Posted by yxibow on February 18, 2006, at 1:56:03
In reply to Re: Secobarbitural Sodium! » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on February 17, 2006, at 14:56:23
> Hi
>
> >Severe panick attacks can also be solved by a 1mg or more of Xanax, which is also fast acting and safer, but not as cheap.
>
> No, because barbiturates would only be suitable for patients who didn't repond well to benzodiazepines.
>
> >I was putting a bit of this humour in the UK-US barbiturate argument. I assure you, they're not used as much here.
>
> This isn't a UK-US argument. The barbiturates are almost never prescribed in the UK. The vast majority of UK pdocs will never have prescribed a barbiturate. I don't understand why you are under the impression than barbiturates are used more frequently in the UK, I very much doubt it. Sedative (eg. benzo) use is strongly discouraged in the UK. The benzodiazepines are treated with disdain here.........most docs probably don't even know that the barbiturates are still available. ]I dont know, because it just seemed that there was a sense of blase between barbiturates and benzodiazepines so I figured it was part and parcel of the NHS' arsenal. And I remember you mentioning now that the benzodiazepines are treated with disdain which is unfortunate because klonopin has allowed plenty a shutin to leave their house due to a variety of phobic and panic disorders.
>
> >Yes, they're all presugery prep agents with the exception of Halcion, here, or conscious sedation, which has been banned most places.
>
> Midazolam can be taken orally as a sleep aid. It is used in this manner in some countries.Versed as a sleep aid ? I think it would be very very limited in the US.
>
> > I know that certain epileptic disorders are very hard to control.. and you've hit the point right square that barbiturates are just plain cheap
>
> Price doesn't come into it RE barbiturates in the UK. Phenobarbital is never used as a first line treatment for epilepsy in the UK. I was referring to developing countries when I mentioned the price of pheno.Well actually surprisingly Dr. Reddy's of India has applied for electronic NDAs in the US of all places for cheap benzodiazepines so you can bet that they are even cheaper as dirt in their home territory.
>
> >But benzodiazepines here aren't all that much more expensive. Trust me, a **** load of Valium is $20.
>
> Phenobarbital is not the same as the barbiturate hypnotics (eg. Seconal), the anticonvulsant dose is less than the sedative dose. Other barbiturates are only anticonvulsant at doses which produce substantial sedation. Pheno's anticonvulsant efficacy may not be related to potentiation of GABAergic neurotransmission. Pheno has always been considered to be effective in the long term treatment of epilepsy, the same cannot be said of benzodiazepines, which are most suitable for emergency treatment of prolonged seizures. In some patients, clonazepam can be effective in the long term treatment of epilepsy, but tolerance develops in many.Tolerance can and has developed to many barbiturates too, but I'm not arguing the unique use of it in this arena.
>
> >Very small. A script for 0.5 Xanax is equally effective.
>
> No, because Seconal would only be prescribed if Xanax didn't work!good, good :)
>
> >even if we disagree on the NHS use of barbs :)
>
> I never once mentioned the NHS! Barbiturates are very rarely used by NHS doctors.Well it was an assumption because you do seem rather relaxed about the use of Barbiturates, on a forum, that like it or not, have people who have serious psychiatric disorders, no fault of their own. It would be horrifying if they managed to get barbiturates for sleep from some offshore pharmacy.
>
> >........and if she had a barbiturate in her hands instead of Xanax..... oh, never mind.
>
> I'm sorry to hear that J.
>
> >Soma is a barb cousin
>
> Carisoprodol and meprobamate are chemically unrelated to the barbiturates.Actually there is a distant relation between Miltown, felbamate, and barbiturates if not in structure but in action. My conservative prescribing psychopharmacologist wouldn't have used the term lightly otherwise, and I would have my happy back pill (humour).
"Barbiturate-Like Actions of the Propanediol
Felbamate and Meprobamate"
JPET 280:1383–1391, 1997
Anyhow, dear Eddy, I'm bantering with you, no real arguments here.Tidings
Jay :)
poster:yxibow
thread:609056
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060212/msgs/610790.html