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Re: Blocked for one week Honore

Posted by Jeff Smith on March 27, 2007, at 12:52:52

In reply to Re: Blocked for one week, posted by Honore on March 23, 2007, at 3:11:40

> I think we were a little hard on Jeff Smith. It's pretty tough to be depressed and disappointed and seeking some sort of affirmation of one's okayness-- as he was-- and to be hit with a lot of rebuffs about realities of the world.
>
> We could, in many instances, have been sympathetic and supportive (more overtly) rather than coming out of the stance that he needed to look at his "own actions"-- and that he was, to an extent that he maybe isn't aware of-- expecting more personal concern that you're just likely to get in the world, problems or not.
>
> We may, to be honest, have just as easily said that it is hurtful to be turned away, and not given the help you need-- all because you don't have the money, and maybe are angry at the lack of appropriate response. I feel fairly sure that Jeff didn't get very much help-- and that he has a right to be disappointed and angry.
>
> I've certainly been there-- and would have expected more kind and sympathetic responses. I'm not saying that, in the long run, what we said wasn't valid-- but just that there was an awful lot of it, and that he seemed to take it in pretty good humor-- It's easy to forget that there are a lot of not very good Ts out there-- and especially if you don't have money, you tend to run into them, and not have the resources to go elsewhere.
>
> So if he is a newbie, I wish it hadn't seemed necessary to block him, and I hope he comes back.
>
> He didn't really seem entitled to me-- any more than any of us is-- just in a less fortunate position, in a more economically stressful time. Being angry is certainly a big part of being depressed, for some people, and it didn't really bother me.
>
> I for one was struck by a sense that it would be hard for him to get really high quality professional help, and to overcome years of depression. So it was hard to think about his struggle. Maybe I, for one, could have been given him a bit more clear compassion, rather than a lecture on things I , after many years of therapy, am only finally ready to see about how I interact.
>
> It's hard to know how to be helpful, when someone really is in a tough situation. So I do hope it hasn't ended in his not wanting to keep coming here.
>
> Honore


Honore,
Thank you. For everything you said. I was somewhat overwhelmed by how understanding and sympathetic you were. Aside from my great friend of 17 years you/what you just said was the closest anyones ever come to understanding me and what Im experiencing and looking for and need and dont/didnt need.

You said: "I think we were a little hard on Jeff Smith. It's pretty tough to be depressed and disappointed and seeking some sort of affirmation of one's okayness-- as he was-- and to be hit with a lot of rebuffs about realities of the world.
We could, in many instances, have been sympathetic and supportive (more overtly) rather than coming out of the stance that he needed to look at his "own actions"-- and that he was, to an extent that he maybe isn't aware of-- expecting more personal concern that you're just likely to get in the world, problems or not.
We may, to be honest, have just as easily said that it is hurtful to be turned away, and not given the help you need-- all because you don't have the money, and maybe are angry at the lack of appropriate response. I feel fairly sure that Jeff didn't get very much help-- and that he has a right to be disappointed and angry."

I have to agree Honore. I think some people were too hard on me and couldve been more sympathetic. Dont get me wrong, as I do believe everyone (minus one person) are, Im sure, great people and had very good intentions to help me and I do greatly appreciate any advice or suggestions that shows someone was thinking about me.
Im not a person who looks for sympathy or attention from other people by complaining about my problems yet I must admit that I wouldve liked it if people were a bit more sympathetic:
None of the therapist I called or wrote to show any sympathy or empathy or normal human response... and thats including my own Nurse Practitioner who I saw recently and told her all Im going through and that I cant take it all and plan to kill myself when it gets bad enough... which I never tell her.
No, its really not just me imagining it all and Im not causing people to be the way they are do to my anger or the supposed "chip" on my shoulder: When I approach my therapist or any therapist I call (or anyone I may happen to ever come in contact with) Im really a genuinely nice and decent guy (unless theyre not that way to me). I may express my anger about others/my situation but Im still very nice to them and all I wish is the same in return yet I keep running into these cold, clinical detached people.

I feel as if Im on fire in the middle of a busy street and not only will nobody put me out but they also dont seem to care that Ill burn to death if none of them do. "Oh, youre burning to death? So sorry about that, but gotta go". or like "Oh, youre burning to death? Sorry, we dont take medicare so we cant put you out but go to this place... they have a puddle outside you can roll around in." Obviously thats a bit dramatic but the idea is the same (except they never actually even say "sorry").

You said: "I feel fairly sure that Jeff didn't get very much help-- and that he has a right to be disappointed and angry."

Thank you, again. : ) It feels excellent to be validated and understood by another. As Ive said, in the past I definitely have not been helped and as for currently maybe Ill make another post with all the details but in the meantime please trust me when I say that Ive been calling many places and continue to get rejected since they dont take the Medicare:
Yes, even including the NY Pres. Hospital which seemed like a mentally ill persons dream come true due to all the info on their web page.
It may seem hard to believe to some that I keep getting rejected but Im not exaggerating... I spoke to [XXXXX] who heard my whole story but said that in that Hospital I would get no psychiatric/mental help with Medicare.
[XXXXX] suggested I call [XXXXX] and that she would be able to refer me to one of their supposed options for help. I call [XXXXX], leave a message and she doesnt call back. The next day I call her but once again her voice mail picked up which had instructions to call [XXXXX].
I call [XXXXX] and she proceeds to tell me that [XXXXX] only run the Borderline Personality Disorder program/area/whatever its called or was and are not at all involved with outpatient anything else.
She did however refer my to [XXXXX] (spelling could be wrong) where I managed to get an appointment for an intake interview (whatever its called) in 6-8 weeks.

You said: "I've certainly been there-- and would have expected more kind and sympathetic responses. I'm not saying that, in the long run, what we said wasn't valid-- but just that there was an awful lot of it, and that he seemed to take it in pretty good humor-- It's easy to forget that there are a lot of not very good Ts out there-- and especially if you don't have money, you tend to run into them, and not have the resources to go elsewhere."

Thank you again for understanding.

You said: "So if he is a newbie, I wish it hadn't seemed necessary to block him, and I hope he comes back."

Well I was here briefly a few months ago so Im not sure if Im a newbie. As for the blocking: I do think its ridiculous to block someone for something they write in a babblemail (although I dont at all blame the Mod). And for that matter I find the whole blocking business to be more harmful than helpful... and I dont even see how blocking someone is helpful to anyone but Im sure there are reasons.
Anyway, Im back!! : ) (for now?)

You said: "He didn't really seem entitled to me-- any more than any of us is-- just in a less fortunate position, in a more economically stressful time. Being angry is certainly a big part of being depressed, for some people, and it didn't really bother me."

Once again thank you. I certainly dont think Im entitled to anything and I find it extremely offensive to be wrongly judged as such.
If a hypothetical person from anywhere was to say to me (just hypothetically speaking in my own words):
"[XXXXX]".

I guess Id most likely reply with:
"And how is it that I come across as "[XXXXX]"? In reality I never once claimed or intimated that Im entitled to anything. Wanting to get qualified mental help doesnt mean I think Im entitled to it... and complaining about the fact that I wish I could find one qualified therapist who actually cared more about helping me so I can avoid killing myself than they do about the fact that they cant fill that 50 minutes with lots of $$$ doesnt mean I think Im entitled to them: Ive explained enough times why I think they should show more compassion etc. to the people they claim to help."

If any hypothetical person were to then only say to that, I dont know, but something hypothetically like:
"[XXXXX]"

Id have to think about it, but I think my reply would be:
"And again you accuse me of [XXXXX] yet again you provide not even one valid (or even nonsensible for that matter) reason as to why you claim this. You show no quotes from anything Ive said which would prove I come across as "[XXXXX]". Its really a very simple thing to show since all of what Ive written is available for you to link me to. Why do you keep saying things that you cant back up with any valid reason that makes sense?"

After that I probably would not be interested in hearing any further criticism from any hypothetical person like that if they were to say those things and other things as well that were equally as judgemental and obnoxious. Hypothetically speaking.

You said: " Being angry is certainly a big part of being depressed, for some people, and it didn't really bother me."
TY Honore. : ) Its fuuny that people dont really have any problem suggesting to people experiencing major mental issues that they should stifle their anger. Nobody would ever suggest that someone else try to come across as less sad or less anxiety filled or less schizophrenic or whatnot in order to appease potential therapists.

When Pat wrote to me here: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070309/msgs/742425.html
"Jeff, i'd open up a bit to what is available to you and try just a teeny bit to get that chip off of your shoulder."
and "if you could work on acceptance, on your own, and mellow out (without the pot), i think you'll find that people will be much more receptive to trying to find you some help.

I replied with:
"Hey Pat,
Do you really think Ive had a "chip on my shoulder"? I mean obviously Im angry but its due to being "mentally ill" to begin with and then frustrated (with great reason) and etc, etc. and not just some bad or mean or confrontational attitude/ chip on my shoulder.
I do realize that anger turns people off but Im sure its understandable why Id be angry and Id hope that any therapist who heard my reasons for being angry would especially understand it, even if the therapist thought my reasons were invalid. Aside from this NYPGroup Ive not even expressed any anger to anyone who was in a position to try to find me help... and I didnt start out angry towards them, I only got angry after their reply.
Honestly Im not capable of working on (or more specifically achieving) acceptance (if you mean self acceptance) on my own or mellowing out. Ive gotten nowhere in 37 years and I believe I need help for these things. Im very mentally weak."

AND IF PAT YOURE READING THIS: then please realize that I absolutely realize that you were only helping me... but to tell someone (who's obviously already angry) to "get that chip off your shoulder" is only going to illicit more anger.

And finally you said: "I for one was struck by a sense that it would be hard for him to get really high quality professional help, and to overcome years of depression. So it was hard to think about his struggle. Maybe I, for one, could have been given him a bit more clear compassion, rather than a lecture on things I , after many years of therapy, am only finally ready to see about how I interact.
It's hard to know how to be helpful, when someone really is in a tough situation. So I do hope it hasn't ended in his not wanting to keep coming here.
Honore"

No, I just re-read your posts and you were fine.

Thanks Honore, you really helped me feel better.




















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Psycho-Babble Psychology | Framed

poster:Jeff Smith thread:742135
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070324/msgs/744662.html