Posted by Willful on November 21, 2010, at 23:47:39
In reply to Re: Public Apology To All Past And Present, posted by Solstice on November 21, 2010, at 17:40:32
Interesting points, Solstice.
For me so far, it isn't a black and white situation. I may know that someone's behavior will persist and decide to have them in my life, despite that-- but I"m not sure that it's quite as simple as accepting their behavior as a given. That is, perhaps it would be ideal if I could be so impervious to their repeatedly hurting my feelings-- and could see it as my decision and be content with that. But for me, life is a bit messier-- and I can't always simply cut them off, or clearly accept their limitations without objection.
So for me there's a middle ground between those two, even if it's not a comfortable one, of being in a cycle of repeated hurt and possibly repeated frustration or annoyance with someone. It feels like a morass and perhaps it is one, but for me, life so far hasn't involved many clear up/down yes/no choices. In those situations, perhaps like this one, you are drawn into behaving badly yourself as the price of having the other person in your life. I don't know if it's a price worth paying, but sometimes relationships, or community, bring out less good sides of ourselves in the process of our adapting to, or integrating with another important person or group.
I agree that apologies, to be real apologies, have to be in the form, I am sorry for doing x. I am sorry if I have done x has never seemed like an apology, nor does the similar, I apologize for anything I"ve done to hurt you-- because the issue is invariably one of a specific act or pattern of acts, and one of things done, not things which if they were done would need an apology.
I'm of two minds about forgiveness, to which I prefer turning toward oneself and looking for what in oneself is a challenge, just as this issue, is a challenge for the other person--and thereby identifying with the other person's struggle as like one's own--even if they are not as aware of the struggle or are not successful in meeting the challenge.. I don't necessarily think it's easy to carry this out -- and it's made more difficult by the tangential nature of relationships in online communities, where one can sometimes seem to see only the problematic aspects of the other person, rather than having a fuller sense of their virtues and limitations.
I imagine everyone involved in this thread has internal issues that drew them into the discussion-- limitations and frustrations that were evoked by the limitations and frustrations of others. I suppose that's very much what happens in communities, where people are connected enough to evoke these echoes within each others minds. This can cause outbreaks of hurtfulness, which are hard to heal-- again here especially since our ties are so ephemeral.
So I think we can only inhabit this middle ground where some things with some people can be resolved for a period of time, but there will always be lapses and regressions-- and mistakes made.
I just wish the moderation here were more consistent and ongoing, so some of this could be nipped in the bud. Especially now with the ability to apologize for actions or words, I feel as if more immediate responses could lead to more civility and fewer, or shorter blocks. Maybe someday--
Willful
poster:Willful
thread:970920
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20101029/msgs/970981.html