Posted by Hombre on November 22, 2010, at 20:51:32
In reply to Re: morgan: How is St. John's Wort Working Out? » Hombre, posted by BetweenDreams81 on November 22, 2010, at 1:35:33
> * anxiety without the lithium is definitely an issue, but that is well under control
That's really interesting and promising. I wonder if anyone else gets this benefit from lithium orotate. Thanks for giving me something to look into more thoroughly.
> * worry is mostly situational, but it does play a part in the adding of stressors which trigger depression or anxiety or both. Which then can tailspin into hypomania where I obsess and become extremely irritableMy depression is like that. Very similar symptoms. I take Seroquel for the anxiety and insomnia, characterized by worrying spinning out of control and an inability to focus on one thing. My mind keeps jumping around and can't settle on one topic. The web is dangerous when I'm in this condition due to the non-linear format.
If I could do it again, I'd definitely treat Spleen and Kidneys with herbs first, both of which may lead to obsessive thoughts, worries, ruminating (esp. on the past), anxiety, fear, lack of ability to take action.
> * lack of motivation and depression, overall 'blah' mood, THAT hits the nail on the head...at least this seems to be the most dominant of my moods as of late, and the better part of the past 3 months (I'm not really in a depression, just very "bored" is the best way I can describe it)
Yeah, apathy and boredom can be there without sad/depressed mood. It's hard to separate them, but they are somewhat distinct. I still get this from time to time, and treating the Kidneys is the best method I've tried so far. Even single-herb adaptogens aren't specific enough to target this symptom cluster.
> * lack of sleep never struck me as an issue until I realized one day that I could not recall the last time in 2-3 years when I have gone to bed regularly at a "decent" hour (ex: it is currently 1:45 AM lol, and this is very typical)
I had this sort of insomnia for over a decade. I thought I'd never get to bed early or before 1or 2am. I think my meds do a good job of handling this, so I wont complain.
I once had my pulse taken by a CM doc in Asia and he asked me if I stayed up late. He was right, and he could tell because my liver was showing some symptoms. 11pm-1am is the time when the they say the qi is in the liver. This is an important time because this is when your liver does the majority of its detox.
I can't say for sure whether or not this is true, but I can say the quality of sleep is much better if I can fall asleep before 11. In fact, I shoot for this every night by taking my meds at 9pm. I feel more refreshed in the morning this way.
> Do you feel tired after you eat? Does your diet seem to affect your energy and mood?
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> * hmmm, tired? If I eat heavy foods, yes. Otherwise, I don't really notice much difference in energy level, niether a lack nor a gain.
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> * When I eat sushi I feel great...clean fresh energy, and mentall sharper as well. I really wish the fish oil caps did the same thing for me! I may need to take a less processed form though? Currently taking 4 Barlean's Fish Oil caps (orange flavor), total: 4000mg, 1440mg EPA, 960mg DHA
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> * I do notice certain foods adversely affecting me, particularly dairy, heavy starches and caffeine. Interestingly enough, when I was curious about the blood type diet (I'm A-), it suggested eating mostly vegetables and fruits, plant based diet and to limit animal protein intake, even fishI think this *may* mean that your Spleen is not too weak. Heavy, sticky foods that don't digest will cause stagnation, heat, and a heavy, lazy/tired feeling.
For me, I find I have to eat lots of protein in order to feel well. There are sound nutritional reasons for this, primarily the fact that I exercise a lot, and amino acids are the building blocks of most of your hormones and enzymes. Fat, too.
In fact, I do well on a diet of meat, fish, and some veggies with a smaller amount of complex carbs. I only eat brown+red rice and wholewheat bread. I'm sure you know about this stuff, just thinking out loud. Diet is so crucial, because without the basic physical energy, emotional energy and mental energy cannot be supported.
According to Chinese medicine and also energy management theories from Western sources, emotional, mental and even spiritual energy are just different states or frequencies of energy. Energy can transform from gross/material to more refined states of energy, and back again. That's why the condition of the body can never be excluded when considering mental disorders, but at the same time, your mind and spirit can affect your health as well.
The highest form of medicine (so they say) is dealing directly with the spirit, or shen. Mental disorders are ultimately disorders of the shen/spirit, housed in the Heart. Unfortunately, this aspect of healing is slowly being eliminated, or worse, demonized as archaic and unscientific. Whatever. It's only in the past decade that they've discovered that the brain can regrow. There are obviously tons of things that science has yet to understand, if it ever will.
> The thing with anxiety, at least from my experience, is that it is both physical and psychological. My mind can really psyche me out, but if I push past the initial uneasiness I almost always feel better having done whatever it is I wanted/needed to get done. Getting into the habit of confronting my fears is probably what I need to do more than anything.
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> * The only time I feel the anxiety creep in at the moment is when I have to play the "salesperson" and my business requires a bit of that to get going...and I agree 100%, that the initial fear is usually put to rest once it is confronted and defeated...it's basically just making yourself grow and jump outside the box, but unless that happens the fear rules and can even develop into a phobia if not kept in check IMO. I do need to work on this a bit more myself. I'll be forced to do it anyway 6 weeks from now when I return to Florida for my busiest season! eeps!That gives you time to try some new things, and I think there is every reason to expect and shoot for a more stable, comfortable base from which to work from. I just want to stress that this is possible, eventually. I really hope you will feel better about your busy season so you can continue to be successful in your business. I sort of envy where you're at in your career :)
> * I feel like you just described me to a T! I absolutely fall into the "parasympathetic" mold!
> * I like the idea of the Golden Cabinet Kidney Pills...Can it be taken simultaneously with the Bu Zhong Yi Qi Wan? This would take care of tonifying the liver, which for what ever reason, I keep coming back to. I feel like there is a bit of stagnant energy...which represents dampness, is that right? or am I confusing it with something else? and would that also relate back to spleen? Liver/spleen are a yin/yang pair, so tonifying the liver would help the spleen as well...did I get that right?
The two formulas can be taken together. The only thing to watch out for is too much heat from the Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan. If you feel too stimulated, or hot and thirsty, switch to Liu Wei Di Huang Wan. I don't think BZYQW causes much heat. I think it might have a few herbs to clear heat.
BZYQW works mostly on the "upper burner", a sort of made-up "organ" that refers to metabolic function in the upper third of the body. JGSQW works on the lower burner. You'll know it's working when you start to feel a comfortable, warm sensation in your lower abdomen or lumbar area. This area is key for your overall energy. If it gets too "cold", you get that apathy and other symptoms, like weakness in the lower back and joints in the legs. When the "fire" is just right, you feel comfortable, warm, and have more willpower. I know it sounds strange, but they specifically associate willpower with the kidneys. This will also affect memory.
Liver stagnation is almost always involved with mental disorders. When a person gets upset or frustrated, and cannot express this constructively, liver qi stagnation will occur. One way to express this is to say that the liver is involved in detoxing and neutralizing hormones. If the liver is not functioning optimally, stress hormones (glucocorticoids) and sex hormones (estrogen, ...) may not be broken down efficiently, hence liver stagnation can lead to irritability, anger, and a full/stuffy sensation in the ribs/chest area, or even a lump in the throat.
When the liver becomes stagnant, heat can build up. The stomach and spleen will often be affected, messing up digestion and weakening these organs' ability to transform food into blood and energy, and to transform and transport "fluids", leading to dampness, which will sort of muck up the works, causing dullness, apathy, etc.
I know it all sounds too simple, but the analogies are consistent with the treatments, and if the treatments didn't work, the whole model would have collapsed and never have survived this long. Herbs are classified in basic ways, according to what they do in the body. Their actions are well known, and the formulas have been time-tested to be effective, and to take advantage of natural synergies between herbs. I wish we could only say the same for meds and med combos. Mixing herbs is a fine art, very difficult. Harder than gourmet cooking. Mixing meds is...primitive, at best.
BZYQW tonifies the Spleen and assist the liver in upholding the "upright qi", basically that upbearing, structural energy I talked about. It's weird, but twice I've taken the formula and noticed that I felt like standing up really straight, which is hard for someone who has slouched all his life and still struggles to correct that. It's amazing how one's energy and mood are affected when the heart and lungs have ample room to function, and the blood vessels in the neck are not kinked from muscle tension and bad posture. Your mileage may vary, of course.> * Well noted! How long do you give something a try before changing it up? Instinct says to stick with herbals for at least 6 weeks to get them well established in the system. Do you ever take them more often than 3x per day to get started? Say 5x/day for the first 3-4 days? Or, just more tea pills and just 3x/day?
It's hard to say, because the longer you've been ill/had these negative patterns, the longer it'll take to nudge things back to a balanced state. Lifestyle is obviously a huge factor. Maybe consider cutting back on "cold" foods, such as raw fruits and veggies, ice cream, ice water, stuff like that. They force your body to use energy to digest and warm up. You need every ounce of energy to maintain your mood.
That said, maybe a month or longer to feel a significant change. I don't know if you'd want to overdo the herbs too much, maybe up to 1.5 - 2x MAX per dose. Three times a day is probably the max. Taking tonic herbs thirty minutes before meals will help too. On an empty stomach is best, with warm water or broth.
> * Yes! Thank you! You are insightful as always, and thoughtful beyond measure for being so thorough! I really appreciate it!
It's my pleasure. And thanks for your advice and suggestions too. I hope I didn't ramble too much, but it helps me to put these ideas into words, because my experience is changing all the time as I continue to use and experiment with herbs. Nothing I say is more than the opinion of a hobbyist, so keep that in mind...
poster:Hombre
thread:966033
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20100930/msgs/971039.html