Posted by Spotcheck on April 15, 2004, at 14:17:38
In reply to Re: COMPAINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by SuzyQ1 on April 15, 2004, at 11:27:47
Hello Suzy,
"I have increased my dose of Nardil from 30 mg. to 45, and after 4 days, am starting to feel a little better, but still very apprehensive."
I really hope this helps you. I do not know too many people who are pleased by Pfizer's reformulated Nardil. She really did change it allot and she doesn't seem to care too much that it's not as good a medication as it once was. I mean one does not go from having 15 excipients to only having 9 keeping 3 the same, and then have the same medication. It has to be different and guess what? It really is different too. However, it does seem to work allot better than nothing, although some people who once thrived taking the old are in serious trouble taking the new because it does not seem to work for them at all.
The problem is we are going to have one heck of
hard time convincing Pfizer to change this back.
She started having production problems with the old Nardil last year or so. As a result, she let out sub-potent Nardil, and of course, people who took that began to relapse. Finally, she filed an SNDA with the FDA and made the new Nardil. Under an SNDA one has to conduct limited clinical trials, but that's about it. So, since she has done nothing illegal, it's going to be really hard to get her to make a medication she was having trouble making before. In fact, I cannot see what would force her to do this, since she apparently incapable of making the old Nardil properly anymore herself. I genuinely fear that we are stuck with this version of Nardil, period, and that is what really bothers me."I also take Ativan with it, to calm down the dystonic side effects of Nardil. For me, it was tight throat muscles that made me feel like I had a lump in my throat. The Ativan takes care of that. I have no doubt that the new Nardil doesn't work as well as the old one, since my blood pressure suddenly shot up about 4 months ago."
Yes, my BP is also up -- although not dangerously high yet, and a woman who was just beginning to try Link UK's Nardil was pulled off it because her blood pressure increased. It used to work precisely the oppositely, however. One's blood pressure actually dropped. Mine sure did.
"Nardil was apparently lowering my blood pressure, as a side effect, and that was a positive for me."
Yes, it was that way in me too, but it was not a positive. Mine was too low so I had real problems not getting light headed and having to quickly get my head lower. Still, I would trade that small problem for the old Nardil in a heartbeat!
"My doctor couldn't understand why my pressure for the first time was elevated, and gave me water pills. I could have had a stroke on the new Nardil, since it was no longer as effective. On 3 pills/day, my pressure has started going back down. This is besides the terrible anxiety I got again, and the depression and crying that followed. I don't know how well the 3 pills/day will hold me, but I'm praying very hard. In the meantime, I called Pfizer and raised some hell about it. They seemed to take notes. I talked to a pharmacist as well as a Nardil specialist."
I've done that too, but you will not really get anywhere talking to them. I called when I went through that complete urinary retention ordeal, and I really angry about that. They seem like very nice enough people, but so-far they have done nothing to change it back, if they even can, that is. I need to know exactly why manufacturing the old Nardil because such a problem for them.
That's what really needs to be figured out, I suspect."I told them that I might just be one small voice, but this could be a warning of things to come, as I'm not the only one having such a negative reaction to the new Nardil. I also made them aware that there have already been some suicides, hospitalizations, and lives totally disrupted in the 5 short months since their "new Nardil" came out. They said it was a shelf-life problem they were having with the old Nardil that made them change the inactive products, but she also admitted that there have been a lot of calls and that they're aware of the fact that this batch of Nardil is not as effective as the previous one; and that they'd be looking into it."
Here's what bothers me about their shelf-life claim. I have some old Nardil left still. I used to buy some extra so that I would always have it on hand. Well, I have a bottle that was dispensed to me by a small pharmacist dating from the year 2000 that works just fine still. So, 4 years seems like an adequate shelf life to me.
Unless Parke-Davis, the Division of Pfizer that makes Nardil, lost the ability to purchase one or more of the excipients for the old Nardil, then I honestly do not understand why they were having production problems with it at all. I need to know what was going wrong.
"I told them it would be for their own good, or they might be facing a class-action suit. As for the Selegiline patch I mentioned before, I hope it comes out soon. It replaces all three major neurotransmitters in the brain: Serotonin, Norepinephrine, and DOPAMINE, the last one being very important for calm and a feeling of well being, and which no other medication alone does."
That's only reason I do take Nardil. It used to work really well increasing DA monoamine levels.
"You'd have to take a combination of two meds., like for example Effexor and Wellbutrin to replace all three."
I might just have to give that combination a shot and recommend it to others -- if it works out well enough for me. Thanks for that piece of information Suzanne. I post under the name David F. H. at the anxiety forum will cite in your link.
"As for the GABA, if the Selegiline skin patch doesn't supplement the GABA, then a Benzodiazepine like Xanax, Ativan, or Klonopin can do that, when taken with the patch."
I already have to take some Valium with Nardil along with some Amitriptyline to treat my case of "atypical depression." I do not know if 30 mg/day of Valium is enough Diazepam to increase my GABA levels enough or at all.
"You can also go to the link listed below where I posted the same information, and also read about others who are having a negative reaction to the "new Nardil":"Thanks Suzanne. I know that forum well. I am seriously considering hanging it up because of a very recent experience I had attempting to help a woman in Scotland. When her blood pressure increased while taking Link UK's Nardil, she got right off it and was really angry at me for recommending it. So now she's on the merry go round of trying other medications. I with here well. The kicker is that I bet the old Nardil would have really helped her out allot. I am just not going to fight with someone who refuses to take a medication that might help her. It's too much aggravation for me anymore.
poster:Spotcheck
thread:283363
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040412/msgs/336653.html