Posted by karaS on September 26, 2004, at 18:00:46
In reply to Re: TSH levels and thyroid illness? » karaS, posted by raybakes on September 26, 2004, at 5:00:37
> >
> > I was wondering if you might have some insight >into a condition that two different people have >brought up to me recently. It relates to >thyroid problems. Both people have high TSh >levels and their doctors have told them that >they are hypothyroid and yet their symptoms are >more like those of people who are hyperthyroid. >One of these people is Simus who has posted on >this thread quite a bit and has gone into more >detail on her situation in those posts. The >other is my neighbor. She had been taking Armour >Thyroid but discontinued it a few months ago. >She feels great. She has lots of energy, her >concentration is fine and she is always hot when >I'm cold. If anything she acts hyper, not >hypo. She got a TSH and some other tests >recently and her level was 21. As opposed to >Simus, she tested positive for Hashimotos. Why >isn't she feeling awful with a TSH level that >high? She and Simus are both wondering if their >problem might have more to do with their >pituitary (although I don't see how that could >be given the thyroid antibodies in my neighbor's >case). Do you have any insights here? If so, >they'd be greatly appreciated.
>
> Just goes to show that people can't be slotted into specific thyroid diseases all the time!Oops, I realized that I haven't answered this one yet but first I want to thank you so much for all of this really valuable information and for going to so much trouble to get it!!! You are such a wonderful addition to this board. I particularly enjoy reading the posts between you and Larry. Much of it is over my head by I find it fascinating nonetheless.
> Looked up a few things and quite a few articles contradict, so I think there's a lot of confusion amongst the medical community too!
Simus found that to be the case as well when she tried to research the issue.
> Your neighbour could be borderline hashimoto's because the early stages of hashimoto's a lot of the thyroid hormones are normal. Also in the early stages of hashimoto's stress hormones are increased, so as long as the adrenals hold out, energy levels might be OK for a while. Looking at great smokies thyroid test, there are levels of thyroid antibodies that are within the normal range - does your neighbour know her levels?My neighbor has had thyroid problems for many years now. She probably had Hashimoto's for a long time as well. She does know her antibody levels but I don't have them handy. Given that she's had that issue for a long time, could it still be possible that the adrenals are overcompensating and that's why she has symptoms of hyper rather than hypothyroid (especially since she went off of her thyroid hormone about 4 months ago after taking it for many years)? I feel bad for her and Simus because they don't know how they should be treating this. They both feel on a gut level that they shouldn't be taking the thyroid hormones that their doctors are telling them to take.
> TSH regulation in the pituitary, seems to be affected by GABA and dopamine (and so P5P), prolactin, zinc, and fluoride. I'm sure there's others too! Zinc appears to be important in the synthesis and degradation of TSH, GABA and dopamine control the nervous system's regulation of TSH. Prolactin affects (not sure if raises or lowers) TSH, and prolactin is raised by stress and insulin. (A TSH secreting tumour also raises TSH but it appears to be extemely rare - dopamine and GABA would be very important in this case).So theoretically if one were taking a dopaminergic antidepressant, then that could increase TSH level? Also, you seem to be saying that stress could raise TSH level? If those are both true, then perhaps many people are being diagnosed as hypothyroid who may not really be. The implications are enormous if I'm interpreting this all correctly.
> Estogen is important too, as it regulates the levels of thyroid binding globulin - too much estrogen can bind too much free T4, and upset the feedback to the hypothalamus/pituitary.It really is much more complicated than just looking at a TSH level or even a panel of various thyroid levels, isn't it?
> TSH uses a messenger called cAMP (related to ATP) to pass it's message onto the thyroid. cAMP can be raised by coffee, tea and chocolate. Insulin lowers cAMP, so insulin resistance and blood sugar problems, may make TSH work inefficently, and so require more of it to stimulate the thyroid.The number of factors affecting this feedback loop is staggering!
>
> Thyroid peroxidase makes hydrogen peroxide to oxidise iodine for thyroxine. Excessive hydrogen peroxide has to be mopped up to prevent it damaging the thyroid, so anti-oxidants, particularly glutathione, are needed. It seems, low glutathione for any extended period of time, can lead to the initiation or exacerbation of hashimoto's - I'm deficient in glutathione as the 'genovations' detox profile showed I had a 'null' glutathione gene.Hmmmm. My neighbor did have a high thyroid peroxidase level...
I'd love to get the kind of testing you've had done. My guess is that I would discover something similar about myself and genetic deficiency(s).
> http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:mWf8awJVf2oJ:www.doctorphyto.com/Library/Health_Conditions/hypothyroidism.htm+camp+tsh&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
>
> http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/128/2/1136
>
> Not sure I've kept to any straight answers...I'll look at some of Simus' replies later..Yeah, ya did!
> Ray
>I'm going to print this message out now for my neighbor. (I'll bet that Simus will be reading this and getting back to you also when she has a chance.)
Take care,
Kara
poster:karaS
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040901/msgs/395412.html