Posted by JLx on November 14, 2004, at 19:52:30
In reply to Re: How much TMG to take? And how 'bout MSM too? » JLx, posted by KaraS on November 14, 2004, at 19:36:51
> > > > > > You can substitute trimethylglycine plus B12 for the SAMe. They're precursors and some (including Larry) consider this to be a more efficient way to go as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you know what the monthly cost of this would be?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's quite a bit cheaper than SAM-e. I need to find Larry's old posts to see about the dosage range of TMG + B12 he recommends so I could give you some accurate figures. You might need to add in folate to balance the B12 as well. SAM-e works for some people in varrying dosages - anywhere from 200-1600 mg. a day - so your cost would vary considerably based on dosage required.
> > > >
> > > > I'll do a little searching for those old posts later and get back to you on this (assuming that Larry or someone else doesn't get to it first).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > K
> > > >
> > >
> > > Here's one thread from a year ago: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031104/msgs/278139.html There's a lot of info in Larry's posts there. DSCH also makes an important note, I think, that it was magnesium that "turned on" TMG for him.
> > >
> > > TMG is availble through Beyond a Century in bulk form, so inexpensive that way. It's tolerable tasting dissolved in water.
> > >
> > > JL
> >
> > I was reading over that old thread...so glad to have this documentation sometimes! I see I was taking about 800 mg of TMG 3 times a day. I didn't realize it was so much and though I have been taking it again lately, not that much. I was feeling loads better in those days too.
> >
> > I have noticed that taking the TMG feels different since I've been taking MSM, but again maybe I'm not taking enough. What exactly is the relation to TMG and MSM, other than that they are methyl donors? I usually take 1-2,000 mg of MSM, though I've been slacking off lately. Hmm...maybe this is why I feel more crappy.
> >
> > This board is so helpful. :)
> >
> > "Research has found that TMG is converted into SAM in the body. TMG is less expensive than SAM.
> > Dosage: 3,000 milligrams a day, followed by a maintenance dose of 1,000 milligrams a day for up to three weeks." http://www.holistic-online.com/Remedies/Depression/dep_nutrition2.htm#TMG
> >
> > I'm reading "Optimum Nutrition for the Mind" and Patrick Holford recommends TMG 600-2000 mg daily on an empty stomach or with fruit.
> >
> > JL
>
>
> Oops. I posted my quick summary of TMG cost and dosage before I saw this post. Looks like the lower end of the 1-8 grams is more in line with other recommendations.
>
> I hadn't read that you have tried this either before answering your previous post. Sometimes it is hard to discern what is making us feel better or worse. I have been slacking off on taking my supplements as well. I was particularly bad about taking the B's. I had a really rough couple of days recently and I wouldn't be surprised if this had something to do with it. Hard to separate things out and also hard to figure out what is just a normal dip. Bad moods happen to everone. Anyway, I made some big changes as a result and I do feel much better now. Long way to go however but way better than those few days from hell.
>
> Dunno about the MSM. I was taking 1000 mg./day and I didn't seem to notice anything good or bad from it physically or mentally. I have arthritis in one of my fingers and I was taking it mostly for that purpose. Ironically, now that I'm no longer taking the MSM, my finger seems fine. The only difference is that I've added the magnesium to my daily routine. Does that make any sense?
>
> Yeah, this board really is great (as well several other boards on this site). I've learned so much and gotten so much support. Prior to this site and the Internet in general, I was just swinging in the dark.
>
> KaraI started taking MSM after my geriatric dog did so well on a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM formula. I have aches and pains and had osteoarthritis in my back per x-ray way back nearly 20 years ago so I can only imagine what it might look like now. Glucosamine is actually supposed to prevent further degradation in joints, so I wish I were more diligent about taking it. Sometimes I just get sick of taking all this stuff, especially when I'm eating irregularly as I've been -- unless I can see a definite benefit like I do with magnesium. MSM seemed to help my mood, which is an indication of being undermethylated I suppose. I think the TMG may be more powerful though for that.
I think the magnesium could be helping your finger. It generally is relaxing and also opens capillaries. Perhaps you're getting more blood flow.
Yes, it's hard to discern "normal" bad moods from effects of supplements or other anti-depressant efforts like exercise. It's usually in hindsight where I think, "Oh, yeah, I guess that was helping more than I thought at the time".
I did feel better last fall than I do this year so now that I know I was taking a lot more TMG then, I'm going to do that again and hope for the best.
Holistic online, says: SAM is involved in the methylation of monoamines, neurotransmitters, and phospholipids such as phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylserine. http://www.holistic-online.com/Remedies/Depression/dep_nutrition2.htm
Maybe, since it works more generally like that rather than just boosting one thing, TMG will work for you as Larry suggested.
JL
poster:JLx
thread:415835
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041108/msgs/415983.html