![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 178 to 202 of 205. Go back in thread:
Posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 13:30:37
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » fuji, posted by Larry Hoover on April 14, 2003, at 9:33:26
Good suggestion, I will do that this evening. I don't think Mg can build up can it? I didn't think i was cumulative like NADH, I thought the body excreted what it didn't use? Maybe I excrete it slower? Who knows.
The other possibility for me is that it might make my benzo dose somehow stronger or add to the effect. I found when I lowered my dose the fatigue seemed to abate some. Don't know if this means anything, but if I can get somewhat stable after a month or so I might try to lower my benzo and see what happens or lower it while increasing Mg. Just have to be patient and try things I guess like you suggested and not get into such a hurry. Thanks. take care
Johnj
Posted by JLx on April 14, 2003, at 14:23:10
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 13:30:37
Hi, John J.
I hope you can get this to work for you long term as it did temporarily.
I suggest that you check out what Eby has on his site about sleep. He has a link to his section "High quality sleep" right under the main title now, or click here: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#sleep
I follow all of his dietary advice (no caffeine, no sugar, no high glycemic foods, no aspartame, etc.), including taking 3 mg of melatonin and 50 mg of 5-HTP at night, plus 200 mg magnesium glycinate or a Epsom Salt bath. AND I also take about 1 gram of glycine at night. I have chronic back pain and also have a lot of tension in my back and I read that glycine is especially good to relax the spinal area. (Per "Depression Free Naturally" by Joan Mathews Larson.) I take 1300 mg of Evening Primrose oil with that, and usually a small piece of fruit such as apple. I figure it all helps with absorption. So far, it's been foolproof in getting me to sleep no matter how wound up I feel or how much my mind is worrying my financial situation.
I've also been so diligently avoiding calcium in my diet that now that some weeks have elapsed, I am adding back some by drinking spring water half the time, especially in the evening, with a 3:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium. It's supposed to be very absorbable that way, it's not much calcium overall and I figured I needed it because I was getting little cramps in my feet at night.
"Fiji" brand water has an almost equal amount of magnesium to calcium, btw. According to their bottle anyway. It also has silica and other minerals.
When I was taking Prozac and could never sleep, I started taking GABA before bed and that helped. I'm not sure of the chemistry there, I had just read about it in a book I have on amino acids and tried it. I mentioned it to my psychiatrist then, and she said it "made sense" that it would work and was going to recommend it to her other patients.
Posted by syringachalet on April 14, 2003, at 21:59:21
In reply to Re: 3 tsp-to-tablespoon , posted by McPac on April 12, 2003, at 23:28:28
If you are ever truly concerned, they have those measuring medication spoons at the drug counter that people use to measure out medication for infants and small children.
( Most MDs these days prescribe children and elderly peoples medications according to kilogram body weight and not age. Not all five year olds are 60 pounds..if you get my drift.)Just a friendly FYI.
syringachalet
Posted by fuji on April 15, 2003, at 18:42:58
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 13:30:37
I will start back tomorrow on 200mg and see how that goes and will report back.
fuji
Posted by Jaynee on April 16, 2003, at 15:09:59
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate, posted by fuji on April 15, 2003, at 18:42:58
I was wondering if magnesium gluconate will work? I have taken it before and it did help me relax some what. Going to try again. The reason I bought the gluconate, is because it comes in liquid form, because I hate swallowing those horse size mag pills.
Posted by JLx on April 17, 2003, at 7:01:00
In reply to I bought magnesium gluconate, is it any good?, posted by Jaynee on April 16, 2003, at 15:09:59
> I was wondering if magnesium gluconate will work? I have taken it before and it did help me relax some what. Going to try again. The reason I bought the gluconate, is because it comes in liquid form, because I hate swallowing those horse size mag pills.
I don't know anything about that form. Let us know how it works.
Posted by SLS on April 22, 2003, at 11:55:44
In reply to Re: I bought magnesium gluconate, is it any good? » Jaynee, posted by JLx on April 17, 2003, at 7:01:00
> > I was wondering if magnesium gluconate will work?
> I don't know anything about that form. Let us know how it works.
I started taking 400mg magnesium glycinate a few days ago. I have been taking it in the morning. It seems that I have been sleepy all day long. Is this normal? Is this something that only happens with the glycinate?Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 1:13:28
In reply to Re: I bought magnesium gluconate, is it any good? » JLx, posted by SLS on April 22, 2003, at 11:55:44
> I started taking 400mg magnesium glycinate a few days ago. I have been taking it in the morning. It seems that I have been sleepy all day long. Is this normal? Is this something that only happens with the glycinate?
Hi Scott,Mg does the same thing to me. Therefore, I take it at bedtime (or about 30 minutes before) then it serves a duel function. First, it is a great sleep aid and, second, I'm convinced that it facilitates improved brain functioning. Ramp up to about 1000 mg/day. Lower the dose temporarily if you get diarrhea and then try the higher dose again by ramping up more slowly. IMO, Mg is worthwhile.
Hey, a couple months ago you suggested that I consider adding a little SAM-e to my Enada NADH. Well I tried something very similar to your suggestion and it is working out quite well so far. Thanks for the suggestion! I will probably post something on this later, but the bottom line is that I added a daily dose of the methyl donor TMG and, so far, the results are good. Larry Hoover takes TMG (or betaine as he calls it) which is what caused me to do some further reading on it.
Hoover takes a bunch of other supplements that I also want to try. So I went to the nutritional store today (well I guess it was yesterday since it is now past midnight). Anyway, I spent a ton of my wife’s money and brought home the goods. I’ll try them one at a time until I figure out which one does what.
Best wishes Scotty.
-- Ron
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 7:46:18
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 1:13:28
Posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:10:26
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 1:13:28
> Therefore, I take it at bedtime (or about 30 minutes before) then it serves a duel function. First, it is a great sleep aid and, second, I'm convinced that it facilitates improved brain functioning. Ramp up to about 1000 mg/day.
You take all 1000 mg at once? Don't you think this is a waste as your body can only use so much at a time? Or am I wrong? I would like to take it all at bedtime but I thought that would not be efficient.
Posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 15:46:33
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime, posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:10:26
Hi Jack,
> You take all 1000 mg at once?
Yep.
> Don't you think this is a waste as your body can only use so much at a time?
Don't know. But Mg is relatively inexpensive. 1000 mg feels more beneficial than 600 mg, so my subjective analysis is that my body is soaking up at least some of the incrementally higher dose.
> I would like to take it all at bedtime but I thought that would not be efficient.
It makes logical sense that a divided dose would be more efficient. However, if I take anywhere close to a therapeutic dose during the day or evening, I get very sleepy. When I take it at bedtime, within a few minutes I can literally feel the Mg working in my brain making me relaxed, calm, and sleepy.
Zzzzzzz. Oops, sorry. I almost fell asleep just thinking about it.
-- Ron
P.S. Please note that I changed the subject line from "Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime" to the more accurate title of "Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime"
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 20:21:56
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » Jack Smith, posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 15:46:33
> It makes logical sense that a divided dose would be more efficient. However, if I take anywhere close to a therapeutic dose during the day or evening, I get very sleepy.
Hi Ron.Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
- Scott
Posted by Ron Hill on April 24, 2003, at 1:16:12
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime, posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 20:21:56
Hi Scott,
> Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
Don't know. Never tried it. I currently take Mg citrate and Mg Malate. If I were to guess, I'd say no. Larry would know if he is out and a-bow-t (e's Canadian, ay) and roaming the halls.
-- Ron
Posted by bluedog on April 25, 2003, at 22:50:08
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 24, 2003, at 1:16:12
And I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts either:):)
regards
bluedog
> Hi Scott,
>
> > Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
>
> Don't know. Never tried it. I currently take Mg citrate and Mg Malate. If I were to guess, I'd say no. Larry would know if he is out and a-bow-t (e's Canadian, ay) and roaming the halls.
>
> -- Ron
>
Posted by lawrence S. on April 26, 2003, at 1:11:13
In reply to Larry, looks like Ron wants your thoughts on this!, posted by bluedog on April 25, 2003, at 22:50:08
Why does Mg make me so tired? I took it at bedtime and I was sleepy for 2 days afterward. I would even fall asleep while eating. I also take Nardil.
Is magnesium more of a mood stabilizer than a mood brightener?
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2003, at 8:52:41
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 24, 2003, at 1:16:12
> Hi Scott,
>
> > Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
>
> Don't know. Never tried it. I currently take Mg citrate and Mg Malate. If I were to guess, I'd say no. Larry would know if he is out and a-bow-t (e's Canadian, ay) and roaming the halls.
>
> -- Ron
>That's a-boot, Ron, eh?
Here's some links on glycine:
http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/proteins_glycine.html
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/gly_0127.shtmlIt is inhibitory, and may work synergistically with mood stabilizers in bipolar subjects. I couldn't find anything that addresses sleep per se.
Lar
Posted by johnj on April 28, 2003, at 13:59:47
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime, posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2003, at 8:52:41
<<Dear Mr. Eby:
I have visited your website from someone that posted it on Dr. Bob's (pyscho babble) website. I had a great experience for around 9 days on Mg citrate and maxed out at 600 mg(taking at night). I started to have sleep problems such as waking up early and just felt really tired. After doing some research I have found Mg can cause sleep disturbances and others on the website have posted similiar problems from taking Mg. What is your take/advice on dosing? Have you heard about this sleep problem from others? I do take a low dose TCA, lithium, and a benzo. If I take 600 mg of Mg citrate it makes me spacey the next day and makes me feel very weak. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Johnj>>Response:
<< I am not certain what causes the "sleep problem". I do to bed and fall asleep at 10:30 and instantly fall asleep, and wake up at about 4 am every morning and am ready to go. I do much creative work in those early hours, but would prefer to sleep (because I default to lazy). I think that the cause is not so much too much magnesium, but something else that is unmasked by the magnesium. Tentatively, I think that chromium and vanadium are also needed by many people. These agents seem to improve sleep duration and VERY greatly increase energy but the reason is not totally clear at this time, beyond their obvious effects on insulin resistance, which may be the cause of much depression. Search my site http://coldcure.com/html/dep.html for "insulin". Too much sugar is very high on the list of sleep problems instigators, and all of us need to cut out all soluble glucose intake. Dosing of MG varies between people, but a good initial dose is 400 mg magnesium with breakfast, same with lunch and supper and at bed time. That amount can be lowered as desired. However, the need for magnesium with meals can not be overstated. 600 mg MG at one bedtime dose is more than I have ever tried, so perhaps it would make a person wired, weak or spacey, I don't know. If it causes diarrhea, the diarrhea itself can and usually is the cause of problems you described. Diarrhea must be avoided at all costs, and elimination of soluble sugars from the diet will help prevent diarrhea.
Hope that helps.
George
>>
Posted by johnj on April 28, 2003, at 16:46:53
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime, posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2003, at 8:52:41
Hi Larry:
I have been out of it for a while and I see you had a bout of pneumonia too. How are you doing? I had a bout about 1.5 years ago and recovered, but it took a long time to get my wind back. I stretched a lot of muscles coughing. Hope you are not that sore. It is wicked stuff to get that is for sure. It was the sickest I have ever been, in the physical sense. Maybe it is not too late for me to also try some probiotics. My stomach was upset while I took 600 mg of Mg. I think with my meds it may be wise to try some probiotics.
I ended up sick last week, fever blisters, after eating terrible all weekend. A friend from the UK was visiting and I indulged and paid for it. Stuff I used to eat without any ramifications, but now is a no no.
I emailed George Eby about my Mg problems which is somewhat peristent to this day(I only take 200 mg a day). What do you think about the Chromium and vanadium addition? Whould TMG be of any benefit to me? I am not sure what is does, I just noticed you and Ron talking about it. Also, the chromium has different kinds...what would you suggest?
I saw my doc on Friday and he wants me to back off my benzo some. I take 22.5 mg of tranzene. Of course, I broke a 7.5 in half and have had some anxiety the last few days. The Mg mellows me at night, just wish I could sleep better. The combo of Mg and benzo may be what is making me so tired. Would love to go off the benzo for good, but that is a way down the road.
Thank you Larry. take care.
johnj
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 29, 2003, at 10:45:20
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 28, 2003, at 16:46:53
> Hi Larry:
>
> I have been out of it for a while and I see you had a bout of pneumonia too. How are you doing? I had a bout about 1.5 years ago and recovered, but it took a long time to get my wind back. I stretched a lot of muscles coughing. Hope you are not that sore. It is wicked stuff to get that is for sure. It was the sickest I have ever been, in the physical sense. Maybe it is not too late for me to also try some probiotics. My stomach was upset while I took 600 mg of Mg. I think with my meds it may be wise to try some probiotics.Sickest I've ever been, methinks. I'm lucky, I guess, in that I responded within hours to all the meds that were pumped into me.
You hurt your leg, you can sit around, use a wheelchair, or a crutch. But what the hell do you do when it's your lungs that aren't working?
> I ended up sick last week, fever blisters, after eating terrible all weekend. A friend from the UK was visiting and I indulged and paid for it. Stuff I used to eat without any ramifications, but now is a no no.
>
> I emailed George Eby about my Mg problems which is somewhat peristent to this day(I only take 200 mg a day). What do you think about the Chromium and vanadium addition? Whould TMG be of any benefit to me? I am not sure what is does, I just noticed you and Ron talking about it. Also, the chromium has different kinds...what would you suggest?TMG can be activating. So activating, in my body, that I'm virtually guaranteed to develop insomnia unless I am extremely careful. You just have to try it and see. I'd start at 1 gram/day and see what happens. Source Naturals brand, available at Hilife Vitamins and Herbs, is a good choice.
Chromium is often made available as the picolinic acid salt, chromium picolinate. I really don't have any idea why they use that particular form.
> I saw my doc on Friday and he wants me to back off my benzo some. I take 22.5 mg of tranzene. Of course, I broke a 7.5 in half and have had some anxiety the last few days. The Mg mellows me at night, just wish I could sleep better. The combo of Mg and benzo may be what is making me so tired. Would love to go off the benzo for good, but that is a way down the road.
> Thank you Larry. take care.
>
>
> johnjJohn, I think it was Kenny Rogers who sang "You gotta....Know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, And know when to fight."
You try something and it doesn't work, you move on. You're smarter than you were. If it works, you keep it, and maybe try something else. Maybe magnesium isn't for you, ya know?
I'm just about to climb into a truck. See ya.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on April 29, 2003, at 11:13:38
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » johnj, posted by Larry Hoover on April 29, 2003, at 10:45:20
> TMG can be activating. So activating, in my body, that I'm virtually guaranteed to develop insomnia unless I am extremely careful. You just have to try it and see. I'd start at 1 gram/day and see what happens.
Hi Larry,
Yikes!! One gram per day??!! . Ray Sahelian, M.D., in his book titled "Mind Boosters: A Guide to Natural Supplements that Enhance Your Mind, Memory, and Mood", recommends taking no more than 250 mg/day and to skip days periodically. Larry, Johnj is med sensitive and, therefore, one gram per day might be way too much for him. (As usual, I'm always happy to jump in with my opinion).
> I'm just about to climb into a truck. See ya.
Be safe, have fun, and listen to some good stuff on the radio. Do you take a laptop on the road? You're a long-haul driver, right? Where are you headed on this run?
-- Ron
Posted by johnj on April 29, 2003, at 16:57:40
In reply to Re: TMG Daily Dose » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on April 29, 2003, at 11:13:38
Hi Ron How are things going?
I have had some real ups and downs, and saw my doc on Friday. It had been a while and we talked about Mg He didn't say much as usual. I think I may have to find a doctor that is interested in more than just meds. I like my doc personally, but get little feedback.
In the post above on my response from George Eby I realized that he only sleeps about 5.5 hours a day. I have continued to take some Mg and like the calming effect it gives me, but not near what I was at (400 to 600 mg). I think I need to keep some because it is a great anxiety releiver. I should have tried this instead of raising my benzo dose last summer. My doc wants me to lwwer the benzo dose and the last few days were a little rough, but last night I slept better. I have a feeling there is an additive aspect of the Mg and benzo. It would sure be nice to lower it so I am not bumping into things as much! How do you like the 5-htp? On Eby's website it said you should take some melatonin with it, but I am not sure why. I meant to ask Larry about this, but he is on the road.
Thanks for the advice on TMG. I may get some and start very low.
Thank you and Larry for all the helo.
take care
johnj
Posted by tealady on September 17, 2003, at 7:49:03
In reply to Re: 3 tsp-to-tablespoon , posted by McPac on April 12, 2003, at 23:28:28
> "Are you dealing with everyday cutlery, or spoons designed for measuring?"
>
> Oooops! Regular, eating utensils! Sorry.
>Mc Pac ..that's a dessertspoon.
Two dessertspoons = 1 tablespoon..supposedly
Jan
Posted by tealady on September 17, 2003, at 8:10:37
In reply to Re: Is my Maths correct? » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 11, 2003, at 12:20:20
> > > Hi Larry
> > >
> > > I ended up buying the cheaper of the two substances because the supplier only had a 500g quantity avaialable of the (slightly) less pure substance in my city. However I contacted the companies head office and they assured me that the BP grade I purchased was actually Pharmaceutical grade AND food grade and was in fact pure enough to feed intravenously to hospital patients. The company actually pointed out to me that the BP grade Mag Chlor I was purchasing would in all probability be purer than the tap water I drink each day with regard to trace element contaminants so I felt safe purchasing the BP grade Mag Chlor.
Sooo.. WHERE did you get it from!!!...here I have been all year making my own Mg Cl2 out of Epsoms Salts BP (from 1 kg packets at Woolies or Coles) and NaCl..cooking salt.I actually prefer a sodium/mag chloride mix..just to be sure I get all the sulphate out...I think you are supposed to mix 4 spoons of epsoms salts to 2 spoons of sodium chloride to get the right mix??? ..the first time I mixed it the other way around and it was really just like normal salt in taste, ands I guess fine in place of normal salt..which is the amount I used on food.
Now I just mix 3 spoons of each dissolved in a little water, put in freezer..when crystals form..filter the jelly-crystals thru an old stocking (or some filter, probably a coffee paper filter would be better if I had one) and repeat the freeze-filter process a couple of times.
Leave as a solution and just use a couple of drops at a time instead of salt, say in oatmeal, or on steak..that's been heaps for me!
Lar, do I have this right?..is the same amount of each a sodium/magnesium chloride mix? That's what I want to achieve.Hopefully with all the sulphate out.
I also use the epsom salts in baths.Bluedog..just buying it would be much easier...I'm in Oz too.
Jan
Posted by Sebastian on September 20, 2003, at 18:46:40
In reply to Re: 3 tsp-to-tablespoon » McPac, posted by tealady on September 17, 2003, at 7:49:03
Real measuring spoons.
Sebastian
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on September 2, 2006, at 18:06:46
In reply to An editor you said.... » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on March 30, 2003, at 15:10:07
This is my contribution to an old thread which I have been reading to update some figures on elemental level of magnesium in various preparations.I notice the subject of fibro, otherise known as fibromyalgia is mentioned. If you have that nasty painful condition consider taking low dose naltrexone. Some of my patients have done really well on it.The site is at www.lowdosenaltrexone.org.It is not really alternative in that you will probably need a prescription but having prescribed it myself for certain cases of cancer,MS,autoimmune diseases and even motor neurone disease I am very impressed by the many good results I have seen,although it does not work for everybody. I think it has antidepressant effects too as I have seen many cases where the depression lifted in a short time when it was being prescribed for something else.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.