![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 76. Go back in thread:
Posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 23:46:59
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » Karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2004, at 22:23:16
Well, I think you do have to fight. Just my uneducated opinion, you understand.
*I understand :) But, I'm afraid if I do actually say no, it's going to be BAD! And I mean B-A-D, bad! Like, me stomping my feet, and screaming so loud that everyone in the building can hear it, and ripping off my clothes hmmm >) well, you get the idea... I mean this has been building for quite a while, you know. And I don't think that it will just come out with me whimpering a simple "Please sir, kindly stop what you're doing." Oh no! I could be wrong, and I hope I am. Maybe I'm just being overly dramatic, but I really hate not being in control. And I fear losing control even more. And in that situation I feel like I have absolutely NO control. And if I have the power to take it back, I will. But, I just can't....
But, if I go in and say I don't want to talk about my father then he'll accuse me of avoiding the issue. He's done it before. I said I didn't want to get too heavy into it before finals, for good reason as I had finals. He said that he could understand why but that I just keep trying to put it off. If not now, then when. It isn't that I keep avoiding it, it is just that it is ALL we talk about. It is ALL I think about. It consumes my life. He seems to think that I can resolve this issue before I leave this town (in 1.5 years). I disagree. I do need to get things figure out. I have a very bad memory, to the point that I have a hard time remembering my age, I can't remember names for anything, ect... I can't even remember the house I grew up in and we didn't move at all. So, it it obviously affecting me and I need to deal with it. I just don't think the way we are dealing with it is right. It is just causing me to retreat and to be anxious and to dislike my therapist. It's causing me to not want to deal with it even more. At first, I was determined to "figure it all out." No matter what, I didn't care. I figured not knowing was worse than knowing. Now, I just want to stop. The anxiety is too much. My jaw hurts! :( I just want to unclench it, and it has been clenched for almost a month. Can you make it stop???? (Please wave your magic wand here, please...)
I'd never ask my therapist if he was annoyed by my calls. I'd be too afraid of his answer. I actually had to call him this week to change my appointment (something I vowed to never do after he didn't return my last call!!!) and he was sweet as pie on the phone. I wasn't though! I won't call him in the event of an emergency. I have my Pdoc's number and I also have a crisis number for the place he works. I'd prefer Not to talk to him if I need someone to speak with. I think he's having some countertransference issues or something going on, seriously! But, he's always reassuring me that I don't call too much, which I know. I never even ask him, he just volunteers the info. I think I've called him maybe 5 times to "talk" and maybe 7 times to schedule or rschedule appointments. I just don't want to get too close to him. I don't want him to think that I "like" him in any way. I mean we've totally discussed transference issues candidly without a problem. But, I don't want to take a chance that I become dependent on therapy. I don't want to take a chance that he lets me down. I'm keeping him at arm's length. I hope he knows it too! Serves him right. If he didn't screw up all the time, maybe I'd be a better client. (I didn't mean all of that, it's just my way of justifying it!)
I wish I had your strength - I walk in his office with "weak and dependent" written all over me. Wanna trade a bit? I'll give you some weak and dependent and you can give me some strength?
*You can gladly have some of my so-called strength. But, I don't want to be weak and dependent. (no offense) We can just throw that away, ok?
Thanks fallsfall, thanks fallsfall, thanks fallsfall thanks! [That's me thanking you! I really appreciate it!]
I see him tomorrow! Wish me luck and hope he doesn't put me away :) (And he did do that once, stupid jerk!)
Posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2004, at 8:19:47
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 23:46:59
OK. I understand the losing control and yelling and screaming. I would just collapse in a puddle, but I can see how you would yell and scream. And I can see how losing control like that would be scary.
Can you tell him that you want to tell him to stop when he's talking about your father, but that you're afraid of yelling and screaming. You can talk about losing control for a while and what that means (that will waste some time). So you want to tell him to stop BEFORE he starts talking about your father. That you are not trying to avoid talking about your father - that you are taking a conscious step to set a limit and tell him to stop. But that for today, you have to do that before he starts. Maybe on another day you can tell him after he starts talking about your dad. If you tell him WHY you don't want to talk about him - BECAUSE you are setting a limit and taking control, it might work.
Or when he says "Have you thought about your father?" you can say "STOP" then, before it gets any farther? Or maybe that is for a couple of weeks from now.
I understand the terror. Believe me. Facing the transference and breaking through it was SOOOOOOOO hard to do. It was incredibly painful and absolutely terrifying. But, you know what? I did it and I came out the other end. And I'm proud of myself. And it makes therapy easier because I'm not so terrified that he's mad at me all the time. And I can ask when I need reassurance - and he's so sweet about giving me reassurance.
It is SOOOOOOOO hard. But... isn't the way you are living SOOOOOOOO hard? It's like taking off a bandaid - you can do it S_L_O_W_L_Y or you can do it FAST, but you HAVE to do it. And you will be so relieved when it is done.
it is a little hard to type with my fingers crosses (and yes, they are crossed right now) - so go for it!!!!!!
Falls-on-your-side
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 15:21:06
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 23:46:59
>>>Like, me stomping my feet, and screaming so loud that everyone in the building can hear it, and ripping off my clothes..
So what if you did? I mean, really. And it is pretty unlikely that you will COMPLETELY lose control -- I bet you at least leave you clothes on!
I understand your fear. For me, losing control, even if it is control of the time in the session, sends me over the edge. But, maybe you could ask him what he would do if you lost control? I told my Therapist that I was afraid to cry because there was so much to cry about I was afraid I'd never stop. He said "I know. But I'm afraid you'll never feel safe enough to start. And that is worse." I even had a dream that he asked me to leave because I started to cry. I told him about the dream and he said it meant that I still didn't feel safe, and that made him sad.
I agree with Falls...this is transference, BIG TIME. I like the idea of the card, make it and take it with you! Tell yourself that you are not a little kid anymore and YOU have control over this second. And then this minute. And then the next 5 minutes. Slowly you will build up to it.
Let me know how today went. I'm thinking about you.
-D
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 16:55:45
In reply to It is OK to lose control » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 15:21:06
Oh, that is so *nice*. I think I like your therapist. If I ever lose mine, and Pfinstegg's isn't available, can I share him?
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
In reply to It is OK to lose control » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 15:21:06
We talked. And talked. And it lasted forever. I told him that I didn't like him and that I didn't trust him. He asked if that was really true. I said that I did like him but that sometimes I trusted him but sometimes I don't.
I told him how much it upset me that he thought I was playing some sort of joke on him and he didn't call me back. I told him that it actually made me cry, and it did. He said that in the past "girls" have called him with their friends laughing in the background and he thought it was the same situation. I told him that it hurt me that he thought I would want to waste his time like that. And it did HURT me. And I swear I thought he was going to cry! He aid he was sorry and I believe him. I guess we all make mistakes, I'll let it go but when he makes me mad in the future, I'll bring it up because I'm like that. I wish I wasn't but I am.
He also said that he puts me in the situation where I need to be more assertive and say that I don't want to discuss the matter and further. And I told him that hurts me to. That he's jsut reaffirming in my head that I can't trust men, that they just continue to "set me up" and put me in situations that I have no control.
He said that he cared about me...Ahhh!!! Isn't that sweet??? And that he isn't going to hurt me. That our relationship is different than others I've had in the past. But, I don't believe him. So, sat there for about 5 minutes and processed it. But, this time I told him what I was thinking afterwards (YAHOO!!!!! I did it!!!) I said.. Well, I know that he won't hurt me. And I know why I don't trust men. And I know that logically he can't hurt me, but he's caused me alot of pain. Before I came in, I adored my father. And I still do, honestly. I'm able to seperate things. But, I just can't trust him because I think and *feel* like he's going to hurt me. And I feel like his motivations behind everything he says are manipulative. And I told him I'm just projecting my feelings, I realize this, logically. But, I just feel this way. I an't help it. I want to change it, I really do... I just don't know how... I told him that it would be helpful if before he said something he would make a statement explaining the motivations behind it. He said that then he would be giving away the tricks of the trade....
He said that my anxiety is from the last dream I had. It makes sense. That is when it started. It was a powerful dream. And it coincides with a memory that was brought up to. He says that it is my defences trying to say, "It's too early for you to remember this, you aren't ready yet." That makes sense as well. I've been avoiding thinking about the dream.
He says that if I feel that he is pushing me too hard then he will back off. But, maybe he isn't really. Maybe it is just me trying to avoid everything, as I am apt to do.
He's a really good therapist. I think I'm going to write him a thank you card now :) It was a good session. I have to call to reschedule, as I didn't have my class schedule with me. He said, I promise I'll call you back. And I believe him. I want so much to trust him. It is just so very hard. And he wants me to cry. But like you said, if I cry about the things I should cry aobut, I'm afraid I'll never stop. If I *feel* like I should about hte things I should feel about, I'm afraid I'll go insane. It's so much easier not to feel anything about the things I should feel, you know? I mean, I don't even know how I should feel aobut what happened to me. I don't want to feel bad things about my father or my mother for what happened to me because I'm afraid I won't be able to seperate those feelings from the love I have for those people. And I DO love my father. I love him so very much. And I miss him and wish he was still alive. I'd live through all of that again, jsut to have more time with him.
There, now I'm crying... Where's Mark when I need him?? :)
Posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 17:26:48
In reply to Neurontin, Take me away! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
I haven't corresponded w/you before but I do want you to know how wonderful I think you are. You are very brave and you are taking the steps you need to--no matter how hard or impossible they may be.
I speak from experience. I haven't written this here before but maybe it's time. My father died 12 years ago. I was very close to him most of my life; he was my world when I was a little girl and I cared for him while he was dying. It wasn't until after he died that I started to realize/remember/acknowledge (whatever you want to call it) that he sexually abused me when I was a very young child. Everything was clouded by how much I loved him. My initial defense was that if I couldn't remember it, it didn't really happen, and it took my therapist many years to convince me to believe in myself and what I was remembering. There were just too many signs to ignore.
I now remember a lot more of what happened to me. I truly believe I could never have done this while he was still alive. While I have snapshots of memories the hardest part has been trying to get in touch w/my feelings about all this. I mean I loved my father more than anyone and how could someone who loved me have done these things to me?? I have been doing EMDR to reach the feelings and (un)fortunately it has really worked. I remember how badly I felt, how shamed and disgusted I felt--I never felt badly about him.
Today I had my EMDR session and it was very hard. My T was trying to get me to reach the anger, the anger that every single T, friend, counselor, etc. has said that I have but which I cannot acknowledge or let go of, or let out. I am too afraid to let the anger come out because I am afraid that I will lose control. We talked a lot about losing control. You know, the old "what's the worst that could happen" talk. I don't know what the worst is but I cannot face it, it is much too frightening. My T says that's the little girl talking and I am safe now, but it still feels exactly the same. It's as if I let the anger out then all the walls and defenses I have so carefully constructed will come tumbling down. And if the walls come down, what do I have left?
My regular therapist says that we will go as slow as I need to. But after 12 years, even I think it's about time I let it go. I still can't seem to do that, which leads me to believe that there is still so much I don't know and so much I still have to be afraid of.
As to my mother, I haven't told her about all this because I haven't wanted that relationship to change. I'm not strong enough for that either. Again, I love her very much.
In any case, you are not alone. My biggest obstacle has been reconciling my feelings of great love for my father with the beast that he would become when he came into my room at night.
I hope this isn't too much for you. I wish you well--you are doing a really good job.
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:28:34
In reply to Re: It is OK to lose control » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 16:55:45
Ok, but only if you agree to *not* be a more perfect client than me.
Perfection, BTW, was the topic of conversation today. He agree's I'm perfect. He just doesn't agree that this is a good thing! :)
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:40:55
In reply to Neurontin, Take me away! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
Karen -- here is my shoulder and I'm wearing cashmere -- it is soft and cuddly and you can stay as long as you need/want...
It sounds like a really hard, really good session. I'm proud of what you did and did so well! Good for you! You made him think and that is huge.
Trust is an ambiguous creature. It can be fleeting and it has so many levels. You'll get there. Think of the trust it took to say the things you said today.
I know you miss your dad. This is really hard and so confusing. It is totally ok to love and miss HIM and hate the things that happened. My Therapist today told me healing takes a really, really long time. We (I love that he says we!) have to grieve it all first and then begin to move past it. And stay sane while we do this. So slow is the best course of action.
Figuring out the source of your anxiety is a good step towards resolving it. Tonight and tomorrow will probably be hard but keep posting and writing. We are here for you.
Warm thoughts.
-D
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:50:57
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 17:26:48
antigua,
Your post was very brave. It sounds like you have had quite a struggle. I'm sorry for all that you have gone through.
I'm curious, have you thought about telling your mom? My Therapist asked me recently if I would ever tell mine. Emphatically, the answer is NO. I can't see what good it would do. I'm sure it would just cause more disruption.
Having a loving relationship with your father, aside from the abuse, really makes it more confusing, don't you think? My dad, BTW, is still living. He happens to live pretty far away from me though so I don't see him much. But in the past 20 years we have gotten so much closer. I feel like all that is threatened now that I'm trying to sort out how the past is affecting the present, especially my current ability to cope with life.
I wish you well on your journey.
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 17:54:21
In reply to Re: It is OK to lose control » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:28:34
LOLOLOL
You have my absolute positive word that I won't be more perfect than you. In fact you'll be able to assure yourself he has a worse client than you, no matter what.
My therapist told me today not only that he was angry with me, but that I could be really annoying sometimes. He then said that I wasn't so annoying that he didn't like me or didn't want to be my therapist, and added that everyone was really annoying sometimes. And that I got really annoyed with him sometimes too.
All of which is true. So why do I feel so cr*ppy?
Posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 18:09:24
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:50:57
OK, I'm new at this. My message was for both you and Karen.
Daisy, thanks for responding. Yes, I've thought of telling my mother. Actually there was a day when I called my therapist to tell her that I knew I would never get over this until I did speak w/her about it. She was thrilled! But I'm not ready to do that yet. My brother was also sexually abused when he was a teenager by someone other than my father, actually by a well-respected, well-known educator/lawyer who my mother brought into our midsts after my father left. My brother confronted my mother years later and she denied that she knew anything about it, despite the fact that she knew that a young boy actually slept in the same room/bed as the creep (this guy makes Michael Jackson almost look sane!).
In any case, the relationship between my brother and mother has been ruined. He doesn't believe she didn't know (kind of the same w/me, how could she not have at least been suspicious?) and she thinks he is just being "awful". I'm not ready to give up my relationship w/her right now. But I know this is key. Maybe I'm hoping she will die before I have to do this? Isn't that a horrible thought?
Thanks for listening,
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 18:10:50
In reply to Re: It is OK to lose control » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 17:54:21
You feel crummy because WE are allowed to say we are annoying, etc. but they aren't suppose to confirm it! But, you should take it as a huge compliment that he trusts you enough to tell you. I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't because he knows I would bolt.
It must be in the Therapist's manual to tell clients something like this in January. Very *VERY* gently today my Therapist talked about how he thought it was so great that I came back today and that I should think about being open to adding a few extra sessions here and there due to the level of stress I'm under and the stuff we are dealing with. He also said "I know this probably freaks you out on a variety of levels."
I reminded him of my fear of becoming the classic "pain in the a**" client -- and now look what was happening. He laughed and said I was NOT a pain the a** but it would be ok with him if I was from time to time. Or that I might at least try to get closer to it!
*sigh* So now in order to be the perfect therapy client, I'm suppose to be a pain in the a**! I can't win!
What did you do that made him mad?
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 18:55:05
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 17:26:48
Wow! It seems we are in the same situation, except you are way past me :( My father died of cancer and he died when I tried to move him. And I still feel guilty that it is my fault that he died. I know logically that it isn't but still, you know?? So, when I started therapy the ONLY thing positive I had from my childhood was memories of my father. Then I started to remember small things that happened, which led to nightmares and flashbacks. And I'm still trying to convince myself that it isn't real, that these things didn't happen. That the nightmares and flashbacks are just symptoms from medication or dpepression, except I'm finally not depressed. So, I know logically that it is true. It does add up. I just don't want to believe it. I want my mother to be the bad guy, not my father. Never mind that the same thing happened to my sister as well. And my other sister is suffering from severe memory loss too. I'll just ignore that because I LOVE my daddy!
And I could never tell my mother, NEVER!! When my sister told her, she got kicked out of the house. Noone believed her, and she was a child. I believed her, though at the time, I wasn't aware of anything going on with me. But, I always believed her. And I wish I could talk to my other sister, to help her but she would deny it. The thing is, I was daddy's favorite. It's just strange the way things work. And it makes me feel even worse because I just don't feel like I KNOW for SURE, you know???? Like I need to SEE it to be absolutely POSITIVE. Maybe I wouldn't want to see it. That would just be too much. I just don't trust my memory and I don't trust myself. Maybe I just don't want too!
Thank you for sharing your story. I do so appeciate it, honestly! It helps to know that someone else has a story similar to mine. Please keep posting, PLEASE!!! :)
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 19:12:43
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:40:55
> Karen -- here is my shoulder and I'm wearing cashmere -- it is soft and cuddly and you can stay as long as you need/want...
*I adore cashmere :) But my makeup might smear on it. Do you want to rethink your offer? :)
It sure is sweet though. I'm feeling much better now that I have anxiety meds, and I don't have to take 1800 mgs like I did in the past. That's really nice!!
> It sounds like a really hard, really good session. I'm proud of what you did and did so well! Good for you! You made him think and that is huge.*It was a really good session I think. It made us both think about some things. I've really been shutting down during the sessions and I think talking to him may help him realize why. I got a lot out of the session. I hope he did too! He thanked me for pointing some things out to him to "help him be a better therapist" and I told him I'll have a whole list next week :) I'm mean sometimes!
> Trust is an ambiguous creature. It can be fleeting and it has so many levels. You'll get there. Think of the trust it took to say the things you said today.*I know I trust him or I wouldn't be able to tell him the things I do. It's easy to say things on the computer because you aren't staring at someone face to face. But to look someone in the eye and tell them your "secrets", that takes trust. It's just that sometimes I trust him less than others. And it's not entirely his fault...
> I know you miss your dad. This is really hard and so confusing. It is totally ok to love and miss HIM and hate the things that happened. My Therapist today told me healing takes a really, really long time. We (I love that he says we!) have to grieve it all first and then begin to move past it. And stay sane while we do this. So slow is the best course of action.*Your therapist sounds wonderful! It sounds like you have a great relationship together. I think that my biggest problem is that I still deny, in my heart, that it happened. I know that it did. But I still don't accept it. I'm still waiting for more proof. I don't know exactly what I'm expecting, but I am still waiting. I guess I j still just don't want to believe it.
>
> Figuring out the source of your anxiety is a good step towards resolving it. Tonight and tomorrow will probably be hard but keep posting and writing. We are here for you.*Yes, I know. I really didn't even consider that dream to be the source. I mean it is just a stupid dream. But, looking back, I can see how it could cause me such anxiety. I need to quit avoiding it and start thinking about it. I just don't want to. Will you do it for me? PLEASE??? I'll pay you a dollar :)
>
> Warm thoughts.
> -DThank you sweetie! Your posts help out so much! You really can't know how much! Did you go today? Are you feeling better hun? I hope so! I'm thinking about you as well. I didn't think I'd get so wrapped up in ths place, but it seems I am. And I'm glad :)
Karen
Posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 20:01:40
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 18:55:05
I always have felt responsible for my father's death too because I was the one who gave the order to initiate the morphine. He had heart failure and he had given me that task of deciding when. But we both knew he would quickly slip into a coma and die once the order was given. So rationally I know I didn't kill him, but there is some part of me that still thinks I'm responsible.
I know what you mean about sisters. I have one older sister who has disliked me my entire life. I mean she has really hated me since I was kid and I never ever knew why. My whole family will agree that she has always been really mean to me. Well, I finally figured out why she hates me so much. She's not aware of this yet (she's focused on hating my mother but doesn't really know why, but I do) but I'm sure my father abused her too and once he turned from her to me she was just so angry. I need to discuss this w/my sister because she needs to know, but at the moment she is really unstable and as I said, she really doesn't like me very much.
Oh the trials and tribulations... I will keep posting. This was actually really hard to do, I didn't think it would be, but it does hurt when you say it out loud here.
Best,
antigua
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 20:13:41
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 20:01:40
Luckily, my sisters and I love each other very much. We talk almost daily. It seems we only had each other growing up, so we still have very strong bonds.
I'm sorry you and your sister don't get along as well as you'd like. It's hard to talk about these thngs. I finally was able to talk to the sister that it happened to. And she called me back that day crying, saying that if she had stayed then it wouldn't have happened to me. We both know that isn't true. But I felt bad for telling her because now she feels guilty and I don't want that either. The only problem is that she talked to my aunt, who then called me... And now I'm really anxious about that as well.. And people wonder why I have problems trusting??? Sheesh!!It does hurt to *say* it here. And sometimes I reread my posts and I wonder "Who wrote that? Where was I" I honestly don't remember any of it. It is a truly strange feeling indeed! But, it is nice to get it out, and to know I'm not alone in this. And it is really nice to know there is someone else out there listening, not jsut pretending to listen. I'm tired of that. I'm tired of paying someone to listen to me speak! Thank you all for listening! It sure is nice :)
Posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2004, at 22:44:14
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 20:13:41
Karen,
I am so proud of you.
You did a great job today. It took a lot of courage to talk to him and tell him how you were really feeling.
Trust is really hard, particularly when people have violated our trust in the past.
Yeah, Karen. Yeah, Karen. Yeah, Karen, Yeah!!!!!
Posted by Karen_kay on January 7, 2004, at 10:17:13
In reply to Hard work » Karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2004, at 22:44:14
Fallsfall...
Thank you for being proud of me. And thank you for the posts. It was hard to tell him how much he hurt my feelings. And it was hard to tell him how I've been feeling lately. But, I'm glad I did. The thing is, I'm not sure I would have except as the appointment started a nurse came in and handed me a script for my anxiety medication. And he asked about it :( So, I couldn't lie any longer... Darn it! I was caught red-handed. I think I was just going to contiune with the lie that I was fine except that the nurse had to give me my script. It's a good thing she did in a way.And trusting him is really hard. I trust him sometimes. But sometimes I don't. I wish I could trust him all of the time. But that's hard to do. Maybe one day. But I can't honestly say I trust anyone completely either. There isn't anyone that I trust completely. I don't even trust myself, how can I trust someone else?
Thanks for cheering me on!
How are you doing? Hope your therapy is going well. Your day is coming. I FEEL it. I'm sending you strength. Can you feel it. I'm getting weaker by the second, you should be feeling stronger as you read this....
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2004, at 16:58:02
In reply to Neurontin, Take me away! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
Good work, Karen. I hope you're proud of yourself. :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 20:21:59
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 18:55:05
This is such a tough issue. I am in the same boat as the other people here who are trying to deal with abuse issues in therapy- all kinds, really- physical, sexual and maternal neglect. I really know what you are saying: we all seem to have a high level of emotional distress, but it is not directly connected to the actual abuse incidents. I also tend to recount these (to the extent that i know them) in an emotionless manner. I wonder, myself, where is the fear, anger and outrage which should be associated with these terrible things?
One approach which my analyst takes is to consider that the little girl who underwent these things is much more dissociated from the grown-up me than I ever realized. At the moment, we are working to establishing basic safety on the little girl's part. This involves a lot of fantasy, wishes and hopes which he has encouraged the little girl inside me to express. They are such simple little things; for example, today I fantasied that the little girl said to him (the analyst) that she did not want him to observe her when she changed into her shorts. He replied, "of course not. I want her to know I would never do anything to hurt her." I think the plan is to utilize fantasies like this to have "her" feel safe enough to eventually re-experience things more fully without becoming overwhelmed- or emotionally blank.
I think that I like this approach, as it may offer a way to get to the traumas in such a way that they aren't sealed off emotionally any more. Once I can get more in touch with them, I hope I'll be able to start really healing from them. Instead of talking about my actual parents, almost every session involves talking about what I am feeling, moment to moment, about my therapist- ALL the feelings are focussed on him. I notice that he helps me identify the feelings, but never says, "this is like what you felt towards your father". He just accepts them. I think he is functioning as a stand-in for the parents, but one who can offer a much more positive , safe relationship.
Does this seem anything like what the rest of you are experiencing in therapy?
Pfinstegg
Posted by DaisyM on January 7, 2004, at 20:38:47
In reply to talking about traumas in therapy.. » Karen_kay, posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 20:21:59
This is an interesting approach and I can see how it would promote safety. We've done a little of that -- more like, what were you hoping for kinds of questions. But then again, I tend to blurt and then with-draw...and then blurt more later.
I think my Therapist is really working on getting me to see how "wounded" I am (his word). I tend to minimize things, from then, and now. I want to "understand it." Intellectualize it all away. He does actually draw references from something I'll tell him back to the past..."like your mom did" or whatever. It helps to connect the dots in a way.
He does focus on our relationship alot. When I talk about how someone made me feel, he'll bring it back to himself. But when I am "in it", talking about the trauma, he usually just lets me talk, or not, and then will reframe things for me. Which has help enormously, especially with the guilt.
It is really hard, so I'm glad you like who you are working with and how it is going. I don't think you can do this without someone who individualizes it for you. How often do you go?
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 20:57:42
In reply to Re: talking about traumas in therapy.. » Pfinstegg, posted by DaisyM on January 7, 2004, at 20:38:47
It sounds as if what your therapist is doing is quite similiar. Yours refers to "hopes" and mine says "wishes and desires". From what you have said, it sounds as though you are more in touch with the emotional aspects of the trauma than I am at this point- that's wonderful!
I go twice a week, but, beecause he is a psychoanalyst, I usually lie down on the couch. This partly explains the very regressive nature of some of our interactions!
Pfinstegg
Posted by DaisyM on January 7, 2004, at 21:50:12
In reply to Re: talking about traumas in therapy.. » DaisyM, posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 20:57:42
I can't imagine lying down, no matter how safe I might feel, this would trigger too many things.
I describe it as watching a movie and narrating. The mortification, fear, pain, etc. are partially me as the adult watching it unfold. I'm not sure I remember how I felt at the time, except I was afraid and very aware of the consequences of someone finding out. This all happened more than 30 years ago...I have no idea why it is forcing itself out now, I just know it is. My Therapist thinks it is all the stress I currently deal with plus my own child had a difficult time last year (not abuse, anxiety) and his therapy triggered a great deal of this for me. It isn't that I didn't "know" it happened...I've just always been able to supress thinking about it. I thought I could just ignore it. Hmmm...
The first time I told my Therapist, I went home and threw up. Now I just implode and turn into a little kid again. He is really good about offering a ton of phone support and/or extra sessions, even if I don't "want" them...I'm usually glad I've had them. He is also good at leaving it alone when we have other stuff to deal with. But it certainly complicates the present by contaminating it.
*sigh* *really big sigh*
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 22:28:42
In reply to Re: talking about traumas in therapy.. » Pfinstegg, posted by DaisyM on January 7, 2004, at 21:50:12
What you are doing in your therapy sounds very promising and encouraging, even though it probably doesn't feel that way. I think the truth is these traumas affect us severely, our entire lives, even though we look like we are doing well, and feel that it's much safer, or even just preferable for our lives, not to think about them. I feel certain that once I have worked my feelings through, as much as I am able, I will feel much happier and more whole than I do now. It's just so slow and hard!
It sounds as though you've got a wonderful therapist who's committed to you and your treatment, and who is available for extra support when needed- that's so great to have- and, as we can see here, not everyone is that lucky. I feel I have an excellent one, also- very warm, caring and supportive, but also someone who expects me to work hard and do my very best. By the way, the couch was so scary at first that I wouldn't go near it, but as my trust in him grew, I began to use it and realize that it can give you greater freedom to speak, feel and think. I often sit up, too- just whatever I prefer.
Pfinstegg
Posted by naiad on January 8, 2004, at 8:15:14
In reply to talking about traumas in therapy.. » Karen_kay, posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 20:21:59
"think that I like this approach, as it may offer a way to get to the traumas in such a way that they aren't sealed off emotionally any more. Once I can get more in touch with them, I hope I'll be able to start really healing from them. Instead of talking about my actual parents, almost every session involves talking about what I am feeling, moment to moment, about my therapist- ALL the feelings are focussed on him. I notice that he helps me identify the feelings, but never says, "this is like what you felt towards your father". He just accepts them. I think he is functioning as a stand-in for the parents, but one who can offer a much more positive , safe relationship."
Phinstegg,
You phrased the interaction between you and you therpaist really well. YES, it is almost exactly what I am experiencing. I went through a period of being angry at my therapist when I thought he was being cold and critical (like my mother). He has been angry with me, too, for manipulating. So instead of talking about my parents all the time, we are acting out some of the conflicts. At least I think that's whats happening. At times it is clear and others it is quite fuzzy.
I shared a dream about rape with him recently. His ears really perked up. He didn't press for too many details (except, could I visulaize the rapist?) but for the first time ever he took notes.
Thanks for your thoughtful and thought provoking post.
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