After I called Dr. X, I felt that I’d betrayed Ellen even though I hadn’t said anything directly negative about Ellen, and I realized that if I told Ellen what I’d done she was going to be mad at me. So, I decided at least for the time being not to tell her.
So much more went on in the session that I still haven’t told you guys about, but I already feel I’ve overwhelmed you (and myself). So I’m going to stop there for now and take a few breaths. I’ll write more later. What do you guys think so far (if you have any thoughts)? The truth is, this whole Ellen/Dr. X issue is not very relevant at all to me, is it? Or is it? I dunno. I’m feeling like it’s overshadowing the rest of the session which was complicated and important. Any thoughts will be appreciated.
Posted by fallsfall on April 12, 2004, at 16:54:39
In reply to Today's session (a little long and wordy), posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 16:29:45
I went to SEE my old group therapist (who had been recommended by my old therapist). It was clear to my old group therapist and to me that what we talked about was confidential. My old group therapist told me that she couldn't see me a second time unless I had told my therapist - but she didn't have a problem seeing me once.
I did tell my therapist that I had been to see her, and my therapist seemed perfectly OK with that (though she wasn't interested in talking about me with my old group therapist - which I did offer to her). My therapist didn't get her back up until later when she realized that while I was interviewing with 4 other therapists that I told them all about our relationship. She wasn't thrilled with that. Hey, I just told the truth as I saw it, and she knew I was interviewing therapists - she gave me names of people to contact.
I think that it was incorrect for Dr. X to call Ellen. I think that it is immature of Ellen to be upset that you called Dr. X. She should be seeing the fact that you contacted Dr. X as an indication of the turmoil you are in, but she should NOT be angry. I think that she would be correct to *encourage* you to talk about your relationship, but I don't think that she should *require* that (though if you didn't want to talk about it, I would expect her to ask you why you didn't want to).
I'm interested in what else went on.
(((Crushedout)))
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 17:48:44
In reply to Re: Today's session (a little long and wordy) » crushedout, posted by fallsfall on April 12, 2004, at 16:54:39
Fallsfall, thanks for your post. Your thoughts on Dr. X and the issue of what I should talk about in therapy were very helpful to me. I’m really mad at Dr. X for telling Ellen, and I would like to know exactly what Dr. X said and how Ellen responded, whether Ellen thought it was kosher for Dr. X to do that, and what about it made Ellen angry, but I’m not sure this is worth addressing in therapy tomorrow. Maybe it is. It seems like it might end up making me focus too much on Ellen’s feelings and thoughts instead of my own, which is something I probably do too much as it is.
I can’t really seem to piece together what else happened in session today, even for myself, but let me try. I’m sure I’ll get this mixed up and out of order.
Ellen started out saying that we each had a dilemma. That I could either decide to learn from my strong feelings for her how I respond in relationships in which I love and need someone a lot (so that I could use that later on), or I could decide that those feelings are too overwhelming for me to deal with and that I needed to set them aside for now (and could come back to her later when I felt ready to deal with them). (I'm not sure how this is *her* dilemma, but it certainly is mine. Except that I also have the option of addressing those feelings, to the extent that I can, with someone else. I guess tomorrow I should ask her what she thinks of *that* option. I haven't been clear with her on the fact that I'm still planning to continue therapy with someone, although she might have gathered that from Dr. X.)
She said that she felt like I spend my sessions talking about stuff that was going on in my life, and then at the very end of the session, I’d, for example, ask her something about herself, she’d answer me, and then her answer would make me feel so upset that I’d go home and SI. She said, “I can’t work with that.” That she needed me to talk through the feelings I was having about her instead spending the session talking about other stuff and then going home and feeling devastated about her and dealing with it in self-destructive ways. This kind of makes sense to me although I think you’re right that it’s not quite right for her to dictate it in this way (rather than suggesting it as something that would be better for *me*).
I told her that I didn’t think it had to be all or nothing, that I could talk about other stuff going on in my life and also try to talk more about my feelings about her, and that that was part of why I kept asking her for a third session lately, because I felt I needed more time in order to do that. She said she disagreed because I often spend 40 minutes out of a 45-minute session dissociating and wasting time, which I pointed out didn’t make any sense. First, I don’t dissociate on purpose (her response: “I’m sure it doesn’t *feel* like you’re doing it on purpose.” -- argh). And second, part of why I thought I was dissociating was the panic I felt at not having enough time and also the fact that I wasn’t getting my needs met.
Then she started talking about the needs I had that she couldn’t meet, and I stopped her, saying while it’s true that there were certain needs I had that she *couldn’t* meet, I was actually talking about needs I had that I thought she *could* meet but that she wasn’t meeting. She said like what. I said, “Like, for example, having clear and consistent boundaries.” So, we spent the rest of the session talking about how she could try to better meet that need, which she agreed she could and should meet, and that that would be helpful to me.
First, we talked about the extra session issue, how I felt like she lorded that over my head and used it to manipulate me. She said it was true that she used it to manipulate me, and asked me why that bothered me. I was kind of dumbfounded. I couldn’t think of a reason why it should bother me, rationally. She said she used it to try to manipulate me to not SI and to express my feelings, as a sort of reward (?) when I expressed myself in a productive way. Help? I know this seems wrong but I’m not sure why.
She also explained that one of the reasons she was hesitant to schedule me for a regular third session was because she had a small practice and if she gave me that time, she would not have it available if a new patient called, and if I were to leave her, she would not only have to deal with the emotional loss, but also a relatively large hole in her practice. So she basically would like to spread out her time among more patients so she’s not as dependent financially on each one, I guess. My friend thought this was an inappropriate thing for her to tell me, but I *think* it’s ok, although it made me feel bad frankly.
We also talked about boundaries with regard to phone calls and emails. I said I felt it would be helpful if I knew when and under what circumstances it was okay to call or email her. She said when I contacted her with something big and amorphous (for example, if I emailed her about a dream I’d had), it was too overwhelming for her to deal with outside of a session. She was flooded with reactions, questions, and her own emotional responses but had no space to express them in. But that if, for example, I called her saying, “I feel like SI’ing, I’ve tried to write, do other things, etc., but still can’t get rid of the urge, do you have any suggestions?” she was more capable of responding and not getting overwhelmed because it’s a discrete issue she feels competent to address quickly. (I’m not sure how good an example this was to give me since it might unwittingly encourage me to have urges so that I can call her, when not so coincidentally, my urges often stem from wanting contact with her -- but she said she was thinking out loud, so I assume she just didn’t think this through.)
That’s kind of what we talked about in a nutshell, although I’m sure there’s a lot of it I’m leaving out. I felt sad at the end of the session. And confused. She looked really beautiful today and that frustrated me. And I'm just not sure whether I want to terminate or not.
Last Friday, btw, I made an appointment for a week from today with yet another therapist -- this one, as far as I know, doesn’t know Ellen, and she comes highly recommended from a friend. I talked to her on the phone and I really liked her immediately. She seemed smart and very kind and understood what the issue was right away. I didn’t tell Ellen about her today, but I have another session tomorrow. Do you think it’s important I tell Ellen about her then?
Hopefully this other T will be able to help me sort out whether I should terminate or not and things will become clearer. She understands that that's where I am right now, and sounds like she really wants to help me.
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 18:17:29
In reply to More on today's session (really long) » fallsfall, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 17:48:44
I'm so ticked that I'm tempted to call Dr. X and confront her for doing this. We left it that when I was able to discuss the issue with Ellen, I could call her back and we could set something up. I did *not* give her permission to discuss me with Ellen (although she wanted it). And it was clear (at least to her) that this was something I was going to try to bring up with Ellen when I worked up the nerve. So how dare she pre-empt me like that? And what a dumb idea. What could possibly have been the purpose?
I'm just so mad.
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 18:23:39
In reply to Dr. X, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 18:17:29
darn it. now you all know my T's real name. Dinah, is it possible to go back and fix it (in my previous post)? please?
Thank you so much. if not, oh well.
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 18:43:35
In reply to Re: Today's session (a little long and wordy) » crushedout, posted by fallsfall on April 12, 2004, at 16:54:39
Just to defend my T (as I always seem compelled to do), I think she was mad at me for calling Dr. X because it made her look bad to a colleague, which, in retrospect, I think might have been a small part of why I did it. Although I didn't say anything directly negative about her, it still might raise an eyebrow or two (the fact that I wanted to terminate with her, and also the fact that -- as I told Dr. X -- she disagreed with me, which I thought at the time, about the advisability of terminating.
But maybe you're right that she shouldn't have been mad about that, since it really shouldn't imply that she did anything wrong. This makes me wonder even more what Dr. X said to her. Alright, I have to stop obsessing about this.
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2004, at 20:53:25
In reply to dinah help!, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 18:23:39
Should've worked. You have to refresh the post first. If it didn't email me at bullyforyou77 at yahoo.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 12, 2004, at 21:17:10
In reply to More on today's session (really long) » fallsfall, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 17:48:44
Crushed,
It sounds like a really difficult yet perhaps productive session. I really admire you for dealing with this. I do think it is perfectly fine for you to be seeking a new T. Some T's refuse to see someone who is currently seeing another T out of professional courtesy. But I think Dr. X calling Ellen and telling her about your session went beyond that and was wrong. At best, Dr. X should have encouraged you to talk to Ellen about it and left it to you to inform her.> That she needed me to talk through the feelings I was having about her instead spending the session talking about other stuff and then going home and feeling devastated about her and dealing with it in self-destructive ways.
I agree with you that this may be a way of holding up the work in therapy, but if you do it, I think it likely is more unconscious on your part. Even if not, she should be working with you on why this is so, rather than telling you you are not doing therapy "right".
> I said, “Like, for example, having clear and consistent boundaries.” So, we spent the rest of the session talking about how she could try to better meet that need, which she agreed she could and should meet, and that that would be helpful to me.Good for you!!!!!
> She said she used it to try to manipulate me to not SI and to express my feelings, as a sort of reward (?) when I expressed myself in a productive way. Help? I know this seems wrong but I’m not sure why.
I can see using the principles of reinforcement in working with a client, especially is you are working from a behavioral model. But outright stating she was manipulating you can't help but be offensive, in my opinion. I think I would rather have explained the principle. Her using the word manipulation seems to suggest to me that she has some personal investment in the outcome. Other that as your T, that should not be so.
>
>
> Last Friday, btw, I made an appointment for a week from today with yet another therapist -- this one, as far as I know, doesn’t know Ellen, and she comes highly recommended from a friend. I talked to her on the phone and I really liked her immediately. She seemed smart and very kind and understood what the issue was right away. I didn’t tell Ellen about her today, but I have another session tomorrow. Do you think it’s important I tell Ellen about her then?This sounds really positive. You sound much more in command of your needs and your therapy than you have in the past. I hope that feels good to you in some way. I think it is up to you about telling Ellen, but I also think that it is better to come from you than from someone else. You certainly have the right to explore all of your options. If Ellen personaly gets mad at that, that is HER issue, not yours.
>
> Hopefully this other T will be able to help me sort out whether I should terminate or not and things will become clearer. She understands that that's where I am right now, and sounds like she really wants to help me.Yeah crushed! I know this is really hard, but I think you are handling it wonderfully.
Take care and please keep us posted,
gg
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 21:33:44
In reply to Re: dinah help! » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 12, 2004, at 20:53:25
Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2004, at 21:47:12
In reply to Re: More on today's session (really long) » crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on April 12, 2004, at 21:17:10
> Yeah crushed! I know this is really hard, but I think you are handling it wonderfully.
thanks, gg! it's so good to keep hearing that because it *is* really hard.
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