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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
Well, I thought I was somewhat stable, but I guess I thought wrong. For the past few days, my sleep has been really spotty (if I don't fall asleep within 20 minutes, I'm up the whole night). Anyways, the pain in my head and down my spinal chord is incredible, and Tylenol barely the edge off. I just went for a 4k run, and that helped somewhat, but the headache remains. After 9 years of this #@*! I'm almost ready to call it quits, and I find myself thinking more and more about "how" rather that "if." I am currenty taking 30 mg Remeron and 1 1/2 mg clonazepam plus tons of Tylenol to help dull the pain. No doctors take my suffering seriously, because after all, I have complained for 9 years and still haven't acted on my suicidal impulses. I personally feel my nervous system has been seriously and permanently damaged by all the meds I have tried over the years...this type of chronic pain with no identifiable pathology just can't be natural. If this is all I have to look forward to for the rest of my life, then there really is no point. My challenge now is to work up my courage and get the job done. I once thought the Canadian medical system had a safety net for people like me, but now I know I'm pretty much on my own.
Posted by wildcard on August 25, 2005, at 16:28:40
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
> You have obviously been through a lot but my friend, suicide is not the answer. I have been down that road and i am very lucky to be here right now...maybe to speak w/ u?? i dont know but there is help. do u have a dr. u can call? or family? a friend? or do u just need someone to listen?? what can i do?
Posted by linkadge on August 25, 2005, at 16:37:36
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
I would first swich your AD to a TCA like nortryptaline or imipramine which which are very effective for certain pain syndromes. I would up that to a dose which helps the depresson and pain better, and then ask for stronger pain meds for breakthough pain.
Linkadge
Posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 17:13:18
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
I'm sorry to use the word "suicide" in my message. Some may suspect that I use it to gain attention. I can assure you, however, that I really am chronically suicidal. My wife, who loves me dearly, has watched me suffer terribly for the past nine years and says she can't understand how I have lasted so long. She is very practical and says she would have checked out long ago. With regard to TCA's, I have already tried nortiptyline (for a few days) and doxepin (for many months). Both made me feel worse. I have also tried MAOI's, neurontin, SSRI's, SNRI's, AP's, Buspar and God knows what else. I guess I can always go back to Zyprexa and feel fat, lethargic, impotent and just plain dull. The combination I am on right now seems to work quite well, except for the pain management. I went to a pain specialist a few months ago and he told me to start running, which I did. He would not prescribe more meds. The running has helped some, but pain still dominates my life...I keep wanting to lie down, close my eyes, and pull the covers over my head. I guess it's the next best thing to being dead. Now that I think about it, perhaps I should try to see the pain doctor at the hospital for a follow-up. The main problem, as I mentioned before, is that hospital personnel seem to pay very little heed to people who do not actually attempt suicide...suffering alone doesn't count. It's such a catch 22. You don't get admitted unless you arrive DOA or with rope burns around your neck.
Posted by Declan on August 25, 2005, at 18:00:29
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
I thought the same thing about the safety net too, going here as well, part of this new world of choice and all the other stuff.
Did you post before? I don't know what your spinal chord has to do with it. Hopefully not too much. You don't just mean up and down your back, hey?
One nice doctor said to me 'NOTHING works for nerve root pain' and kindly wrote a script for methadone10mg X 20. You need something like that. Maybe not methadone, but a narcotic. Certainly Tylenol won't cut it. Absolutely useless for nerve pain and poisonous too. Ditto all the NSAIDs.
What do you think?
Declan
Posted by willyee on August 25, 2005, at 18:23:00
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
You shouldent have to suffer from psyhical so intensly when your already suffering from depression.
Cna your primary doc,or some kinda of doc,assist in prescrbibing you an opiod pain killer,in fact as a plus side not some of them have been used in severe treatment resistitant depression.
But i would totaly not mention depression at all in tha doc visit,stress how real and painiful ur spine is,the severity and time,i would be surprised to see a docter let you leave with giving you vicoden or something.
Good luck my friend.
Posted by wildcard on August 25, 2005, at 19:08:08
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by willyee on August 25, 2005, at 18:23:00
good point! whenever i had migraines or any type of pain, at the first mention of depression, the docs looked at me differently...
Posted by linkadge on August 25, 2005, at 20:29:50
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain » willyee, posted by wildcard on August 25, 2005, at 19:08:08
I know what you are saying. Saying you're suicidal doesn't raise eyebrows anymore.
I would augmet the remeron with an SSRI. Remeron alone didn't cut it as an antidepressant for me, I needed to take it with some celexa before it had an effect.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2005, at 20:55:42
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by linkadge on August 25, 2005, at 20:29:50
How old are you and do you think this pain could be a form of arthritis? I just don't think running can help back pain. Walking at a fast pace. Less stress on the joints. Fondly,Phillipa
Posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 21:21:35
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
Thanks for your support and feedback. My main problem is anxiety, anxiety, anxiety, and severe headaches. The spinal pain is basically an extension of my headache. When my anxiety abates, so do all of my pain symptoms. When I'm feeling really sick (which is often), I start thinking suicidal thoughts and then my anxiety really runs wild. I guess deep down I don't really want to die, just escape the pain. I have a wife and two teenage daughters to live for.
Posted by 4WD on August 25, 2005, at 22:24:02
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 21:21:35
> Thanks for your support and feedback. My main problem is anxiety, anxiety, anxiety, and severe headaches. The spinal pain is basically an extension of my headache. When my anxiety abates, so do all of my pain symptoms. When I'm feeling really sick (which is often), I start thinking suicidal thoughts and then my anxiety really runs wild. I guess deep down I don't really want to die, just escape the pain. I have a wife and two teenage daughters to live for.
Hi Guy,Do you have any idea what is causing the pain? I had severe upper back and neck pain for years and tightness/tension in the muscles in my shoulders and neck. No one could tell me what caused it (I did have some bulging disks in my neck). When it was bad it would cause headaches as well. When I switched from Prozac to Effexor it went about 85% away. The Prozac had been causing me to clench those muscles or something - or set off an inflammatory response. I still don't know exactly why all SSRIs except Paxil cause me neck and back pain. Is it possible yours started after having been placed on ADs? Or did you have it before?
Both Effexor and Cymbalta are supposed to be good for chronic pain.
I understand how you feel. Probably helpless and consequently hopeless. I wish I could help. But try to keep in mind you could find out what the problem is or how to fix it before long and don't give up.
You said that when your anxiety goes away so does the pain. Maybe you are staying very tensed up from the anxiety. After keeping you muscles clenched for a long time you can end up in some serious pain. Klonopin would treat the anxiety and would also relieve muscle tension. I guess I'm saying that you need to be on some anti anxiety med.
Marsha
Posted by Ilene on August 25, 2005, at 22:24:56
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 21:21:35
I think it's important to keep thinking of the people in your life. When I was suicidal I thought about how much pain it would bring to my husband and two teenagers.
Have you tried any other approaches, such as yoga, or other kinds of benzos? I'm trying cognitive-behavioral therapy to manage my depression. I just started, so I don't know if it's going to work. I think they teach ways of handling situations or thoughts that make you anxious.
You have my best wishes.
I.
Posted by 4WD on August 25, 2005, at 22:25:05
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain » Guy, posted by 4WD on August 25, 2005, at 22:24:02
Sorry, Guy, I just realized you already said you were on Klonopin. Does it not treat the anxiety?
Marsha
Posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 22:47:49
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
Marsha, the clonazepam helps, but perhaps I'm not taking enough. My pdoc said I could go up to 4 mg...right now I'm only on 1.5. Being an anxiety freak, I am afraid of addiction, tolerance, withdrawal, etc., etc. There are so many horror stories on the net about benzos and that doesn't help someone like me who is anxious about most everything. Yes, my family is what always makes me put the brakes on self-harm, although I often feel guilty about the trouble I am causing and the black cloud I bring to the household.
Posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2005, at 22:53:39
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 22:47:49
Guy, it's true what Marsha said I took cymbalta 60mg and didn't realize my back pain was gone until I quit. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by MidnightBlue on August 25, 2005, at 23:55:15
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
Tylenol can cause severe re-bound even DAILY headaches. The more you take the more you need and the less it works. You need to go to a headache specialist and go off meds. If you were in the states I would recommend the Diamond Heachache Center.
MB
Posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 26, 2005, at 2:53:52
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 22:47:49
I am sorry you are going through this, but you are not alone. There are many on this board who have been in the same frame of mind ... and still may be.
First of all, concerning your meds, when you don't get sleep, it makes everything 100 times worse. You have to take care of that problem immediately. I, also, have struggled for 9 years with anxiety, anxiety, anxiety. There were so many times I was hopeless. But I finally found one a few months ago, Seroquel. It takes out that nervous rage of energy I feel. I recommend you trying it. I sleep like a log.
As I'm sure you know, meds are the first step. You have to find something that will calm you down. However, MORE IMPORTANT is that you have to work on CHANGING YOUR MIND. You have to do things to get your mind off yourself and how you are feeling. Anxiety sufferes like us are probably the most self-absorbed people in the world. A great book is the "Anxiety Workbook" by Edmund Bourne. It teaches you techniques to take your mind off yourself and focus on the positives.
A great quote I heard is "life is all about positive distractions." Buy the Susan Jeffers CD "Feel the anxiety and do it anyways." She points out how people with cancer and deadly diseases choose to enjoy life with a great attitude.
There is HOPE, HOPE, HOPE.
Posted by bipolarspectrum on August 26, 2005, at 3:07:32
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 22:47:49
Hey Guy,
Fellow canadian here... I think u should see some specialists, such as a neurologist... The difficulty is making your way around the canadian healthcare system... I recommend u get ur foot in as many doors as possible... find a nice family physician, even use a walk-in clinic, then ask for multiple referees.. the waiting lists will be long, but (i believe) you require specialist care...
bps
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2005, at 6:33:51
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain, posted by bipolarspectrum on August 26, 2005, at 3:07:32
Get your magnesium levels checked.
In hospital I was having heart palps, anxiety, severe headache, and suicidiality. One smart Dr. checked mag levels for some reason and found I was severely depleated. They ordered it to be added to my meds.
It did help, not 100% but definate improvement.
Linkadge
Posted by tecknohed on August 26, 2005, at 11:40:51
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
I'm sorry things are so bad for you at the moment.
I dont have much advice I'm afraid but you may want to look into DLPA (D-L-Phenylalanine). It's a 'somewhat' natural remedy that seems to help pain by increasing the bodies own pain-killing chemicals. It can also help with mood and motivation. Here's a typical abstract that I found on line:
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/DLPAPainRelief.htm
You'll also find info on it in the 'Alternative' section here at Psychobabble.
Please be carefull though as I'm not sure what meds it might react with. SSRI's would be ok but as Remeron increases Noradrenaline (norepinephrine) and so does DLPA, there might be some interaction.
Babblemail me any time you like! (click on my name in blue, above).
Posted by ixus on August 26, 2005, at 14:04:19
In reply to Suicidal with pain, posted by Guy on August 25, 2005, at 16:07:06
Hi,
if you suffer from anxiety, the pain probably comes from muscles constrictions.
There is no point to blame medications for your problems. You started to take them to relieve the mental and physical pain. Is anxiety your major problem? How long has it lasted (I mean years)
/ixus
Posted by MidnightBlue on August 26, 2005, at 15:47:23
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain/Tylenol » Guy, posted by MidnightBlue on August 25, 2005, at 23:55:15
Guy,
I didn't mean go off ALL meds, just the pain meds that can cause rebound headaches. They can put you on something while you are doing this to make it easier. You really do need to see a neurologist.
MB
Posted by Declan on August 27, 2005, at 18:36:17
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain » Guy, posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2005, at 22:53:39
Milnacipran is suggested for the discomfort, if that's the right word, of fibromyalgia.
Declan
Posted by platinumbride on August 29, 2005, at 10:05:29
In reply to Re: Suicidal with pain » Guy, posted by Ilene on August 25, 2005, at 22:24:56
Guy,
I speak, as many here do, as a person who had a botched suicide attempt. Being in the hospital was worthless. They didnt' even get me on a med that worked, and it was very distressing to be surrounded by people who were, most definitely, chronically worse off than I. Screaming, fights, paranoid delusion - the works.
I have read some great sugeestions. Valium,in particular, might be good because it is a muscle relaxant as well as a benzodiazepine. Tramadol might help too (I know someone with chronic pain who gets a modicum of relief from it).I also started suffering from chronic pain in my lumbar spine. (Early onset osteo arthritis)Physical therapy was a joke. What really started showing results were swimming and yoga. I also found that a heating pad in the main area of the pain was helpful. I wonder what it would be like if you said "I have chronic pain. I find myself taking dangerously high doses of tylenol to no avail ( no doc wants their patient to die of liver failure) The pain is now affecting my life in ways I never imagined, like causing me terrible anxiety and depression...I have been through a litany of drugs, but I was hoping to try valium to ease the anxiety and relax the muscles and perhaps try tramadol. I would also lie and say that I am trying meditation or something like that so that they don't send you off with nothing but a book for meditation. Let them know you are trying holistic/natural things, but that you still need help with the pain.
I am not Canadian, so I don't know too much about the whole run around, but from what has been described, it sounds as if mentioning depression as an after-effect of your pain might make them take the whole thing more seriously.
I do wish you luck, and I believe that there is an answer....the challenge lies in mustering up the energy and the right doctors so that you may find it...
Diane
>
I think it's important to keep thinking of the people in your life. When I was suicidal I thought about how much pain it would bring to my husband and two teenagers.
>
> Have you tried any other approaches, such as yoga, or other kinds of benzos? I'm trying cognitive-behavioral therapy to manage my depression. I just started, so I don't know if it's going to work. I think they teach ways of handling situations or thoughts that make you anxious.
>
> You have my best wishes.
>
> I.
>
This is the end of the thread.
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