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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bob on May 28, 2003, at 3:27:19
I was wondering whether there are any persons on this board who, as a result of mental illness (or actually any serious chronic illness for that matter), have developed a persistent and intense bitterness about what has happened to them and how unjust it seems. I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety for over a decade now and in the past few years it as become a very bitter issue for me, as I perceive that I will now never be like my peers, who have far outstripped me in every capacity imaginable. I constantly compare myself to my friends and acquaintances and invariably am very unhappy with the results I get. Whenever I visit friends or talk with them, it is almost a constant spotlight on my frailties and shortcomings (e.g.: I no longer work and am on LTD, I am almost nonfunctional and do very little with my days, I have almost no emotional stability, I have many physical problems now that no doctor seems to be able to diagnose). On the other hand, most of the people I grew up with have gone on to fantastic jobs in great cities (NY, SF) making mad money. They are all paired off now and most have kids. The on example that doesn't is waiting. I'm not exaggerating here. The world has passed me by and I can't seem to put it out of my mind.
As a result of the above, I often find myself engaging in schadenfreudistic (is that a viable form of the word?) thoughts. I'm aware that most people have these type musings from time to time, but I have practically made it my hobby. I don't want to be consumed by this hatred and bitterness, but it is happening anyway.
Does anyone here have suggestions for how to escape from this downward spiral? Please no religious advice, as I already have a problem with the whole God thing because of this.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by WorryGirl on May 28, 2003, at 8:41:28
In reply to Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by Bob on May 28, 2003, at 3:27:19
>I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety for over a decade now and in the past few years it as become a very bitter issue for me, as I perceive that I will now never be like my peers, who have far outstripped me in every capacity imaginable. I constantly compare myself to my friends and acquaintances and invariably am very unhappy with the results I get. Whenever I visit friends or talk with them, it is almost a constant spotlight on my frailties and shortcomings (e.g.: I no longer work and am on LTD, I am almost nonfunctional and do very little with my days, I have almost no emotional stability, I have many physical problems now that no doctor seems to be able to diagnose). On the other hand, most of the people I grew up with have gone on to fantastic jobs in great cities (NY, SF) making mad money. They are all paired off now and most have kids. The on example that doesn't is waiting. I'm not exaggerating here. The world has passed me by and I can't seem to put it out of my mind.
>Bob,
It can be hard not to compare your life with other people's lives, especially when theirs seems so together.Almost everyone I know, or observe, rich or poor, attractive or not, happily married or not, I somehow see as having it together more than me. I'm always subconsciously looking for what makes them better than me in some way - they are more educated, more popular, prettier, etc., you get the drift. But this attitude has begun to take its toll on me and I'm determined to stop this attitude before my self-esteem is a huge sinkhole.
Lately I am starting to try not comparing myself with anyone else, because invariably it will defeat me. Instead of comparing myself and looking for what doesn't seem as "good" as someone else's I try to see everyone as merely human, with their weaknesses, too.
I will appreciate their successes, but know that they have their problems, too. We all do, of course, but it can seem sometimes like someone else's life is so much more successful.
Try to realize that there are many people out there with the perfect job, house, or family life from all outward appearances, but they could be dealing with some serious issues, and might be putting on a facade. I think everyone puts on a facade to an extent. There are days where I feel that this world is so fake - everyone wants everyone else to see what they want them to see.Start focusing on YOUR life and no one else's. Look for the smallest successes as well as the bigger. Don't be afraid to give yourself a pat on the back every now and then. It's the small successes that will hopefully build into the feeling of a bigger success.
I sympathize because I so often feel as you do, and it is only lately that I've really been trying to make a change.
Children are wonderful (I have two) but there is a freedom you will never have with children that you can take advantage of. Children come with a different set of stresses, such as judgment by others on how you raise them, etc.
Don't worry about stuff like that. Save your money and take a trip, alone or with friends. Do whatever it is that you enjoy, even if it's just sleeping in, sitting on the hotel balcony overlooking a beach view, or reading.You don't deserve to feel so inadequate compared to everyone else - you're not.
I sincerely wish the best for you.
Posted by Bob on May 28, 2003, at 13:19:54
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment » Bob, posted by WorryGirl on May 28, 2003, at 8:41:28
> >I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety for over a decade now and in the past few years it as become a very bitter issue for me, as I perceive that I will now never be like my peers, who have far outstripped me in every capacity imaginable. I constantly compare myself to my friends and acquaintances and invariably am very unhappy with the results I get. Whenever I visit friends or talk with them, it is almost a constant spotlight on my frailties and shortcomings (e.g.: I no longer work and am on LTD, I am almost nonfunctional and do very little with my days, I have almost no emotional stability, I have many physical problems now that no doctor seems to be able to diagnose). On the other hand, most of the people I grew up with have gone on to fantastic jobs in great cities (NY, SF) making mad money. They are all paired off now and most have kids. The on example that doesn't is waiting. I'm not exaggerating here. The world has passed me by and I can't seem to put it out of my mind.
> >
>
> Bob,
> It can be hard not to compare your life with other people's lives, especially when theirs seems so together.
>
> Almost everyone I know, or observe, rich or poor, attractive or not, happily married or not, I somehow see as having it together more than me. I'm always subconsciously looking for what makes them better than me in some way - they are more educated, more popular, prettier, etc., you get the drift. But this attitude has begun to take its toll on me and I'm determined to stop this attitude before my self-esteem is a huge sinkhole.
>
> Lately I am starting to try not comparing myself with anyone else, because invariably it will defeat me. Instead of comparing myself and looking for what doesn't seem as "good" as someone else's I try to see everyone as merely human, with their weaknesses, too.
> I will appreciate their successes, but know that they have their problems, too. We all do, of course, but it can seem sometimes like someone else's life is so much more successful.
> Try to realize that there are many people out there with the perfect job, house, or family life from all outward appearances, but they could be dealing with some serious issues, and might be putting on a facade. I think everyone puts on a facade to an extent. There are days where I feel that this world is so fake - everyone wants everyone else to see what they want them to see.
>
> Start focusing on YOUR life and no one else's. Look for the smallest successes as well as the bigger. Don't be afraid to give yourself a pat on the back every now and then. It's the small successes that will hopefully build into the feeling of a bigger success.
>
> I sympathize because I so often feel as you do, and it is only lately that I've really been trying to make a change.
>
> Children are wonderful (I have two) but there is a freedom you will never have with children that you can take advantage of. Children come with a different set of stresses, such as judgment by others on how you raise them, etc.
> Don't worry about stuff like that. Save your money and take a trip, alone or with friends. Do whatever it is that you enjoy, even if it's just sleeping in, sitting on the hotel balcony overlooking a beach view, or reading.
>
> You don't deserve to feel so inadequate compared to everyone else - you're not.
> I sincerely wish the best for you.
>
Thanks for that insight.One big problem I have though, is that even if we are just looking at facades and ignoring what people are hiding, I come up real short. There mere ability to put up a facade is something I no longer have. I always here it stated that "everybody" has problems and "nobody's life is perfect". I agree with those statements, but it's not like my friend with the million dollar house on 3 acres of wooded land and 2 beautiful kids and a beautiful wife is suffering like I am. I don't care what he's hiding (and he can't be hiding much or I would know about it) it wouldn't come near what I go through. This essentially goes for almost everyone I know. The problem I have with those canned statements are that it is a given that nobody's life is perfect and that everyone has problems. That, however, is irrelevant to the enormous disparity of suffering between me and them. Their imperfect life does not equal my impefect life, so no consolation is felt there.
You mentioned some insightful things, and I will try to take them to heart. I guess part of my problem with comparison is my disease, but that's not all of it. The saying "keeping up with the Jones" isn't still around for no reason.
Posted by Tabitha on May 29, 2003, at 12:46:26
In reply to Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by Bob on May 28, 2003, at 3:27:19
maybe your grief process is stuck on anger right now. under the anger is there some sadness over all you've lost -- both past and future potential? sometimes I find I can let go of anger a bit by focusing on what's underneath. If you can let the grief process continue, you might eventually find more acceptance and peace with things.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on May 29, 2003, at 15:10:57
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by Tabitha on May 29, 2003, at 12:46:26
Bob,
I can understand how you feel; I often feel similarly. I look at my peers and they are better educated, married or in committed relationships, own their own houses, etc. Not all of them have the complete package, but most have the majority of it. I am so disappointed that I don't have this, and don't have the capacity right now to get there.
I have two kids. I would very much like to be able to do things with them. I can't drive, I don't have the money to send them to camps in the summer. I'm terrified of how I will ever afford college.
I do manage to get a little satisfaction, when I'm not in a real self-critical mood, of what I was doing for work. I have also found that crafts may lead to some possible income.
Other than that, as my therapist reminds me, I have to congratulate myself for the successes that I experience day-to-day. I guess our friends have success in their careers and such, but they don't have to do so with what we are experiencing. If they had to constantly worry about staying alive, being able to eat, self injury, medications that make you shake more than a freight train over old tracks, and everything else that goes with it, they wouldn't come near to what they are doing.
As for you, I can tell that you have a fairly good education. You have a good vocabulary, you express your points well, you know how to use a computer. You have tallents. You have a lot going for you, even if it's hidden behind the illness right now. Keep taking it out, keep using the parts that you can. It's in there, and when you can, make it grow. If some doesn't grow, you can let it rest without having to beat yourself up over it.
I hope I don't sound too preachy,
Dee.
Posted by noa on May 29, 2003, at 16:59:21
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by Tabitha on May 29, 2003, at 12:46:26
It is a grief process.
I have gone through it too. It is hard.
But one thing to remember--the habit of comparing and measuring oneself to others nearly always leaves us feeling inadequate, and only becomes another way to beat ourselves up.
Maybe, when you find yourself going there, or hanging there too long, try to divert the attention a bit to some self-empathy, as if talking to another griever: talk to yourself in sympathy about how hard it is to accept loss. Just to provide comforting. But try to veer away from the bitter comparisons of self to others.
I allowed myself to be angry at the disease. But the real bite of the bitterness didn't start to abate until I started realizing that I was still blaming myself for the disease, and needed to begin to let go of that.
It is unfair. It stinks. Depression creates lots of loss. I found it helpful to grieve the loss, but then to try to find a way to move on. Moving on did not mean forgetting my grief, it just meant learning not to be so consumed by it. But it is a process.
It is possible to find a way to make some peace with this. But it does take time, and it is an ongoing process even when it gets more peaceful, it is something that I revisit every so often, although in a more contained way than I used to.
I know it sounds rather trite, but I really do think that finding a place to volunteer for people who need and will appreciate your help and presence, can really help. First, it can help maintain the perspective that yeah, I got it a lot worse than many, but better than many, too. And it feels so good to feel wanted and appreciated.
Hope this makes sense.
Posted by Bob on May 30, 2003, at 2:33:08
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by Tabitha on May 29, 2003, at 12:46:26
> maybe your grief process is stuck on anger right now. under the anger is there some sadness over all you've lost -- both past and future potential? sometimes I find I can let go of anger a bit by focusing on what's underneath. If you can let the grief process continue, you might eventually find more acceptance and peace with things.
I'm not sure I get what you mean here. When I "focus on what's underneath", it makes me angrier than ever. The only small bit of relief I seem to get is by getting away from those that remind me of how much I've lost, and then I start to forget about it a little.
Posted by Bob on May 30, 2003, at 2:36:48
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by deirdrehbrt on May 29, 2003, at 15:10:57
> Bob,
> I can understand how you feel; I often feel similarly. I look at my peers and they are better educated, married or in committed relationships, own their own houses, etc. Not all of them have the complete package, but most have the majority of it. I am so disappointed that I don't have this, and don't have the capacity right now to get there.
> I have two kids. I would very much like to be able to do things with them. I can't drive, I don't have the money to send them to camps in the summer. I'm terrified of how I will ever afford college.
> I do manage to get a little satisfaction, when I'm not in a real self-critical mood, of what I was doing for work. I have also found that crafts may lead to some possible income.
> Other than that, as my therapist reminds me, I have to congratulate myself for the successes that I experience day-to-day. I guess our friends have success in their careers and such, but they don't have to do so with what we are experiencing. If they had to constantly worry about staying alive, being able to eat, self injury, medications that make you shake more than a freight train over old tracks, and everything else that goes with it, they wouldn't come near to what they are doing.
> As for you, I can tell that you have a fairly good education. You have a good vocabulary, you express your points well, you know how to use a computer. You have tallents. You have a lot going for you, even if it's hidden behind the illness right now. Keep taking it out, keep using the parts that you can. It's in there, and when you can, make it grow. If some doesn't grow, you can let it rest without having to beat yourself up over it.
> I hope I don't sound too preachy,
> Dee.Dee:
I didn't take any of your advice as preaching. The beginning of your post hit home with me very well. It seems you know exactly how I feel. With this, and other major diseases, we have the unique opportunity to watch the world pull away from us. I feel for you, as I do for all of us in this situation. I will try to take some of the things you said to heart. Thanks for a well written post.
Bob
Posted by Bob on May 30, 2003, at 2:44:30
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by noa on May 29, 2003, at 16:59:21
> It is a grief process.
>
> I have gone through it too. It is hard.
>
> But one thing to remember--the habit of comparing and measuring oneself to others nearly always leaves us feeling inadequate, and only becomes another way to beat ourselves up.
>
> Maybe, when you find yourself going there, or hanging there too long, try to divert the attention a bit to some self-empathy, as if talking to another griever: talk to yourself in sympathy about how hard it is to accept loss. Just to provide comforting. But try to veer away from the bitter comparisons of self to others.
>
> I allowed myself to be angry at the disease. But the real bite of the bitterness didn't start to abate until I started realizing that I was still blaming myself for the disease, and needed to begin to let go of that.
>
> It is unfair. It stinks. Depression creates lots of loss. I found it helpful to grieve the loss, but then to try to find a way to move on. Moving on did not mean forgetting my grief, it just meant learning not to be so consumed by it. But it is a process.
>
> It is possible to find a way to make some peace with this. But it does take time, and it is an ongoing process even when it gets more peaceful, it is something that I revisit every so often, although in a more contained way than I used to.
>
> I know it sounds rather trite, but I really do think that finding a place to volunteer for people who need and will appreciate your help and presence, can really help. First, it can help maintain the perspective that yeah, I got it a lot worse than many, but better than many, too. And it feels so good to feel wanted and appreciated.
>
> Hope this makes sense.
>
>Actually, the suggestion of volunteering makes a lot of sense, as one of the big problems I have is my empty days. They end up being filled with thoughts of how ineffectual and worthless I am compared to those who do things in their lives (which is just about everyone I know). Maybe if I can struggle to get out and volunteer, I may alleviate some of this self-bashing. You have many good points in your post, and I thank you for your input.
Bob
Posted by Ilene on July 9, 2003, at 21:15:35
In reply to Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment, posted by Bob on May 28, 2003, at 3:27:19
> I was wondering whether there are any persons on this board who, as a result of mental illness (or actually any serious chronic illness for that matter), have developed a persistent and intense bitterness about what has happened to them and how unjust it seems. I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety for over a decade now
Only a decade?
and in the past few years it as become a very bitter issue for me, as I perceive that I will now never be like my peers, who have far outstripped me in every capacity imaginable.
Yes.
I constantly compare myself to my friends and acquaintances and invariably am very unhappy with the results I get. Whenever I visit friends or talk with them, it is almost a constant spotlight on my frailties and shortcomings (e.g.: I no longer work and am on LTD, I am almost nonfunctional and do very little with my days, I have almost no emotional stability, I have many physical problems now that no doctor seems to be able to diagnose). On the other hand, most of the people I grew up with have gone on to fantastic jobs in great cities (NY, SF) making mad money. They are all paired off now and most have kids. The on example that doesn't is waiting. I'm not exaggerating here. The world has passed me by and I can't seem to put it out of my mind.
>I used to be better at tolerating other people's accomplishments, but I've almost lost that capacity. My life is getting worse and worse, and I feel left behind. I realize there's no point in comparing myself to other people, but I do. The truth is that most people are reasonably happy--or if not that, then not despairing--and I am unhappy no matter what.
> As a result of the above, I often find myself engaging in schadenfreudistic (is that a viable form of the word?)
No, it's not. "Viable" means "alive".
thoughts. I'm aware that most people have these type musings from time to time, but I have practically made it my hobby. I don't want to be consumed by this hatred and bitterness, but it is happening anyway.
>
> Does anyone here have suggestions for how to escape from this downward spiral? Please no religious advice, as I already have a problem with the whole God thing because of this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobI try not to hate people who aren't constantly taking their own emotional pulse. But by now I feel a constant bitterness that not only am I barely functional, but actually getting worse. I have no idea whether that feeling would go away if I were somehow "cured". Whatever personal assets I've retained are no compensation for a geometrically accumulating pile of personal deficits.
Ilene
Posted by Bob on July 9, 2003, at 21:43:11
In reply to Re: Refractory Bitterness, Anger, and Resentment » Bob, posted by Ilene on July 9, 2003, at 21:15:35
>
> I try not to hate people who aren't constantly taking their own emotional pulse. But by now I feel a constant bitterness that not only am I barely functional, but actually getting worse. I have no idea whether that feeling would go away if I were somehow "cured". Whatever personal assets I've retained are no compensation for a geometrically accumulating pile of personal deficits.
>
> Ilene
Well put, Ilene.
This is the end of the thread.
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