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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 9:29:57
Hello everybody,
I have a question to place about Hypericum and sleep. I've been using it for about a month and it seems to be giving good results, specially regarding memory and cognition. However, from week 2 I noticed that my sleep seems to be not deep. I don't wake up during the night, but I do feel that sleep was not restorative when I wake up.
It looks like the medication is effective, but its effect on sleep quality seems to be ruining my mood.
Can you share any experience? Would you recommend some sleep aid or is this supposed to fade with time or lower dose?
Thank you
Ralph
Posted by TenMan on November 6, 2009, at 9:55:38
In reply to Hypericum and sleep, posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 9:29:57
What time of the day are you taking it? I have found it to be activating and to interfere with my sleep if taken too late in the evening. Funnily enough however, others report it to be sedating and they take it at night. I used to split my doses up throughout the day to diminish the side effects but I found that after 8 weeks what sides I was getting went away and I just switched to taking it all in the morning with breakfast.
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 10:11:04
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep, posted by TenMan on November 6, 2009, at 9:55:38
I'm taking 300mg in the morning and another at lunch. It feels activating. Funny thing is that in the first week it made me sleep so well, like I would wake up with a smile on my face. Then... it just ruined everything.
I considered reducing the dose (1x in the morning) and augumenting it with fish oil.
Is SJW the only thing you take?
Thanks and good luck
Posted by Phillipa on November 6, 2009, at 10:22:00
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep » TenMan, posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 10:11:04
I must admit I always thought SJW was nothing just a kind of vitamin but it seems it's used a lot in Europe for depression but isn't it for mild to moderate? And what's the difference between the two what would be the symptoms? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by TenMan on November 6, 2009, at 10:40:40
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep » TenMan, posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 10:11:04
> I'm taking 300mg in the morning and another at lunch. It feels activating. Funny thing is that in the first week it made me sleep so well, like I would wake up with a smile on my face. Then... it just ruined everything.
>
> I considered reducing the dose (1x in the morning) and augumenting it with fish oil.
>
> Is SJW the only thing you take?
>
> Thanks and good luckThe way I see it there are several possibilities you could try:
1.Stick it out for another couple weeks and see if it improves. This is what I would personally do. As I already stated, the sides for me went away around the 8 week mark. Up to that point I was experiencing somnolence, feeling slightly buzzed and bouts of restless sleep. Then one day I realized that they were gone and all I felt was...just good.
2. You could try taking both doses in the morning.
3. This may seem counterintuitive but you could try adding in a third dose in the evening. Perhaps the fluctuating blood levels is causing the problem and adding in the third dose would achieve a consistent level which would alleviate the problem? I don't know, I'm just speculating.
4. You could add in something for sleep. You can try a pharm like lunesta or ambien but if you want to go natural I have heard good things about glycine, l-tryptophan, taurine and magnesium. Someone I know who takes St. Johns Wort and also experiences insomnia takes 3 grams of glycine before bed and finds it to work very well. I have taken both magnesium and tryptophan before for insomnia and found them both to be relaxing/sedating.
As for what I take personally:
1. Serofin St. John's Wort by New Chapter.
2. Vit D 6k iu a day
3 Vit K (as MK-7) 45mcg. a day.
4. 1 Tablespoon of Carlsons liquid fish oil daily.I have experimented with a wide range of both pharm and natural and have settled on this combination both for effectiveness and health. I also exercise daily with alternating aerobic and anaerobic exercise. That is very important for mood and health. I realize though it is tough to get motivated to do it when you feel bad.
Hope this helps! Take care.
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 15:38:52
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep, posted by TenMan on November 6, 2009, at 10:40:40
Hello TenMan
Thanks for you nice suggestions. It encourages me to hang on for some more weeks, as I'm already experiencing good results.
Depression is still an issue, and it's funny because it came back together with memory and cognitive improvements (by now). I was very apathetic first, though depression-free.
Let's work that out.
Thanks!
Ralph
Posted by bleauberry on November 6, 2009, at 17:08:07
In reply to Hypericum and sleep, posted by ralphrost2 on November 6, 2009, at 9:29:57
Experienced herbalists have discovered that one herb in particular goes very well with SJW. That is Lemon Balm. Somehow the two have a special synergy.
Lemon Balm is used as a calmative agent, anti-histeria, anti-anxiety, and is a mild sedative. You could try it for a week or so taking it in the evening a couple hours before bed or at bedtime, experiment with the times.
The one more commonly used for deeper sleep is Valerian Root extract. While it can work immediately, clinical studies show it needs several weeks. For me it usually works as-needed whenever. Absolutely horrible aweful horse-piss smell to it, so swallow the capsule fast. :-)
It might be worth trying melatonin, starting with very tiny doses at first and see how it feels for sleep and how it feels during the next day.
Here is a really good sleep herb...
HerbSom, available from a company online called HepaPro that distributes the products of the Chinese/American Lyme/Hepatitis MD Dr Zhang in New York City. He has all the expertise of Chinese herbs combined with the expertise of American medicines and science. His HerbSom has been shown in clinical trials to induce sleep equal to potent pharmaceuticals, except with no hangover, no addiction, no toxicity, and suitable for longterm use. You could customize your dose...1/2 capsule, whole capsule, whatever. This is not your usual internet scam doctor trying to make a buck. This is the real stuff from a true expert.
Posted by linkadge on November 6, 2009, at 18:14:49
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep, posted by bleauberry on November 6, 2009, at 17:08:07
Yeah, I found SJW a little sedating and a little activating. I too experienced some insomnia while taking it.
I agree that something like lemon balm, chamomile or passionflower might be useful.
You may also wish to reduce it to 600mg or less. I think this dose will still be effective taken longer term.
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on November 6, 2009, at 19:00:51
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep, posted by bleauberry on November 6, 2009, at 17:08:07
I just wanted to say I totally agree with everything Linkadge said.
And also wanted to reiterate HerbSom as a viable, though almost unheard of outside of China, option.
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 7, 2009, at 13:20:50
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep, posted by bleauberry on November 6, 2009, at 19:00:51
Gentlemen,
Thanks very much for your suggestions. I'll certainly try one of these aids if sleep continues to be a problem.
I'm very surprised with how strongly Hypericum improved my cognition and memory. And it makes me feel normal, not drugged. So sticking to it (and working around prohibitive side effects like bad sleep) sounds very promising.
What I strongly believe that helped building a better (steadier) mental health is my physical exercise routine (specially running and weight lifting). It was a very long (months) training process. But undeniably effective. People say however that it usually helps with sleep. That is not my case, not so far.
Wish you all good luck!
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 7, 2009, at 13:22:21
In reply to Re: Hypericum and sleep, posted by bleauberry on November 6, 2009, at 19:00:51
Gentlemen,
Thanks very much for your suggestions. I'll certainly try one of these aids if sleep continues to be a problem.
I'm very surprised with how strongly Hypericum improved my cognition and memory. And it makes me feel normal, not drugged. So sticking to it (and working around prohibitive side effects like bad sleep) sounds very promising.
What I strongly believe that helped building a better (steadier) mental health is my physical exercise routine (specially running and weight lifting). It was a very long (months) training process. But undeniably effective. People say however that it usually helps with sleep. That is not my case, not so far.
Wish you all good luck!
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