Posted by SLS on December 28, 2012, at 18:28:02
In reply to Re: High fat diet -) inflammation -) depression, posted by Trotter on December 28, 2012, at 15:47:59
> > > > This very large study was published this week on the association of inflammation and psychological stress: http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1485898
> > > Yes, it is my understanding that chronic low grade inflammation, such as caused by endotoxemia, causes depression.
> > Am I failing to find indications of causation or directionality in this study?
> >
> > I don't understand why whenever depression is associated with a biological finding, there is an immediate conclusion drawn that the observed biological phenomenon must be the cause of that depression. I sometimes think that authors like to see their names in lights.
> Yes, they did not prove cause and effect in this particular study, only that a link exists.Yeah, well...
> However there is a lot of cause and effect evidence to show that inflammation causes depression.
Instead of throwing a URL at me, perhaps you can summarize this evidence as you understand it? I still have a difficult time reading stuff.
> I have presented some of that evidence to you already.
Maybe I'll go back and take a look. My problem is that I have not seen a convincing demonstration that inflammation causes Major Depressive Disorder (MDD), only an associative link for which directionality is ambiguous. How do we know when the true onset of the MDD disorder begins? There might be a convergence in time of separate processes. Inflammation might be a prosyndromal consequence of the onset of disease, so it would show up before the depressive symptoms would.
Can immune activation and inflammatory processes cause someone feel depressed? Perhaps. After all, interferon certainly does. However, no one has produced evidence that interferon causes MDD. Like I said, I think it possible that once induced, MDD and the inflammatory reaction to that pathology converge and "feed on each other", producing a positive feedback loop. Inflammation by itself might not be the inducer.
I don't know. I just haven't seen what I would call proof that inflammation leads to Axis I disorders. If you really want to see something interesting, perform a Medline search on schizophrenia and inflammation and tell me what you come up with.
> You seem to be married to your belief that inflammation is caued by depression and not the other way round.
I am married to my feeble intellect and relative ignorance.
No big deal. The idea isn't to prove whether I am right or wrong. It is simply to challenge an idea that might influence people to seek ineffective treatments if that idea is wrong.
I have no idea what you suffer from. I look forward to you confirming for yourself that your illness is indeed MDD, and how your current belief system helps you to make treatment decisions.
- Scott
Some see things as they are and ask why.
I dream of things that never were and ask why not.- George Bernard Shaw
poster:SLS
thread:1033371
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121217/msgs/1034099.html