Posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 7:11:04
In reply to Re: bleauberry, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:05:43
> >But you already know what is going on.
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> Except that we don't actually know.We do actually know. Jereon has had a positive test in the past, did not do successful treatment for it, and has consistent symptoms. He also responded in consistent manner to attempted treatment. We DO know. The complexity you mention is true but is also a common thing that gets in the way of true healing - armchair quarterbacking doesn't produce great results usually.
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> >The test won't tell you anything you don't already know.
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> It shifts the probability away from Lyme, and hence towards something else. Lyme isn't as common in these parts of Europe as is it in the US.There is absolutely NO WAY of knowing that. I disagree with it. Lyme is epidemic everywhere ticks and mice exist. Estimates are that for every 1 person correctly diagnosed, there are 9 who got a wrong diagnosis of depression, anxiety, fibromyalgia, or chronic fatigues syndrome.
>J believed he might have had an exposure many years ago. It seems improbable that antibodies would not have been produced by now, if it was still present.
This demonstrates a common lack of knowledge of the lyme, intricate mechanisms of the infection syndromes, and the primary difficulty in diagnosing lyme with blood tests - the organisms are genius, thousands of genes, thousands of years - the first thing that happens upon puncturing the skin is they inject an enzyme that confuses the immune system - it turns off the antibody mechanism - the reason antibody tests are generally unreliable in lyme. The best way to make a test accurate is to take an antibiotic for 2 weeks, then stop, then test. At that point, if the bacteria exist, some of them have died - their body parts and debris NOW cause antibodies that can be detected. The immune system was confused and couldn't do that. Meds could. But without the antibiotic, nope, not likely to have any antibodies. That is how lyme is so freaking sly.
>Also, physical symptoms would be expected.
Jeroen does. If you check the list of symptoms for DSM depression, most of them are the symptoms as Lyme also...think about that....>
> In terms of latent infection, other agents such as Toxoplasma are far more common in Europe. Although usually asymptomatic, possible links between Toxoplasma and mental health are interesting and worthy of further investigation.Pathogenic microbial of all kinds are very suspect in my world of being direct contributors to psychiatric presentations. That is why I subscribe to a blanket shotgun approach of antimicrobial, antitoxin and anti inflammation. A tick can carry more than half a dozen different bacteria, parasites and virus. all of them make you sick, not just one of them. They also weaken the immune system so that otherwise good bugs now become pathogenic. The symptoms are almost universally psychiatric, in addition to clusters of other symptoms.
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> Interestingly, doxycycline is one of the antibiotics with anti-toxoplasma activity. Although chronic latent infection is very hard to eradicate.This is where some of the herbs come in to play. They offer some mechanisms that meds just do not. Japaneses Knotweed for example is a king. This is also why treatment often includes 3 antibiotics at a time, sometimes up to 6, because the bacteria can shift from one form to another - cystic for example - biofilm for example - wide spectrum coverage is required. We have cell wall bacteria. We have cell wall deficient bacteria. Some live inside our red blood cells with no shape, basically just blobs. There is no way to accurately pinpoint what is going on because available testing is so inadequate.
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> >As you know, the Herxing can be vicious and terrifying.I have experienced what you described and it is indeed scary. It is a very common feature of Herxing.
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> I think it's important to be cautious RE assumptions that we have experienced what others have experienced, especially when it's not clear what they have experienced.Yeah me too. I feel that way. To me though it is pretty clear. If you had been on my journey, it would likely be clear to you too. The things I have learned are way different than the things you have learned. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. Maybe it's just instinct. Don't know. In any case, there isn't much mystery if you ask me.
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> Although the term Herxheimer reaction is now used by some people to describe almost anything that happens after taking an antibiotic, I think this is confusing. I don't think it's fair to assume that panic symptoms in the absence of typical physical symptoms such as fever represent a Herxheimer reaction (endotoxin release syndrome).This is totally false. The entire paragraph is false. As an example, one patient went to a doctor complaining of nausea. Months later, no progress. No diagnosis. Nobody could figure it out. The guy had no other symptoms. Through questioning in his history it became evident that he did have a tick bite a year ago and never had any trouble from it. On a suspicion they treated him with an antibiotic. He Herxed like hell and then when he came out of it he was totally cured. There are literally millions of stories similar to that pattern. Mine included.
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> Studies have reported that individuals diagnosed with schizophrenia, compared to controls, have a higher prevalence of antibodies to Toxoplasma. Although this is an association rather than proof, I do think it's very interesting, especially since Toxoplasma is so prevalent in cats here.This is, in my opinion, where American medical science goes off the rails and does a disservice to the patient. Notice how everybody seems to rely on "studies". As if these studies were somehow miracles or bibles. They aren't. They give us little piecers of puzzles. A better science, in opinion, is to adopt some of the Eastern medicinal approach to employing substances that work for specific symptoms regardless of whether we know how they work or what studies have been done. in other words, if it works, use it. We don't do that in America. It's almost as if we really don't care if something works or not, but we sure as heck have to know how it works, every detail of its mechanisms, armchair quarterbacking on steroids. That generally has not gotten a lot of psych patients into a better place. This site has ample proof of that anecdotal claim.
poster:bleauberry
thread:1097287
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20180212/msgs/1097594.html