Posted by Larry Hoover on October 8, 2003, at 8:34:54
In reply to Re: Pain Cox2 inhibitor » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on October 5, 2003, at 12:51:56
> > I don't know what the political climate is like, in Oz, with respect to pain treatment. Up here, there are two camps.....one, the most common, where they pat you on the head, and teach you how to tune out the pain (as if), or the other, where doctors actually treat you with adequate analgesia, and put their licenses and livelihood on the line.....
> >
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> This pain clinic does both I gather as I phoned them and had a chat...they treat with homeopathic too..not that I think that will work..and morphine..but I don't want to go that way. I just want it fixed!..and that was a question too..I think it went /do you consider that you just haven't got the appropriate medical treatment and yoy'll be fixed 100% when you do...I mean hello, YES..but then that is open to misinterpretation...That question contains two completely distinct and independent considerations. If it was posed to you in the way you describe, then it is meaningless (as an assessment), and potentially disastrous (if they interpret your reply as belief in "magical treatment/response"). I studied psychometrics (I have a degree in psychology), and that's a bad question.
> and I always hate how those questionnaires ask you everything 3 times over in a slightly reworded way, sigh.
That's to tease out nuances in your thinking, and also measures your tendency to be deceptive or attempts to project a particular, but inaccurate, measure of your distress (like drug-seeking).
> > I think I'd be avoiding nitrates, myself.
>
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> Me too, lol. Do you have any ideas on why NITRATES could induce the pain?(reproducibly)..especially if it is an infection of some kind?If I recall correctly, they're irritants. The infection (if that's what it is) leads to inflammation and changes in the sensitivity of the nerve to noxious stimuli, like putting the nerve on a hair-trigger. Add a little nitrate, and you're over the sensitivity threshold.
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> >
> > > >
> > > > > so its kinda all linked in here Lar.
> > > >
> > > > I'm seeing that.
> > > >
> > > > > >Or, you could just use turmeric. It has a potent COX inhibitor in it.
> I've tried a couple of times. The first time I thougt I felt an improvement..the next time nothing.
> Again in the past week, I tried once at noon but didn't workEverybody's different.
> 3Pm ended up painting teeeth with clove oil again..only dulled pain, couldn't concentrate even on reading forums
> 7PM.. tried panadol
> 8.30PM Pain gone ...wierd..as that never used to work on migraines etc.
Acetominophen/paracetamol can be used daily.> I'm really confused about this Prostaglandin, COX, NOX stuff. Did a heap of reading but I can't interpret it.
I'll see if I can't cut through the mystery.
Polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) serve two purposes, physiologically. The first is structural; they keep membranes more fluid, and enhance receptor function on a purely mechanical level. The second is chemical; they're the raw materials for a host of signalling chemicals.
Some of those signalling chemicals are: leukotrienes, prostaglandins, eicosanoids, anandamide, interleukins....
The PUFAs in question, all have unsaturated (double-bonded) carbons at every third position. A double-bond is reactive, and if you react two such bonds that are three carbons apart, you can form a six-carbon ring. Now that's something that carbon likes to do, as it accomodates the bonding characteristics of carbon quite nicely.
One of the ways that these rings can form is via enzymatic reactions mediated by COX enzymes. COX stands for cyclo-oxygenase (cyclo describes the ring structure that is formed, oxygenase means the reaction proceeds via oxidation). In case there wasn't enough terminolgy floating around, COX has another name, prostaglandin endoperoxide synthase.
We have not figured out exactly why these ring structures formed from PUFAs have the signalling capacity that they do, but depending on whether the raw material (the PUFA) was an omega-3 or an omega-6, or was a twenty carbon chain, or a twenty-two, and so on, the bits that dangle away from the ring determine the physiological signal that the prostaglandin/eicosanoid/leukotriene, etc. actually carries. We can make some generalizations, like the omega-6 20-carbon PUFA arichidonic acid forms inflammatory prostaglandins, whereas the omega-3 22-carbon PUFA docosahexaenoic acid forms anti-inflammatory prostaglandins, but much of the "meaning" of these ring structures has yet to be determined.
The reason dietary manipulation of omega-6/omega-3 ratios can have a profound effect on inflammation flows from the mechanism of the synthesis of prostaglandins. When the PUFAs are part of a membrane (the physical/structural role I mentioned earlier), they are bound to a phosphate group, forming a phospholipid. In the presence of an activating signal, an enzyme (phospholipase) cleaves off one of the PUFAs, which immediately reacts with COX to form a prostaglandin, which then transmits the signal to other cells. If the PUFA that cleaves away from the phospholipid is arichidonic acid (omega-6), the signal is inflammatory. If it cleaves docosahexaenoic acid (omega-3), the signal is anti-inflammatory. Whichever "flavour" of signal dominates the local biochemistry will determine the ultimate physiological response to the initial trigger. The likelihood that the prostaglandins which are formed are "good" or "bad" is purely statistical. If your diet is high in omega-3s relative to omega-6s, the signal will tend to be good.
The term NOX, I'm not sure how it applies here. Usually written NOx, it represents the various oxides of nitrogen (where x is an integer, but there is also N2O5 to consider). NO (nitric oxide) is a potent oxidizer, and has powerful signalling capacity as well. If you're under oxidative stress (more oxidizers than antioxidants), NO can react with hydrogen peroxide to form peroxynitrite, which is hugely damaging. For more on peroxynitrite, you might want to read:
http://molecular.biosciences.wsu.edu/Faculty/pall/pall_cfs.htm
http://molecular.biosciences.wsu.edu/Faculty/pall/pall_fibro.htm> I have a heap of links and it was raised by someone of a thyroid forum too...if you're interested I'll post it up?..and they also appear to be using and perhaps linking niacinamide, or preferably NADH, fish oil, Nox, and cox inhibitors, PG's?(I think).
It's all linked, absolutely. The connection is oxidative stress.
> Is tea a cox inhibitor?or only green tea?..and I've been drinking both lately, so perhaps that is why tumeric does make a diff sometimes and not at other times..depends on if I'm already getting whatever in my diet at that time?
I can't tell you why turmeric would work sometimes and not others, unless it's a dose issue. Perhaps turmeric and e.g. paracetamol might be a useful combination?
> > Besides, I honour the female attributes within me. (Maybe that's what you sensed about me?)
>
> lesson learned..don't reply at 3AM with no sleep on forums one can't edit later..except I keep forgetting.
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> OK, will try to answer better. I think I sensed someone who seemed caring and supportive but also who seemed to be searching for an answer/support themselves as well?..and perhaps someone who may possibly identify with similar symptoms/reactions in some cases.You left out intuitive, but yes.... :-)
> Anyone can email me via that thyroid forum..just click on my name?
>
> Hugs, JanI haven't spent much time there yet. Don't be surprised if you get email from me, eh?
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:259730
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/266685.html