Posted by Spotcheck on December 19, 2004, at 22:22:07
In reply to Re: Nardil Veteran » Spotcheck, posted by KaraS on December 19, 2004, at 19:03:20
> > > Has this medication increased or decreased brain fog? (My brain may be ADHD prone - though I've never been diagnosed - so this answer is very important to me.)
> > Yes, I have discovered that my short term memory is all but gone. It used to be outstanding and is critical for humans to function well in this world.>That happens with age anyway. How can you be sure it's the Nardil (or maybe I should say how can you know how much of the result can be attributed to each factor) if it's over a period of 26 years?
Because while my pathological anxiety and depression were allievated for the most part, it was the first side-effect I noticed in 1978.
> > > Has this medication given you more energy and motivation or has it mostly been anxiolytic and/or mood lifting?
> > All of the above, which is reason I stick with it.
> It's amazing to me that it has worked for you for so long.Had it ever stopped working, and I will admit that Pfizer's reformulation was a bit of a trying time for many of us, I would be dead.
> > > How much weight have you gained?
> > Since I began taking Nardil in 1978, I would say that I have gained 50 pounds in the last 26 years. Nardil causes "carbohydrate starvation." It's a side-effect of course and it will cause you to gain some weight -- if you have to take it long enough that is.
> Wish there were some way to block that one side effect. Why does Nardil cause this more than other meds I wonder (or maybe it's in line with the sedating TCAs)?Perhaps, but it most assuredly causes the "carbohydrate starvation" I mentioned earlier. It's very hard to resist. Hence, most people end up having to work out much harder just to keep this under control and they still gain some weight.
> > > Have any of you been on this for several years?
> >
> > I have been taking 37.5 mg of Nardil for 26 years. I should have begun taking in 7 years sooner though. I found myself in a serious bind. My Psychiatrist in the mid 1970s did not know what else to prescribe for me, so I went back to college and in the process of earning my BA in Psychology -- of all subjects -- I finally ran across a fairly good discussion of the way it is believed the human nervous system works. Once I saw that I could tell my Psychiatrist that we had to try to inhibit either Catetchol O - Methyl Transferase or Mono Amine Oxidase. In theory, inhibiting either one should increase the concentrations of neurotransmitters at synaptic sites.
> Wow, that is quite a story. Good for you for being so on top of things even way back then when so much less was known about antidepressants.When you know your life hangs in the balance, you would not believe what you can drive yourself to do. I had no real interest in Psychology at all, and considered the program I went through at the University of Missouri to be weak. The Natural Sciences fascinate and mathematics fascinate me much more than other subjects, and they always have.
> > I know of no medication that works on COMT, but I do know several that work on MAO. I selected Nardil because one can combine it with other medications -- if necessary. Hence, I was able to save my life.
> >
> > > Have you compared the new Nardil to the old, original Nardil?
> >
>
> > I sure have. My experience is unique, but I take exactly 37.5 mg of "new" Nardil the same that I used to take of "old" Nardil. This is probably true for most people, but I do know people who do not respond well if at all to "new" Nardil anymore. As a result I made a elixir I call Liquid Nardil, which works extremely well, but it's expensive. Still, it does what Pfizer's "new" Nardil will not do in some people.> > Understand, "new" Nardil is generic Nardil. That is all that is made anywhere in the world these days including England where Link UK makes a generic Nardil and Australia where Link AUS makes generic Nardil, but also puts the old orange Sucrose coating on it -- which makes it appear to be "old" Nardil, but it's not.
> So even if the stuff from the UK is not the original Nardil, could it also be that it is just a better generic than what we have in the U.S.?No. I can tell you the excipients of all of the known forms of Nardil made today, including "old" Nardil. You have to understand that the excipients of any medication actually determine how the active ingredient, in this case Phenelzine Sulfate is metabolized. If your body does not metabolize it, and I know some people for whom this is indeed the case, you have to make some hard choices to make.
>Or do you think that the difference in people's responses is more psychological because they think they're getting the "old Nardil"
No, I do not think it's psychological at all, especially if one has an established history of this medication being efficacious. If it does not work for one, that's a completely different story.
> So what is it exactly that you do to the Nardil you buy to make it liquid and why is it better?
I make an elixir and I do not do a thing to any one else's Nardil. There's not enough Phenelzine Sulfate in those tablet to make my elixir. 15 mg is not very much. I start from scratch and make my own. That was the point of this exercise - to come up with a functional equivalent for "old" Nardil for people for whom "new" Nardil does not work. Of course I was the first Clinical trial. This is not FDA approved and is much less efficient than any Nardil tablet, but I have save at least one person's life with it. Otherwise, it was suicide for him (a fate several of his relatives have suffered.)
It is very simple. The expense is purchasing 10 grams of Phenelzine Sulfate or Phenelzine HCL to make your first liter. I do not synthesize these myself, or it might be much cheaper. But the idea is that others can do this for themselves with my assistance via e-mail -- if necessary. It bypasses the entire American Medical Establishment. That means, no more Pharmaceutical companies; no more Psychiatrists; no more prescriptions, and no more Pharmacies. You will need a very good chemical company though and some simple equipment. I have half a mind to do this to several other medications just to demonstrate the power of the technique. Problem is I do not take them. I could not in good conscience offer something I had not made and taken myself.
> Have you never wanted to try anything else in
all of these years?Only because of the side-effects. To that end I found the best Psychiatrist I could find in Dr. John P. Feighner, formerly the head of Feighner Research Institute in San Diego, CA. Now he is on the Board of Directors of Innapharma, Inc. and only sees select patients. He's cashing in after a long an distinguished career. I do not blame him one bit as he has been in the trenches fighting the worse forms of these illnesses for most of his adult life.
We tried everything reasonable and several unreasonable treatment alternatives in 1984 through 1985. In fact, I pushed the field of Psychiatry as far as it goes and had Stereotatic limbic leucotomy based upon his recommendation. It actually helped some and forced me to reduce the amount of Nardil I must take from 45 mg to 37.5 mg. When those lesions kicked in I had no choice but to cut back or I would be up all night. Hence, I did exactly that, but my goal was eliminate the need for the medication entirely. I now believe that once must actually alter genes in order to achieve this end. That or perhaps use fetal stem cells to replace damaged neurons or receptors of neurons.
>Actually, it's probably wise that you didn't. You read so many posts here of people going off of a medication but they can never get that original good response back again when they restart on it.
I just never have had that problem with Nardil. If I stop taking it, when I resume it works just exactly the same for me.
> > >(Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm having trouble deciding what medication to try next and I have to make a decision quickly.)
> >
> > No problem at all Kara. Interesting survey though.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Thanks for taking the time to fill out my "survey".
>
> K
poster:Spotcheck
thread:431382
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041217/msgs/431891.html