Posted by special_k on April 5, 2006, at 22:38:21
In reply to Re: careful deneb... » special_k, posted by Deneb on April 5, 2006, at 20:32:59
> > if you poke hard enough
> > you might see him shake
> > and then what?
> > you will feel hurt, disappointed, let down, and full of rage.
> You mean I could make Bob angry? I think I would be upset if Bob got angry at me.
That wasn't quite what I meant. Lets take a time when you get blocked. In your better moments you understand why you were blocked. But when you are blocked (and hurting about that) sometimes you send lots of emails about how much it hurts to be blocked and begging to be unblocked. And so you think you want to be unblocked (and yeah, you probably do). But then if you were unblocked for having sent those emails then you would probably (in the long term) not have so much respect / love for him. Because it is hard to respect someone who is swayed too much from that kind of pressure. (Not ruling out that maybe Bob goes to the other extreme sometimes). Not sure how much sense I'm making.
My thought was more that if you see him as a rock and poke and realise that he isn't the rock you thought he was then you will feel really let down and hurt and it is you who will likely feel angry.
Some people talk about it as how the trouble with idealisation is that it can too easily swing to disillusionment and devaluation if you perceive that the idealised object (bob) hasn't lived up to your expectations... Not sure how helpful that is...
> I know, but I'm not sure that I really *know* it, if you know what I mean.
sure i know what you mean. i think i have trouble too sometimes.
> I don't think it's disrespectful to *ask* to hug. I would think it disrespectful to not ask.
i agree with you. i don't think it is disrespectful to ask for a hug.
but i do think that you know the answer is going to be 'no'.
and if you saw him going around hugging babblers all the time you would probably lose some respect for him...
(i know you aren't thinking he should go around hugging babblers all the time... but consistency etc)
> > but you will have noticed it is a triggering subject for some...
> Yeah, I don't really understand it.
i think it can go back to abuse stuff for a lot of people. people who have had their boundaries violated in the past can find the idea of pushing boundaries to be triggering for them...
> > and i guess it is about how when you got hammie you said you used to poke at him and try and make him do things...
> Wow, I can't believe you actually remembered that.
sure i do.
> > then you got attached to him and didn't do that to him anymore 'cause you didn't want to hurt him.
> I learned I shouldn't and can't force him to do things.
yeah. and maybe you figured that it wasn't so nice to poke at him either?
> > and sometimes i wonder if you try and poke at bob and make him do things...
> I can try, but I'm not sure I can make him do things.
yeah. he does seem to have fairly firm boundaries...
> I guess what you're saying is that if I really do love Dr. Bob, I would respect that he doesn't want a gift or maybe a hug.
yeah. i'm saying that if you really do love or care about someone (hammie, or dr bob, or me, or racer, or anyone really)...
then try not to poke em cause it can hurt.
but yeah... i've been known to poke.
i agree there is no harm in asking...
but i guess i'd wonder why you would ask when (i think you understand?) why the answer is probably going to be 'no'.
and i guess i think that if you understood why the answer would probably be 'no' then you wouldn't ask.
but really... that's probably my sh*t...
yeah no harm in asking...
though you might find IRL that you don't want to ask after all (online disinhibition effect and all)