![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Bob (not Dr.) on September 7, 1999, at 12:54:54
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Roo on September 7, 1999, at 10:38:42
Actually, I think I took to my girlfriend so
quickly *because* she was a clinician-in-training.
I was terrified of the prospect of dating someone
who wouldn't be able to understand what I was
going through. As it turns out, she's quite human,
too (as I should have suspected!), and has her own
wants and needs which biases her as they do
everyone. The fact that she has some theory to
back up her biases actually causes some friction.
She's coming from a pure Freudian perspective
while I was trained as a researcher in a much more
"scientific" approach to theories of mind, self,
and social environment.On the handicap thing: I've had kinda the opposite
reaction, Roo. Being a good son from an Irish
working class family, I always blamed my troubles
on character defects that were (somehow) completely
within my power to change if I only would show the
will. Only very recently, practically two years
after I started on meds, did I come to realize
that not all, but perhaps the basis of my ills
were in my biology and not my character. Reading
Kay Jamison's "An Unquiet Mind" provided some
confirmation for me. She talks in her foreword, I
think, about being tired of hiding and lying about
who she is. So, seeing this as a "handicap" has
instead been somewhat liberating for me. I now
have this "make no apologies, take no prisoners"
attitude about my condition, and while I'm not
out there flaunting it ;^), I have also (actually,
for several years now) made a point of talking
about my depression quite matter-of-factly to
friends and co-workers whenever it comes up. Doing
so may have saved at least one life -- my older
brother's. He was even more hung up than me about
whose fault things were and not seeking treatment,
but he just recently hit a really low spot and
rather than doing something rash, he gave me a
call about what he should do to get help. (btw--I
talk about things this way because I feel that as
a psychologist, forget that I'm not a clinician, I
feel I have a professional responsibility to
demystify depression and 'mental illness' as much
as I can.) I guess the short of what I'm trying to
say is that by calling "depression" a "handicap",
there are two attributions you can make to that
causal relationship. You can see the handicap as
something internal to you and uncontrollable, which
probably evokes a sense of shame. On the other
hand, you can see it as external (since it is out
of the mind's realm of influence) and uncontrollable,
which is more likely to evoke a sense of anger.And that's what I've been fighting the last five
months or so ... being angry at something I've
been "stuck" with, trying to find someone or
something I can pin the blame on so that it could
do some good. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....re: meds. Been there, done most of them (like a
few others on Babble, I've noticed). Still doing
them -- zoloft, nortriptyline, and klonapin ...
plus lipitor, since the zoloft has made my
cholesterol jump about 80 points (to go with about
30 pounds I don't need!). Someday soon, I hope to
post something on my web page that sorta morphs
a chart of the meds I've been on to sheet music
for the Who's "The Real Me."
Posted by Roo on September 7, 1999, at 14:38:56
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Bob (not Dr.) on September 7, 1999, at 12:54:54
Yep, Bob, I think you hit the nail on the head.
What I truly crave is to have an unapologetic
attitude "This is who I am" attitude (not defensive
just secure) and not care so much what other people
think...
You're girlfriend's a Freudian, hun? Too weird...
although I've only learned about him on a very
elementary level, I never could get into him--especially
as a woman! (He just seemed really sexist).
Anyway, it's been fun chatting with you--I'm
feeling much better...I might have more questions
for you at some point regarding TCA's vs. SSRI's...
Posted by Bob (not Dr., but ABD) on September 7, 1999, at 16:43:29
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Roo on September 7, 1999, at 14:38:56
> What I truly crave is to have an unapologetic
> attitude "This is who I am" attitude (not defensive
> just secure) and not care so much what other people
> think...
Another thing for my web page (I really need to
get my priorities straight...more time doing web
stuff!) ... you could take the Oath of the BSUYB
Club and join the Campaign Against Negativity &
Cynicism Everywhere 'Round (CANCER). Of course,
if I ever get the motivation to reactivate this
part of my page, it'll be open to all y'all out
there in Babble-land. =^)> You're girlfriend's a Freudian, hun? Too weird...
You're telling me!.... ;^)> Anyway, it's been fun chatting with you--I'm
> feeling much better...I might have more questions
> for you at some point regarding TCA's vs. SSRI's...
My email is linked to my name in here, so write
when you want.Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Yardena on September 7, 1999, at 20:49:13
In reply to No apologies attitude..., posted by Bob (not Dr., but ABD) on September 7, 1999, at 16:43:29
Roo, Bob and John, Wow. Reading your posts is so moving to me. Lots to think about. I certainly can relate. Just too tired to elaborate tonight.
As for the Freudian girlfriend, give her a couple of years out of training and maybe she'll be less of a hardliner.
Posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 21:01:49
In reply to Re: No apologies attitude..., posted by Yardena on September 7, 1999, at 20:49:13
You guys expressed what I feel so often. It helps to know I am not the only one. I tend to avoid close relationships because of fear and the deep down conviction that I don't deserve it, can't handle it, will lose it, will be "found out", etc. I tend to hide my depression most of the time, but lately it has gotten harder to do. Hang in there, Roo.
Posted by Bob (just Bob) on September 7, 1999, at 22:07:15
In reply to Re: No apologies attitude..., posted by Yardena on September 7, 1999, at 20:49:13
> As for the Freudian girlfriend, give her a couple of years out of training and maybe she'll be less of a hardliner.
Not a chance ... she was a Freudian (literary criticism) before she got into the Derner Institute and now she wants to go the whole nine yards: after the PhD, psychoanalytic training ... maybe a training analyst one day .... living in NYC, she can afford to be a hard-liner.
One funny (in retrospect) thing about wanting to hide depression from dates -- one argument my girlfriend and I had that focused on my inability to meet her needs and the things I couldn't do (like paying my bills, ack!) that concerned her. It happens that we met thru one of those on-line personals services (hah!) ... she said at one point in the argument that I should have put my inability to pay bills in my ad!! Geez, it was funny even at the time -- it's so patently ridiculous a notion that there's no way I could take it as a serious barb.
Anyway, it makes me wonder ... what would my personal ad look like if I focused on what I'm scared is the "real me" -- Mr. Depressed-since-he-was-eight-and-still-counting -- instead of how I want to portray myself .... That could be a good way of learning to laugh at myself.... ;^)
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 23:19:33
In reply to Re: No apologies attitude..., posted by Bob (just Bob) on September 7, 1999, at 22:07:15
Bob,
First of all, you appear to be going through a rapidly cycling identity crisis. I see posts from Bob (not Dr.) and Bob (not Dr. but ABD) and (ABD) Bob, and now Bob (Just BOb). All in one evening. Can we vote on what to call you?
As for the personal ad, I definitely laughed out loud at the idea of "full disclosure" in your ad. You might think a hardline Freudian would have seen your full disclosure as exhibitionism stemming from unresolved issues in the anal period, or some such. Would your girlfriend have taken the bait if you had written a totally honest ad? It also reminds me of an old Saturday Nite Live sketch with Joe Montana (I think that's who it was), the football player, making light of his rep as a totally honest guy. They had him saying out loud all his honest thoughts, and it was hysterical (in the colloquial sense, not the Freudian sense; that would have been an altoghether different kind of SNL sketch).
The idea of full disclosure has aroused the cynic in me. So, let's start a "totally honest online dating personal ad" thread....it could go something like this:Depressed and lonely woman, somewhat fatigued and rundown, isolates self for entire weekends, Goes days without bathing or eating anything but microwave popcorn because there is nothing else in the house and it's too much effort to go outside. Hates to clean and do laundry and can barely get out of bed in the morning. Has difficulty enjoying much of anything. Intelligent but unmotivated...in search of attractive, intelligent, healthy fit, well adjusted, financially secure, open-minded, happy, emotionally aware but not needy man who loves life and will love me and will run out to the store for last minute refills on my prescriptions when needed, and most of all, will make me feel wonderful.
Yeah right.
Posted by Janice on September 8, 1999, at 0:28:14
In reply to Re: No apologies attitude..., posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 23:19:33
Great ad Noa! If more than one man responds, you can start giving the surplus #s on this board. Why can we write so much humour and so optimistically and then feel so bad at times? It's weird.Okay, relationships for me. I have a hard time handling someone else's moods around me at times. My moods are enough already! I swear to God, I could tell what kind of a day my boyfriend had by the way he turned the doorknob when he came home from work. I seem to have thought that I had to do his freaking out for him, he never realized it was necessary. A mate for me often means more moods to monitor.
The 3rd thing I'm interested in added to this discussion, because we all seem to have had and continue to have some pretty serious mood problems. I believe like Bob that I was born with a strong genetic predisposition for my illnesses. But I also had a very lousy childhood, abuse, neglect. Lately I've been thinking that I may not have even bonded with my mother. I'm curious as to how were your childhoods? Janice.
Roo, that guy is lucky.
Posted by Dee on September 8, 1999, at 1:41:03
In reply to Depression and Relationships, posted by Roo on September 7, 1999, at 7:29:17
I just survived a major relationship and the consequent major depressive episode.
For a very long time I didn't get involved in relationships of any kind (this was for about five years, it is only now that I am starting to see that it was five years of continuous, untreated depression.) I went pretty much weekend from weekend thinking to myself that I will have to change this or that about myself, because I simply didn't feel that I was good enough to be with anyone. In fact, I felt anyone close to me would think I was repugnant.
Until after five years I met someone and I dived in head first.
In the beginning everything was too good to be true (for a matter of a few weeks). I was able to chill out with all the loads I carry when we were together, in the beginning I literally left all the depression and anxiety behind, I felt good.
Unfortunately things wouldn't stay good, and I had to face that what I thought I had was based on lying, cheating and manipulation. I put an end to it all when I learned what the real deal is, but by that time I was so hooked at feeling ‘good', I only saw two possibilities: Get back together and feel good, or stay apart and suffer. I was in a deep, deep pit, and I had no choice but to make that one call. I wasn't able to function alone!
That's when things went from bad to worse. The old pattern of games and manipulation, lying and cheating started, and I was in pain because of it... Yet every time I tried to break out of it, just the attempt to say the word threw me into a humongous fit of anxiety, that overpowered me and at that point, every time, I would do no matter what to stay out of it. In other words, we stayed together.Because of the tremendous pain the separation would cause, I stayed in the relationship and basically allowed myself to be used as a doormat. Until the day came that I found that this mockery of love is causing me even more pain than breaking out would.
I was forced to choose to throw myself down in a major episode, this happened some time in May, and I am just now starting to be able to function. A good thing about this was that the pain finally grew so intense that I had no choice but to get help.
I was sexually abused, in a way, when I was a child... As far as I can remember, and I believe my memory serves me right, there was never an actual sexual act that took place. It was more like my father constantly got me in a spot where all I would have to do is reach with my hand to make it happen. Somehow giving the impression that the decision was mineI just leave it there, that's an issue that I feel very uncomfortable talking about. I am not making my therapist's job easy. Just for me, I find that I either have no attachment to people - I easily isolate from everybody, other people *are* important for me, sometimes I just cannot have them around. Then, maybe once in every ten years there is someone that is able to reach through that wall that I put between myself and everybody else, and I get excessively attached.
I've been going on about this for pages now, I think. I hope I make a little sense. Relationships are a very complicated, and a very painful issue for me.
Love
Dee
Posted by Dee on September 8, 1999, at 1:46:53
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Dee on September 8, 1999, at 1:41:03
Did I write breaking out... I meant breaking up.
Posted by Roo on September 8, 1999, at 7:34:27
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Dee on September 8, 1999, at 1:46:53
> I'm feeling much better now....the mood has passed...
now that I'm out of the pit and have a little more
perspective I've come to a place where I'm thinking:I have what it takes to be a good partner in a long
term relationship--I just have to be sure (because
of my depression) to make taking care of myself
my number one priority. I have to be careful and
guard against overextending myself....I also have
to give up the notion of being the Perfect Girlfriend,
or the Perfect Person...Damn I hate perfectionism...it is a DEMON!
Demon Be Gone! Can I get an Amen?It was really comforting to read everyone's responses
and to not feel alone on this issue.
Posted by Bob (vote early, vote often) on September 8, 1999, at 9:04:31
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Roo on September 8, 1999, at 7:34:27
Wow.
Not much more I can say about this thread. It just kinda pops my eyes out with each new message.
As for names ... the little guy on my left shoulder (left not as in 'sinister', but as in the reed that bends but does not break--the path of peace) says "Keep it up ... you don't know who the real you is anyway, and its kinda fun to think up new stuff and maybe people get a chuckle out of it." The little guy on my right shoulder says "Taurus feces!!! It's getting moldy ... just can the parenthetical comments, puh-leeze!" So, I'll out it to a vote. Send me email, if you want to vote. I'll post the results somewhere after this weekend.
My childhood? Prior to 8, life was pretty normal. From what I'm told (I remember next to nothing of that time), I was rather shy. Then on August 17, 1970, one of my brothers and my grandfather drowned in a boating accident on Lake Huron, with my dad and another brother clinging to to keel of their capsized boat for 18 hours before they were rescued. My father, his father, and the brother who died were all named Bernie -- so my dad lost his past and his future in one blow. To make matters worse, my mom blamed him for it all and still, 29 years later, doesn't forgive him. Those of us left in the aftermath were left to fend for ourselves.
My mom cannonized my dead brother, and that was the role model I had to live up to. I took twelve years or so, but I finally realized that the only way to reach that level of perfection was to be dead myself. The cosmic joke of it all was that I failed even at that! It took a few years, but I think that failed suicide attempt is what inspired me to adopt my "realist perfectionist" stance -- (1) perfection is the only acceptable end, (2) I am inherent incapable of achieving perfection, therefore (3) I'm not going to get my undies bunched about it anymore.
(Damn ... gotta go do some of that "work" stuff ....)
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Janice on September 8, 1999, at 22:23:16
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Bob (vote early, vote often) on September 8, 1999, at 9:04:31
Thanks guys. My take on it is that we all had traumatic childhoods and most likely were/are sensitive types anyway. My sisters are nowhere near as bad off as me although we lived through a similar childhood; they are not saddled with mental illnesses, they just have bad marriages, bury themselves with work, ect.(half joking). I am also (working on giving it up) a perfectionist, and I even have an eating disorder to prove it.
Dee, you said something like, 'I am a survivor a relationship...'. I thought it was funny.
Kindest regards, Janice
Posted by roo on September 10, 1999, at 14:17:31
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Bob (vote early, vote often) on September 8, 1999, at 9:04:31
Bob,
That's really terrible about what happened in your
family. I've thought about it a lot. The image of
your father and brother hanging onto the side of the
boat...damn. And then your mother's grief focused into
blaming... I am sorry you had to go through that. I'm
glad you're fighting the Perfectionism Demon with some
success.Someone mentioned being curious about childhood. Mine
was mostly Beaver Cleaver, relatively stable. Although
there was a very unstable/neglectful period for me
at what was probably a formative time--years 2 through
4. My family was in a religious commune, the kids lived
separately from the family. I was sent off to "camp"
when I was 3 years old for a month. I was really neglected
there, came back with pink eye and covered in infected
bites. I remember sleeping in my urine saturated sleeping
bag, and feces everywhere too. I remember during this
time period both my father and sister caught hepatitus.
Didn't get much attention
from my parents during those years, and taking care of the
kids was considered a lowly job on the totem pole for the
other folks in the commune, so we kids
didn't exactly get treated with warmth. I think we were
treated like we were a pain in the ass. Now it's often easy
for me to feel that way--Like I'm a burden and a pain in
the ass. I feel guilty anytime I have needs...My parents are good, supportive people, and I believe
they thought they were trying to do some good in the
world in a tough time--this was the 60's and 70's, and
part of the mission of this commune was to help rebuild
the inner city. Unfortunately, it wasn't so great for
us.I think that may have contributed to my depression.
I'm not sure. My dad also has depression and attempted
suicide before I was born..so it could also be
heriditary...although like Janice, it seems to have
effected me more than my sisters who are busy with
kids...
Posted by Noa on September 10, 1999, at 18:00:33
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by roo on September 10, 1999, at 14:17:31
I had a relatively trauma-free childhood, but it wasn't a happy one. Several medical hospitalizations at a very early age (2 mo., 2 yrs., 4 yrs., 7 yrs., 8 yrs). Mostly, though, there were "issues" in the family. My mother, I know she was trying her best, was hypercritical and tended to negate my perceptions and feelings. Also, lots of overt pressure to succeed, but covert mixed messages about being a failure. The family basically had no vocabulary for feelings. But the biological piece is there, too. I always suspected my mom had a covert depression. She was irritable a lot. And in the extended family--no out and out BP, but a grandmother on one side with depression, a grandfather on the other side with depression and alcoholism, several aunts and uncles with obsessive-compulsive-eating disordered "styles". One uncle who was "eccentric" to say the least. I think the relationship between biology and environment is so intertwined and complex, who knows what contributed to my depressive illness?
Posted by Barb on September 11, 1999, at 10:08:22
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by roo on September 10, 1999, at 14:17:31
> You call THAT Beaver Cleaverish! Honey, Post Traumatic Stess Disorder wouldn't be surprising in your case! Even a brief episode in the great vast scheme of your childhood can bring on severe emotional and relational reactions in some (most) people. And from your description you suffered some serious abuses, even if it was unintentional on your parents part. You were their number one responsibility and failed you on several fronts when you were most vulnerable and needy.
I am not saying they are hateful people deserving of hate or retribution. Possibly mentally ill in some way themselves. But I feel to find real COMPLETE healing, the complete TRUTH needs to be looked at objectively.Then, since it was your experience it can become very subjective, causing a lot of repressed emotion to surface or terrifying childhood memories to come into light.
I repeat, I don't believe anyone is out of the scope of forgiveness, and blame is certainly not the answer. But how can hurting adults become whole without looking at some of the root causes?
I am sorry for you, and I hope you can find forgiveness ("They know not what they do"), and healing of hurt memories. I know from personal experience that hurts heal, usually leave scars, but don't have to retraumatize us throughout our adult lives. Keep searching for all the peace you can find. God Bless!
Bob,
>
> That's really terrible about what happened in your
> family. I've thought about it a lot. The image of
> your father and brother hanging onto the side of the
> boat...damn. And then your mother's grief focused into
> blaming... I am sorry you had to go through that. I'm
> glad you're fighting the Perfectionism Demon with some
> success.
>
> Someone mentioned being curious about childhood. Mine
> was mostly Beaver Cleaver, relatively stable. Although
> there was a very unstable/neglectful period for me
> at what was probably a formative time--years 2 through
> 4. My family was in a religious commune, the kids lived
> separately from the family. I was sent off to "camp"
> when I was 3 years old for a month. I was really neglected
> there, came back with pink eye and covered in infected
> bites. I remember sleeping in my urine saturated sleeping
> bag, and feces everywhere too. I remember during this
> time period both my father and sister caught hepatitus.
> Didn't get much attention
> from my parents during those years, and taking care of the
> kids was considered a lowly job on the totem pole for the
> other folks in the commune, so we kids
> didn't exactly get treated with warmth. I think we were
> treated like we were a pain in the ass. Now it's often easy
> for me to feel that way--Like I'm a burden and a pain in
> the ass. I feel guilty anytime I have needs...
>
> My parents are good, supportive people, and I believe
> they thought they were trying to do some good in the
> world in a tough time--this was the 60's and 70's, and
> part of the mission of this commune was to help rebuild
> the inner city. Unfortunately, it wasn't so great for
> us.
>
> I think that may have contributed to my depression.
> I'm not sure. My dad also has depression and attempted
> suicide before I was born..so it could also be
> heriditary...although like Janice, it seems to have
> effected me more than my sisters who are busy with
> kids...
Posted by Barb on September 11, 1999, at 10:17:49
In reply to Re: No apologies attitude..., posted by Noa on September 7, 1999, at 23:19:33
> I just read your add! Wow can I relate. Except for the microwave popcorn. That's what I eat now, not depressed at work, 97% fat free, and really tasteless!
And sometimes when I was depressed, the staple food was a 12oz bag of semi-sweet chocolate chips and maybe coffee!
Bob,
>
> First of all, you appear to be going through a rapidly cycling identity crisis. I see posts from Bob (not Dr.) and Bob (not Dr. but ABD) and (ABD) Bob, and now Bob (Just BOb). All in one evening. Can we vote on what to call you?
>
> As for the personal ad, I definitely laughed out loud at the idea of "full disclosure" in your ad. You might think a hardline Freudian would have seen your full disclosure as exhibitionism stemming from unresolved issues in the anal period, or some such. Would your girlfriend have taken the bait if you had written a totally honest ad? It also reminds me of an old Saturday Nite Live sketch with Joe Montana (I think that's who it was), the football player, making light of his rep as a totally honest guy. They had him saying out loud all his honest thoughts, and it was hysterical (in the colloquial sense, not the Freudian sense; that would have been an altoghether different kind of SNL sketch).
>
> The idea of full disclosure has aroused the cynic in me. So, let's start a "totally honest online dating personal ad" thread....it could go something like this:
>
> Depressed and lonely woman, somewhat fatigued and rundown, isolates self for entire weekends, Goes days without bathing or eating anything but microwave popcorn because there is nothing else in the house and it's too much effort to go outside. Hates to clean and do laundry and can barely get out of bed in the morning. Has difficulty enjoying much of anything. Intelligent but unmotivated...in search of attractive, intelligent, healthy fit, well adjusted, financially secure, open-minded, happy, emotionally aware but not needy man who loves life and will love me and will run out to the store for last minute refills on my prescriptions when needed, and most of all, will make me feel wonderful.
>
> Yeah right.
Posted by roo on September 13, 1999, at 7:57:05
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Barb on September 11, 1999, at 10:08:22
Barb,
Thanks for your caring response, and also thanks
for making me smile ("You call THAT Beaver Cleaverish?
Honey...")It's only been in the past year or so I've admitted
it was a big deal...before I always felt like I
was feeling sorry for myself if I thought about it
or made something out of it. So it's been gratifying/
validating in a way to hear of other's perception
of the whole thing. My therapist agreed that I probably
experience PTS as a result.I guess the saddest thing for me is that I find it
so hard to feel loved and cared for, and that I can't
seem to feel ok about any of my feelings, they all
seem "wrong"--especially anger and depression--I always
feel like I'm going to be left/abandoned if I let it
all hang out.
Maybe in my 3 year old mind I blamed myself for waht
happened and thought I was left because I was angry
and sad all the time. I don't know.I hope healing can occur. I fear I'll never be able
to be in a happy romantic relationship b/c of all
my depression. Thanks again for writing, Barb.
Posted by Bob on September 13, 1999, at 8:38:37
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships--barb, posted by roo on September 13, 1999, at 7:57:05
> It's only been in the past year or so I've admitted
> it was a big deal...before I always felt like I
> was feeling sorry for myself if I thought about it
> or made something out of it....
>
> I guess the saddest thing for me is that I find it
> so hard to feel loved and cared for, and that I can't
> seem to feel ok about any of my feelings, they all
> seem "wrong"--especially anger and depression--I always
> feel like I'm going to be left/abandoned if I let it
> all hang out.Roo, that sounds so familiar it's bringing me to tears. So often, especially when dealing with charged emotions, I can't help but feel I'm stuck back at 8 yrs old. Then, whenever the slightest hint of self-pity crept in, I'd beat myself up thinking that I was inventing things, I was just being weak, that because of all this I didn't deserve anyone's attention or good will.
Geez, kids can come up with some pretty twisted, acrobatic reasoning. And I'm *still* pretty good at it.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Grace on September 13, 1999, at 21:37:00
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Bob on September 13, 1999, at 8:38:37
You two are not inventing things. Both your childhoods sound very tragic to me. Take care of yourselves, Grace.
Posted by Scotster on October 5, 2000, at 13:49:26
In reply to Roo and Bob, posted by Grace on September 13, 1999, at 21:37:00
Hi there. I am new to this site, and I guess I came here looking for answers to some of the questions I have been having as I flirt with another bad episode of depression. My question is, do any of you ever struggle with such things like, am I really in love? Is this the person for me? Etc... I have all the other thoughts to, like I am not good enough, or how can they deal, or how can I deal, etc....
I don't know... I guess I am just curious if anyone else ever feels like they don't love enough, or sometimes just feels really cutoff from the love they once had, when not in the midst and depths of what I like to call, the darkness.
Posted by roo on October 6, 2000, at 15:39:59
In reply to Hello everyone, posted by Scotster on October 5, 2000, at 13:49:26
Yeah, I struggle with that stuff all the time...
especially lately. It's been a year or so since
that thread and a lot has changed...I was engaged
to my boyfriend and we are now broken up. When
I first met him I thought he was the love of my
life...then I became doubtful and unsure, and had
such anxiety about getting married that I had to
call things off. I still struggle with whether it
was the right decision or not. I still wonder "was
I ever really in love?", "Did I fall into a depression
and that's why everything fell apart?" Or "Am I just
being self doubtful and not trusting my gut feelings?".
Heck yeah, scorcher, I struggle with that shit all
the time. I'm lost in the woods half the time, prayin'
for a candle, girl. (or boy, whichever the case).
What sorts of things are you going through right now
specifically that make you wonder these things?
Posted by Richard on February 13, 2001, at 20:31:21
In reply to Depression and Relationships, posted by Roo on September 7, 1999, at 7:29:17
Wow, reading all of these posts has really added understanding to what I have been going through. I met this wonderful woman about 7 months ago and she is the Love of my life. I felt so warm around her. We talked about how we both felt REAL Love for the first time in our lives. Everything was wonderful. She Loves my family, I Love hers and everything seemed perfect. I knew early on in our relationship that she suffered from depression and was taking Prozac regularly. I witnessed two "panic attacks" of hers and just held her tight, told her I Loved her, settled her down until they passed. She later told me that nobody else had ever done that before and she told me that she thought I was a very special man. Then things started changing. She turned 40, found out that her daughter (married and living with her with the son-in-law) was pregnant. She thinks that she is too young (21) to have a child. She found out that her Father (her rock) was leaving the state to care for his elderly sick Mother. She then woke up one morning, told me that she wasn't going to see me that weekend, and then later told me that she "needed some space" and needed to think about whether or not she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. It's been a roller coaster ride ever since. I truly Love this woman, and am convinced that we were meant to be together. I truly think that I am understanding of her problem and can handle it. It is the night of February 13th and I have taken the day off from work to go see her and take her a little Valentines Day gift. A red silk covered heart shaped box with chocolates and another smaller heart shaped box with a diamond pendant necklace. I wrapped the ribbon of a heart shaped helium baloon (says Happy Valentines Day) around the box and I'm going to take it to her. I want so badly to hold her close, tell her I Love her, tell her I am here if she needs me. Just want to make sure she at least knows that I do still Love her and I do care for her deeply.
Posted by allisonm on February 14, 2001, at 2:30:05
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships, posted by Richard on February 13, 2001, at 20:31:21
Dear Richard,
I feel badly for you. It sounds as though you are a very thoughtful and understanding person.
Having depression can be difficult to say the least, but adding the stresses that your lady has had since you met her would jolt anyone. It sounds as though she could be going through several changes all at once, which can feel like loss. You may need to give her space to grieve.
It's hard enough to lose someone, but losing one while battling depression -- even if it's temporary(?) such as her father's leaving the state can be a terrible blow. If her father is her rock, she's lost a major source of nearby familial support. It sounds as though her grandmother is failing. Was she close to her? That could be another impending loss that she's feeling.
Turning 40 is another milestone; her childbearing years are coming to an end. I just turned 39 and am feeling this as well. Depending upon her attitude toward her age, could be a source of grief for a (perceived) loss of youth.
If she just turned 40, she probably had her daughter when she was 19, which isn't too far off from 21. She may be having strong feelings about her own experiences as a young mother. Also, this means the relationship with her daughter will be changing. Her daughter will be a mother and she will be a grandmother. I've not had children, but I can remember when my best friend started having children, I felt jealous and somewhat abandoned because I knew our friendship would never be the same. She wouldn't be as free to spend time with me; her life would change forever. Assuming the living arrangements stay the same, the prospects of having an infant in her house also might be quite unsettling for your lady.
Lots of change. Lots of possible feelings of loss. It is important to be there to listen to her talk out her feelings. I have found my most valuable resources are my friends who understand how I am feeling and who are willing to listen to me. I don't know the dynamics of your relationship, but she may be feeling pressure there, too. Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone is a big decision -- especially when the other major relationships in her life are changing as much as they are.
I would give her what she asks -- space, a sympathetic ear, no pressure, time to think, time to grieve for these life changes, but also love and understanding.
Does she have a therapist? If so, this person might help her sort out all of these feelings. If not, I'm not sure how you would go about suggesting it. I have suggested to friends in distress that maybe it would help if they talked to someone (ie, counselor, therapist) about what they were feeling. But that could be a very touchy, off-putting subject.
Good luck.
Allison
Posted by Richard on February 14, 2001, at 7:09:43
In reply to Re: Depression and Relationships » Richard, posted by allisonm on February 14, 2001, at 2:30:05
Happy Valentines Day Allison!
Thanks for the Good Luck! I need it...She is not very close to her Grandmother but she sure is with her Father. Not really close to her Mother either. There are some issues in her past with her changing family. Her Mother pretty much abandoned her when she was a child, her Father, brothers, and a few sisters are still very close. She can't have any more children and her daughter and son-in-law are planning on moving out soon to be more or less on their own.
Our relationship decisions were very mutual. I wasn't trying to pressure her in the least bit. In fact, she had already sat down and had a talk with the household and told them that she was moving out soon to be with me. I ALMOST rented a two bedroom apartment for us but at the last minute I agreed to move in with her in her house, as soon as her daughter made plans. This decision made her happy, it's a much longer drive to work for me but I am willing to do just about anything to have this Lady in my life. In fact, when we first started becomming serious, I told her that I didn't want to make any permanent decisions as far as marriage for one year from the date we met. Just to make sure. She was comfortable with this. It happened so very fast. She would tell me (very recently) that she Loved me more than anyone else in her life and was convinced that God had brought us together. She is a very religious soul and I have made some changes because of her influence. I felt a glow from her the first time we met, have been in that glow ever since. But now, she hardly will call me. I have given her space but do call maybe once a week to assure her that I still care, still Love her, and still believe in her.
She does have a therepist and just last week called me in tears telling me she knows she is suffering, knows she needs to talk to someone, and has an appointment on the first of next month. I wish as she probably does, that this could come sooner. She also said that she feels led (by who?) to be alone right now. I am giving her space but I want her to know that there is NO OTHER that I am even considering. I just can't wrap my mind around being with anyone else.
Well, I just got up, got my first cup of coffee, 'bout to get into the shower and put on my best for her. I just want her to have something for Valentines Day and also to let her know that I understand, care, and Love her deeply.
Thanks for your quick reply.
Richard
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