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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 88 to 112 of 118. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on December 5, 2009, at 19:15:11
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by morganator on December 5, 2009, at 17:41:27
> You did start this thread with the study about the combination of medication and exercise didn't you?
What does that tell you?
I may be bipolar, but my thinking is not.
- Scott
Posted by emmanuel98 on December 5, 2009, at 19:24:40
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by SLS on December 5, 2009, at 19:15:11
I'll just add to this thread that when I was really depressed, exercise, if I could get myself to do it, made me feel better for an hour or two. But then I'd go back to feeling horrible. Sometimes, I'd break out in tears at the gym. When I have been not depressed, but sometimes have anxiety, exercise is great, pulls me out of the anxiety and keeps me out for a while. I think severe depression -- really severe, where you're nearly catatonic -- doesn't respond to exercise but milder depression and anxiety does.
Anyway, that's my experience. And maybe severe anxiety doesn't either. I don't know because I've never suffered from severe anxiety.
Posted by SLS on December 5, 2009, at 19:37:50
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by emmanuel98 on December 5, 2009, at 19:24:40
> I'll just add to this thread that when I was really depressed, exercise, if I could get myself to do it, made me feel better for an hour or two.
I think there is a certain amount of invigoration or energization that I feel immediately after exercise. I doubt that this is much different from that which otherwise healthy people experience. However, it really doesn't affect my depression at all.
In the meantime, I will continue to exercise while I can. There are, of course, other benefits that can be had from doing it.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2009, at 19:58:53
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by SLS on December 5, 2009, at 19:37:50
As rotten as I felt today and as damp and really cold down to 27 tonight I layered up and put my spot light around my neck and the reflective vest and rod my six miles on the bike. If I don't I won't again. IF you don't use it you lose it. Only thing with me is all these years of excercise and bad osteoporosis and the back pain afterwards is maybe why I don't seem to need the benzos anymore? Too emotionally draining as no one absolutely no one is going to tell me I can't ride my bike. A bit of a personal rant. I lost my sense of taste and smell a geat pleasure gone, Husband says if he knew I'd get sick would have never married me, kids ignore me, got the lymes and still positive but not active, docs won't do labs on me only got medicaire, I'm 63 let's eliminate some of the aging population is the way I personally see it. So I'm on my own but I refuse to accept that there is not a med for the osteo. If I have to import one from another country I will. I refuse to quit, get fat and die@!!!! Rant over. Love Phillipa
Posted by morganator on December 5, 2009, at 20:47:36
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science » SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2009, at 19:58:53
Wow Phillipa I really feel for ya. The family situation alone must be so difficult.
I think you might seriously consider 5-Loxin or Vitamin Shoppe Brand Boswellia for your arthritis.
Take care,
Morgan
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2009, at 21:13:54
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science » Phillipa, posted by morganator on December 5, 2009, at 20:47:36
Thanks Morgan but it's osteoporosis weakening of the bones that lead to breaks. Any research your're willing to do would much be appreciated. Seriously. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by morganator on December 6, 2009, at 1:03:36
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2009, at 21:13:54
Gotchya, yeah I was thinking osteoarthritis. That's my brain not processing things well anymore. A result of a year and a half of stress, anxiety, severe depression and no exercise. Ugh!!!
Well I hope this is helpful. I'm sure you have already done much research on this.
I think vitamin K2 is essential for healthy bones. So is vitamin D3. You can find them both at the Vitamin Shoppe locally or online, neither are expensive. Also, if you are taking calcium supplements you need to get extra magnesium. I know some companies like Bluebonnet make a calcium, magnesium, and vit D3 all in one supplement.
Many people nowadays are taking 1000mgs or more of D3 a day, especially in the winter time. I would consider doing this as there are many new found health benefits from taking vitamin D3.
Posted by SLS on December 6, 2009, at 5:15:24
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science » SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2009, at 19:58:53
For osteoporosis, resistance exercise is more effective to arrest and reverse the progress of bone loss than is bike riding.
- Scott
> As rotten as I felt today and as damp and really cold down to 27 tonight I layered up and put my spot light around my neck and the reflective vest and rod my six miles on the bike. If I don't I won't again. IF you don't use it you lose it. Only thing with me is all these years of excercise and bad osteoporosis and the back pain afterwards is maybe why I don't seem to need the benzos anymore? Too emotionally draining as no one absolutely no one is going to tell me I can't ride my bike. A bit of a personal rant. I lost my sense of taste and smell a geat pleasure gone, Husband says if he knew I'd get sick would have never married me, kids ignore me, got the lymes and still positive but not active, docs won't do labs on me only got medicaire, I'm 63 let's eliminate some of the aging population is the way I personally see it. So I'm on my own but I refuse to accept that there is not a med for the osteo. If I have to import one from another country I will. I refuse to quit, get fat and die@!!!! Rant over. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2009, at 19:13:52
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science » Phillipa, posted by SLS on December 6, 2009, at 5:15:24
Scott I know I was a runner or jogger til four years ago, also walked five miles a day when lived at the beach and lifted weights at health club, And did eliptical which I simply hated. And still tested even then with osteoporosis which I ignored but have always taken calcium magnesium. Now I have the supplement from vitamin Shoppe that Morgan listed. It contains d3 and K. And am still on a low dose of bioidentical hormones. This girl that worked for drug company lives near my neice recomments evista said that is the one she will take if needs one. Why has my lifelong excercise not worked? Taught the Aerobic Dance also trained instructors and ran with men at noon, and did my own choreography don't get it? Love Jan
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2009, at 19:18:05
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by morganator on December 6, 2009, at 1:03:36
Morgan thanks so much. I need a bone builder no ca in family? Sister bigger bones but thinner has osteopenia she's six years younger than me. Wonder if just continuing the bioidentical hormones creams based on my blood drawn of all three estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone would be best with the supplements? It really gets confusing. Love Jan to you too!!! ps went down on the hormones, sore boobs, bit of vaginal bleeding, and bruising???
Posted by morganator on December 6, 2009, at 19:50:22
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science » morganator, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2009, at 19:18:05
Guess it runs in the family. That's too bad. Hopefully you find a treatment/treatments that help.
Have you thought about using one of those exercise bands to do resistance training with? I think they would be fairly easy and you could do them at home.
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2009, at 20:11:51
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by morganator on December 6, 2009, at 19:50:22
Morgan that's what I figured hereditary my paternal Grandmother in mid 70's very socially active diabetic fell broke her hip in the hospital the nurse's forgot to change the dressing it got infected she died. This was about 40 years ago. Love Phillipa
Posted by Katgirl on December 7, 2009, at 9:06:57
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science » morganator, posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2009, at 20:11:51
Haven't they shown that SSRI's cause osteporosis? Or am I remembering that wrong?
Posted by Phillipa on December 7, 2009, at 19:23:17
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Katgirl on December 7, 2009, at 9:06:57
Katgirl I don't remember? If so that would explain my sister's osteopenia too? Thanks will google. Love Phillipa
Posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:33
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by emmanuel98 on December 5, 2009, at 19:24:40
Uh-oh, here we go again!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215131328.htm
Posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2009, at 22:00:09
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:33
I feel freedom when I excercise. Phillipa
Posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 22:11:30
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:33
> Uh-oh, here we go again!
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215131328.htmArticles like this make me wonder. I mean, if one strived to exercise and thus achieve "mastery of physical goals" but then fail because of their depression, wouldn't that just serve to make things worse?
Posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2009, at 22:16:51
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 22:11:30
I feel just do the best you can and don't set the standard too high and if you achieve this goal you might feel better???? Phillipa
Posted by Ron Hill on December 15, 2009, at 22:52:08
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:33
> Uh-oh, here we go again!
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215131328.htm
-------------------To PBer's Reading This Thread;
<Begin Excerpt from above Article>
This suggests, McAuley said, that physical activity influences depression and fatigue by increasing self-efficacy.
<End of Excerpt>
If, by his mere review of two studies (one on cancer and one on MS), McAuley believes he can determine that all of the benefits of exercise in the tx of depression is attributal to self-efficacy, then I have some Ocean-Front Property in Nevada that I'd love to sell him.
-- Ron
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2009, at 0:06:38
In reply to Re: Ocean-Front Property in Nevada, posted by Ron Hill on December 15, 2009, at 22:52:08
Hi Ron hope your're feeling well. Ocean front in Nevada hummmm Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 16, 2009, at 7:34:52
In reply to Re: Ocean-Front Property in Nevada, posted by Ron Hill on December 15, 2009, at 22:52:08
> > Uh-oh, here we go again!
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215131328.htm
> -------------------
>
> To PBer's Reading This Thread;
>
> <Begin Excerpt from above Article>
>
> This suggests, McAuley said, that physical activity influences depression and fatigue by increasing self-efficacy.
>
> <End of Excerpt>
>
> If, by his mere review of two studies (one on cancer and one on MS), McAuley believes he can determine that all of the benefits of exercise in the tx of depression is attributal to self-efficacy, then I have some Ocean-Front Property in Nevada that I'd love to sell him.
>
> -- Ron
Perhaps people with reactive mood would feel better if they felt more empowered by exercise. It is hard to believe that this explains all of the cases where exercise reduces depression scores, though. I am still looking for the disconnect that exists between people who report feeling better in response to exercise and those who don't.
- Scott
Posted by mtdewcmu on December 20, 2009, at 15:13:18
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by Bob on December 15, 2009, at 21:48:33
> Uh-oh, here we go again!
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215131328.htmThank you for posting this. It fits perfectly with my opinion on exercise and depression. I don't think the effect exercise has on depression is due to endorphins and other brain chemicals per se. I think it is due to psychological factors, like one's beliefs about him/herself. In this capacity it would be a lot like CBT, I think.
Posted by mtdewcmu on December 20, 2009, at 15:16:07
In reply to Re: Ocean-Front Property in Nevada, posted by Ron Hill on December 15, 2009, at 22:52:08
> > Uh-oh, here we go again!
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215131328.htm
> -------------------
>
> To PBer's Reading This Thread;
>
> <Begin Excerpt from above Article>
>
> This suggests, McAuley said, that physical activity influences depression and fatigue by increasing self-efficacy.
>
> <End of Excerpt>
>
> If, by his mere review of two studies (one on cancer and one on MS), McAuley believes he can determine that all of the benefits of exercise in the tx of depression is attributal to self-efficacy, then I have some Ocean-Front Property in Nevada that I'd love to sell him.
>
> -- RonYou might have missed this part of the article:
"when the researchers controlled for the influence of self-efficacy on depression and fatigue, they found that the effect of physical activity on both depression and fatigue was significantly reduced."
In other words, when they took out self-efficacy, a small effect still remained. It was not zero.
Posted by mtdewcmu on December 20, 2009, at 15:22:45
In reply to Re: Ocean-Front Property in Nevada, posted by SLS on December 16, 2009, at 7:34:52
> Perhaps people with reactive mood would feel better if they felt more empowered by exercise. It is hard to believe that this explains all of the cases where exercise reduces depression scores, though. I am still looking for the disconnect that exists between people who report feeling better in response to exercise and those who don't.
>Part of depression results from (/is perpetuated by) negative self-talk. I think that is the premise of CBT. Perhaps exercise would work best as an adjunct to CBT. However, I think some people's depression is so entrenched that it is beyond the point of being helped by improved self-talk.
I'm sure that if we had the means to do our own study, Scott, we could find that disconnect.
Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2009, at 19:01:36
In reply to Re: Umm. Let's Not Ignore the Science, posted by mtdewcmu on December 20, 2009, at 15:13:18
Seriously I do. I remember when teaching Aerobic Dance and running that before a class or before running I'd just feel ick. Part way through either it would lift I'd feel great and this stayed with me all day. I was always so glad I'd done it. I'd accomplish so much as happily. It was the runner's high that which occurrs after minumum of half and hour of running or jogging. Phillipa
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